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Kell-Chat
An Ongoing International Conversation
between Callaway and Kellaway and Kelway family researchers
discussing family origin, history and genealogy research in England
2006
(this file is VERY large and can be slow to load)

Primary Participants -

Warwick Kellaway Hamilton, New Zealand jwk at slingshot.co.nz
Bruce Callaway Sydney, New South Wales bruce at callaway.com.au
Bill Callaway British Columbia callawaybill at shaw.ca
Sherrill Williams Unicoi, Tennessee sherrilluwilliams at embarqmail.com
Pat Schnurr Maitland, Florida schnurr200 at aol.com
Cary Moore Birmingham, Alabama c.moore2 at juno.com
Bill Piper Kent, U.K. bill at dreycott.screaming.net
Brian Willoughby Gloucestershire, U.K. bhk.willoughby at btopenworld.com
Pat & David Scott Swindon, Wiltshire, England kellaway at kellread.plus.com
David Kelway Royston, Hwerts, U.K. chanticleer at breathemail.net
Lesley Haigh UK les.haigh at btinternet.com
Norma Kellaway Australia normakell at iprimus.com.au
Don Kellaway Canada quinte at kos.net
Sylvia Warham UK sylvia at pattilandfarm.com
Paul Doye UK pauldoye at btinternet.com

From: Sherrill Williams
Sent: Jan 13, 2006
Subject: Sherborne

Hello Friends,
I know that some of you may be away from home, especially the "down-unders," But, I have bumped into a piece of strange information that provides a new "twist" about which I need your comments. I am working on the story of Sherborne Abbey/All Hallows, the Fire,
and the new Almshouse, using a number of references we picked up in England. One reference, "Med. Sherborne" by Fowler, is quite good, but he referred frequently to "A Historic Guide to the Almshouse of St John Baptist and St John the Evangelist - Sherborne" by Charles Herbert Mayo. I felt a strong need to see this booklet, but it is a long and expensive trip to England. I did the next best thing, and "googled" up a copy for sale in a second-hand bookstore in Dorchester, ordered it and sat back for the "long wait." The booklet was in my mailbox in less than a week!
Mayo went into more detail of the documents regarding the Almshouse. He noted that the parishioners (town's people of Sherborne) were asked to contribute to a fund for building the almshouse, and quotes from the Account of Richard Rochell, 1437/8, which had a list of the subscribers to the new Almshouse "which is practically a directory of the inhabitants of Sherborne at that time." The contributors were listed according to the street or the area where they lived. I will give you the additional names of interest a bit later.
GRENE [street?]:
John Kaylewaye xx s.
Henry Clerke xx d.
Robert Kayll (Cnyll) xx d.
Thomas Kayll xx d.
John Clerk, junr. xij d.
RICHARD CAYLEWAYE (KAYLEWAYE) xij d.
John Dawe xij d.
and 32 others of current non-interest.

I will add that William Kaylewaye, who has been the subject of a lot of our earlier discussion, was not on this list of contributors. He contributed services (for which he was reimbursed according to the accounts). But, who is RICHARD, and how would he fit into this family? C. H. Mayo also wrote the "Abbey Church Official Guide." Now I feel compelled to track down a copy of that which is said to have "documentary treasures."
Sherrill

From: Warwick Kellaway
Sent: Jan 14, 2006
Subject: Sherborne

Hello Sherrill
I have now had a closer look at what you have uncovered at Sherborne.

Richard, it appears, is another brother/cousin, who until now has been unrecorded. There must be more, and they would, if we could place them, go some way to explaining the "missing generation", and other unresolved parentage, such as Nicholas of Forston/Charminster, who seems to hold a strong position with later descendants - we only have him because of his 1594 will. (If Richard was a younger brother of John, any descendants 100 years later could be 4 generations removed.)

I do note that, in Grene Street, or in the 30-40 houses around the Village Green, John made the major contribution of 20 shillings - the others 20 pence - or those including Richard, only 12 pence. Richard was, by comparison, a lesser person in the village. We note also that there were two Kaylls, and two Clerks. The Kaylls appear again over 100 years later, so presumably had been much earlier family "breakaways", or no relations at all. (Could they, by merging names later, explain some of the differing DNA in Dorset?) If there were Clerks there then, that name would also appear to be older than supposed. Being presumably more common as an occupational derivative, the later Clarke alias family might have been the same, or could have occurred later independently. (I had suspected one of our C/Ks had been a "clerk".)

As to why William is not there is unclear. He might at that time have had a junior position in John's household, or more likely was living elsewhere. (John de Kayleways was still patron of St Giles at the Wiltshire family manor until 1429.) Or possibly William was living at the Chenstone family manor at Chawleigh Devon. Edmund had earlier left the Wiltshire manor around 1391-99 for Chenstone, possibly after a dispute with Margaret de Courtenay, and was patron of Cheldon Rectory. The dispute had included Thomas, presumably Edmund's son and noted later for his marriage to Joanne Bingham, and who was patron of the church at Sutton Bingham, just south of Yeovil, between about 1410-22. My information, from IPMs, was that there were three Johns, probably grandfather, father and son, born about 1375, 1410 and 1448. The eldest perhaps a younger son of Edmund, and Thomas's brother. John seems to have inherited the family property, possibly because Thomas left no family, but the third John also apparently had no descendants. John was patron of Cheldon in 1440, and about that time began involvement with William over property. Although the bearer of a common family name, John may actually have been living at Ardyngton Berkshire in 1441.

William's father was recorded in his will as John, so he could have been the younger brother of the second John, whom we know was living in Sherborne around 1436-8 (when he helped burn the Abbey - was the Almshouse part of his penance?). If the third John died young, William would, by 1469, have been the senior member of the family. He had married Joanna Barrett some 30 years before, and could add the Bingham inheritance to the property he acquired by marriage (possibly after his death?). By the mid-1500s, the Heraldic Pedigrees were vague about William, gave his descendants, but never suggested his parentage. If he had been a younger son, and his son and grandson were those who achieved the importance, and knighthoods, that could be part of the reason. (He might not have held sufficient appropriate property when he died to warrant an IPM.)
How's that?
Warwick

From: Sherrill Williams
Sent: Jan 15, 2006
Subject: Sherborne

But, Warwick, William Kaylway was living at Sherborne in 1437/38. Recall, he was busy riding his horse (with his servant)to visit Humphrey Stafford and Margaret Gough - having to do with the charter for the almshouse. He was compensated for his expenses in the
almshouse accounts of Richard Rochelle. I thought perhaps he was exempted from the solicitation of funds because of his contribution of "services." "Grene" [street] is located approx. 500 yds. NE of the entrance to the Abbey (which is off Chepe street. The Cammels were also involved here. One Cammel was a trustee of the almshouse, as was one named "Cammle als Grene."
I have been working on John Baret, trying to establish his age. I cannot find reference to a will for him, but he seems to be contemporary with William Kaylway (1469). That is why it seems odd to me that William K.(1469) would have married the "granddaughter" of said John Baret. I cannot find a will for John Baret, or a good visitation pedigree. If anyone has such a pedigree, please share it. What was the name of the wife of John Baret? We do not know how many times our William (1469) was married, but I am now totally convinced that one wife was Joan, the widow of Roger Ledred. Her surname is not known. In his will, William (1469) bequeathed an item ["silver cup"?] that had belonged to Joan, mother of his wife Joan. So, which wife of William Kaylway had a mother also named Joan?
Oh well, this is a good story, even if the pieces of the puzzle are difficult to fit together. Maybe someday!
Sherrill

From: Warwick Kellaway
Sent: Jan 15, 2006
Subject: Sherborne

Well done Sherrill
Your evidence has gone much deeper than my old information.
I wonder how large Sherborne was in 1436, and whether Grene "Street" might have been just about all of it. The Abbey would have attracted villagers for trade and business, so there must have been more. Was William perhaps living elsewhere in the town - did others not contribute? The sudden importance of an Almshouse also makes me think there was a connection with the fire, and maybe William was not involved - John was. As you say however, perhaps his services were included in other ways.

Regarding the Barretts, we would be lucky to find a will - an IPM perhaps. I have John Barrett owning the later family properties at Bapton and Tisbury in 1413. Joan Barrett's father was Henry, but there is a good possibility that she had an uncle John, perhaps the eldest son. The bland reference to 1413 might suggest the grandfather died about then. We cannot be sure, but my calculations had always indicated that William had been born around 1400-10, and married Joan perhaps about 1430-5. He could have been contemporary with her uncle.

I know you distrust the Pedigrees, but they have been a good starting point, and give William and Joan's family as Thomas, Moris, and John. His second wife as a Stantner of Hornysham (no first name), and that by her he had three sons, William, Peter and a second Thomas. My guess would still be about 1440. Moris and Peter have disappeared from the files, but William became Sir William in 1501, while the Thomases continued the family name confusion, and apparent missing generation. (The Thomas we have reasonably well recorded was born in 1470, creating a 30 year break - the 1546 Robert of Lillington and William of Stalbridge referred to by Lesley were the sons of Thomas.)

It is possible that William's second wife was named Joan - a very popular use. And she could possibly have been the wife of Roger Ledred.

The puzzle is fitting together. I know it is very much clearer than when I began. And even little bits continue to clarify our concerns. If only they had BDMs in 1400!
Warwick

From: Bill Piper
Sent: Jan 16, 2006
Subject: Sherborne

I asked Martin King, who lives down that way, and his reply was:

There is a street in Sherborne called "Greenhill", and one of the school houses is called "The Green". Before the school took it over it used to be an old coaching inn, I believe, and is positioned at the top of the town where there might, in days past, have been a 'green'. If there ever was one it has long since gone.
Bill

From: Sherrill Williams
Sent: Jan 17, 2006
Subject: Sherborne

I read on in Canon Mayo's little booklet and discovered that our William K. of Sherborne, involved with the Almshouse, had a wife named ISABEL. Details shortly. How about that?
Sherrill

From: Sherrill Williams
Sent: Jan 17, 2006
Subject: Sherborne


Hi All,
Canon Mayo translated the Deed to the Almshouse, apparently in its entirety. It was more than a deed because it included the rules by which the "inmates" were to live. Their religious practices were detailed at great length. And, they were required to pray for the souls of the Founders and the 20 Brothers ["directors"] and their families, and so that everyone got to be prayed for, many names were mentioned. Mayo translated this document into Old Style English, but for the convenience of typing I may modernize it a bit. Follows is the section on the "praying for" -

Allso that every of the saide sixtyne pore..men and wymmen and every of their successors for evermore shall dayly by there power hear one messe and in the worship of god of the seyntes of seynt John Baptist and seynt John Evangelist and for the sane estate of the said King Herry the sixt and for the sane estate of me the said Bysshop my mooder brethers sisters ancestors kynne and successors and for the good and sane estate of me the said Humfray [Stafford] and childryn and of John my brother nowe by the grace of god Bysshop of Bathe and Chaunceller of Yngelond and of al myne auncestors and kynne and of me the said Margarete [Gough]and of all my kynne and of us the said John Fauntleroy and John Baret of oure wyfes childryn and kyne and of William Kayleway of Shirbourne afore saide and for the good estate of the said twenty brethers and of their successors of their wyfes childryn and kyne and for the goode estate of all those that geveth byquethe speketh or doeth or hath geve byquethe spoken or do eny goode to the saide house whyles we all and thay shal leve yn this present worle and for the saide Kyng his soule and for all his progenytours and for myne the saide Bysshop of Salesbury my moder brethers sisters auncestors kynne and successours soules and for myne the saide Humfray childryn and brother and kynne his soules and for myne the said Margarete and all my kynne his soules and for oures the said John Fauntleroy and John Baret and all oure wifes childryn brethers and kynne soules. And for the saide William Kaylway and al his kynne is soules the whiche William hath be most special laborer to gete the saide letters patentes of oure soverayn lorde the Kyng and also of makying of this present fundacion and for the twenty saide brethers and their successors wyfs childryn and kynne is soules and for all the saide good doers soules to the saide house when they and we shall passe oute of this present worlde. And for the soules of Elizabeth sum tyme the wife of Humfray [Stafford] some tyme the fader and Alice sum tyme the moder of the said Humfray Stafford and for the soules of the husond fader and moder that sum tym was the saide Margarete Gogh is and for the soules of John Campedene sum tyme vicar of the said towne of Shirbourne also for the soules of Richard Fyton Henry Panter Symond Chamberleyn Thomas Peytevyn Elizabeth Climyng (or Clunyng) Nicol Rake and of their wyfes husbond childryn brethers and kynne and for the soule of ISABELLE that sum tyme was the wyfe of the saide William Kayleway and for all Christen soules........[and goes on to name some other saints they should put in a good word for]. [This deed was dated the "tenthe day of the monthe of Januarye in the yere of the regnyng of the saide Kyng Herry the sixte after the conquest the sixtynthe." Those witnessing were Bysshop of Salesbury Humfray Stafford Margarete Gogh John Fauntleroy and John Baret, plus William Bradeford Abbot of Shirbourne John Chidioke knyght Thomas Beauchamp knyght Thomas Stowell knyght William Stafford squyer William Carent squyer William Brownyng squyer Richard Strode squyer John Hody Thomas Knoyell Thomas Gilden [Gulden?] William Leweston and other.

So, now we must look for an ISABELLE in the families associated with this Kayleway family. I was amazed that I was reading through all that "stuff" - and astonished when I read the name of William K's "sum tyme wyfe." We also need to figure out if "sum tyme" meant that Isabelle was deceased. I may be able to figure that out from Humphry Stafford's "sum tyme wyfe" - she was Elizabeth Maltrauvers, and I believe her dates are on the Stafford pedigree. So have fun with this.
Sherrill

From: Warwick Kellaway
Sent: Jan 17, 2006
Subject: Sherborne

Intriguing Sherrill.
Have we found Isabel Stantner, or another? Could our original information have been wrong - how accurate was Canon Mayo? Presumably
he had access to the original documents we seek.
We await the next episode.
Warwick

From: Sherrill Williams
Sent: Jan 17, 2006
Subject: Sherborne

Warwick, I think Canon Mayo was very accurate. He is considered the authority on these matters. I have actually looked at many of the documents. Notice I said "looked." They are all in Latin in the OS handwriting. Fowler in "Med. Sherborne" quoted him often, but his quotes were often out of context. Having the Mayo translations is invaluable.
Sherrill

From: Brian Kelway Willoughby
Sent: Jan 18, 2006
Subject: Sherborne

Hi Friends,
As it happens, when I had a chance some time ago to study the worthy Canon Mayo's 1926 paper on
the Sherborne Almshouse I made a number of notes.

As these already exist in in keyed form I am attaching a copy of my fhrlog Journal of 18 thro 20 July 2000, just in case they might be useful to somebody (with apologies for their scrappy nature).

I have had a look in my records for Isabel(le) - and sure enough the wife/widow of William Kayleway has a contemporary namesake - in Isabel Calowe of Worcestershire who in 1462 appears to have been both the wife of John Calowe and the widow of Henry Calowe (Ref Selden Society Vol 114 p112). Perhaps she was doing a Catherine of Aragon?!
All the best,
Brian

Extract from Journal of B H K Willoughby (fhrlog13.wps) 

Tue       18/07/00                        Pro-forma PC from Chelt Lib - A Historic Guide to Almshouse ...... Sherborne by C H Mayo has arrived                                      (requested on 10/05/00) - collected.   No index but a number of references/quotes about John Keylewey and William                                             Keyleway (and a few to John Kaylle - clearly a different person)   

            The "Old Almshouse" was set up by a Latin deed dated Thursday in the Feast of St Andrew the Apostle,  7 Hen V (1419).   This records the dedication to the Almshouse of (the rents of ) a messuage and  meadow called Subtrow with appurtenances in Beere Haket Dorset,  etc,  etc.   The 24 or so feoffees include John Keylewey (p4).

            The New (Present) Almshouse received its Charter on 10th Jan 16 Hen VI (1437-8) (p3).   The list of subscribers (some 146,  by street) ... "practically a directory of the inhabitants of Sherborne at that time"  includes.  

                                    Under "Grene:  John Kaylewaye xx s." (£1,  p13).  

                                    Under "Newlond:  Richard Caylewaye xij d. " (£0.05,  p14).  

The largest payments were one of c s. (£5,  by John Barett),  one of xl s. (£2,  by Henry Mulling),  and eighteen of xx s. (£1,  incl John Kaylewaye).   The subscriptions raised totalled £41  13s  10d. (An average of v s.  vij d. across the 146 contributors.)

            The Accompts for year ending Michaelmas 16 Hen VI (1437-8) list the income from various rents (Total £5  7s  8d).   Payments include miscellaneous expenses viz paid to John Keylewey for expenses of the same House this year £1 (p11).  

            Disbursements for the year 1438-9 include (p17): 

                                    "... the expenses of three men and horses riding to Raymsbury

                                    (chief manor of the Bishop of Sarum) for obtaining the foundation of the same house  ... ...         ...         vij s.  v d.

                                                And in two horses hired for William Keyleway and his                               servant,  riding to Hoke,  near Beaminster,  and thence to                                       Margaret Goof (Goff,  Gough)      ...         ...         ...     xij d.

                                                And in expenses of the same at that time            ...      vi d.

                                                And in money (denarijs) paid to the same William for his labour at that time      ...         ...         ...         ...         vj s.  viij d.

            The Foundation Deed (30 numbered paras pp1-33) ... Robert Neuyle Bishop of Salesbury ... Humfray Stafford of Hoke Knyght ... Margaret Gogh of Berwyke wedowe ... John Fauntleroy of Alfeston ... John Baret of Shirbourne ... geuen gretyng vnto god (p19).   Licence dated 11 July 15 Hen VI (1437) established 20 brethren as Governors,  one being Master (with 12 men and 4 women,  all poor and feeble,  as beneficiaries) (p19).   List of twenty brethers includes John Kayleway (p20).  

            Para 26 (p29) of the Deed refers to the messe (Mass) to be said daily for " the Bishop and his kin,  Humfray ... ,  John now Bysshop of Bathe and Chauncellor of Yngelond,  Margaret ... ,  John Fauntleroy ... ,  John Baret ... ,  and of William (sic) Kayleway of Shirbourne afore saide and fore the goode estate of the saide twenty brethers ... [no other names mentioned at this point].   Later in same para there is special mention  " And for the saide William Kaylway and al his kynne is soules the whiche William hath be most special laborer to gete the saide letters patentes ... ".   [A footnote on p50 ... " and Wm. Kayleway is cited as a ' more special  laborer ' to get the King's letters patent,  and also for making the present foundation (para 26).]   And later still " ... for the soule of Isabelle that sum tyme was the wyfe of the saide William Kayleway ... " (p30). 

            " In an extant deed dated ... 18 Oct 32 Hen VI (1453),  John Keyleway ... are seen possessed of ... " various messuages (p53).

            The Principal and Original Donors are listed (p55-6) and the more important are described.   John Keylway is one of the twenty persons who (jointly with their wives) gave v li. each (p55).

            Some Later Benefactors (p67) include John Horsey,  Knt. (grandson of the Abbey grantee),  by Will dated 9 Apr 1589,  bequeathed ... Master and Brethren ... £10 per annum.

            Old Stained Glass (p71) mentions old glass now remounted in St Katherine's Chapel of the Abbey.

            The Chancery Suit (p75) involved a Commission issued 15 June 43 Eliz. (1601) to Sir Walter Raleigh Knt. (of Sherborne),  Sir Raufe Horsey Knt.(of Clifton Maubank) et al.   (See 02/09/00 for p/copying.) 

Wed     19/07/00                        Started to extract/log inf from ... Almshouse ...  Sherborne into this file,  at least pro tem.  

Thu       20/07/00                        Completed (?) extract/log the Sherborne Almshouse material.   Referred to Wills - William Kayleway of Sherborne,  dated & proved 1469 PCC (fhtrsc10.wps p6) looks v relevant.   He was son of John of Sherborne,  husband of Joan (dead),  father of William,  grandfather of John, William,  Agnes and Alice.   Evidently wealthy,  left money to Church,  Almshouse etc,  etc.    

(E. and O.E.) 
B H K Willoughby
Cheltenham
Extract made 18 January 2006

From: Sherrill Williams
Sent: Jan 20, 2006
Subject: Sherborne

Warwick,
Thanks for the "Dorset extras." I will check them against my collection and work in the new references. Mayo's "Guide to the Almshouse" was actually rather cheap, as these things go. The total cost, including Air Mail, was $22.00 US. The booklet was published in 1933, so you know it is "fairly old." Mayo produced a "Guide to the Abbey - Sherborne" a few years earlier. I am going to try to find one of those. Since he gave us RICHARD in the Almshouse guide, which "shocked" me,perhaps the Abbey guide will provide additional "shocks." I would really like to know just where in the church the C/K arms were originally displayed. That is too much to hope for, I am certain. In re-looking the documents that seem to pertain to this C/K family at Sherborne, I am gradually concluding that the records are suggesting three John Kellaways lived  there. The John C/K involved with Dodill's Almshouse in the 14-teens  is probably the father of William (1469). It also seems that father John also had a son named John (brother of William 1469)who died a few years before our William died. The Inq.p.m. for him (John) named his heir as another John, aged 19. Unfortunately we have not found an Inq pm for William (1469) which would be extremely helpful in sorting this out. William (1469) in his will named his son William (apparently his "heir"; were there other sons?). And son William had, in 1469, sons William and John. We then apparently have a gap of a generation or two before we get to the 1525 tax assessments. Looking for the "William of Stalbridge" connection.
When I put together what we have on this family I will send you a copy before submitting it for publication in the Journal.
Sherrill

From: Brian Kelway Willoughby
Sent: Jan 22, 2006
Subject: Sherborne Cartulary - Fowler's Mediaeval Sherborne

Hi Friends, 

Sorry - no can do the Sherborne Cartulary (in spite of the flattery!) (And my Latin is pretty rudimentary (last used seriously in 1941) -
but if push comes to shove I can consult a more learned colleague.)
 
However - an observation,  just in case this might be helpful :-  
Is it safe to assume that we have all had access to Mediaeval Sherborne, by Joseph Fowler (Dorset Editor of Somerset and Dorset Notes and
Queries),  Published by Longmans of Dorchester in 1951?
 
I mention it because,  in a Note on the Frontispiece about his sources, Fowler includes "... matter,  much of which has not hitherto been printed, 
from the Sherborne Cartulary,  and from other Sherborne Manuscripts in the British Museum and elsewhere,  as well as from printed books."
 
This book,  of 400-odd pages,  is very readable.   Its excellent Index lists seven references to Keyleway/Keylewey individuals (John(s), William(s), and,  by implication,  Robert).  Their dates span 1419 - 1437.
 
I have also noticed (p244) an unindexed John Keyleway,  who in 1446 describes himself,  with  Richard Rochelle,  as " ... Masters of the
Brothers and Sisters of the Guild of the Almshouse", 
All the best, 
Brian

From: Brian Kelway Willoughby
Sent: Jan 23, 2006
Subject: Fowler's Mediaeval Sherborne - Guild of the Almshouse

Hi Bruce, 
Herewith,  in case it's useful,  the text of Fowler's unindexed Ref :-
 
p244 - last para
 
        As early as 1443-4 a "Fraternity of the House" existed,  undoubtedly a religious Guild.  William Morrys,  of Compton,  gave £6 15s. 4d. that year,  John Grennyng of Wootton gave £5  6s. 8d.,  and Th. Carter of Knighton gave £2  13s. 4d., to be admitted to the Fraternity.   And in the heading of their Account for 1446-7 - soon after the chapel had been consecrated - Richard Rochelle and John Keyleway, speak of themselves as "Masters of the Brothers and Sisters of the Guild of the Almshouse,  Shirborne". *  The existence of this Guild,  and its inclusion of members,
both men and women,  living often at a considerable distance from Sherborne,  has perhaps not been hitherto recognised ;  yet,  almost,  if not quite from the first,  it formed part,  the deepest part,  of the life of the Institution,  and went on into the early years of the Reformation :  and it centred in the Chapel altar. 
 
*   [Magistri Fratrum et Sororum Gulde domus Elemosinarum,  Shirborn]
 
p245 - opening sentence
 
        Thus,  in 1476-7,  John Branche and Margaret his wife give £5  "to be admitted as participators in the prayers of the Brotherhood of the Almshouse.
 
(I made photocopies of some 30 or so pages of interest when I had the opportunity) 
All the best 
Brian

From: Bruce Callaway
Sent: Jan 24, 2006
Subject: Fowler's Mediaeval Sherborne - Guild of the Almshouse

Thanks so much Brian. Examination of the Family and their activities around Sherborne is a tad on the backburner at the moment as Sherrill beavers away on her definitive article for the CFA Journal. We have a lot of loose ends which need pulling to-gether. 

I am still convinced that our mob purloined the Sherborne Missal, and that the largesse exhibited in Wills, labor and other contributions to the Abbey (which one of our ancestors helped to burn down) needs more examination! 

I was merely drawing attention to the facts surrounding our examination of the significance of family relationships as exhibited by our as yet uncompleted examination of extant stained glass. I am aware of Warwick's theory that we inherited the glaziers nippers at about this time, but (sorry Warwick) this is a bit wishy washy. However, the Sherbourne crowd and the Rockbourners were tied into the Cammels, Courteneys etc. 
Bruce

From: Bruce Callaway
Sent: Jan 26, 2006
Subject: Lauriston and the 1640 Peter

Hi All,

The name LAURISTON appears prominently in a number of branches of the Kellaway family to this day. Sheila Yates,  has kindly provided an explanation and one of the earliest photos of the line, that of Thomas and Esther Kellaway 1790-1868.

 
Thomas and his brother John were the sons of George Kellaway 1760-1815 of Walworth, London married to Sarah Sargent. A prominent builder around the Elephant and Castle in London, George was buried in All Saints Church Dorchester, Dorset. He was the GGGrandfather of Cecil Kellaway the famous actor, a few more greats on the Grandfather of Sheila and other members of the CFA including possibly, some of the 1640 Peter's descendants!
 
Lauriston Castle Edinburgh is an ancient Manor House built in 1540 overlooking the River Forth. It boasts its own Priest's hole and next door is Lauriston Farm (now a theme Restaurant)
 
Esther Kellaway's Mother was a Susannah LAURISTON. The name was first recorded in the 13th century, but by Esther's marriage on 28 June 1810 in St. Mary's Newington, Surrey to Thomas Kellaway, it entered the folklore of many generations of Kellaways.
Bruce

From: Bruce Callaway
Sent: Jan 23, 2006
Subject: Calla/oways of East Sussex


Thanks Paul for your info on your ancestors. I will spend some time on it and have forwarded the details to our other amateur researchers. I have an enormous amount of detail on my computer with a GOOGLE research facility which immediately  turned up the attached which you may like to comment upon. It would appear that your branch of our 'tribe' has been in East Sussex since the 16th century at least! We have another family also researching the C's in this area and I will have to look them out.
 
 I note that Walter (Your ?Great Uncle and motor racer) emigrated to the States prior to 1914. He may be somewhere in our archives and It may be that we will have to invite you into our funded project which short circuits the old 'paper trails'.
 
I note also that on 4th August 1799 in the Salehurst Parish, John, son of John and Hannah CHISMAN alias CALLOWAY was baptised. We have come across this alias business several times before and are in the process of working it out.
 
I find this hobby of genealogical research fascinating, and I do hope that you will join us in the research. More later I hope. 
Bruce

SUSSEX, ENGLAND PARISH REGISTERS

ALDINGBOURNE PARISH:

Thomas Callaway & Hannah Greenwood md. 20 April 1778
Sarah Calloway d/o Thomas & Hannah chr. 29 April 1781
Thomas Calloway s/o Thos. & Hannah chr. 13 Oct 1783
Edward Calloway s/o Thomas & Hannah chr. 15 May 1785
Zachariah Calloway s/o Thomas & Hannah chr. 29 Jan 1792
Thomas Calleway & Elizabeth Grant md. 22 July 1805
Sophia Calloway d/o Edward & Ann chr. 4 Aug 1822
William Callaway s/o Edward & Ann chr. 28 Aug 1825

ARLINGTON PARISH: [East Sussex]

Susan Calloway d/o William chr. 17 Nov 1633
Thomas Calloway s/o Will chr. 30 Nov 1634
John Calloway s/o Will. chr. 22 Aug 1641
Thomas Kelloway s/o Thomae & Joannae chr. 9 Nov 1662
Jana Calloway d/o Thomae & Janae chr. 12 June 1687
Maria Calloway d/o Thomae & Janae chr. 25 Aug 1689
Thomas Calloway s/o Thomae & Janae chr. 12 March 1691
[also given as son of Thomas & Mary - same date]
Joanna Calloway & Johannes Foot md. 28 Jan 1691
John Calloway s/o Thomae & Janae chr. 4 June 1694
Elizabeth Calloway d/o Thomae & Janae chr. 6 Sept 1696
Nicholaus Calloway s/o Thomae & Janae chr. 29 May 1698
Thomas Kelloway & Joannum Grey md. 9 Feb 1661

ARUNDEL PARISH:

Mary Ann Callaway & James Cooper md. 29 Aug 1836
Thomas Callaway s/o Thomas & Mary chr. 24 Aug 1738
Frederick Callaway & Anne Parker md. 27 Dec 1847
Charles Callaway s/o Frederic & Ann chr 30 April 1848
Frederic Callaway(?) Callaway s/o Frederic & Anne chr 29 July 1849
Fanny Callaway d/o Frederic & Anne chr 29 July 1849
Richard Callaway s/o Frederic & Ann chr. 27 Oct 1850
Annie Callaway d/o Frederick & Ann chr 25 April 1852
Jane Callaway d/o Frederick & ann chr. 26 Aug 1855
Hellen Callaway d/o Frederick & Ann chr. 26 Oct 1856
Henry Callaway s/o Frederick & Ann chr. 28 Feb 1858
Thomas Calloway & Ann Heward md. [no date]

BINSTED PARISH:

Thomas Calloway & Susan Shepherd md. 24 Dec 1727
Thomas Calloway & Mary White md. 29 Aug 1736

BIRDHAM PARISH:

Cutbert Callaway & Alice Busbye md. 17 Nov 1567
Thomas Callaway s/o [no parents named] chr. 24 Jan 1573

BODIAM PARISH: [East Sussex]

Mary Ann Callaway & Elijah Eldridge md. 19 Jan 1856

BRIGHTON ST STEPHEN PARISH:

Susan Callaway d/o James & Susan chr. 19 May 1871

CHALVINGTON PARISH: [East Sussex]

William Callaway s/o John & Mary chr. 2 Feb 1755

CHICHESTER ST ANDREW PARISH:

Richard Calloway s/o Thomas chr. 15 Nov 1614
Mary Callaway d/o Thomas chr. 23 Feb 1616
Thomas Calloway s/o Thomas chr. 22 Aug 1619
Thomas Calloway s/o Thomas chr. 1 May 1621
Jeremie Calloway s/o Tho: Calloway chr. 26 Oct 1623
Elizabeth Caloway d/o Thomas chr. 3 April 1626

CHICHESTER ST. PETER THE GREAT PARISH [or Subdeanery of Chichester]

John Calaway & Ann Pechy md. 21 Dec 1657

CHICHESTER - THE CLOSE:
Thomas Callaway s/o Thomas & Ann chr. 28 Aug 1695
CHICHESTER ST MARTIN PARISH:

Zachariah Callaway & Mary Barrow md. 25 Dec 1735

CHIDHAM PARISH:

Elizabeth Callaway d/o Edward & Ann chr. 6 April 1740
Ann Callaway d/o Edward & Ann chr 1 May 1741
Martha Callaway d/o Edward & Ann chr. 16 June 1745

CLIMPING PARISH:

Edward Calloway & Mary Holt md. 22 Oct 1752
Edwd. Calloway s/o Ed. & Mary chr. 2 Sept 1753

COMPTON PARISH:

Tho. Calloway & Ann Pacy md. 26 Dec 1704
Edward Callaway s/o Thomas & Anne chr 16 Dec 1705
Mary Calloway d/o Thomas & Ann chr. 28 March 1707
Ann Callaway d/o Tho. & Ann chr. 7 Oct 1708
Sarah Calloway d/o Tho. & Anne chr. 12 July 1711
Elizabeth Callaway & George Russell md. 20 Sept 1745

EAST GRINSTEAD PARISH: [East Sussex]

James Kellaway & Ann Ellis md. 27 April 1863

EWHURST PARISH: [East Sussex]

Margerie Calloway & Thomas Roper md. 7 Nov 1659

FELPHAM PARISH:

John Calaway & Margaret Richards md. 4 Nov 1634

FERRING PARISH:

George Callaway s/o Henry & Sarah chr. 10 March 1822
Ann Kelloway & George Streeter md. 1 Oct 1841
Sarah Ann Kelloway d/o George & Charlotte chr. 24 Oct 1847
Elizabeth Killaway & Charles Penfold md. 14 April 1849
George Kellaway s/o George & Charlotte chr. 25 Dec 1850
Harriet Kelloway d/o George & Charlotte chr. 20 April 1851
Ann Kelloway d/o George & Charlotte chr 19 June 1853
Lucy Kelloway d/o George & Charlotte chr. 11 Sept 1859
Emily Kelloway d/o George & Charlote chr. 10 Aug 1862

[NEW] FISHBOURNE PARISH:

John Callaway s/o John chr. 23 Nov 1615
Joan Callaway d/o John chr. 28 Jan 1623
James Calloway & Martha Hall md. 26 Dec 1704
Elizabeth Calloway d/o James & Martha chr. 2 Dec 1705

FITTLEWORTH PARISH:

Elizabeth Calloway & John Garrard md. 3 May 1698
Anne Calloway & George Figg md. 23 Dec 1735

GORING PARISH:

George Kellaway & Charlotte Saker md. 24 Dec 1845

LAUGHTON PARISH:

Samuel Calloway & Dorothy Goldsmith md. 16 Sept 1672
Richard Calliway & Ann Hilands md. 5 May 1800

HOVE ST ANDREW PARISH: [East Sussex]

Richard Robert Callaway & Harriet Whittingham md. 10 Feb 1863

LEWES PARISH: (ALL SAINTS?) [East Sussex]

John Callaway & Ann Mapelsden md. 7 April 1826
Rebecca Callaway & Richard Ockenden md. 20 Oct 1628

ST. JOHN SUB CASTRO PARISH, LEWES: [East Sussex]

William Callaway & Rebecca Swann md. 27 April 1612

LITTLEHAMPTON PARISH:

Annie Callaway & Henry Simpson md. 27 Dec 1873
Charles Callaway & Mary Street md. 10 May 1874

MIDDLETON BY BOGNER: [Middleton-on-Sea (near) Bogner Regis]

Elizabeth Calloway d/o John chr. 6 Sept 1635
Thomas Calloway s/o John chr. 23 Aug 1640

NEWHAVEN PARISH: [East Sussex]

Thomas Callaway s/o Christopher & Emmy chr. 13 Oct 1784
Susannah Calloway & Thomas Young md. 1 Aug 1799

OVING PARISH: [East Sussex]

Maria Kelleway & William Brewer md. 28 March 1525

PAGHAM PARISH:

Hannah Callaway & Richard Robinson md. 7 March 1803

PETWORTH PARISH:

Mary Kallaway d/o John chr. 1 Sept 1678
Charles Callaway s/o John chr. 5 June 1687
John Callaway s/o John chr. 9 March 1702
William Callaway s/o John chr. 3 March 1705
Elizabeth Callaway d/o John chr. 22 Aug 1707
Thomas Callaway s/o John chr. 20 Aug 1710
Mary Callaway d/o Jo. chr. 20 July 1718
Thomas Callaway s/o John & Mary chr. 17 Jan 1732
Willm. Caloway s/o John & Mary chr. 23 May 1736
Mary Calloway d/o John & Mary chr. 13 Nov 1737
John Callaway s/o John & Catherine chr. 3 March 1749
John Callaway s/o John & Catherine chr. 18 Dec 1751
Mary Calloway d/o John & Elizabeth chr. 29 July 1768
John Callaway s/o John & Elizabeth chr. 9 Jan 1775
Elizabeth Callaway d/o John & Elizth. chr 5 Oct 1777
Elizabeth Callaway & James Rogerson md. 2 June 1795

RACTON PARISH:

Elizabeth Callaway & William Moses md. 10 Oct 1756
Mary Callaway & Arthur Varndell md. 22 Oct 1772
Anne Callaway d/o James chr 17 Sept 1778
Mary Calloway d/o James & Ann chr. 13 Dec 1782
John Callaway s/o James & Ann chr. 29 June 1786

RIPE PARISH: [East Sussex]

William Calloway s/o Richard & Ann chr. 9 June 1811

ROGATE PARISH:

Ellen Callaway d/o George Augustus & Louisa chr. 30 Nov 1843
Mary Callaway & Conningsby Denny md. 22 July 1863

ROTHERFIELD PARISH: [East Sussex]

Ellinor Calliway & Robert Gilbert md. 5 Sept 1714

RUSTINGTON PARISH:

Frank Hyde Callaway s/o Frederick & Ann chr. 30 Nov 1863
Walter Avis Callaway s/o Frederick & Ann chr. 24 Aug 1866

SALEHURST PARISH: [East Sussex]

Mary Jane Callaway d/o Abraham Callaway & Jane Harvey chr. 21 May 1837

SELSEY PARISH:

Thomas Callaway & Mary Clark md. 28 May 1808
Thomas Callaway s/o Thomas & Mary chr. 7 Jan 1809
Mary Ann Calloway d/o Thomas & Mary chr. 2 Dec 1810
Charles Callaway s/o Thomas & Mary chr. 2 Jan 1814
Edward Callaway & Ann Fox md. 29 Sept 1814
William Calloway s/o Thomas & Mary chr. 10 Dec 1815
Charlotte Callaway d/o Edward & Anne chr 4 May 1817
George Callaway s/o Thomas & Mary chr. 17 Jan 1819
David Callaway s/o Thomas & Mary chr 28 March 1824

SIDLESHAM PARISH:

Marut Calloway d/o Cutberd chr. 18 July 1572
Cutberd Calloway & Elizabeth Faith md. 25 July 1575
Elizabeth Calloway d/o Cutberd chr. 3 April 1575

WESTBOURNE PARISH:

William Calloway s/o James & Ann chr. 12 Sept 1788

WESTMESTON PARISH: [East Sussex]

John Callaway & Ann Brooker md. 26 July 1815
Samuel Calaway & Elizabeth Hollingdale md. 15 Dec 1817

From: Brian Kelway Willoughby
Sent: Feb, 2, 2006
Subject: 10-Generation Kelway Tree

Hi Folks,

 
Following your "whatever" responses I did some digging in my records with results which are fairly comprehensive - but may or may not be useful!
 
To cut a long story short,  I have a very good 10 to 12-generation tree,  of descendants of John Kelway (buried 20/02/1706) and his wife
Jane (buried 2/06/1715),  both apparently at some time of Penzance. 
 
This tree include Robert K (born 18/04/1780  and  his wife Peggy Jenkins (born 03/01/1791,  (married 26/01/1813) and their 8 children.   
 
These 8, in turn,  include John Barry Kelway (born 01/04/1816),  his wife Mary Shutford and their 6 children,  among whom is Celia Reseigh Kelway
(who married ???? in 1861).
 
In the summary above I have underlined the individuals mentioned in Norma's original email of Saturday 28 January.
 
In my case all of this is entirely thanks to a correspondence in 1981 - with David Stewart whose mother  was Margery Avis Kelway (born 12/07/1896).
 
At that time David sent me a pair of Family Tree diagrams and a couple of days ago he confirmed that he is happy for me to send these on to you.
They are in manuscript - easy to read in the originals,  but possibly less so after scanning etc.  I shall (dv) send the smaller and later one (No. 1)
as a single page but shall split the larger (No. 2) into 2 pages.   Please let me know how they come across.

 KellFamTree (ds) #1     KellFamTree (ds) #2 page 1     KellFamTree (ds) #2 page 2     (right click to save to your computer)

All the best 
Brian

From: Warwick Kellaway
Sent: Feb 2, 2006
Subject: Cornwall to Dorset


Bruce et al 
It looks as though you people have opened a new window.  We look forward to interesting developments.
I note the field spreads from Cornwall to Dorset, and we have now included Brian, with what looks to be some valuable trees.  There should be some family connections there?
The Broadwindsor references intrigue me, as they are encroaching on my patch.  While close to Beaminster, Lyme Regis, Bridport, Shipton Gorge etc, I regret however that I cannot offer any PR information.  Most of mine is concentrated in the central part of Dorset.  Can the OPCs help?
You have also brought out an Edward.  Mine however was over the other side, in Hampshire.
Cornwall is an area we do need to get into. 
Co-incidentally in a couple of respects, I had been trying to obtain information on a John Callaway, who came out to the Coromandel, well before any of our better known families arrived, and he seems to be quietly appearing on the scene.
I picked up a book in a waiting room today on Coromandel, and discovered John was really quite important in the area.  He arrived about 1838 - two years before our Treaty of Waitangi was signed (we celebrate it on Monday).  One of the first settlers there, he was milling the kauri timber, and also built half a dozen schooners and cutters.  He also had one of the first steam driven circular sawmills.  
I haven't got very much on his early family, but he and his presumed brother James, came from Cornwall. 
Warwick

From: Don Kellaway & Les Haigh
Sent: Feb 3, 2006
Subject: Kelways

 
Hi All: 
Attached is some information that I sent to Les yesterday, I felt that the attached information may be of interest to everyone as it appears the puzzle is slowly being solved with input from all of us. There are just so many pieces of the puzzle. I will be having someone look at the Broadwinsor records to see if there is anything more on the Kelway family there including notes, names of sponsors etc.  
Cheers, Don

Kelway.jpg     Kelway1.jpg

 
Hi Les:
 
I am interested in the possible connection between the K families of Redruth to those in Whitchurch as per your e-mail to Norma. "Who is the William K. born Whitchurch, 1830?" As you are likely aware my William was baptized at Whitchurch on 17 April, 1764 and the only other Kellaway baptism with William as the father was Elizabeth bpt. 10 June, 1758 whom I assume was his sister. The only marriage found re a Kellaway was between a Mary Kellaway and a John Moses on 10 June, 1744. There is an entry in the burial register for a William and Mary Kellaway and I thought that they may have been the next generation. At the time I was looking for siblings of my William and stopped around 1740. One has to wonder where all the Kellaways came from and where did they go.
 
For example, I had the Devon Records Office do some research for me when looking for William's baptism and I thought that Lamerton parish may be a good place to check and I was surprised when they informed me that there were no Kellaway baptisms there between 1760-1780.  A check of the Tavistock baptismal register failed to show a baptism for either my William Kellaway or his wife Sarah Goss. According to a researcher of the William Colling that married Elizabeth Kellaway I was informed her father was James born 1729 and died at Tavistock in 1795.
 
Hope this is all of some interest. 
Don

Hi Norma, 
I was thinking about your family and I came upon this birth and death registration which is just too much of a coincidence not to be a huge clue to your line. 

Births Jun 1838
Kelway  Edmund Hallson    Redruth  9 259 

Deaths Jun 1839
Kelway  Edmund Hallison    Redruth  9 157 

The CFHS baptism printout lists this as just Edmund and has it to Charles and Mary but I think it must be an error and it should be Charles and Peggy b.10.06.1838 Falmouth I have them married m.07.06.1837 Helston.

The certificate can be ordered on-line using a credit card (it's £7.50 in UK you can order from abroad) at:

http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/ 

The point really is that Charles must have named Edmund for his mother's maiden name which rather helps with Edward and Cecily Hallson doesn't it? 

Returning to the Colyton problem I have a possible Edward Calway for you. Just possible only. This is the family and link back. Woodbury is fairly near to Colyton

EDWARD CALLOWAY        &         PATIENCE LEE  m.28 MAY 1743   Woodbury Devon

Iseat                 31.01.1744

Edward            21.12.1746                  m. Susanna Holman?

John                 10.04.1754 

EDWARD CALWAY &         SUSANNA HOLMAN m.28.11.1773 Topsham Devon

Edward            03.12.1775 Topsham       m. Cecily Hallson 04.02.1795 Broadwindsor?? Wonder if there are notes on this marriage.

John                 27.12.1786  Woodbury    m. Charlotte Channon?  

I also have this marriage and birth in Colyton. Perhaps another brother for Charles. I cannot find any of these people on later census.

HENRY KELLEWAY  &        ANNE HOOKE    m.02 JUL 1823   Colyton

Thomas           b. 02.03.1824 

Ann Hook  b.15 Aug 1803 c. 21 May 1804   Colyton of Michael Hook & Ann 

Can’t find a suitable birth for Henry about 1800 anywhere in Devon, Cornwall or Dorset but lots missing on IGI 

I have an even more tenuous link from the first Edward back through to Redruth and with one tenuous link I can get from the Redruth families down to William Kellaway Whitchurch 1730 and didn't you say Charles and William DNA matches? Well those of you on this line might enjoy trying to prove/disprove this if nobody has come up with a better idea yet. Let me know and I'll send on the details. 

Hope it helps a bit more.
All the best
Lesley

From: Don Kellaway
Sent: Feb 6, 2006
Subject: Dorset Records

Hi everyone:
The following is from a report that I received from my Dorset
researcher.
I guess it pays to revisit your sources occasionally. You will find notes from the marriage are attached. We had already identified the marriage
from the OPC website so I paid little attention to those details, shame on me. My prime interest was in identifying any children of Edward and
Cecilia.
Cheers, Don

"The following is the information I found for you at the Dorset Record Office.
Baptisms: I looked from 1794 to 1814.
1798 17th June, Cicely daughter of Edward and Cicely Kellaway (could be Kelloway).
1799 6th October, Thomas son of Thomas and Cecilia Kellaway.
1801 12 July, Cecilia daughter of Edward and Cecilia Kelloway.
1804 26th February, George son of Edward and Cicely Kellway.

Marriage:
February 4th 1796, Edward Kelway and Cicely Hallson Both of this Parish were married in this Church by Banns be me Awbry Price
In the presence of: John Nail (difficult to read) .. The mark of and James Brown (He could have been a Church Warden and his name is witness at
several marriages.)

Burials:
1799 9th April, Cecilia Kalloway.
1802 lst July Cicily Kellway.
1802 19th December Elizabeth Kellway. (Who is she???)
1804 29th March George Kellway.

I hope that the above information will be of help to you. I have copied the spellings exactly. I realise that it looks as thought Cecilia was buried before she was born but that is how it is shown in the registers. I know from my own research on the Kellaways that sometimes the vicar
sometimes wrote things down incorrectly. No doubt the local accent had something to do with it.

I saw the Elizabeth Kellway and thought I ought to make a note of her, I went back to the baptisms to see if I could find her but I am afraid I
could not, so I do not really know who she belongs to. There is only a name and date at this time, do parents names. There were no other
Kellaway (and spellings) within the dates I was looking at, several Hallsons."

From: Sherrill Williams
Sent: Feb 11, 2006
Subject: William Kaylwaye (d. 1469)

Dear All, at last winter has arrived in East Tennessee, USA. We have awakened to a beautiful snowfall, the kind that snow shrouds ever tree
branch and twig. And since I am bored with proofreading, let us once again examine the Sherborne Kellaways.

I feel quite confident now in saying that William K. (d 1469) was married 1st to Isabelle [Unknown] and 2nd to Joan, the widow of Roger Ledred. His child/children were likely of first wife, Isabelle. Interesting that the Leddred's show up in the Helyar papers, Muniments from Coker Court, where we found the early records on the Calowe family of Weston, etc. DD\WHh/584 - 8 Aug 1334 "By John Merston, of Bruton, Philip Leddred, of WESTON and others that John Clerk of Alre recovered in the King's Court at Ilchester against Edward Chamflour, John Fitzjames and others a
mill, garden, etc in Bruton. [Somerset Record Office - A2A index]

Same source: 1413 - Witnesses to a document: Thomas Pauncefot, John Montague, Wm Wason, ROGER LEDDRED, etc.

It had to be William, the son of William K. (d. 1469) who married Joan Barret. Dorset Record Office, papers of Baret Family of Sherborne - 26 March 1463: D1548/1 (2) William Kayleway senior, William Kayleway & Joanne his wife [possibly a conveyance of property from the Barets to the two William K's (the younger one having the wife named Joanne)].

In his will William K. (d. 1469) made a bequest to the White Friars of Bristol, to pray for his soul. Did we wonder why? Bristol Record Office: St Leonard's Vestry (Ancient Deeds) 40365/D/2/43 - March 29, 1465 - Grant by feoffment: William Talbot, executor of William Selwood esquire (together with John Atherley of London and Thomas Norton of Bristol deceased) and William Kayleway of Shirborne, Somerset, gent. [Two
other similar documents, one a Power of Atty.] I don't know how "Shirborne" got into Somerset, but maybe the boundary line was indistinct to those in Bristol and London.

Seeing the name of William Talbot, and the mention of Bruton in the above docs. causes me to wonder if those Kellaways of Butleigh, Barton St David, etc. are a part of William K. of Sherborne family!

When you all figure out this next one, explain it to me, please. Devon Record Office - Berry Pomeroy - 1510 - Title Ref. 3799M-0/T/1/1:
Premises: eight messuages, two mills and lands in Berry Pomeroy, Bridgetown Pomeroy, Smalebroke and Flete, which Oto Gilbert, Thomas Bowryng and John Snape gave to Henry Pomeroy and Anne his wife and the lawful heirs of their bodies. If Henry and Anne die without heirs of their bodies, the premises remain to Thomas Pomeroy son of the said Henry, and Agnes Kayleway daughter of Johanne daughter of the said
Anne, and the heirs of the body of Thomas and after the death of Henry, Anne, Thomas and Agnes, remainder to Richard Pomeroy son of Thomas Pomeroy.----- I think we figured out that Agnes Kayleway was d/o a John K. Was that John, grandson of William (d 1469), son of his son, William?
It seems that William K. (1469) was son of a John; that he had a brother, John, perhaps the one involved in the Abbey fire and the almshouse; brother, John also had as heir, his son John. And William, the son of William (1469) also had a son named John. The Johns appear to have remained around Sherborne - three of them were shown as buried there in the early parish registers.
I think I will go back to "proofreading."
Sherrill

From: Lesley Haigh
Sent: Feb 12, 2006
Subject: William Kaylwaye (1469)

Oh Dear this made me dizzy but the only way I can make any sense of that last bit is if Henry and Ann have no heirs together. The Premises are shared by Henry Pomeroy and Agnes Kaylewye (not his wife) and it goes something like this:

Henry Pomeroy married 1) XXXXX produced a son Thomas who has a son Richard

Henry Pomeroy married 2) Ann xxxxx a widow who previously had a daughter Joanne who married ?John Kellaway and their daughter is Agnes Kellaway

Or maybe I'm just dizzy.
Lesley

From: Sherrill Williams
Sent: Feb 12, 2006
Subject: William Kaylwaye (1469)

Les, from memory I think the Pomeroy pedigree shows that Agnes Kayleway married Thomas Pomeroy, s/o Henry. Henry's wife,  Anne, was the widow or d/o of Robert? Cammell; Henry Pomeroy was  Anne's 2nd husband (no children by him). We have to assume that  Richard Pomeroy is s/o Thomas and Agnes. What bothers me about this record is - why do they keep referring to Agnes as "Agnes Kayleway"? and not Agnes Pomeroy. From other records we deducted that Agnes was the d/o John Kayleway (possibly the grandson of William (d 1469). Perhaps you could take a look at this when you go back to Devon RO. I have a bit of "English cash" if you could get me a copy and I could reimburse you for the
copy and mailing costs. No hurry, but this thing keeps driving me nuts! Bruce worked on this a while back. Perhaps he can offer clarification.
Sherrill

From: Warwick Kellaway
Sent: Feb 12, 2006
Subject: William Kaylwaye (1469)

Hi Sherrill
I am making a quick reply.
You have always argued that the Heraldic Pedigrees were unreliable,  and that the Joan Barrett marriage was later than I had juggled from the Pedigrees. There also appeared to have been a "missing generation" - I had thought perhaps of two Thomases - one born about 1430-5, the other, we do know, 1470. If, using some more lateral thinking, there were two Williams, rather than Thomases, we may get a better result matching the new information you amazingly keep uncovering. His father was John, OK the series of Johns seem covered. From his will, there is only mention of one son, William, but, grandsons John and William. I had assumed his son would have been the first Sir William, but maybe Sir William was the grandson. There would have to be some serious study of all the current information, but if William of Sherborne was born c 1400, as we are
fairly certain, and this "new" son William about 1425-30, that would place "Sir" William being born about 1450-60, along with the other "will" grandchildren John, Agnes and Alice.

As I say there needs to be some serious thinking, and potential re-organising of our current records, but maybe, just maybe, you have got it!

Sherborne was indeed very close to the county boundary, and at some time was regarded as being in Somerset. I thought I had seen somewhere that Barton St David was a home of some of William's descendants.

Back to work
Warwick
 

From: Bruce Callaway
Sent: Feb 12, 2006
Subject: William Kaylwaye (1469)

If you go to the Pomeroy pedigree and it can be believed, all or most will be revealed. You will note that it is a long pedigree, but scroll down 16 entries from the top and you will be amongst it.

 
http://www.hdhdata.org/roots/d3880.shtml#f00028
 
Agnes Kelloway/Kayleway, who is driving Sherrill nuts, according to this was the daughter of William Kelloway and Johanna Barrett (d/o Henry Barrett of Whiteparish, Wilts). Dear Agnes married Thomas Pomeroy (d.29 Dec.1493) who was the eldest of three boys and two girls born to Henry de la Pomeroy and his first wife Alice RALEIGH.
 
It is worth stopping and noting at this stage that Henry de la subsequently married Anne CAMMEL of Tittleford Dorset but apparently had no issue which explains the Devon Record Office (Ref.3799M-O/T/1/1) The Berry Pomeroy ranches therefor were to go to some of the children of Henry de la's first marriage viz. Tom, his wife Agnes, and brother Richard.
 
To further complicate the issue (if such is possible) the dear Agnes Kelloway's maternal Grandad, Henry Barrett of Whiteparish above, was originally married to Alice RALEIGH who was her husband's Mum! Shades of the "Martins and the Coys", but goes a long way towards explaining the Coats of Arms which have been on the back burner for some time. Hope this helps but does not hinder! 
Bruce

From: Sherrill Williams
Sent: Feb 12, 2006
Subject: William Kaylwaye (1469)

Thanks, Bruce - that is what we first thought, that Agnes was d/o William Kellaway. But then, go to Kellchat and find where it was determined that Agnes was d/o John Kellaway. I don't think the Pomeroys were quite clear on the matter, either. Then there are the statements of Katherine Huddesfield, formerly married to a Pomeroy. I have that record but the d--- thing is in Latin. The first thing I will do is attempt to transcribe it so all my "Latin experts" can have a go at it. I think Katherine was married to Seintclere Pomeroy, but no children. Seintclere's brothers/nephews were his heirs, thus Katherine's (who later married Huddesfield) interest in the matter.
Sherrill

From: Warwick Kellaway
Sent: Feb 12, 2005
Subject: William Kaylwaye (1469)

Sherrill, Bruce
I think there were at least two Agneses, daughters of a William, and a John.
Warwick

From: Sherrill Williams
Sent: Feb 12, 2006
Subject: William Kaylwaye (1469)

That is probably correct, Warwick. But it certainly does tangle up my thinking. That, and some other matters, like Thomas "of the pedigrees." I now feel fairly confident that "William of Stalbridge" [from Martin's will, 1575) is the William on the 1525 tax assessment in the Stalbridge area, and was a churchwarden at St Mary's, Stalbridge. Martin said he had sons: Thomas the elder, William, Robert (Martin's father) and Thomas the younger. I truly believe Martin knew this information, and the timeline is right. We will get back to work on this shortly while I still remember my questions. We have to fit Thomas into this story; he certainly must be William Cammell's nephew, son of Cammell's sister, but removed a generation or so from the Barret connection.
Sherrill

From: Warwick Kellaway
Sent: Feb 13, 2006
Subject: William Kaylwaye (1469)

Sherrill
A quick comment, before I shut down.

I already had an Agnes as the daughter of John. If as we now suspect, there was another William - William of Sherborne, in his 1469 will referred to a granddaughter Agnes, but only one son - William. Probably therefore, but not necessarily certainly, she would be the daughter of his son William. I did have an Agnes as possibly William of Sherborne's daughter, as well as Morris and John the father of Agnes, but these individuals need some serious thinking about, in lieu of the two William scenario. That John apparently died around 1478, so to have a daughter marrying Thomas Pomeroy at that time, he would probably have been the son of the first William. (I know there were the three earlier Johns, William's father, brother and nephew - but there appear to have been no further descendants from them.)

As regards William of Stalbridge, I had him born around 1495 (which would match your 1525 tax date), the brother of Robert, son of 1470 Thomas, and grandson of "William". He married twice - Elizabeth Wyffen and Ellinor Coker. By them he produced Thomas the elder, and Thomas the younger, respectively. I would have to check my notes again for all his family, but I thought he only had the one son by his first wife, but did have a son Robert by the second. (I think also a son William) The earlier Robert, William of Stalbridge's brother had two sons - John and Martin. So Martin was William's nephew. (Forget Robert W&L here - there were two Roberts in the Dorset family - the first born about the same time as Robert W&L - wonder how that happened?)

Again, if the new theory of two Williams is correct, the Thomas we are speaking of would still be the eldest son of William of Sherborne's son William and Joan Barrett. William No2's second marriage, to the Stantner lady, produced the Rockbourne Sir William (and apparently a Peter and another Thomas). It all fits, so far as I can see, but has anyone yet found the Stantners?

I shall endeavour to place these confusing individuals with probable dates, next week. Hopefully that will explain matters.
Warwick

From: Sherrill Williams
Sent: Feb 13, 2006
Subject: William Kaylwaye (1469)

Warwick, one of the early Johns (brother or father of William 1469 had a wife named Agnes. William (1469) had son, William, whose children named in will were: William, John, Agnes and Alice. I consider Martin's will as the "official source" (vs the Visitation pedigrees). Martin was clear: his grandfather was William of Stalbridge - whose children were: Thomas the Elder, William, Robert (Martin's father)and Thomas the younger. We can prove that Thomas the younger was s/o of Elenor Coker. The others were by the first wife. It would appear that the John K's remained around
Sherborne. Three Johns were buried there according to the earliest (begin 1538) parish registers. They may have resided in one of the nearby parishes, but the histories suggest that those in the nearby parishes were buried at Sherborne. Those 1525 tax lists are our best source for placing these people, most of the early parish registers not surviving. We need to investigate the Whiffen/Whyffen family to see if there is a clue.
Sherrill

From: Warwick Kellaway
Sent: Feb 14, 2006
Subject: William Kaylwaye (1469)

Again, if the new theory of two Williams is correct, the Thomas we are speaking of would still be the eldest son of William of Sherborne's son William and Joan Barrett.  William No2's second marriage, to the Stantner lady, produced the Rockbourne Sir William (and apparently a Peter and another Thomas).
It all fits, so far as I can see, but has anyone yet found the Stantners?

From: Bruce Callaway
Sent: Feb 14, 2006
Subject: William Kaylwaye (1469)

I am trying to hang in there, but of one thing I am certain. The Mother of Sir Bill and his brothers Pete and Tom was nee STANTOR who hailed from Woodhouse Castle HORNINGSHAM on the Wilts/Somerset border.

In 1450, Sir Richard Vernon's daughter Isabella married a Peter STANTOR, and Woodhouse was given as a dower house. The Vernons had held most of the land around Horningsham since Domesday, but it then passed to the Stantors. Young Pete Stantor subsequently became the Patron of the Priory of Longleat (Augustinian Canons). Whether he was the Grandaddy of Sir William or a more distant rel defies me at the moment, and is probably not important! Just trying to keep the facts straight. Now I will tackle all those bleeding Agnes's!

From: Don Kellaway
Sent: Feb 14, 2006
Subject: Sarah Kellaway nee Goss

Hi to all:
Recent developments have triggered my interest in Sarah apparently alive in 1841 apparently having remarried and living with her daughter "Mary Anne Torr". Research done by the Devon Record Office indicated that neither William Kellaway nor Sarah Goss were baptized in the Tavistock parish church "St. Eustachius". During a visit to England in 1998 I visited the church in Tavistock and found a Goss grave marker hidden away in the bushes near the church. The inscription on the grave marker was difficult to read but my interpretation was "Grace, wife of George Goss who departed this life 18 February, 1821 age 61 years".

Since I have the listing of marriages from the DHFS form 1757 to 1812 for the name "Goss" The only Grace and George that fit the dates was a Grace Beare to George Goss at Exeter St. Martin on 24 April, 1796. Then I looked for a Sarah that had married a Goss since my Sarah Goss could have been named after her mother. I found one that fit the time frames for this scenario in "Colyton" on 29 October, 1766 where a George Goss married Sarah Barrat. While all of this may be a coicidence it is possible that George and Sarah are brother and sister. I am beginning to think that Colyton may deserve some further attention.

From: Lesley Haigh
Sent: Feb 14, 2006
Subject: Sarah Kellaway nee Goss

Hi Don,
That looks like a good clue to work on. I should have spotted the burial it is in my Burial Index for Tavistock. Grace Goss buried 22 Feb 1821 aged 62. I have checked 1813 to 1837 no George but there is Ann Goss Buried 07 Dec 1826 aged 49 which might help. It does occur to me that another possible explanation is that Grace could be a second wife for George who married Sarah 1766. Colyton is looking very interesting as you say.
Lesley

From: Lesley Haigh
Sent: Feb 14, 2006
Subject: Sarah Kellaway nee Goss

Hi again Don,
Found these. Might explain George's presence in Tavistock. COUNTY OF
DEVON - QUARTER SESSIONS

Catalogue Ref. QS

VICTUALLERS RECOGNIZANCES - ref. QS/63

Tavistock

FILE [no title] - ref. QS/63/2/05/002 - date: 1822 [from Scope and Content] George Goss, White Hart

FILE [no title] - ref. QS/63/2/15/019 - date: 1823 [from Scope and Content] George Goss, White Hart

FILE [no title] - ref. QS/63/3/08/004 - date: 1824 [from Scope and Content] George Goss, White Hart

FILE [no title] - ref. QS/63/5/11/015 - date: 1825 [from Scope and Content] George Goss, White Hart

FILE [no title] - ref. QS/63/4/13/019 - date: 1826 [from Scope and Content] George Goss, White Hart

Also just in case I found a couple of Sarah Goss about right age. Very much a long shot. Stoodleigh a bit to North of Tiverton.

Stoodleigh Parish

Catalogue Ref. 2985 A Creator(s): Church of England, Stoodleigh Parish, Devon

OVERSEERS OF THE POOR
Apprenticeship Apprenticeship Indentures

FILE - John Goss apprenticed to John Webber for Warsbrightley - ref. 2985 A/PO 8/98 - date: 1782

FILE - James Goss apprenticed to Thomas Besley of Loxbear for West Whitnall - ref. 2985 A/PO 8/118 - date: 1786

FILE - Mary Goss apprenticed to Philip Merson for Throwcombe - ref. 2985 A/PO 8/122 - date: 1788

FILE - Sarah Goss apprenticed to Thomas Copp for Colfoard Mills and Colfoard Downs - ref. 2985 A/PO 8/134 - date: 1790

FILE - Thomas Goss apprenticed to Robert Marshall for Little Silver - ref. 2985 A/PO 8/138 - date: 1792

FILE - Jenny Goss, aged 7, apprenticed to William Bere yeoman for Ashcombe - ref. 2985 A/PO 8/144 - date: 1794

FILE - Ann Goss, 9, apprenticed to Thomas Hatswell yeoman for Rifton Barton - ref. 2985 A/PO 8/156 - date: 1797

FILE - Grace Goss, 8, apprenticed to Roger Maunder yeoman for Champler - ref. 2985 A/PO 8/164 - date: 1801

FILE - Susanna Goss, 11, apprenticed to John Talley for Stoodley Barton - ref. 2985 A/PO 8/179 - date: 1805

FILE - John Goss, otherwise Copp, 7, apprenticed to John Brickdale Esq. for Ashcoombe - ref. 2985 A/PO 8/200 - date: 1813

FILE - William Goss, 9, apprenticed to Jacob Venner yeoman for East Studleigh - ref. 2985 A/PO 8/222 - date: 1825

Binding Orders

FILE - William Goss bound to Jacob Venner - ref. 2985 A/PO 9/5 - date: 1825

Bastardy Examinations

FILE - Mother: Sarah Goss Putative Father: John Copp of Stoodley - ref. 2985 A/PO 13/4 - date: 1806
Lesley

From: Bill Piper
Sent: Mar 4, 2006
Subject: Kellaway Mineral Water

To Sir Hans Sloane, President of the Royal Society.

Sir,
Dr Andree having Wrote this Treatise on my mineral spring, I thought it could not be dedicated to any properer Person than yourself. I
hope you'l excuse our not Asking your Leave first. I have been at Ofset[?] & lookt over yr Farme & shoulde be glad of any Opertunity to meet you at Mr Pates or any Other place to give you my thoughts on the Same [?], and be assured that I am Sincearely Sir Your most obliged Humble Servt Jno Kellaway The 29 Novem 1736

(BL Manuscript 4055 f9)

So who was this John, and did he get any backing from the Royal Society for the exploitation of his mineral spring? There was a covering note from Dr John Andrée introducing his article.

From: Bill Piper
Sent: Mar 5, 2006
Subject: British Library

Dear All,
I spent a few hours yesterday at the British Library.
It's a really exciting place to do research. Forget the poky little CROs and local libraries: the space and the architecture here are incredible. There appear from the outside to be no windows, but the interior has indirect natural lighting. In the manuscript room where I was, documents are brought to your desk.

The two primary purposes of the visit were unproductive.
See a separate email about the Sherborne Cartulary.

There are several armorials. These (being manuscripts) are the notebooks of Kings of Arms (i.e. members of the College of Arms), and they contain handwritten descriptions and sketches ("tricks") of people's bearings. Those I saw date from the C16th and C17th.

Sir William Segar (the one you asked me to check) was one of the heralds; his notebook (with a broken binding) has monochrome ink sketches without descriptions, and blank pages at the back.

There were no C/Ks in any of them. The books were all indexed, but I searched through them anyway in search of quarterings.

I returned (twice) to the printed catalogue of manuscript holdings, and ended up with some references which need to be checked, including (apparently) some K**way arms. These were spotted later, so I shall have to return for a look.

Some interesting items did come to my desk before I had evaluated what I should have been requesting first.

One was a handwritten book, ( 30338) beautifully bound, that had belonged to a Kellaway. It is entitled Treatise on Diseases, etc. It is quite thick and written is dense unparagraphed Latin. On the last page is "Laudeo deo....   John Kellaway". (Sorry, no date, though I feel it was 1730s)  Does anyone recognize John, the medical student or doctor?

I spotted in passing a pedigree of the Weston family, and ordered it wondering if it might contain any Kellaway references. One of the stewards came to my desk. "I've left what you wanted over there.".
I must have looked puzzled.
"On the trolly next to the table."
I saw a narrow box about two metres long.
I had to wait until someone else finished on the "large documents" table with a book, a mere 2 feet by 5 feet, and then a steward helped me unbox this treasure. There was a vellum roll, with visible stitching, about 5 feet wide rolled around a length of curtain rod (with finials). I guess it must have been 30 feet long. As we prepared to unroll it I saw that it referred to the Westons of Surrey. Now Warwick or Sherrill may correct me, but that's not the relevant family, so I apologized for wasting his time, fun as it might be to play with this pedigree.

Looking ahead to my next visit, please advise me:

Are we interested in Matilda le Calewe of Mortone? Quit claim to Simon & Johanna le Smerekever on half an acre in Mortone. (Henry III) (Add ch 5993). Where's Mortone?

Ditto Cailloue, the London bookseller. (Letters to and from P Bayle, 1696, 1696. Fr[ench?] ff 97,106,113,117). (I guess that's our friend from Rouen, in exile.)

Ditto William Calwe, a priest. This is a sepulchral brass, so how that's a manuscript I don't know.

Do we know anything about John Kelwaye, the vicar of Wookey in 1562?

There are letters dating 1908 between FGK, my great-uncle, and J Burns.

They have the seal of Richard de Kellawe, the Bishop of Durham, though I doubt one can actually read that!

Any suggestions?
Bill

From: Warwick Kellaway
Sent: Mar 5, 2006
Subject: British Library

Dear Bill 

You are doing well.  And the British Library must indeed be a fascinating place to visit.
Bruce has now answered you on a couple of items.  Some of the others perhaps I may be able to comment upon.
 
The Dorset Westons are the ones who concern us.  However there are apparently several families, and some Surrey Westons seem to share the "earlier or secondary" COA of the chevron and three leopards heads with the Dorset Westons (and others).  So they do appear to be related, and the early pedigree, if the right family, could be interesting.  The most promising period would be around the 13-1400s, if accessible.
 
Sir William Calwe was evidently a very important, and/or well loved, priest, and is referred to as priest and knight.  He was chantry priest of St Annes Chapel, Ledbury Church, Herefordshire, and died in 1409.  His brass is there, but we know little more of him.  There were several Williams around at that time.  (There is some suggestion from his academic garb, that he may have been a Lollard.) 
 
Mortone somehow rings a bell with me, but I have not been able to find the source.  I sensed it was early, maybe in Devon, but you say Matilda le Calewe.  Forgetting Elias's daughter Matilda of 1220, who would have fitted the reign of Henry III, I think she was probably later (he reigned 56 years), and more probably be one of the Dorset le Calewes, as that spelling otherwise did not appear until much later - closer to 1300.
There is a Moreton in south Dorset today, although there is of course Moretonhampstead in Devon, not too far from Exeter.
I do not know the lady.  Perhaps some-ones sister, more likely widow - a John? - around 1270?  Maybe the mother of the John le Calewe with the 1308 will?
 
You are doing well Bill.  Keep up the good work. 
Warwick

From: Sherrill Williams
Sent: Mar 5, 2006
Subject: British Library

Speaking of the Surrey Westons - I have a pedigree taken from the web that shows the Surrey Westons marrying with our CAMMELLS in Dorset. Causes me to wonder if they really knew their Weston origins. I did not pursue this, but remain curious.
Sherrill

From: Warwick Kellaway
Sent: Mar 6, 2006
Subject: British Library

Sherrill
There is little doubt that time, particularly centuries later, would fog any family familiars. The Heraldic Pedigrees were not produced until 100 or more years after the Westons separated from the Dorset Calewes, while the additional Cammell connection was presumably in this period, or later. They were intermarrying among a limited number of families, which undoubtedly included distant cousins. The point I think is, that because of the common manner of determining families from their location, even after 2 or 3 generations, the differing name would be producing people with little knowledge of their earlier cousins, other than some distant kinship. The same happens today with our own cousins, where a marriage has introduced a new name. Eventually we lose them - they are different families. The one factor that could remain, with families such as the Westons, is DNA - provided the male line has been continuous.
Warwick

From: Sherrill Williams
Sent: Mar 6, 2006
Subject: Timberscombe

Well, I've heard of Timberscombe and have been there. You all need to read my treatise on the Wellington, Somerset Calways in a Callaway Journal a few years back. Maybe you don't all have this issue of the Journal, but Bruce does, and probably "Bulletin" Bill.
This is where we were looking for JOSEPH. Lot's of Josephs in this clan. Also been to Monksilver, which is interesting. It is the only place we have found a C/K named "Maurice" (as in Dorset pedigrees). He may be a bit young for the Dorset Maurice as per the pedigrees - but I wonder if they really knew how or where Maurice fit in the pedigree. We have NEVER found another Maurice, and the one in Monksilver seems not to belong to the other family there...all alone with wife and a couple of kids. He and wife buried there. This is a beautiful part of Somerset, and Watchet is interesting too. There is an interesting little museum there. The legend is that this is the only placc where a ship was captured on horseback. When the tide is out, Watchet harbor has no water; all the pleasure boats were sitting on the ground when we were there. Back in time during the Danish invansions, a Danish ship came up to the entrance to the harbor; the tide went out and the ship was sitting on the ground. The local horse troops trotted out and took the ship. Watchet was once a thriving harbor on the Bristol Channel, but with larger ships being built it became difficult to navigate into Watchet. Bridgwater then got the bulk of the shipping. When Watchet harbor was thriving there was much trade in wool with Ireland. That seems to have drawn some of the Wellington clan to the Watchet area as they were traditionally involved in the cloth business.
Sherrill

From: Warwick Kellaway
Sent: Mar 6, 2006
Subject: William of Sherborne

The Family of William of Sherborne (Word document)

From: Pat Schnurr
Sent: Mar 6, 2006
Subject: Timberscombe

Timberscombe - Watchit - and Monksilver - we certainly drained the Somerset Record Office of all its items.  Because of Joseph and Ann Morgan Callaway we persuaded the SRO to let us view and copy the original parish records there and tracked them past 1700 where they died.  Their desc. had to be the group we found later in Glous. thru the 1800's. We handled all those Manorial originals, too Still this clan

does not appear to be our Joseph line.  My bet is still on the Clifton Maybanke bunch - Martin and Ursula's Joseph hanged at Somerton -during the Monmouth rebellion.  Was a son spirited out of the country - Joseph at the time of the hanging was 40 yrs old.  Remember our train ride on the rickety little train to Watchit?  Miserable weather and the  Viking Reenacment. All of this is in the Journals.

From: Bruce Callaway
Sent: Mar 7, 2006
Subject: Pre medieval

Following a previous discussion, I have attempted to place all references to our 'Family' from the earliest recorded in the excellent (free) download of a Family Tree program from the Mormans. Because it is amenable to GEDCOM, it allows additions, corrections etc. 

Descendants of Guillaume de Cailli (Adobe PDF file)

Once the attached is opened, you can use the Adobe facility to enlarge it (say to about 150%) and it becomes capable of printing. Warwick for one has done an enormous amount of research on this. Admittedly it is possibly in the realms of archaeology rather than genealogy nevertheless it encompasses recorded fact, and is an attempt to link the pre-medieval to the medieval. 

Whilst we wrestle with more intimate details of 'recent' family relationships, I thought that I might throw this into the ring to demonstrate the depths of research of the CFA. Just a thought for the night and no comments solicited, (Don't let that stop you however!)
Bruce

From: Warwick Kellaway
Sent: Mar 7, 2006
Subject: Pre medieval

Bruce  

I shall study further tomorrow.  And see whether I can access the system - have always avoided playing with the conventional tree set-outs.
The greatest problem that far back is that we cannot be sure just how the individuals were related.
There is a fair amount of guesswork.  Ages and dates also.  They become clearer later.
Hence Bill's query about Hawisa's two families.  I guess she did have two, but the second was Gloucesters.
Whether all the C/Ks kids then were Hawisa's is doubtful however, as there probably were other male C/Ks about.
The best information we had of course was the descent of John le Calewe from Elias and Bertha.  Many of the others can attach to that. 
Warwick
From: Bruce Callaway
Sent: Mar 10, 2006
Subject: Sherborne/Rockbourne lineage

Worked all day tidying up my Family Tree program. When I combine all of the recorded marriages into and out of the Family during the two centuries (1400-1600), I cannot reduce a pdf readout under 30 pages! We sure have done this branch over in detail. I guess one of the reasons is that in this era, the Family was very affluent, had connections at Court and the Law, and were not averse to a bit of skulduggery, therefore finding their way into history by being the most recorded.

 
Most of the affluence concerned property, and here again much of knowledge of this time has been gleaned from who owned what, when and how from wills, court cases, disputes, the dissolution of the monasteries etc. But it occurs to me that where we are running into problems is identifying members of this branch who 'kept their heads down' and actually did some work! These were the "Johns", "Thomases" etc identified as belonging to the Family, occasionally recorded as trading in wool, cloth, glass etc. and an odd bit of smuggling, or following a traditional clerical role and occasionally poking a Coat of Arms forward if it benefited their trade, appointment or Court trial. Like anyone running a commercial interest, or expecting security, they diplomatically 'went with the flow' by changing allegiances, politics, religion and names even, depending on the circumstances of the turbulent times. The advent of plague and pestilence decimated many of their families and there was a movement to cities for employment.
 
My thought therefore is that whilst the era covering at least two centuries which I describe as the second rise to prominence of the C/K family, (and I urge you to read Sherrill's forthcoming treatise in the yet to be released CFA Journal of this Sherbourne branch), an explanation of the variance of our Daddy's DNA from a common ancestor is perfectly understandable. A few of us may find links to this most interesting branch, but 'our name' is firmly recorded, with acceptable variance 900 years ago.
 
This a most intriguing and fun exercise I hope that you will agree whereby every little bit of your research helps dot another "i" or cross another "T".
 
Thought for the night and best wishes, 
Bruce

From: Bill Piper
Sent: Mar 10, 2006
Subject: Scientifick Method: Kellaway Mineral Water cures Goute, looseness and Distemper in cattle.

Sir,

Herewith I send you, 6 Bottles of Water from West Tillbury in Essex; the place being situated within 2 miles of Tillbury Fort.  It may reasonably be supposed the Water may have some Communication with the Marshes but in Order to cleare that Objection, I here give you the true Account how he said Well lyeth, & what Observations have been made by my self & others Etc.

This well was made by me in the year 1724 for the use of my House. I having taken an observation by other springs not far from said Well, that they lay about 12 foot deep from the surface of the Ground (which is on a Hill at least 50 foot high above the Marsh Ground) in a hard Gravell.  At about 13 foot deep, there is a bed of Sand at least 30 foot deep which lyeth betwixt the said Spring and the Marshes which prevents any Communication of Water that way & the said Well is within 40 yards of the Extream point of the Hill.

About the year 1727 I being much troubled with the Goute & a great Cold I boyled some of the Water to drink with Wine when cold, and to my great Surprize found it when boyled white like Whey, and so soon as I putt some Whitewine into it became as fine and cleare as at first, which putt me under some doubts, if it might be wholesome or not, but as my family made use of the same for all Occasions, as Brewing, etc, I constantly drank said Water when I was there & found my self alwaies chearfull and that I made near 3 times the Water I made at any other time.  I am a great lover of Milk & never fail Eating some when I am there, but it always worked off like Physick but one morning I drank a Glass of the Water before I eat the Milk, & when the Milk had no effect of purging, I have constantly made use on since, and it continues the same.

In the year 1731 I had a loosness upon me about 14 or 16 days which had made me very weake, but being obliged to go down to Tillbury to look after my Farm I was desired to drink no Beare, but the Water and Wine which I did and the first night my loosness stopped, & my stomach was good the next day and I eat heartily though for ten days before I could hardly Eat or Fast any thing.

I finding my self recovered from said Distemper, I ordered the Person who looked after my Farm, if he found any of the Servants or other Workmen troubled by the said Distemper that he would recommend them to Drink the Water which he did and they recovered.  Since which time, several others have made Use of the said Water, with the same success.

As the foregoing is on Human body, I must take Notice of another Experiment, which is very different in its kind.

You are to understand that as I keep said Farm in my Hands, I suckle a great many Calves, & our young Calves are subject to a scouring and often die, and for a Remedy, we usually boyl Oak Bark in Water, & give them to Drink, to stop the Distemper.  But for 12 Months last past we have only given them the Water to Drink, which Immediately stops the Distemper and we make use of nothing else.

I hope you will excuse the Liberty I have taken in relating the Qualities of the Water but you may depend upon the same as down right Facts & Truth, & that I am Sir,
your most humble servant
Jno Kellaway.

Experiments Tried
The water when boiled is white, like whey.
Put Whitewine into it it becomes clear.
Vinegar makes it much clearer.
Brandy makes no Alteration.
Galls pounded & put into the water makes it turn yellow.

Mr Bivan, an Apothecary in Lombard Street hath made some Experiments which I am not acquainted with.

To Mr Hume Senr at
Mr Black's in Thames Street
With 6 Bottles of Tillbury Water

(In a different hand:)
NB John Andree M.D. hath publisht a small pamphlet entitled an Account of Tilbury Water, Lond 1737 8vo

[Papers Relating to the Royal Society, Birch Collection, British Museum Additional MS 4433 (British Library))

No doubt Bruce could discourse at length on the medical efficacy of Kellaway's Tilbury Water.

From: Bill Piper
Sent: Mar 11, 2006
Subject: Kellaway: Pears & Nippers in unexpected places

Hello all,
At the British Library the general catalogue led me to these two Coats of Arms, under Kellaway, etc.
The one on the left was in a collection of Suffolk pedigrees and arms, but it was just like this, alone and without any date or identification. (The 4th quarter is blank) Can anyone identify the arms or the  Kalawaye who lived in Suffolk. He was a bit far from the Wessex homeland.

The one on the right was with a manuscript document, the Statutes of Sidney Sussex College, Cambridge.
Does anyone know of a connection with the college?
I have written to the archivist at the college, and will let you know of any reply I get.
Bill

From: Bruce Callaway
Sent: Mar 11, 2006
Subject: Kellaway pears and nippers in unexpected places

Bill,
You have done fine played well. The crest on the impaled Kellaway/Harrington arms at the Cambridge College is that of the one and only Baron Harrington, John who married Anne, the only daughter of Robert of the Wards and Liveries and Cecily Upton. The Harrington COA (in existence many centuries) is shown above the Harrington Tomb in Exton Church. Also attached is the COAs above Robert W&L tomb in the same church. You will note that the intriguing Lawyer having taken unto himself the Rockbourne COA ensured that the Harrington knot (or fret) of his son-in-law was also displayed. Now all you have to do is find out what the Baron had to do with Sidney Sussex College Cambridge. Maybe like Oliver Cromwell he attended the College?

Fret: a charge consisting of two narrow bendlets placed in saltire, and interlaced with a mascle. It was been supposed to represent the meshes of a fishing-net. Being borne by the family of HARRINGTON it is found called a Harrington's knot; and riddle-makers see a connection between the Herring-town and the net. Whatever may be the origin, the term fret, or rather fretté, occurs frequently in the ancient rolls, but in many cases probably only a single fret is intended. When two or more frets are borne in the same arms they must be couped, unless each occupies an entire quarter.

LORD HARRINGTON OF EXTON.

HARRINGTON, 21 July 1603.

John Harrington was created by king James the first baron Harrington, which title became extinct at his death 1613.
The Suffolk COA is a basic Rockbourne one missing the 4th quarter. It contains the C/K pears and nippers, the de Romsey coat, and the 10 golden bezants of the Bissett/Bassets. As the original arms were those of the 1470-1547 Sir John of Rockbourne, it belongs to one of his progeny (who may also have been a student or benefactor of Sidney Sussex College?)
 
The other folks may be getting a little lost with our Sidney Sussex College at Cambridge, but I have just noticed an extraordinary thing! Firstly have a look at their sheild:
 
Now compare this with the Harrington tomb shield at Exton which I sent through to display the Harrington COA, and you will note that the right hand side device \1/ above Harrington's wife (whom I assume was the Baron's Mum) and the right hand side of the College shield could be construed as being identical (well almost considering one is carved and the other computer generated). The plot thickens. If you are in contact with the College, maybe you could ace them on this! 
Bruce

From: Bruce Callaway
Sent: Mar 11, 2006
Subject: Kellaway pears and nippers in unexpected places

Young Bill Piper,
Whilst you have been sleeping, I believe that I have been able to sort out the "pears and nippers found in unusual places" by virtue of research into the Coats of Arms (Originally introduced to us by young Willoughby) and provoked by your clever findings at the British Library concerning their appearance at the Sidney Sussex College of Cambridge. I commend the study of COAs to all of our researchers as they provide an incredible amount of detail valuable to our researches.

If y'all are not bored out of your mind, and have a spare moment, consider the correspondence before on this subject, add below, and then read my Word doc which summarises what we have determined. The story behind the COAs of this Cambridge College are probably unknown to them. Certainly I can find no full reference to it on GOOGLE. I invite Bill in his possible dialogue with the College to quote from it. (Word doc to follow) Bruce

SIDNEY FAMILY

Lucy SIDNEY

Born: ABT 1520

Died: ABT 1591

Father: William SIDNEY (Sir Knight)

Mother: Anne PACKENHAM

Married: James HARRINGTON of Exton (Sir) ABT 1540, Penshurst, Kent, England

Children:

1. John HARRINGTON (1º B. Harrington of Exton)

2. James HARRINGTON of Ridlington (1º Bt.)

From: Sherrill Williams
Sent: Mar 13, 2006
Subject: 3 John C/Ks

Do you all think the following records of 3 John C/Ks are referencing the same John?

Chancery Inq.p.m., Edw IV, File 27 No. 13 [old reference no doubt] Inq.p.m. taken at Sherborne for John Caleway, Esquire, on Nov 4, 1468 - states that "he held no lands or tenements of the King or any other on the day he died, namely on 10th March last past." John Caleway is his son & next heir, aged 19 years and upwards.

Supplied to the McWhirters of Canada, by their researcher (who maddeningly did not give his sources): "A writ dated 21 March at Westminster states that an inquisition at Shyrborn, Dorset determined that John Caleway Esquire held no lands or tenements of the King or of any other demeane or service on the day that he died, namely the 10th day of March past. John Calewey is shown as his son and heir, aged 19 years and concerns bequests of gold and silver chalices in his possession to various monastic orders and convents in order that they may offer prayers for his soul."

Those two items obviously refer to the same John. What about the following:

From FINE ROLLS, 1461-1471, Edw. IV - Henry VI: Writs of diet clausit extremum, directed to the escheators in counties named, after the death of: March 21 - John Calewey, esquire, Devon & Cornwall April 29 - John Cayleway, esquire, Southampton, Wilts.

If this is the same John, is it saying that he held no land in Dorset, but may have held land in Devon, Cornwall, Southampton or Wilts? By some hook or crook we need to see the Inq.p.m. for this date for Devon, Cornwall and Southampton/Hampshire/Hants & Wilts, to see if this John held land in those counties.

Then, who is this John? He is not John, the father of William [1469 will] of Sherborne, because of the 19 year old son & heir, also named John. Was he the brother of William of Sherborne? Did he reside in Dorset, or one of the other counties mentioned?

Always the questions, seldom the answers - But, could this be the person who connects our 3 major tribes? Come on, all of you, please dig in your "shoeboxes."
Sherrill

From: Warwick Kellaway
Sent: Mar 15, 2006
Subject: 3 John C/Ks

Sherrill
I doubt anyone can be absolutely definite, but am fairly sure that the 1467 John would have been William's brother. I was also fairly certain his son John did not survive to have any progeny. The dates 1461-71 are wide, but include 1467. As far as property is concerned, I have no idea, but my interpretation has been that William and John's father John, had property in Devon (Grandfather Edmund went there), and presumably Wiltshire (where I think that John was the last Patron of St Giles, from 1405-29). Nothing sure about Cornwall and Southampton (Hampshire) property, but later family members certainly had property there. I suggest the two references would be the same man, and therefore probably that John. There has always been the possibility that John was from the Stafford Barton family in Devon, but the reference to Wiltshire seems to confirm the eastern family.
Warwick

From: Sherrill Williams
Sent: Mar 15, 2006
Subject: Stray Kellaways

Here are a few snippets of Kellaways from other family lineages on the Richard Travell webpage. These are not of great significance, but could be helpful someday.

BLANDFORD FAMILY LINEAGE:
Sarah Elizabeth WADHAM (d/o Robert WADHAM & Elizabeth (Betty) BLANDFORD was bapt 3 Feb 1819, Poole; d. 25 Dec 1896, Portsmouth; md. 5 Dec 1837, Swanage, Samuel Lance Cleall (d. 1897). They had 4 sons (unnamed) and 1 daughter: Emily Harriet Cleall - md. JOHN KELLAWAY. Their chn:
1. Ivy Kellaway
2. John Kellaway
3. Ethel Kellaway - md. Frank Whitfield
[Note: Robert Wadham was s/o Benjamin Wadham & w. Sarah Hosier]

CORTON DENHAM, SOMERSET FAMILIES:
John BRAIN,Gentl., farmer, bapt Charlton Horethorne 25 Dec 1793; d. 18 Oct/bur24 Oct 1871 (age 78); MI at Corton Denham; md. 4 April 1825, Mary Ann Shayler (d. 1829 - age 44). Their son: John BRAIN, farmer "of Church farm" bapt 27 June 1827; d. 11 March/bur 16 March 1886, Corton Denham (w.p. 24 April 1886, Wells); md. 1855, Weymouth, Dors., Elizabeth Mary Bridge KELLAWAY, b. Langton Herring, d/o RICHARD EDWARD KELLAWAY, farmer of Elworth & w. Susanna Bridge Frampton of Stratton, Dors.

HOUSE FAMILY LINEAGE
John House, Sr. (1704-1783) md. (1) Melior Palmer; md. (2) 10 Jan 1730/31, Puddletown, MARY KELLAWAY (bur 11 March 1786 (age 76)of West Stafford, Dors. Child by Mary Kellaway: John House, Jr. (b. 1754, Alfpuddle; d. 1821, Puddletown); md (1) Elizabeth "Betty" Nipprod; md. (2) Tabitha Russell of Fordington, Dors. Had several children by both wives.

FAMILY OF NEWMAN OF FIFEHEAD MAGDALENE
[This is someone's attempt to sort through the "alias" problem].
I Robert NEWMAN (d. Sturminster Newton [w.d. 20 June 1528; w.p. 26 Oct 1528, PCC] md. Agnes _______ (living 1528); "probably father of: II Agnes (bur 10 July 1754, Marnhull, Dors; md. William KEYNELL of Hanford [w.d. 20 March 1499/1500; w.p. 30 May 1500]. Their daughter: III Als? KEYNELL (widow), bur 12 Nov 1604, Marnhull; md. NICHOLAS KELWAIE (bur 9 April 1566 or 5 June 1571, Marnhull. Their son: IV Nicholas KELLWAY "alias Clarke" - vicar, (bur 20 Feb 1612, Fifehead Magdalene, Dors); md. (1) 28 Nov 1570, Marnhull, Dors, Margerie Ashe; md. (2) Agnes/Ann (bur 7 April 1614, Fifehead Magdalene). Descendants come down as "Clarke" (some with connection to Hazelbury Bryan); others descend as "Clarke alias Kellaway."

Sherrill

From: Warwick Kellaway
Sent: Mar 15, 2006
Subject: Stray Kellaways

Sherrill
I picked up a couple of strays there. One in the Bexington family. You also seem to have found the answer to the Nicholas Kelwaie/Keynell/Clarke aliases at Marnhull. We can probably trace them very much further. In fact, although Clarke is a common name today, and most are undoubtedly no connection, we could find a DNA match. (I have a Clark with a 10/12 match myself, among the Keys and Binghams.)
Warwick

From: Sherrill Williams
Sent: Mar 16, 2006
Subject: Patrons of the parish of Caylleway

I just ran across the following displaced item: Cary got this at Dorset Record Office, but there is no further reference on it. It is a typed copy of the Patrons of the parish of Caylleway - St Giles Caylewey -Tudryngton Caylewey, etc. in Wiltshire.

1304 Caylleway Parish Patron: Johannes de Cayllewey who presented Edmund de Tyderington as Rector

1312 Caylleway Parish Patron: Johannes de Cayllewey who presented W. De Budeston, Rector

1312 Caylleway Parish Patron: Johannes de Cayllewey who presented Thos. De Meustrewoth, Rector

1336 S. Giles Caylewey Parish W. de Cayleway who presented Nicholas Cottespore, Rector

1336 S. Giles Caylewey Parish W. de Cayleway who presented Richard de Bere, Rector

1348 Cayllewey Parish W. de Cayleway who presented Gregorius David, Rector

1348 Cayllewey W. de Cayleway presented Richard Creym, Rector

1376 Kaylewey Edmund de Kaylewey presented Robert de Last

1380 Kaylewey Parish Edmund de Kaylewey presented John Wyttyingeslow, Rector

1399 Tudryngton Caylewey Robert Stodeleigh presented Henry Cane, Rector

1405 Kayleways Parish John de Kayleways presented John Pedewell, Rector

1429 Kayleways Parish The Bishop presented John Cranburn, Rector

That is the last of the C/Ks presenting at this parish. They were followed by Robert Russell, Elizabeth Russell, John Bagod Knight, then the Longs, Henry William, Robert up into the early 1800's.

Hope that will help our perspective.
Sherrill

From: Warwick Kellaway
Sent: Mar 16, 2006
Subject: Patrons of the parish of Caylleway

Sherrill
I got these names from the manorhouse owner in 1990. Had not seen them elsewhere. Have used them to try to sort out the family.
You will note the first Johns match Elias's descendants. The long span of the Williams made me wonder whether there was one or two, from
1336-1376 - over 40 years! Note that Edmund left in 1399, John returned in 1405, until 1429.

The Russells, unusually a lady patron, were around when Maud Heath's Causeway was built, while the Longs, as Longs de Kayleway appeared in early Parish Registers (they were there nearly 300 years).
Warwick

From: Bruce Callaway
Sent: Mar 20, 2006
Subject: Sherborne Rockborne

As I build up the Family Tree program(me) in an attempt to link Sherborne in Dorset and Rockbourne in Hampshire, I am adding some 'undisputed' facts. I am unaware if my last pdf sending which was capable of enlargement, printing and physical pasting was of any help! I had not inserted the rels about whom we were still debating. When I revisited the ownership of Bapton, prompted by Sherrill's query about the Ellis clan, and if we are to believe R.B. Pugh from British History Online, he has provided a five generation descent from the 1400 William (whose Father was the 1370 John) from his second marriage to the Stantner woman from Horningsham. It all devolves around the Bapton, Tisbury properties which were subject to the complicated inheritance surrounding Joan Barrett and well explained in the article.

 
I have inserted these five generations with approximate dates where none have been identified by research thus far, and thus far my program has not shouted that these are inconsistent! The descent of the Bapton crowd was as follows:
William K/C of Sherbourne (1400-1469) [Whose Dad was the 1370 John and Grandad was 1340 Edmund] by second wife Stantner
The Thomas who married Lewston
Robert(brother of William K/C of Stalbridge (1500) who firstly married Elizabeth Wyffen and from whom the Plunknetts, Jerrards, Phelpes et al emerged and William's second marriage to Ellinor Coker, progeny recorded.
John of Bapton who died in 1568 and his son
Henry of Bapton circa 1560 and his son
Robert K/C circa 1580 and his son
Robert K/C circa 1600
 
I believe that we have reached the stage where we must accept that the period between the late 14th century and the early 17th is where we have an enormous amount of detail. These 300 years were dominated by three branches, but there were at least two others, closely related, who kept their heads partly down because of their 'commercial' interests and the instability of the times. Robert of the Wards and Liveries popped up latterly, dominated historical recording and blurred relationships. The branches on whom we perhaps should be seeking more detail are the least recorded and I doubt that given some as yet dramatic breakthrough, we will ever sort this, however importantly it is to the history of "Our Family" (Sherrill will throw up her hands in horror at this statement and maybe I am just getting old!).
 
So where are we at? By virtue of our genetic project we are establishing that the 'Tribes" of C/Ks so far identified approach some common ancestors 400 to 600 years ago. It is doubtfull that we will be able to directly link any one tribe to the familes which we have so meticulously recorded, yet we are all somehow related therefore this history is important, and the more credible our research, the more credible is our attachment. They survived, therefore we and the name survives.
 
C'mon Sherrill! We need direction. Where do we go from here! 
Bruce
From: Warwick Kellaway
Sent: Mar 20, 2006
Subject: Sherborne Rockborne

Bruce 

I do not know Mr Pugh, although the name sounds familiar.  Have some doubts however as to his pedigree descents. 
My information, from the Heraldic Pedigrees of Wiltshire, Somerset and Cornwall, all had William marrying Joan Barrett, as his first wife, and had Thomas as their eldest son.  (Neither Dorset, nor Hampshire had them at all.)
These Pedigrees were produced in the 1500s, not long after the people concerned were alive, and while their close descendants were.  As they were intended to eliminate all pretenders, I really cannot see them being in error.
The Wiltshire Pedigrees, admittedly the only County, referred to William's second wife  -  Stantner.
Also to Thomas, the eldest son and heir, marrying  -  Lewston, and by her had issue, Robert, William and Agnes.  (This was confirmed in Somerset.)  Robert and William were almost certainly still alive when the first Pedigrees were being produced.
(There was a second son Moris.)
The second, Stantner, marriage was stated as producing William, Peter and another Thomas.
This is where there is some confusion - where I thought at first there might have been two Thomases, father and son, it now seems we are looking at two Williams, father and son - to explain the fact that the Thomas (William's heir) who married the Lewston lady, was not born until around 1460-70.
(See the attached.)
By following this line, we get (omitting other siblings):
 
Edmund    c1340
John         c1375
William    c1400
William      c1430
Thomas     c1460
Robert       c1490
John         c1515
Henry        c1545
John         c1575
Robert       c1600
Robert       c1625
 
The last two Roberts would have to be born around then to match the Blandford Forum records.
(Sherrill there were two Johns of Bapton I think?  The first married Jane Gawen.)  
Warwick

THE FAMILY OF WILLIAM OF SHERBORNE  c1400-1469 

There have been numerous references to William of Sherborne and the members of his family.  These have permitted a reasonable interpretation of his immediate family. 

The family outline became better defined as time moved from the 1400s into the 1500s.

There has however been some confusion over individuals, where they share the same name.  The most difficult position to determine has been where William of Sherborne, who we justifiably consider would have been born around 1400, and left a will in 1469, had from reliable sources, Thomas as his eldest son and heir. 

His will makes no mention of a Thomas, but concentrates on his second family, and those who were later to become the Knights of Rockbourne. 

The situation is partially explained by William having a second marriage, but the date of birth of the only matching Thomas is considered to be 1470, and he could therefore not be the eldest son,.

One explanation of the situation was that there may actually have been two Thomases, father and son, born c1430-40 and 1470.

The latest information however has offered a new theory, relative to the marriage of William with heiress Joane Barrett.  That in fact there may instead have been two Williams, father and son.

This explanation resolves some difficulties, although it introduces others. 

Reliable information gives Joane’s Barrett’s father as Henry, her grandfather John.  In 1413 John held the Wiltshire estates of Bapton and Tisbury, later to become family possessions.

Assuming the elder William was born about 1400, perhaps 1410, his son William(?) could have been born around 1430-40, and thus could have married Joane.

This being the case, William of Sherborne’s will refers to the future Sir William, c1440-1507, and his family, including the future Sir John, c 1470-1547.

However it also brings a number of other children into the second William’s family.

Thomas 1 and Moris, the sons of the first marriage to Joane Barrett, John, William, and Alice, who must have been very young, and Peter, Thomas 2, Lora and Jane, who presumably arrived after William of Sherborne’s death.  The latter were children of the second marriage, to the Stantner lady.

To include John and his daughter Agnes, who married Thomas Pomeray, we must add John to the family of William of Sherborne.  The Agnes, who married Richard Estcourt also. 

These changes appear to produce a revised descent as follows, from Edmund and Joan, of Wiltshire and Devon:
Edmund c1340-1411 m Joan  - 

·         The family of Edmund and Joan, of Kellaways Wiltshire, and Cheldon, Devon: 

1          John 1             c1370-1429 (possibly 1440)

2          Thomas           c1375-                                     m Joane Bingham Apparently no descendants 

·         The family of John 1 and   -   of Sherborne: 

1.1         John 2           c1400-1467

1.2         William          c1410-1469                             Called William of Sherborne 

·         The family of John 2 and    -   of Sherborne:   

1.1.1      John 3           c1448-                                     Apparently no descendants 

·         The family of William of Sherborne: 

1.2.1      William 2       c1440-1507                             m 1 Joane Barrett

                                                                                        2    -    Stantner  Created Sir William 1501

1.2.2      John              c1440-1478

1.2.3      Agnes            c1445-                                     m Thomas Estcourt - The family of William 2 and Joane Barrett of Sherborne: 

1.2.1.1   Thomas 1      c1460-                                     m    -   Lewston

1.2.1.2   Moris             c1460 - 

          The family of William 2 and    -   Stantner of Sherborne and Rockbourne: 

1.2.1.3   John              c1465-1547                             m 1 Ann Strangeways

                                                                                    m 2   - ? Created Sir John c1536?

1.2.1.4   William          c1465-

1.2.1.5   Alice              c1470-

1.2.1.6   Peter             c1475-

1.2.1.7   Thomas 2      c1475-

1.2.1.8   Lora               c1475-                                     m Sir Amias Paulet    

1.2.1.9   Jane              c1480-                                     m John Payne 

·         The family of John and   -   of Cheriton Fitzpaine: 

1.2.2.1  Agnes             c1460                                      m Thomas Pomeray 

·         The family of Thomas 1 and   -   of Sherborne: 

1.2.1.1.1  Robert         c1490-                                     m Joan Marshall

1.2.1.1.2  William        c1495-                                     m 1 Elizabeth Wyffen

                                                                                        2 Ellinor Coker 

·         The family of Sir John and Ann Strangeways of Rockbourne: 

1.2.1.3.1  William        c1495-1569                             m Ann Hawlways

                                                                                    created Sir William 1553

1.2.1.3.2  Dorothey     c1500-                                     m John Buller 

·         The family of Sir John and   -   of Rockbourne: 

1.2.1.3.3  Giles            c1515-

1.2.1.3.4  John            c1515-

1.2.1.3.5  Henry           c1520-

1.2.1.3.6  George        c1525-

1.2.1.3.7  Elizabeth     c1525-                                     m Robert Martin 

·         The family of Robert and Joan Marshall of Sherborne: 

1.2.1.1.1.1  John         c1515-1568                             Of Whitparish

m Jane Gawen

1.2.1.1.1.1  Martin       c1520-1575                             Of Lillington

m Dorothy Frampton No descendants 

·         The family of William and Elizabeth Wyffen of Stalbridge: 

1.2.1.1.2.1  Thomas 1 c1520-                                                m Elizabeth Martin

1.2.1.1.2.2  Richard    c1525-

1.2.1.1.2.3  William     c1525- 

·         The family of William and Ellinor Coker of Stalbridge: 

1.2.1.1.2.4  Thomas 2 c1540-                                                m Elizabeth Joanes

1.2.1.1.2.5  Robert      c1540- 

·         The family of Sir William and Ann Hawlways of Rockbourne: 

1.2.1.3.1.1  ffrancis     c1525-1601                             m Frances (Rogers)

1.2.1.3.1.2     John         c1530-1586

1.2.1.3.1.3     Edward    c1530-

1.2.1.3.1.4     Ambrose  c1535-1582

1.2.1.3.1.5     Sybil         c1535-                                     m George Thorpe

1.2.1.3.1.6     Elizabeth  c1540-                                     m William Skilling

1.2.1.3.1.7     Mary         c1540-                                     m William Button 

·         The family of John and Jane Gawen of Whitparish, Wiltshire: 

1.2.1.1.1.1.1 Henry      c1575-

1.2.1.1.1.1.2 Phillip(D) c1580-

1.2.1.1.1.1.3 Elizabeth c1580-

·         The family of Thomas 2 and Elizabeth Joanes of Stalbridge: 

1.2.1.1.2.4.1        Richard           c1575-

1.2.1.1.2.4.2        Andrew            c1575-

1.2.1.1.2.4.3        Robert             c1580-                                     m  -  Smith  Bailiff at Blandford Forum 1629-1641

1.2.1.1.2.4.4        Raffe               c1580-

1.2.1.1.2.4.5        Ursula              c1585- 

·         The family of ffrancis and Frances (Rogers) of Rockbourne: 

1.2.1.3.1.1.1  Thomas             c1550-1606                             m Ann More

1.2.1.3.1.1.2  Anne                  c1555-                                     m George Lawrence 

·         The family of Henry and  -  of Bapton: 

1.2.1.1.1.1.1.1  John               c1575 

·         The family of Robert and  -  , of Blandford Forum: 

1.2.1.1.2.4.3.1  Anne              c1605-                                      m Walter Ridout of Stoford nr. Barwick

1.2.1.1.2.4.3.1  Susan             c1605-                                     m  -  Hunt

1.2.1.1.2.4.3.1  Robert            c1605-05                                                                                               

·         The family of Thomas and Ann More of Rockbourne: 

1.2.1.3.1.1.1.1  Loue               1576-1631

1.2.1.3.1.1.1.2  Anne               1579-1579 

There are few definite references from here on.  The Rockbourne Knights were gone.  Apart from possibly in Wiltshire, there appear to have been few sons in the succeeding families to continue the name.  The Sherborne and Wiltshire families become difficult to follow.

New families appear, particularly in central Dorset.  With no specific or obvious family origin, it seems they may be descendants of lesser members of the earlier families. 

Warwick Kellaway March 2006                                                                                                     E & OE

From: Sherrill Williams
Sent: Mar 20, 2006
Subject: Sherborne Rockborne

Bruce, I am looking for Peter! And the Stanter connection looks promising because of Peter Stanter. But those "pedigrees" have Peter C/K hanging every which way. On your pedigree, below, you have William K (1400-1469) married to "second wife Stantor." Our recent records (from the Almshouse deed) say that William's wife was Isabella [Who?] and he certainly was married to Joan, the widow of Roger Ledred. In his will he refers to his "late wife Joan," and her mother, also named Joan. Apparently William K. died a widower. We have decided that his son, William K., married Joan Baret - and they had William, John, Agnes and Alice. They could also be parents of Thomas [born after the death of William (1469)], who may also be the "co-heir of William Cammell" in some convoluted way. This Thomas could be the "3rd son" and thus the owner of the COA in Sherborne Abbey featuring the mullet. But, no proof as Thomas is curiously absent from records around the Sherborne area, only popping up in the Bapton, Wilts. records. Where did he actually reside? So, I think we still have a lot of questions, and those "visitation pedigrees" are not all that helpful. Comments will be helpful and welcombe.

Warwick, there may be 2 Johns at Bapton, but we have a chancery case that involves Henry and his son, Robert. And later there appears to be grandson, Robert. If you recall the Sherborne pedigree which is headed "Robert of Rockborne" but turns out to be "Robert of Lillington" as proven by the will of Walter Berrington of Frome Selwood (Somerset)whose sister was married to "Robert of Lillington." This Somerset pedigree included a whole family of C/Ks then living in Wiltshire, various places, which brought Kathryn Payne into our discussion. A very knotty situation we have here.
Sherrill

From: Warwick Kellaway
Sent: Mar 20, 2006
Subject: Sherborne Rockborne

Sherrill
You have caught me there. It was late last night, this morning, but I seem to be mixed between the family of Henry in Wiltshire, and Lillington, and that of Thomas the Younger, around Stalbridge in Dorset. The Wiltshire Robert was the former, the Blandford Bailiff Robert the latter. We already had too many Roberts.

I think your presumption over William's son Peter, and Peter Stantner, could be correct, if the mother was a Stantner. Unfortunately many of these men left no descendants, although there was a Peter at Mappowder, who would have been born around 1500 - grandson of the earlier Peter?

Thomas, born around 1460, I think though is clearly the father of the "first" Robert, born around 1490, and presumably the eldest son of the William who married Joan Barrett (if there were indeed two Williams), and became Sir William in 1501. Born about 1435 (rather than 1440), and the son of the William of Sherborne with the 1469 will. Thomas may have missed "the 1469 will", because he was too young, but there has never been any real explanation as to why Sir John would inherit his father's property, before his elder half brother, Thomas. The only suggestion I have is that Thomas was the son of Joan Barrett, not the Stantner lady - the second wife, and still on the scene. Thomas may have remained in the country, while John was in London/Westminster, with his Dad.

It still remains confusing, but I really think we are slowly unravelling the knots. I do agree with Bruce, that there are lesser family members, or even family tags (don't say dags Bruce), who by aliases etc have joined us. (Hence funny things that look like Bingham DNA!) Apart from the strong possibility of lesser sons from the 1400s, or even 1300s, about whom we know nothing, we already have William Webbe, alias Kellowe, 1496 mayor of Salisbury, and the two famous Robert Keilways a few years later. (Were they really Webbs - any Webb DNA anywhere yet?) William Kelway of Marnhull produced his 1492 will - who was he? We now know the Clarke aliases appeared there. We still do not know where Nicholas of Forston originated, and he is the key to many later Dorset families. And we must not forget Devon. I note the later families around Tavistock are getting resolved. More early research around Dolton is needed.

Fun isn't it.
Warwick

From: Sherrill Williams
Sent: Mar 20, 2006
Subject: Flesh for old Williams' (1469) bones

If you recall, William said that his "seal" was unknown to many, so he borrowed the seal of the Abbess of the Cistercian Order of Tarent to seal his will. I have been curious about that, and today I found a bit of information. Apparently the Order of Tarent has few surviving records, but what is available is interesting. [Dang kitty, again. What is she stepping on? I think you just received a partial message, which I am attempting to complete].

"Terenta of the Nuns" was included among religious houses of the Cistercian order to be visited by the abbot of Ford in virtue of the royal commission, Jan 1535, but no report of its condition is recorded" There is a list of Abesses of Tarrant Kaines, but it is incomplete. I was curious who was Abbess when William borrowed her seal - but the Abbesses for that time frame are unknown. Edith Coker was one of the
last abbesses and she died in 1535. She was replaced by Margaret Russell, elected 1535, and surrendered the Abbey in 1539 at the dissolution. "In the 14th Century certain chantries were founded in the conventual church that prayers might continuously be offered for the souls of royal and distinguished benefactors. In 1347 in consideration of the sum of 46s.8d. THOMAS BARET obtained a licence to bestow certain messuages and lands in Charleton and Little Crawford for the provision of a chaplain to celebrate every Monday in the Abbey Church of St. Mary for the good estate of the king, for his soul when dead, the souls of his progenitors, the grantee and his heirs. Thirty years later, THOMAS GILDEN, chaplain, a weekly corrody for life from their abbey, with a chamber in the houses lately built by THOMAS BARET to be kept in repair by the abess, and assigned to him the office of chaplain of the parish church of All Saints, Little Crawford "otherwise called St. Margaret's chapel," in return for 20 pounds paid by him to the abbess and for other benefits."
A seal of this abbey survives [Deeds of Surrender, No. 232]..."the 13th Century pointed oval seal attached to the surrender deed of the abbey represents on a corbel the virgin with Crown, standing, the Holy Child on the left arm. Before her the abbess kneeling holds up a flowering branch. In the field two trees." The legend runs: SIGILLVM. CONVENT VS DE. TARENT. [Victoria History of Dorset at British History Online] Can this be the seal dear old William used to seal his will?
Sherrill

From: Bruce Callaway
Sent: Mar 21, 2006
Subject: Flesh for old Williams' (1469) bones

The 1400 William of Sherbourne 'pinched' the Sherbourne Missal. I will not be moved from this. His assumption of the Tarent seal for his will I have discussed elsewhere and involved dirty dealings at the crossroads.

 
I am becoming a little 'over' the odd Robert, John etc. Because the Sherbourne crowd and their descendants are now fairly well delineated by the property inheritances which filtered down through the family by the various marriages and Court cases which are now recorded, and subsequently frittered away.
 
What we are seeking, are the offshoots of the Family. Those that kept their heads down, made money, copulated and thus produced our more immediate Ancestors. I realise that Sherrill's pursuit is after the illusive Peter and the possible introduction of the name into the Family in this period. Whilst the link may ultimately be made by this e.g. the Peter Stantner, this link was 200 years before Sherrill's 1640 Peter!
 
Please factor in the confusion between Stalbridge and Lillington. I accept Warwick's recent update of the three families (minus the odd John and Robert), I accept Sherrill's distrust of the pedigrees and agree with her. I guess that I am a little frustrated by the direction but confused as to how we proceed. Is it dotting the 'Is" on these families about whom we know so much in the hope of a break through? Do we work back with our genetic program? Certainly the former is more fun. 
Bruce

From: Sherrill Williams
Sent: Mar 21, 2006
Subject: Flesh for old Williams' (1469) bones

Bruce, I know you think I am nuts! But, with 200 ways to spell the C/K name, I am concerned that we are missing something. That is why I am following these associated families. By using that method I was able to sort out our two US Callaway families. Hope it will work in UK.
We have the ancient family in the Stalbridge, Dorset area; another ancient family in Wilts; and of course the ancient Devon family. The question becomes: where did they actually reside? And how are they all related? The Devon DNA suggests there might be a mixture there, but we cannot rule out "mother in the haystack," either. Since we don't have any Dorset DNA we cannot make comparisons. Then there is the "mysterious Thomas" that Warwick and I keep sparring over. He seems to be prominent in the visitation pedigrees; he is "mentioned" in the flap with the Estcourts in Wiltshire; then there is the "co-heir and nephew" of William Cammell, named Thomas C/K. That is it! No official record of him in our collection - or that I can find anywhere on the web. The pedigrees suggest that he is father of Robert (father of Martin), but Martin says his father, Robert's father was "William of Stalbridge." On the matter of old William marrying (2) Joan, the widow of Robert Ledred: I searched the Ledreds and found that Roger was s/o of Henry Ledred and Amy Down of Devon. But when I searched on "Leddred" they turned up in the East Coker Muniments, involved with the Westons.  I was always curious as to why William (1469) borrowed the seal of the Abbess of Tarent. So what if his seal was "unknown to many." When I happened on to that information on the Abbey, I hoped to see who he actually borrowed the seal from - did he have an old "girl friend" there? Denied that, but did learn that Thomas Baret left a footprint there, whatever that may be worth....and whoever Thomas Baret was? So, I am just searching for relevant information from unexpected places. Sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't. So, we shall see.
Sherrill

From: Lesley Haigh
Apr 29, 2006
Subject: Rockbourne Cullompton link

Hi everyone,

 
This is going to be a long email but I think it might help some of you piecing together some of the various branches of Kellaways. I think it also relates to your earlier question and information, Warwick. I got out the leases listed below and had copies made. I have listed the references and what is said on A2A from Devon RO for each. I have then added the extra information found from the documents. I have fully transcribed the last lease so let me know if you want a copy of the transcription. I need a Latin expert for the others. Can't cope with both the writing and the language.
 
It is all rather interesting and I'm sure some of the experts on the really old families will be interested in the Rockbourn/Devon/Cullompton references and  Kellaway names. Perhaps you can fit it all together. Some of the other names might also help    Here is the summary:        
Kellaway: St Giles in the Wood, Manor of Whitsleigh.  Lesley Haigh April 2006

 

Reference: 189M-1/L18-19     Creation dates: 1498 & 1500              

DRO Scope and Content          Two lease in reversion

1. William Kayleway

2. Richard Elston and Alice his wife

Premises: Barton or capital messuage at Whitsleigh

 

April 2006-04-19 DRO

/L18

The document is neat and in good condition. The writing is difficult and in Latin. Can Read names.

 

/L19

The document is neat and in good condition. The writing is difficult and in Latin. Can Read some names.

 

On the back is written in old style writing (f = s etc Capitals often easily confused).

 

A Lease from William Kayleway Eqr to Richard Elston and Alice his wife for their lives to commence after the death of Agnes

(?)Hondy of all that Barton or Capital Messuage in Whityslegh with all the Demesne Lands theirto belonging and for the yearly rent of five Marks =/ 2:16:8/ with a warrant of money to John Palland Walter Pawlyn to deliver possession to the said Richard and Alice. Witness Lewis Polland John Barry Hugh Barry and others Dated at (?)Exon 6 day of March 14 of Henry the 7th . 1498

 

 

1528 189M-1/L20       Lease 25 June 1528.

DRO Scope and Content says

1) John Kayleway of Cookbury, Son of William Kayleway, and others

2) John Drake

Manor of Whitsleigh and Land in Whitsleigh, Worthen and Roborough

 

April 2006-04-19 DRO

The document is very neat and in good condition. The writing is difficult and in Latin.

On the reverse is written in English but old style writing.

 

A Lease from John Kayleway of Rookborn Knight Son and Heir of William Kayleway Knight and Robert Kayleway John Kayleway of Colompton and Thomas (?)Molens Feoffes of the said William Kayleway for the Manor of Whityslegh   and of all the Land _-ents Meadows Pasture Rents  ........s with the Appurtanances in Whitisleigh  Worthen and Rowburgh in the county of Devon for the consideration of 100 Marks / 66: 13: 4 / Did at the special request of the said John Kayleway Knight grant and confirm unto John Drake the Manor aforesaid with Appurtanances in Whitesleigh Worthen and Rowburgh for the term of one hundred and eleven years from the making of the Indenture without Impeachmennt of Waste and for the yearly rent of 4: 10: 1 and the best beast at the end of the term for an Heriot.(?)  A Letter of Attorny to John Smyth, John Edmonds and Simon Kayleway and John (?)Hake to deliver

possession of the same to the said John Drake witness John Whytney Eqr Henry Waldson Eqr Ag (?)Stheford Eqr ,William (?)Jotinor, Robert Hone and others. Dated at Rookeborn the 25 day of June the 20 of Henry the 8th . 1528.

 

(So Cookbury or Rookborn? It comes up several times. K and R similar in alphabets of the time, the n has a tail. It could be read as Kookbury but the first letter is the same as for the R of Robert so I think it is Rookborn)

 

Reference: 189M-1/L21           Creation dates: 4 Oct. 1538

Scope and Content       Lease

1. William Kaylwaye and Anna his wife

2. John Elston and Agnes his wife

Premises: Barton at Whitsleigh

 

April 2006-04-19 DRO

The document is very neat and in good condition. The writing is difficult and in Latin. The photocopy is faint in places. On the reverse is written in English but old style writing.

 

A Lease from William Kayleway and Anna his wife to John Elston and Agnes his wife for their lives of the Barton or Capitol Messuage with the demesne Lands in Whityslegh in Parish of Saint Gyles in the Wood in the Hundred of Torrington in the County of Devon under the yearly rent of five Marks / 3   6   8/ first of _ornt(?) and best beast for an Heriot(?)

Witness Leonard Stowfford Nicholas Furse John Drake and others. Dated 4 day of October in the 30 of Henry the 8th (1538).

 

Heriot- What is this? Have I misread the H?

 

Reference: 189M-1/L22           Creation dates: 11 Nov. 1547

Scope and Content       Bargain and sale

1. William Keylwey

2. Gilbert Drake of Littleham

Premises: Manor of Whitsleigh and property in Great Torrington and Roborough

 

April 2006-04-19 DRO

The document is very neat and in good condition. The writing is very old style but in English. I have transcribed it.

 

It is between William Keylwey of ROKBOURN in the countye of Smtht (?) and Gilbert Drake of  (I don’t read it as Littleham it is a shorter word) Lillam in the countye of Devon (abbreviation?) The document rambles on about the Manor and land in the area. Later it mentions William’s wife Anna.

 

Then the document refers to:

Sir John Keylwey Knight lately deceased father of the said William Keylwey

John Elston of Whiteslegh

John Keylwey late of Culhamton Devon deceased. (A separate John from Sir John)

John Drake father of the said Gylbert Drake.

Dated 11th Nov 1st Edward the 6th (1547)

 

Note: (?) before a word uncertain first Capital. (?) after word uncertain word or meaning.

 

From the visitations of Devon:

John Drake married Agnes daughter of John Kellaway (which one?) and their third son was Gilbert.

So do we have:

William Kellaway Knight (1440-1507) of Rockbourne

                        |

Sir John Kellaway Knight (? – before 1547)  of Rockbourne owned property at Whitesleigh

                        |

William Kelaway m. Anna                     of Rockbourne owned property at Whitesleigh

 

Contemporary with Sir John we have Robert, John of Cullompton and Simon.

1543 Subsidy roll has Simon Kayleway Colompton, Leonard Stowford was at Wetheruge and Robert Stawford at Dolton (was he one of the Stowfords who became Kellaways?) in 1569 Robert Colwaye is at Dolton.

 

Hoping you can all make sense of this. 

Lesley

From: Sherrill Williams
Sent: Apr 29, 2006
Subject: Rockbourne Cullompton link

 

Les, you have done well. It is wonderful! I have always said that John of Cullompton was more closely associated with the Rockborne clan than the Sherborne, Dorset clan. I think this proves it. And ROBERT comes up again. This is, no doubt, Robert the brother of Sir John of Rockborne, who was father of our famous Robert of "the Law" and "Surveyor of Wards and Liveries" - if it was not enough that Lawyer Robert's arms at his tomb at Exton is quartered with the Bingham & Basset arms, same as John of Rockborne. Now, if we can just plug in the C/K Stoford/Stafford bunch in the proper place, we will have solved one of our great delimnas.

The William C/K, 1st William, Knight, was father of Sir John of Rockborne. The 2nd William, Knight, was the son of Sir John of Rockborne; this William's wife was Ann, and they haggled forever over her (Ann's) "jointure" or "dowery" in the Rockborne estate. We
thank them for it because it allowed us to line that family up properly.

That leaves Simon for us to distress over. I suspect that the 1st Simon is a nephew of John of Cullompton, as he refers to him as "cousin" in his estate documents. Who would be his father? A later Simon, in the succession of Simons, does appear to possess property in Cullompton, formerly belonging to John of Cullompton. He is even "patron" of the church at Cullompton.

Sherrill

From: Warwick Kellaway
Sent: Apr 29, 2006
Subject: Rockbourne Cullompton link

 

Well done Lesley
 
What you have achieved there is definitely leading us closer to resolving some of our outstanding questions. Sylvia also continues to supply new information we knew nothing of. One suggestion I would make to all, is that we have another look at the map of Devon.  Around Dolton, and Stafford Barton we now have clear references to:
 
St Giles in the Wood (has that any association with the St Giles Church at Kellaways Wiltshire, and the Chapel at Chenstone manor at Chawleigh?)  The manor of Whitsleigh was apparently there - rather than present-day Withleigh near Tiverton. Roborough (referred to elsewhere as a COA source) is nearby. Winkleigh (have I mixed that one somewhere?) Iddelsleigh. There is a Cookbury near Black Torrington. Not forgetting Broadwoodkelly.
 
The 1528 lease ties a number of the properties together, and includes the later Sir John Kayleway (knighted about 1530 and the son of Sir William (c1440-1507)), with John and Simon of Cullompton.  The Robert Kayleway here however I suspect would be Sir John's cousin Robert, the head of the Dorset and Wiltshire families, who married Joan Marshall.  He would have been about the same age as Robert W&L, and Sir John's son William (later Sir William). John of Cullompton's daughter Agnes married John Drake. The Staffords were originally C/Ks from Stafford Barton, Dolton, although there is a slight mystery as to why they were de Stofords before Staffords, as there is a Stoford further south in Devon.  (It is now becoming apparent that the Dorset Stoford, and possibly the Wiltshire Stoford, were so named because of the family connection.)
It is interesting that the Rockbourne knights held Whitsleigh manor.  Whether by inheritance or marriage is not clear.  From Sir John's wife Ann Strangeways?  Rockbourne itself came from the marriage to Joane Bingham.
 
Keep up the good work you fellers. 
Warwick

From: Sherrill Williams
Sent: Apr 30, 2006
Subject: Rockbourne Cullompton link

No, Warwick - regarding ROBERT. That is the Robert who married Alys Gover Byfleet, the widow of John Byfleet of Salisbury. Alys is the mother of one of the "sisters" mentioned by Robert W & L in his will. We will have to do a search on Whitsleigh (another spelling problem!)
Sherrill

From: Warwick Kellaway
Sent: Apr 20, 2006
Subject: Rockbourne Cullompton link

OK Sherrill.
But can you be sure. I didn't see a reference to any Byfleets or Alice there. Did I miss something? The implication seemed to be that Whitsleigh was in the Woods with Giles. Couldn't find Worthen there anywhere though.
Warwick

From: Sherrill Williams
Sent: Apr 30, 2006
Subject: Rockbourne Cullompton link

Warwick, you would not see Byfleet connected to Robert C/K in this instance. Robert, husband of the widow Alys Byfleet, gave testimony in her court case that John Byfleet's property would go to his heir, Thomas Byfleet, a minor at the time. Robert never had any claim to Byfleet property. We find him involved in the Rockborne fiasco, apparently signing off on Widow Ann's jointure. Again he is involved in the Whitesleigh (or whatever it is) property with Sir John, John of Cullompton, Moleyns, etc. Now I am wondering about Moleyns.....seems one of that name was involved in Martin's estate, 1575. Perhaps we should look into that family for clues.
Sherrill

From: Lesley Haigh
Sent: Apr 30, 2006
Subject: Rockbourne Cullompton link

Sherrill,
Wederige, an unidentified DB manor, held by Reginald from Robert, Count of Mortain, which probably lay in Roborough hundred.
Is this the Wetheruge where Leonard Stowford is in 1543?
Whitsleigh Manor in Saint Giles in the Wood parish and Fremington hundred.
Whitsleigh Barton was a Doomsday Manor. It is marked on Streetmap UK as Whitsley Barton about 2 miles SE of St Giles in the Wood on the way to Roborough
A search on A2A for Whitsleigh brings up refs back to 1334. The manor appears to pass to an Alexander Woolacombe 1557 Worthen seems to have been somewhere near Bradworthy although Streetmap has it over near Pyworthy today.
Lesley

From: Sherrill Williams
Sent: Apr 30, 2006
Subject: Rockbourne Cullompton link

Thanks for that, Lesley. And a response to your question about "heriot." It is an obligation from Saxon times on an heir to return to the lord the war apparel of the deceased tenant BUT since the Norman Conquest it became "a tenants heir giving his lord the best beast of the deceased, and later this became simply a money payment, in effect, a fee to enter into the estate."
Sherrill

From: Bruce Callaway
Sent: May 1, 2006
Subject: Rockbourne Cullompton link

The Overseer of Martin's (1530-1575) will is described as Thomas Mollins in one version and Thomas MOLEYNS in another. The 1528 reference to the Thomas Molens one of the Feofees, together with Sir John of Rockbourne (1470-1547) and his alleged brothers Robert of New Sarum and John of Columpton, of the Manor of Whitsleigh, its "Apputanances" and those also in Worthen and Roborough, may be a red herring but should be noted. 

I also note for the record that in 1538 when William (1495-1569) son of Sir John of Rockbourne and Grandson of Sir William (1440-1507, the original owner of the said lands), He together with his wife Anna, appeared to have control, as they were leasing the Whitsleigh and nereby Barton properties to John and Agnes Elston despite the fact that the original Feofees had only 10 years earlier leased the joints to John Drake for 111 years! 

May have been a bit of dirty work at the crossroads because I again note that said William had to finally sell the whole lot to Gilbert, son of the original John Drake in 1547. This may have been the beginning of the downward spiral of this once hugely wealthy branch. Within three generations via William's son Ffrancis (1525-1601) and his Grandson Thomas (150-1606) Rockbourne itself had gone. Heavily mortgaged to Sir Anthony Ashley it was bought by the latters son-in-law Sir John Cooper. 

I have thus far been unsucessful in ascertaining how the C/Ks originally came by the St. Giles in the Woods Parish properties, but I will keep trying.Great work Lesley. Your leases are proving invaluable!
Bruce

From: Lesley Haigh
Sent: May 1, 2006
Subject: Rockbourne Cullompton link

Thanks Sherrill,

Here is the transcription of 1547 lease. Words in bold defeated me! Any suggestions appreciated or any possible errors let me know and I'll check again. Transcription attached.

1547 Lease

Lesley

From: Bill Piper
Sent: May 1, 2006
Subject: Rockbourne Cullompton link

Les,
I'd like to suggest some of the missing words (shown in bold), though without seeing the original it's only a guess.

Line 4: Smtht. Possibly abbreviation for Somerset. Rockbourne is right on the border between Somerset and Hampshire, though I would
think it's in Hampshire. Possibly the border has shifted over the years. Alternatively, try Southampton.

Line 17 satuat: situate(d); To...es: Townes. (fee: no idea)

Line 22: mymyments: monuments. Does that make sense?

adindged: adjudged

saveharmles or sareharmles: it feels as if Gilbert and Will are being protected from harm.

--stomable: OED gives "estimable" as capable of being estimated, or valuable. There's also (OED) worthy of esteem or regard. So if that's
"estimable" misspelt it suggests it was a well established yearly rent.

mann: manuscripts?

_rt-le ??

A-ions Actions. (I think it fits)

Any use?
Bill

From: Warwick Kellaway
Sent: May 2, 2006
Subject: Rockbourne Cullompton link

Lesley
An impressive "translation", and I think Bill has offered many of the missing words. My only addition would be to say that for some reason Hampshire was called Southampton for some time. Rockbourne is actually close to Dorset, and some of the villages nearby may have had family there.

I did get quite excited earlier when I saw Count Robert II of Mortain - confused him with Robert II of Meulan - that would have been something - but the excitement faded. Robert was the half brother of William C, and the Earl of Cornwall, so we had no connection.

Possibly mymyments may have been minuments or similar, but nearly the same.
Warwick

From: Sherrill Williams
Sent: May 2, 2006
Subject: Cartulary of Launceston Priory

I am attaching two files from my 2003 English notes. One is my version the Launceston Priory. The other is for our "schoolboy Latin experts." I think we can get the "drift" but a schoolboy translation of FEUDAL AIDS would be helpful.

I am now trying to figure out how John of Cullompton and Sir John of Rockborne are related. It must be that Cullompton's father was another brother of Sir John of Rockborne, thus he was Sir John's nephew. But, who was Cullompton's father?
Sherrill

The Cartulary of Launceston Priory [Cornwall]
Lambeth Palace MS. 719
by  P. L. Hall (1987) 

p. 117.  Gift, grant and confirmation by Thomas Smyth of Newport [Neuport] to John Trethewy, chaplain, of all his messauges, land and tenements in the vills of Launceston and Newport and the rents and services of William Sutton and Alice, his wife, and the reversions of the lands they held from him Warranty and sealing clauses. Wits: William Mustard, Roger Kelyowe, William Snellard.  Dated Launceston, Monday, 26 November 1380. 

p. 143/144. Instrument about the celebration of the chapel of Hill in the parish of St. Gennys by the vicar there on two or three Sundays or at most once weekly. 

In the name of God amen. By this present public instrument may it appear evident to all that in the year of our Lord according to the course and computations of the English Church 1402, in the tenth indiction and thirteenth year of the most holy pontificate in Christ, of the father and of the lord Pope Boniface 1xth. On the fifth day of January in the parish church of Bodmin in Cornwall in the diocese of Exeter in the (document) written below and in the presence of the underwritten witnesses personally constituted, the discreet men, Masters Benedict Canterbury, William Kelwa and Richard Oliver, clerks of the diocese of Exeter and Sir Adam Thomas, perpetual vicar of the parish church of St Gennys, (came together) for the peaceful settlement of a certain dispute in the consistory of Exeter between the noble lady, the lady Elizabeth Botreaux, relict of the noble man the lord William Botreaux, knight, and the parishioners of the chapel of Hill of the one part and the said lord Adam, the vicar, of the other, about the founding of one chaplain to celebrate in the said chapel continually or on certain days in the week. Master Benedict and Richard appeared on behalf of the lady Elizabeth and the parishioners of the chapel, and Master Kelwa on the part of Adam, the vicar.

…….and this goes on, of little importance to us…………. 

The following is important because it gives us a date for this man. 

p. 174.  #470.  Examination of the witnesses of Master William Sargeaux, rector of the church of St. Martin by Looe. 

William Kyllyow of free condition aged 55 agreed with Richard Skurell.  ‘Bocepytpark,’ Roketepark,’ ‘Luskruk” and a parcel of land of ‘Cattenepark’ next to Bucklawrenburgh were of the church of St. Martin by Looe and tithable exactly as a fifteenth part cultivated by the labour and at the cost of the prior. If these lands fell in hand he supposed that the fiftteenth part would be again restored in lieu of the full tithe. In the time of Thomas, formerly prior of Launceston, there were 9 acres of land, partly in ‘Semyslond’ and partly in ‘Longalond’ belonging to the manor of Bucklawren set to laymen who accordingly paid a full tithe to the rector, but formerly when the land had been tilled at the cost of the prior they had paid in fifteenth only.  He added to the evidence of Robert Skurell that William the then rector of the church took the whole tithe of hay of the whole manor in that year. Otherwise he agreed with Richard Oliver….etc…. this was dated 26 August 1384.

[This William K. was born in 1329]
SUW

From: Warwick Kellaway
Sent: May 2, 2006
Subject: Cartulary of Launceston Priory

Sherrill
You have produced some more little gems. With dates.
We are at last starting to get the pieces of the Devon story. Until now we have really only been busy in Dorset, and further east. It is becoming clearer that the branches did maintain their connections, despite suggestions that they were distinct families. The situation became muddy because a number of the Devon family members changed their name to Stoford and Stafford.

You have brought out Mokesbear (with 50 other spellings), near Tiverton and now vanished under the motorway/railway or something, which we know was a major family home back in the 1100s. Also Chedeldon/Cheldon, which was in family hands around 1300 at least, and where the prominent Wiltshire family moved in the 1390s, after over 200 years at Kellaways manor there. We still are not entirely sure why - apparently a dispute with a Courtenay - but why there? Was the manor vacant at the time?

In Exeter, William Kelwa would presumably be the father of the William Kelwa/Calwe, Notary Publik, who was forced to munch on his seals of office in 1384, but survived to be issuing letters of exchange overseas, and with his wife give an oratory in 1401 (think a small chapel). We know nothing of any descendants, but maybe the Kelways from around there?

I am always intrigued by St Martins at Looe, Cornwall, because although it has no C/K relevance, my G/grandmother's father John Martyn, Jeweller of Looe, went all the way to little Alderney around 1850. Why would he do that - another strange move by members of my c/klan!

As regards John of Cullompton's family, the indications have been that he was a member of the Devon family, rather than closely related to the Rockbourne knights. I do not have a problem with that if, as it seems, the two families maintained their connections. Both were prominent, and shared a name. Although I still suspect the Robert mentioned with him may have been the Sherborne Robert, John's family might have come from Cheldon. That would offer a family connection perhaps from the early/mid 1400s. (I do see from my notes that around 1410 Thomas of Stowford married a Prouz heiress of Gatford, in Colyton, while in 1423 Thomas Stowforde and his wife Joan received Licencia Celebrandi to hold divine services at their houses in Stafford Barton and Colyton. Perhaps this puts John back to Stafford Barton, if he later acquired Colyton.)

I am becoming more convinced that something similar was happening around Dorset, Hampshire, and the Isle of Wight, at least. Despite them living close together, I have not been able to confirm family links between about 1600 and 1750 - 4 or 5 generations. And we get differing DNA.

Possibly also the case with Robert W&L. We have never been able to confirm a close family connection. Maybe it was as much as 4 or 5 generations back - although probably not that far. The point may be, that when you were involved with legal transactions, what better than to have your cousin, the most important legal man in the country on your team. Those living in London or Westminster must have associated, but Robert still presumably maintained connections with his more rural Dorset and Wiltshire cousins, who did marry into the legal Gawen family. Thomas Gawen was his protege.

Don't know about the schoolboy Latin, but quods etc are versions of which, and tenuits versions of hold. You will note that interesting word "nullus". Apud - with. The numbers are forms of unum, duo, tre, quat, quin, sex, sept, oct, nonem, decem etc. Filium suum - his son. Anno regni regis Edwardi - year of the reign of King Edward. If of any use, many of the words were the base for our English. The verbs were commonly put at the end of a sentence,adjectives follow the noun. Unfortunately some of the spellings were medieval versions, which differ from those used today, which doesn't help.
Warwick

From: Brian Willoughby
Sent: May 2, 2006
Subject: Rockbourne Cullompton link

Lesley 

Very many thanks for the transcript - very welcome.
 
I support Bill Piper and Warwick - I believe Hampshire/Hants is a shortened version of the original County of Southampton.
 
But how about muniments?
 
And perhaps article?
 
All the best 
Brian
From: Bruce Callaway
Sent: May 2, 2006
Subject: Rockbourne Cullompton link

I would like to continue the association of the Drakes participation in the legals of the Saint Giles in the Woods dispersment as revealed by Lesley's interpretation of Leases and what I consider the ultimate downfall of this branch of our Family.The Drakes were closely associated with the C/K's and therefore this is worth reading. The father of (Sir Frances) Drake's bride was Sir George Sydenham, sometime sheriff of Somerset, who had inherited from his father the estate of Combe Sydenham in the same county and had added to it since. In 1561, for example, he had purchased the manor of Sutton Bingham from Sir William Kayleway of Rockborne. He played the local benefactor, providing 15 pounds per year from his properties at Combe Sydenham and nearby Stogumber for the upkeep of six cottages he had donated to poor widows, and was a pillar of the county administration, regularly mustering the local levies at Bridgwater. Sir George's wife, Elizabeth, was of no less distinguished lineage than the Sydenhams. She was the daughter of Sir Christopher Hales, once Attorney-General to Henry VIII and the prosecutor of Wolsey, More, Fisher and Anne Boleyn. 

This reference is from: http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:cpzaVffiPZkJ:www.tudorplace.com.ar/Bios/FrancisDrake.htm+Kayleway+Devon&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=4

Sir Walter Raleigh. His background. He was born in 1552, during a time when his father leased Hayes Barton from the Duke family of Otterton. He was half brother to Sir Humphrey and Sir John Gilbert, from his mother's first marriage. He had a brother, Carew, and sister, Margaret. He married Bessie and retired to his manor at Sherborne, Dorset. Here he built Sherborne Castle in 1594. From 1617 this has been the home of the Digby family (17th. century Earls of Bristol).

At the height of his career, Sir Walter angered Queen Elizabeth by secretly marrying Elizabeth Throckmorton, one of her ladies in waiting.

Raleigh conceived and organised the Colonizing expedition to America that ended tragically with the "lost colony" expedition on ROANOKE Island NC.

Sir Walter's ghost is said to appear at Sherborne Castle on St. Michael's Eve (20 September).

Raleigh's father, Walter Raleigh of Fardell, had moved east from Fardell, on the edge of Dartmoor, upon his marriage to Joan Drake, a distant relative of the famous sailor, Sir Francis. 

The Drake's, Raleigh's and C/K's were all extant at the same times and places. There was obvious communication concerning property purchases. Whilst I have no wish to hang our Family on the coat tails of these two famous historical figures, I believe that records such as those recently explored by Lesley may contain more interactions between the 'lesser' members of the Families. Is there not an association with Coats or Arms between the Drakes and C/Ks somewhere?
Bruce 

From: Bruce Callaway
Sent: May 3, 2006
Subject: Rockbourne Cullompton link

With the renewed interest in John Kayleway of Collumpton, it may be time for fresh eyes to be cast over his will which was obtained by Sherrill a number of years ago. I realise that it is in the possession of some, and is available on Donna Morgan's excellent cache of "English Research" on her website www.callawayfamily.org  but something of interest may be contained therein for others.

 
The illusive Simon/Symon Caleway/Kayleway herein described as John's "cousin and servant" is favoured. It is clear that John, who was a Freeman and Merchant of the Staple at Calais, wished for Simon to also become one. I believe that I am correct in saying that George who is mentioned in the Will was very young at the time and in fact did not survive childhood?
 
Bruce

From: Bruce Callaway
Sent: May 3, 2006
Subject: Rockbourne Cullompton link

A tad puzzled by the contributions of y'all to "missing words" until receiving the transcription. Rockbourne (which I have visited and have some knowledge of) is definately in Hampshire, and I concur that the County could at this time been referred to as Southampton. I doubt that the County boundaries have shifted Bill Piper! The incredible legalese has been somehat refined to-day and has shifted to the 'fine print' which accompanies most interactions undertaken today, but still remains obscure in order to confuse the troops and generate income for the lawyers. 

The fact of the matter is that, despite our dotting of the "I's" etc., At this time the Rockbourne crowd had amassed a huge fortune in property from marriage with the De Romseys and Bissett's, were prominent at Court, and had influential friends. Sir William (1400-1469) chose or was granted the COA which was confirmed for his son Sir William (1470-1547), and descended to his son Sir John Sherriff of Hampshire, and which the famous Robert of the Wards and liveries adopted. 

Here I ask you to stop and reflect. We need a time line 'a la CSI'! 

To the best of our researches John of Collumpton who died c. 1530 was born c. 1427 dying at the improbable age of 103. Immediate problem! date of death confirmed but date of birth possibly obscured from Sherrill et al with their experience at the Moore Chapel in Collumpton. 

There can be no doubt that one of John of Collumpton's daughter's viz. Agnes married JOHN DRAKE of Exmouth (St Otterys). Said John Drake not only was a witness to the Will and a beneficiarfy as a Son-in-law, but he and Agnes' son Gilbert ultimately took possession of WHItSLEIGH Manor, and all the other property under discussion from Sir William (1495-1569) K/C of Rockbourne in 1547 THE DATE OF HIS FATHER SIR JOHN OF ROCKBOURNE'S DEATH. 

Okay Okay! At this stage I believe that I have lost y'all. But just figure this for the take home message.

The Drake's were swanning around in Sherbourne with the Raleigh Family circa 1500's so let's take a confirmed  date viz. the will of John of Collumpton probated in 1531. 

Sir Walter Raleigh was born in 1552, Sir Frances Drake in 1542 and Sherbourne Castle was not built by Raleigh until 1594. Sutton Bingham was being flogged off to Drake's future Father-in-law by William K/C in 1561 when the Dear Sir Walter was only nine years old! Ergo, the John Drake about whom we speak  was an ?Uncle, and Gilbert a cousin. Here I attach the C/K's COA's appearing in  Saint Ottery's Church aligned with the Drakes, above an effigy of an unidentified Drake. Y'all take your time to figure what is presented. Fun isn't it?
Bruce

From: Sherrill Williams
Sent: May 3, 2006
Subject: Rockbourne Cullompton link

Bruce, I believe I am correct in saying that the Hampshire borders were changed in the 1970's realignment of UK counties. In earlier times, what is now Hampshire was referred to as Southampton. Someone can confirm that, please.

Getting the dates right is SO important, especially when dealing with multiple persons with the same name. I take this opportunity to address Warwick's concerns regarding the two ROBERTS. Robert C/K who married Joan Marshall is NOT the same Robert who is involved in
these Devon deeds or leases.

1499 - John Tournour of Twyford, co. Southampton, for not appearing before the justices of the Bench to answer Robert Kayleway of Whytisbury, gentl - re: a debt of L12. Wilts [Calendar of Patent Rolls, 1494-1509]

1507 - Robert Kaylway appointed to commissions of the Peace: July 11, Westminster Sept 17, Knole, Wilts.

1523 - Robert Kellway I, MP for Salisbury. [He is the one who married Alice, widow of John Byfleet (d 1502) of Salisbury. [See Robert's deposition in Chancery Case involving "Mistress Alice Kellway & John Dene, 1537 (previously passed around)]]]. Also see mention of Robert in chancery case involving Dame Ann's jointure in Rockborne [previously passed around.]

This Robert was married to widow, Alice Gover Byfleet; date of marriage not known, but probably not too far beyond 1502 [John Byfleet's death]. Robert was the husband of Alice, formerly Gover/Byfleet, in 1537 when he gave his deposition in Alice's court case.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

1520 Lillington: dispute between Thomas Hymmford of Bratton beside Brewston, Somerset, gent & Robert Kaylewaye of Bapton, Wilts, gent - annuity out of the manor of Lillington

1544-45. Robert Kaylewey of Lillington, Sherborne Hd, Dorset; taxed for Land

1546 William Weston of Stalbridge to Robert Kaylway of Lillington, esq. & Thos. Garrard of Wareham & William Kaylway of Stalbrygge, gent, feoffment of land in Knighton in Bere Hackett, Dorset, etc (Coker Court Muniments).

1558 - Inq. P. M. for Robert Kelway, Dorset [have copy, in Latin]

1559 - Robert Kayleway of Lillington [Dorset Wills & Administrations in the Salisbury Probate Court, now preserved at PRO, London] [Dorset Wills, 1568-1799].
Note: I inquired of "staff" at the PRO about this will, but "staff" did not know anything about these wills. It is not indexed in PCC wills. Someone suggested I look at Wiltshire RO, Trowbridge. I consulted "staff" there, and we looked for this Robert's will - but their holdings really do begin 1568, and we did not locate Robert's will. Anyone who can find this will gets a "star in his Crown."

This Robert C/K is father of John of Bapton and Martin of Lillington (will 1575).

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

These Roberts, above, are two different men. They are not playing in the same ballpark.

Bruce is correct, we must assign dates to these people to get them in the proper generations. I will be back on John of Cullompton shortly.
Sherrill

From: Warwick Kellaway
Sent: May 3, 2006
Subject: Rockbourne Cullompton link

Slow down a mite Bruce.  The dates are getting to be a problem.

 
We currently think the first Sir William's dates were c1440-1507, otherwise he might have had a posthumous son.
Not sure where John of Cullompton's date of 1427 came from (the only John I can think of around then was William's son, whose daughter married Thomas Pomeray), but he had a relatively young family, including a 6 year old son when he died. 
His daughters, who married Henry Lyte, William Cooke, Thomas Codrington, William Harewood, John Tubb and Richard Grenville, plus a few others, were still marrying up to the 1550s, so would presumably have been born around 1512-25.  (Two of these, Codrington and Grenville, at least, had Naval connections and we have Raleigh appearing also.  Then there was Sir John's son Gyles and his galleass.) 
He had two Mary daughters, and may have had two Agneses, if one married John Drake, as another had married Henry Lyte - she died in 1564.  It is possible his first wife Elizabeth, if she was his wife, died in 1511.
 
Yes fun. 
Warwick

From: Sherrill Williams
Sent: May 3, 2006
Subject: Rockbourne Cullompton link

Warwick, we don't have a firm birth date for John of Cullompton, but 1427 would make him about 104 years old when he died - not likely, especially since he had a 6 year old son when the Inq.P.M. was held. I think a lot of tradition has got in the way of facts regarding him. I will address this tonight, after I have served dinner. I suspect that the Lyte pedigree got the wrong Agnes. There is another serious problem with that pedigree, as the author descended himself from the "wrong mother." Also, the "historian" said (if we can believe him) that the window fragments at Godney came from the manor house at Lillington. That would suggest that the Agnes married to Lyte came from the Sherborne clan.

The discussion we had on this family a little over a year ago did not get into Kellchat. Evidently we did not copy Donna on it. It should be there, and since we have some who were not with us during that discussion, I will re-send the main points.

Until after dinner,
Sherrill

From: Lesley Haigh
Sent: May 4, 2006
Subject: Rockbourne Cullompton link

Hi All,
Thank you all for your missing word suggestions.

Smitht could also be Sutht so Southampton Yes
Satuat - probably Satuat for situate(d)
To---es - Townes Yes
fee--- - could just be feelds
mymymente - the y letters are both y not o or u could be used as i. The first two m squiggles are the same I've tried versions with u, n etc still
with no luck.
Sa----es - possibly Sarvices
adinged - definately an i but I think the meaning must be adjudged with the n as u instead
Saveharmles - something meaning save harmless seems most likely? -----stomable maybe _anstomable or _austomable looks a bit like
caustomable
mann - think he either meant to write manner and missed off the end of the word or short for manuscript either works in context.
_rt_le - article Yes
A_ ions looks like Aaions which does not help at all may be Acions for Actions.

So some progress. I am greatly enjoying the debate surrounding these leases.

A couple of little things I noticed:
In visitations of Devon
1) Pawlett line: 4 generations back
Lora d. of Will Kellaway of Rockbourne co. Southampton Knt married Amias Pawlett. (That sorts the County)
2) Cooke line: 2 generation back William Cooke married Mary d. and coh. of John Kellaway of Collumpton and Jane his wife d. and coh. of Fredrouffe & Trogartyn of Bremwell co. Cornwall (this is the one in the Will 1530/1) 3) Drake line: 4 generations back John Drake married Agnes d. John Kellaway (This is the one 1547 lease)
My immediate reaction was that they could not be the same John, then I started to wonder when I read the Will Just thinking the Will mentions the children George, Mary, Ann, Elizabeth, Mary, Catherine, Florence, Agnes (8 children at least spanning what 20 years?) In 1531 none was married by my reading of things. Since Gilbert son of John and Agnes was clearly an adult in 1547 we must be talking of a
different Agnes than the daughter of John and Jane.
The Will mentions John Smythe, John Edmandes of Cullompton, John Drake & Robert Hone all names in the 1528 Lease. Also Simon of Cullompton his Cousin also found in 1528 Lease Agnes and Lora look like contemporaries. Did Sir William 1440 - 1507 (guessing Lora's Father) have a brother John who had a daughter Agnes and perhaps Simon or John of Cullumpton? Is there another brother who had
children? We just need to make Simon and John some kind of cousins.

Oh dear I'm getting myself confused now. But I think Agnes is not John of Cullompton's daughter. Back to the experts!
Lesley

From: Sherrill Williams
Sent: May 4, 2006
Subject: Rockbourne Cullompton link

Lesley,
The word is definitely "muniments" used in that context. Muniments are a collection of documents relating to a property, which are passed on to each owner over time. If one is lucky to find a set of these, it is wonderful. You have seen us referring to the Coker Court Muniments which gave us much on the early history of the Dorset C/Ks - including a 1308 will of John Calowe.
(1) Lora C/K who married Amias Paulett belongs to the Rockborne clan. We know all about this. Well documented.
(2) The name is Tredrouffe, Joan's ancestor.
(3) I am of the opinion that John of Cullompton was married twice; thus Agnes is a product of the first marriage. John C/K gave John Drake a prominent part in the settlement of his estate. Thus I feel certain that his Agnes married Drake. I believe the Lyte's erred in chosing Agnes of Cullompton, for reasons I mentioned in a note yesterday (did you receive that?).

I am in the process of preparing a "biography" of John of Cullompton, using the few records available on him. I believe that will clarify a few things. You will receive this in a few days.
Sherrill

From: Sherrill Williams
Sent: May 4, 2006
Subject: John C/K of Cullompton, Devon - Part I

Hello friends,
I have decided to prepare something presentable for Kellchat about John of Cullompton. So, the first part comes to you as an attachment. It will take me a bit to re-shuffle my papers into chronological order to complete this task. I will send the second part in a day or two. I hope this will help everyone put John of Cullompton in perspective, as we attempt to figure out who his father might be.
Sherrill

John Kayleway of Cullompton, Devon 

            John’s name is spelled so variously in the documents available regarding him that we will just brand him C/K for convenience in conveying this record of his life.

            John was certainly a man of some importance and of serious wealth, which makes it so odd that little is recorded about him. One gathers that he was once the “patron” of St Andrews Church in Cullompton (his relative Simon C/K is later shown to be the patron), but no record has survived to totally prove this.  John C/K is a “forgotten man” at St Andrew’s church.  One reason may be that his contemporary, John Lane, overshadowed John C/K and other earlier supporters of this church, by building onto the church the “Lane Aisle.” The Lane Aisle is quite beautiful and deserving of the attention it gets in the literature about Cullompton parish and its church members are very proud of it. But, forgotten is the earlier Moore Aisle/Chapel, created by the important early Moore family, where members of that family are buried. Several sources indicate that our John C/K of Cullompton is also buried in this chapel.  No one living today is aware of that, nor are they aware of who John C/K was.

            When our research team re-visited this church in 2003, I purchased at the bookstall in the church a small booklet about the Moore Family, written by Roy Blackmore. Mr. Blackmore did not mention our John C/K either. After several attempts to locate Mr. Blackmore, Google offered him up via his website. I contacted him and told him all about our John C/K of Cullompton, and he was amazed to say the least. He was totally unaware of the existence of our John, let alone that he was buried in the Moore Chapel.

            We have no valid birth year for John C/K. We have several death dates for him, from three sources. Two were reciting the plaque at his tomb; the other was stated on the Inq P M.  Our sources for the burial memorial are as follows:

1.  Published in the Transactions of the Devonshire Association, 1910 is a copy of a paper read when the association met at St Andrews, Cullompton on 27 July 1910. He gives the following information from the plaque: “John Kaleway died 29 February, 1530-31

2.  An article published in Devon Notes and Queries about John Lane, who built the Lane Chapel at St Andrew’s Church says: “Lane’s will dated 3 Feb 1528 and proved PCC 5 April 1529 contains the following ‘ my tenement in Cullompton which I lately bought of John Eye, now occupied by John Pytt, wherein Humphrey More, Esq., John Smyth, Thomas Waryn and George Cockeram stand enfeoffed, shall go to the holding of the priest in The New Chapel of Our Lady aforesaid, as also such leases and estates as I have of the prior of St Nicholas (Exeter) for tilling which I have for a period of twenty six years in reversion after John Kaleway, gentleman, sixteen years of which have yet to come. Lane named as General Supervisor of his will Master Humphrey More, Esq.

            Humphrey More was the ten head of that ancient family of More-Hayes, Cullompton; he married Agnes, daughter of Sir Lewis Pollard, Justice of the Common Pleas of Bishop’s Nympton. His gravestone is in the More Chantry – [gives inscription on gravestone]. Their arms, Ermine, on a chevron azure, three cinquefoils or.  The Cockerhams (George was named an overseer of the will) were a reputable family found in the Visitation, 1620. Inscribed gravestones occur to them in the church; their arms, Argent, on a bend sable, three leopard’s heads of the field.  John Kaleway was of the old and wide-spreading family of that name, a branch of which was located near, and with great probability was the John who married Joan, the daughter of John Tregarthin of Cornwall, by whom she had fourteen children, and secondly she wedded John Wadham of Merifield, Ilton, Somerset and Edge, Branscomb, by whom she had six more, one being Nicholas Wadham, the Founder of Wadham College, Oxford, “a virtuous and antient gentlewoman,” who was buried at Branscomb, 1581. A John Kaleway, without local description, but apparently the same, made his will 13 Feb. 1530; in it he names his wife, and gives to ‘the lights of the church of Cullompton twenty pence,’ and Dr. Oliver notes his gravestone as being in the church inscribed, ob. 24 Feb, 1530. The arms of this branch, Argent, within a bordure engrailed sable, two glazier’s irons in saltire of the second, between four pears pendant or, and vert. He appears to have survived Lane two years only, when the priest who officiated in his Chapel succeeded to the emoluments accruing from the ‘tenements, leases, and estates,’ bequeathed him in the Founders will.” 

            Please refer to the will of John C/K of Cullompton that Bruce passed around a few days ago, while trying to follow this discussion. (Also on KellChat dated March 8, 2005) The two dates of death for John C/K from his tomb reflect only the misreading of 4 for a 9 or viz a viz. If Joan had fourteen children by John C/K, the most of them did not survive infancy or young childhood.

            It is my personal opinion that John C/K had a first wife. The following item from the Patent Rolls may hold the clue.

            In 1548, after the dissolution, John Whytehorne and John Bayly of Charde, Somerset, paid 1907l. 19s. 9 1/2d. in the Augmentations for a number of chantry lands, etc. One of these grants appears to show us another wife of John C/K of Cullompton.

            “And whereas Thomas, formerly abbot, and the convent of Bukland, Devon, by indenture dated 30 Aug 9 Henry VII [1494], granted to Henry Slade of Culumpton, Devon, the reversion of three mills in Columpton with the multure of the tenants there, and the space of 8 feet on either side of the mill race, then in the tenure of John Kelwey and Elizabeth his wife (for term of the life of the said Elizabeth), for 80 years from the conclusion of the tenure of the said Elizabeth, at 66s.8d. rent, payable quarterly; which Elizabeth died at Colompton 24 June 3 Henry VIII [1512]; and whereas the said abbot and convent by another indenture granted the said Slade lands in Blackewyll within Colompton parish, for a term of years as yet not expired, at 41s. rent payable quarterly; and whereas the said Slade, by will, gave to Nicholas Kyrkeham and others his estate and terms in these premises with the intention that they should find a priest to celebrate in the New Guild in Colompton; and whereas William Peers, by will, gave the wardens and parishioners of Assheprynton his estate and term of years in a messuage and lands (18 ac.) there now in tenure of John Forde for the maintainance of an anniversary in the church there.” [Calendar of Patent Rolls 2 Edward VI – Part 1] 

            We have to wonder at the date the next item occurred.  It was also in 1512, the date of “wife Elizabeth’s death” that John C/K of Cullompton was appointed by Katherine Courtenay, countess of Devon, and others, to the office of receiver & surveyor of the lands of Edward Courtenay, late earl of Devon in the counties of Cornwall, Devon, Somerset, Dorset and Berks. In the records of Cornwall we do find John C/K acting on behalf of Lady Courtenay, sometimes referred to as her “steward.” [Cornwall Military Surveys].

Stay tuned for Part 2.
Sherrill

From: Warwick Kellaway
Sent: May 4, 2006
Subject: John C/K of Cullompton, Devon - Part I

Sherrill

That is a very professional learned treatise. Very well done. John is at last starting to emerge. We can only anticipate part 2.

I would agree that your research does indicate an earlier marriage, presumably Elizabeth, and indeed she very likely was the mother of the "first" Agnes. Thus there could have been a second Agnes to marry Mr Lyte, without need to mention the first, as the case with the two Marys, who were full sisters.

If Elizabeth died in 1512, that would still give Joan the opportunity to produce 14 children in the 18 years before 1530. None of whom would have been very old when John died, but still desirable heiresses. Agnes No 1 could have been around 30 when her father died, and may have been married for several years.

Warwick

Lesley: There were a couple of earlier related Johns. One born about
1448, descended from a couple of earlier Johns, and a cousin of William, but he does not seem to have survived long, and was the last of the line. The other, as you suggest, a probable half brother of Sir William, and he had a daughter Agnes. But she married Thomas Pomeray, somewhere around 1475.

From: Bruce Callaway
Sent: May 5, 2006
Subject:  Simon Kelway of Collumpton       

             Sherrill, in her interesting Part 1 of John Kayleway ofCollumpton wrote:

            John’s name is spelled so variously in the documents available regarding him that we will just brand him C/K for convenience in conveying this record of his life. 

Having noted that Roy Blackmore referred to him as Kelway, I decided to do a bit of 'googling ', and came upon an article entitled The Personnel and Practice of Medicine in Tudor and Stuart England Part 1 The Provinces by R.S. Roberts 

http://www.pubmedcentral.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1034759 

It runs to 20 pages which I suggest that you may leave for a rainy day or perhaps read only pages 364 to 374 which can be pulled up in Pdf format. Whilst my interest in it was somewhat biased towards my former occupation, I was struck by the following references to Collumpton and the 'Family' which I will attempt to paraphrase in case it is not a rainy day where you are! 

"A study of local wills and records in Devon reveals Simon Kelway of Collumpton who may have been an expert if empirical physician. Kelway for example wrote a book in English on treatment of the plague and included recipes for other common complaints and explanations of medical weights and measures [20].

Francis Kelway son of Simon Kelway took out a licence as a surgeon in 1613, although as a gentleman he had been at Oxford and presumably appreciated the 'French books of Physic and Surgery' which his father left him in 1623 [17]"

The Physician Thomas Edwards accused a colleague John Wooton (son of the Bishop of Exeter) of libel. Wooton criticised Edwards for excessive bleeding and purging of Sir William Courtnay Jnr., who had ridden to Collumpton to take the advice of Simon Kelway, physician who was away at the time. Sir William died in 1605 and the matter ended up in the Star Chamber as Wooton pursued Edwards stating that his methods were so dangerous that many of his patients had either miserably perished or were endangered and Edwards had challenged Wooton to a duel!

Wooton obtained heresay evidence from Simon Kelway 'practitioner in physic and surgery' of Collumpton, who had been heard to say that Edwards was a "bloody apothecary" (That's my boy!) and had taken from divers persons more blood than any man of knowlege would have done" [118] 

[17]  Principle Probate Registry Perrogative Court Canterbury,Swann 63 (1623)

[20]  'A Defensive against the Plague' London John Windet 1593

[75]  E.D.R.,Req.Episc.Acts,1610-29,f.113

[118]Star Chamber,op.cit.,ff51 and 52 

You are welcome to read the rest of the article if you are at all interested to find the outcome, but the conclusion that I believe we may come to is that the Simon, "cousin" of John of Collumpton who inherited from his will in 1530, subsequently remained in Collumpton and had progeny who adopted the Kelway spelling. 

Bruce
From: Warwick Kellaway
Sent: May 5, 2006
Subject: Simon Kelway of Collumpton

Well done Bruce.

 
We are moving another few steps forward.
One small problem there.  Bearing in mind your comments about Collumpton John himself, I think your Medical Simon would have been the son of the will Simon, or he would have been a considerable age when he died in 1623 - somewhere around 120 - I suggest we have his son Simon.  No problem however, as we also have grandson Francis - probably named after the ratbag Rockbourne Francis.
Could I suggest some ages:    Simon 1 born c1510, Simon 2 c 1540-1623, Francis c 1570.  Unless these boys produced their offspring rather late, it also looks as though there might have been even one more generation in there?  (Note Francis only "qualified" in 1613.)
Now can we roll on from Francis?  It would be good.  The family obviously made use of their inheritance to get a good education, and unfortunately may have moved from Cullompton to London, or somewhere.  Were there any direct descendants?
I have written to Richard and Cathy Callaway in Cullompton.  It is just possible they know something there.  Certainly in recent times.  (I am curious also about the change in spelling from Kelway.)
 
Interesting times just now.  I am having a another look/think about that Lyme Regis family - they seem to have some similarities/connections with the IOW, Alderney, and Dorset families - but I cannot see where. The spelling and Somerset say no, but the mariner, innkeeper, stonemason and Christian names - maybe.  Perhaps they just knew each other.
 
The Tongan earthquake was a panic set up here by the BBC and CNN - nowhere near us, and no tsunami - but unfortunately our CD people did not kill it quickly enough.  Good lesson.
(None of these recipients probably have heard of our "Telecom" problem, but it is about time they were sorted out.  Have held the country to ransom for years.  The stupid government sold off our telecommunications/telephone system years ago, for peanuts, and it has just got worse and worse.)
 
Warwick

From: Sherrill Williams
Sent: May 5, 2006
Subject: John C/K of Cullompton, Devon - Part I

I am not ready to give John of Cullompton 2 daughters, Agnes. The only document we have to deduct from is John of Cullompton's will. He mentioned 2 daughters named Mary, but only one 1 named Agnes. Since John Drake was appointed as one of the executors of his
estate, I suspect one Mary was already married to Drake when the will documents were prepared. That was probably "Mary th'elder." We must take care in deciding which John Drake is married to Mary C/K.

One thing about which I have always been curious is, why did John C/K leave ten pounds to "eight heirs of blood" of Thomas Moys sometime of Colehouse in the parish of Brodwode Kelleigh.....to help his heirs purchase land??

I will be back in a day or so with another installment.
Sherrill

From: Sherrill Williams
Sent: May 5, 2006
Subject: Simon Kelway of Collumpton

Everyone should go to Kellchat and refresh yourselves on the Simons. I believe this discussion came up when David Scott gave us the "Simon letter." I seem to remember that it was the descendants of Francis who remained at Cullompton; also sometimes at Colyton. I will confirm this soon as we get John C/K of Cullompton confirmed and returned to his resting place at St Andrew's church.
Sherrill

From: Bruce Callaway
Sent: May 6, 2006
Subject: John C/K of Cullompton, Devon - Part I

Clearly John of Collumpton was a Merchant of the Staple. That means that he had rights to export and import wool between England and Calais in France. Very few persons were granted this. Collumpton in Devon was foremost in the manufacture of cloth as a result of this, because they had mills run by water as indicated in the attached. Although a member of the C/K family (relationship undefined) he was obviously making so much money (and producing so many children with his liaison with his second wife) that he never bothered with with his close rels, and their propensity to flirt with the monarchy bearing their COAs.

 
  Having possibly been disappointed with his mass production of Daughters by his second (and most famous) wife, he specifically willed money to Simon K/C in order that Simon could also become a Merchant of the Staple, died and was interred in the church of St. Andrews in Collumpton. Simon, variously described as his 'cousin', 'servant', and in various subsequent documents as 'son', grandson' etc., remained in and by Collumpton producing sons and Grandsons who adopted the early role of Physician and Surgeons, the Grandson at least having attended Oxford at a time that Robert of the Wards and Liveries was making his place in history.
 
I believe that you all have done well for this particular 'Tribe' of the C/Ks, the most recorded in history. The I's are being dotted, but I also believe that we are making a refinement to recorded history not heretofore correlated, and I urge continuation even though we can as yet make no link via paper trails, or the new fangled DNA studies. Sherrill William's work is a brilliant life time study I think you will all agree, and is not only providing us with a lot of "fun", angst and diversion, but the basis for study long after we, like the ancestors, inevitably 'Shuffle off' the planet!
 
Thought for the night. 
Bruce
From: Warwick Kellaway
Sent: May 6, 2006
Subject: John C/K of Cullompton, Devon - Part I

Bruce 

I think you have provided a very good summary of this story.  We do seem to be getting just that little closer to resolving the puzzle.
Please note also that Dewlish appears in two other respects.  Firstly there was a gaggle of family members living in the manorhouse there, and nearby, around 1525-45 (including a Peter).  They appear to have included merchants or similar.  Also we have the young Thomas C/K, who went from Dewlish to the Isle of Wight, about 1545, the same time.
Not far away was Nicholas of Forston/Charminster.
What puzzled me though was that they seemed to disappear by/after the 1600s.
 
Warwick
 
(I have had a late thought.  Wasn't Calais lost about 1545?  What did that mean for merchants of the Staple?)

From: Sherrill Williams
Sent: May 6, 2006
Subject: Simon Kelway of Collumpton

The Moore chapel/aisle is on the opposite side of the church, in the front (looking from the entry) on the left. It is a much smaller area, no doubt where the Moore family had seating. It is perfect for a "junk room" (which it appears to be used for)in a church stressed for space. The first time we visited it was a Sunday. They were having 2 services, and we got in between the 2. There was quite a crowd of people milling around. This is an active church, unlike many we visited. Cullompton was the center of a thriving cloth industry and the important traders were living there. John Lane was one, George Cockerham (with whom Simon was later associated), our John C/K and others. In
reading on in the articles I photocopied I learn that George Cockerham and other important people were also buried in the Moore chapel. I now suspect that John C/K named his little son, George, for George Cockerham, since we have detected no use of the name George in the C/K records of this era. The Lane aisle was an addition built on to the church. Lane had no children and apparently bequeathed all his assets to this church. The Moore chapel was an area set aside, apparently for the use of the Moore family, of the existing church. When Roy complained to the Vicar and Archdeacon about the memorials to the Moore family being covered up, he had no idea that the history of this parish was also covered up in his family's chapel. It was the contributions of these wealthy cloth merchants that made this church successful, and no one knows their names today. Sad!
Sherrill

From: Sherrill Williams
Sent: May 8, 2006
Subject: John C/K of Cullompton, Devon - Part II

Good morning, friends. At last I have completed the typing and proofreading of Part 2 of John of Cullompton. It will be attached, if I don't forget to attach it!
But first, I found a little item that may be of interest. I do not know the source of this item (Pat?) but it is from a published source, entitled
"Correction and Addition To the 'Notes On The Manors and Bartons of Roborough, North Devon,'" by May F. C. (Mrs. Bruce) Oliver):
"Through the kindness of Commander Messenger I am able to make a correction in the notes on the Manors and Bartons of Roborough.
The carving on a bench end described as the 'water bougets' of the Bourchiers are the arms of the Kaleway or Kelloway family:-Ar. two grossing irons in saltire sa. between four pears. Both Prince and Risdon record that Thomas, son of William Kelloway, gave Stofford in
Dolton, to his younger son Phillip, late in the reign of Henry III, and whose posterity assumed the name of Stowford or, as it later became, Stafford 'and continued in worshipful degree unto this day.' Their descent was from father to son unto Robert Stowford whose only daughter and heiress carried most of the inheritance, the Barton of Stowford with some other land excepted yet remaining in this name, in marriage to the Wise family late of Sydenham.
Stafford Barton in Risdon's time was possessed by Thomas Stafford who married a daughter of Cary of Clovelly. Their son married Elizabeth Davy of Upcott, and their grandson John married Mary Wollocombe, whose son, Roger married Catherine Longford, and took the name and arms of Wollocombe. Their daughter died s.p. and Thomas the second son succeeded his brother, and also took the name of Woollocombe. Prince wrote that the male heir of this house of Stafford was in his time John Stafford of Stafford who in 1717 assumed the name and arms of Wollocombe.
After the above notes were in the editor's hands, I found in a copy of the Western Antiquary dated 1884-85 a letter from Mr. Whitmarsh who paid a short visit to Roborough about this time. He mentions that there were several carved bench ends in the church at the time,
but gave a list of six only,...." [this ends with a comma; next page not copied.]
Figure this out.
Sherrill
 

Part 2.  John C/K of Cullompton, Devon

           

In the preceding reference from the Patent Rolls the property involving John’s wife Elizabeth may have been “Kingsmill” [Kings Mill, today]. I believe John of Cullompton lived there. Simon C/K did live there; according to his will his house was at Kingsmill.

            The meeting of the Devonshire Association held in Cullompton on July 27, 1910 was an important meeting. Not only did Chalke read an interesting paper on St. Andrew’s Church, but Murray T. Foster read a paper, “A Short History of Collumpton.*  He makes no mention of John C/K of Cullompton, but he did give a vague description of ‘Kingsmill’ – “located three quarters of a mile N.E. [of Cullompton?], belonged to Walrond, but now belongs to F. Sellwood, Esq.  John Lane, the donor of Lane’s Aisle in Collumpton Church, was born there, and Justice John Pratt also lived there.”  [Foster’s footnote * “Collumpton is advisedly so spelt by the author of this paper.”].  A site on the web about Cullompton manors, referring to Kingsmill, adds this further information – “situated just under two miles to the northeast, this house, which shows traces of early work, once belonged to the Walronds of Bradfield.”

            If I interpret the Whitehorn/Bayley lease correctly, this property was a mill with a specified amount of land surrounding it. It had been held for a term of years of the life of Elizabeth, wife of John C/K, with certain years remaining when Elizabeth died in 1512, which caused the term of years to expire. It was then turned over to Slade.  Was this property held “in right of Elizabeth,” wife of John C/K, implying that the property came from her family?  Whose daughter was she?

            Sometime after the death of Elizabeth, John of Cullompton married his second wife, Joan Tregarthan [Tregarthyn, etc.].  The marriage probably occurred by 1515 when there was a suit – Amice Paulet &c. vs John Kaylewey & Joan his wife, involving 3 messuages & lands in Corf. Wareham & Brenscomb [Dorset Recoveries].

Another record involves Joan and her sister, Margaret.   From the Trevelyan papers, Somerset Record Office – Bundle 6. 2/6/2

  Award of Richard Elyot, justice of assize between (1) Thos., Geo., Humphrey & John Trevelyan and (2) John Kaylewaye & Joan his wife & Geo. Tanner & Margaret his wife – concerning land at Grampound, Cornwall, sometimes belonging to Robt. Chamberlayn. The land was settled on the Trevelyans with a remainder to Kaylewaye & Tanner. 28 Aug 1518.

            Margaret was the younger sister of Joan Tregarthyn and was mentioned in the will of  John C/K of Cullompton.  She was married to Nicholas Ascheford by then.  However, John C/K made a bequest in his will “To find a priest for John Tanner’s chantry in Collompton church, L4; this is to discharge William Huntingdon of his debt of L3.10s. to that chantry” which may be relevant.

            Jane Tregarthyn was the daughter of John Tregarthan and Jane Trederuff (who was daughter of  Sir John Trederuff and Elizabeth Courtney). John Tregarthyn pre-deceased his father, Thomas Tregarthyn, whose wife was Margaret Hendour (daughter of  Richard  Hendour and his wife, Katherine Chamberlayne). Thus, Joan and Margaret became heiresses of  both their father, John, and their grandfather, Thomas Tregarthyn.  

            The Inquisition Post Mortem of John Tregarthyn was commissioned on 24 March 1503/04 [Chancery Inq.p.m. Ser. II Vol. 18 (8).]

Cornwall

Inquisition taken at Launceston 20 November [1504] before Peter Eggecombe, knt., Roger Holand and William Trevannon, Esq. commissioners of the King, by virtue of them directed by the oath of John (illegible). John Trelawney, Richard Coode, Richard Langdon, Thomas Pensillan, Esq., Robert Langdon, John Merefilde, Thomas Skelton, Thomas Uppecote, Robert Olyver, Thomas Bonethyn & John Menkenion: Who Say that John Tregarthyn, son & heir of Thomas Tregarthyn, the day he died was seised of the reversion of the manor of Branayle in his demesne as of fee & died thereof seised. And that the said manor was held of the King as of his Honor and Castle of Launceston & was worth yearly, in all issues, beyond reprisals, L12.

(No death date given)

            Joan Tregarthyn aged 5 years & more and Margaret Tregarthyn aged one year & more, are his daughters and heirs. 

            The Inquisition Post Mortem of Thomas Tregarthyn [Chancery Inq. p. m. Ser. II, Vol. 23 (314) has no writ. It was taken at [illegible] co. Cornwall, 1 April [1509] before the King’s Escheator there, to enquire after the death of Thomas Tregarthyn. The jurors [the names mostly illegible] say that on oath the said Thomas was seised of and in the manor of Tregarthyn and of a messuage and lands [acreage given] in Tregarthyn, Pollacke, Tretalsvoys and [illegible].

            By charter dated 5 March 1505/6 he enfeoffed Robert Wyllughby, Lord Broke, Robert Scheffeld, Richard Coryngton of the same to the uses of his last will and by his last will desired the said feoffees to demise the said manor & premises to a certain John Chamond, for life, with contingent remainders to Thomas Chamond, son of said John by Margaret his late wife, daughter of the said Thomas Tregarthyn, in tail male, to the heirs male of a certain Joan Poyle, widow, to the heirs male of Phillipa wife of Richard Hore, to the right heirs of Thomas Tregarthyn aforesaid forever.

            By virtue whereof the said feoffees were seised of the same

            By charter dated 8 March [1508/9]  the said feoffees conveyed the said premises to John Chamound, with contingent remainders as before expressed, whereby the said John Chamound was thereof seised.

            The said manor and premises are held of Lord Henry Stafford & Cecily his wife, daughter & heir of Lord Bonvyle as of their manor of Trewardreth in the said County, in right of said Cecily & the same is worth yearly L3.

            The said Thomas was also seised of 30 messuages and lands [acreage given] in Kystalsyns, Tresuswal, Tururburgh, Stretkenwyn, Bellyche, Newham, Oxeforth Park, Bodynyell, Tregony, Tadyporth by Rekebyn, Trelegmere, Kestell, Tregasek, Warth, Travarek & Bodmyn.

            By charter dated 1 April [1505/6] he granted the same to his daughters Joan…..(widow), Margaret wife of John Chamond & Philippa, wife of Richard Hore & their issue.

            The premises in Kystelsyns are held of Sir Nicholas Vaus, knt., & Sir Robert Borbet, knt., as of their manor of Clerky in said county by fealty & rent of 3s.6d.

            The premises of Bellyche are held of Reginald Sayre by one barley corn but by what service the jury are ignorant of.  The premises in Tresuswell are held of the Bishop of Exeter as of his manor of Penryn by fealty & the annual rent of 2s.3d., those in Newham are held of William Trevanyon, as of his manor of Newham by what service the jury know not.

            The premises in Trelegmere are held of the Abbot of Beaulieu as of his manor of ______gregenan [partially illegible] by an annual rent of 6s.  Those in Kestell are held of Richard Whitlegh, Esq. as of his manor of Helygan Pomeray, in burgage by fealty only; those in Bodynyell & Bodmyn of Thomas, Prior of Bodmyn by what service the jury know not; those in Tregasek & Warthe of Sir Peter Eggecomb, knt., of his manor of Bodrugan by knight’s service & an annual rent of 3s.4d.; those in Trevarek of Thomas Prior of ________ [Bodmin?] as of his manor of Trevenon by what service the jury know not & the said premises are worth by the year, clear, L6.

            The premises in Truruburgh are held of Sir Peter Eggecombe, knt, & others in free burgage & those in Stretkenwyn of William Trevanyon, Esq., as of his manor of Newham by what service the jury know not & are worth by the year, 10s. And Oxeforth Park is held of the King as of his Duchy of Cornwall in socage by fealty only.

            The said Thomas was also seised of lands in Treghmelyon & in Pelscoyth by Lostwythiell & elsewhere [illegible].

            By charter dated 10 April [1504] he enfeoffed John Archer & Roger Trenowyth, chaplains to the use of Richard Whitlegh, Esq. & Mary his wife, for the term of their lives, with contingent remainders to Margaret, late the wife of John Chamound & her issue, to Joan Poyle, widow & her issue, to Philippa wife of Richard Hore & her issue to [the tenures are illegible].

            He was also seised of other lands [names illegible] with reversion to Joan & Margaret Tregarthyn, daughters of John, son of said Thomas.

            The jurors say that a certain Margaret, daughter of Richard Hendour, was seised of the manor of Branoll [sic Branell] with the advowson of the church of St. Stephens belonging to the said manor & lands there & in [illegible] & thus seised took to husband the said Thomas Tregarthyn & had issue by him, John, who died ………. 15 Henry VII, after whose death, Thomas was seised of the same as tenant. John the son had issue Joan & Margaret Tregarthyn. John died & the reversion of the said manor & advowson after the death of Thomas belongs to Joan & Margaret, daughters & heirs of John.

            The said manor & advowson are held of the King, as of his Castle of Launceston, parcel of the Duchy of Cornwall, & are worth by the year, clear, L10.

            John died 5 January [1502/3].

            Thomas died 6 March [1508/9] & Joan & Margaret daughters of John, son of Thomas, are his next heirs, & in like manner heirs of said Margaret, daughter of Richard Hender; Joan is aged 10 years & Margaret 6 years. 

Inquisition Post Mortem, Thomas Tregarthyn [Chancery Inq. p. m. Ser II. Vol. 79 (211)

Devon

Delivered into court 13 May by William G[yfford].

Inquisition taken at Exeter 10 May [1512], before Philip Courtenay, escheator, by the oath of John Myleton, esq., Nicholas Flemmyng, Thomas Thatcher, John Frawncis, John Lywyngton, Robert Hoker, John Rede, John More, Oliver Wylby, Robert Myllar, John Roke, John Mannyng, John att Fen, John Hyll: Who say that Margaret daughter and heir of Richard Hendour was seised of a moiety of the manor of Westportlomouth, and 10 messuages, 200 acres of arable and pasture, 20 of meadow, 20 of wood, 1 watermill and 3s. rent there; the moiety of the fee-farm of the borough of Maleburgh: - all held of Nicholas Wadham, knt., of his manor of Hurberton, by 1/2 a knight’s fee; worth by the year, clear L6. 

            Margaret Hendour married Thomas Tregarthyn and they had issue John.

            Margaret died 14 April [1500]

            John Tregarthyn had 2 daughters, Joan and Margaret. He died and the reversion of the lands belonged to them after the death of Thomas Tregarthyn.

            John died 5 Jan [1502/03].

            Thomas Tregarthyn died 6 March [1508/09].

            Next heirs, the said Joan, aged 13, and Margaret, aged 9.

[Note: the above abstracts of the Inq. p. m. were taken from transcripts of the abstracts of the records in the collection of the Devon and Cornwall Record Society, West Country Studies Library, Exeter, Devon.] 

            The above records suggest that Joan and Margaret Tregarthyn would be very good marriage prospects. John C/K of Cullompton married Joan Tregarthyn by 1515, when she was quite a young girl. Legend says that she bore him 14 children before John died in 1530/31. We have no way of proving that legend. 

            The Land Owner’s Assessment, 1524/5, Cullompton, Devon shows the extent of the land holdings of John Kayleway. He was far and above the largest land owner as the following value assessment indicates:

            John Kaylway                L 66 2/3

            Henry Harward   L 1

            Ann Wayulsshe L 2

            Henry Drewe                  L 2

            Nicholas Helman            L 1 

            The Inquisition Post Mortem (from the same source cited above) is filed as Chancery Inq. p. m. Ser. II. Vol. 52 (29): 

Delivered into Court 23 Oct. by Thomas Sydenham of the Temple.

Devon

Inquisition taken at Exeter 4 Oct [1531] before John Hext, esq. escheator, after the death of John Kayleway, esq., by oath of Thomas Fortesque, esq., Charles Faryndon, esq., Thomas Hext, esq., John Pomerey, esq., Roger Rous, Edward Forde, John Carssewill, John Wolston, John Godwyn, John Bobyche, Richard Langisford, John [Ju]ledon, John Bury & Thomas Goffe WHO SAY     that John Kayleway was seised of 2 messuages, 2 gardens & 4 acres of land in Colompton, held of the abbot of Buklond, in free socage, worth by the year, clear, 30s.  1 messuage, 100 acres of land, 10 of meadow, 20 of furze and heath & 3 of wood in Uplomyn, held of Henry Daubeneye, Lord Daubeneye, in free socage, worth &c. 13s. 4d.  3 messuages, 3 gardens, 200 acres of land, 20 of meadow, 500 of heath & furze in Wodecrofte, Hoggersland, Moys & Alschedowne in the parish of Brodewodekellye, held (except Alschedowne) of John Gilbert, esq., in free socage worth &c. L6. Alschedowne held of Thomas Speke, esq. in free socage worth &c. 20s.  1 messuage, 80 acres of land, 10 of meadow & 3 of wood in Nore & Whitford in the parish of Shute, held of Henry Marquis of Exeter in free socage worth &c. 13s. 4d.

            By his deed dated 25 Jan [1523/4] John Kayleway granted the premises to John Rawe, sergeant at law, John Whyting, Nicholas Aschford, Henry Walrond, Humfrey More, John Skuys, John Cruys, esq., John Drake, Robert Herone, Robert Cruys, Edward Cruys & William Turnour, to the use of the said John Kaylway & his heirs.

            John Whyting afterwards died.

            By his deed dated 10 Oct [1529] John Kaylway made his last will & therein desired that the said feoffees should hold the premises as aforesaid to his use during his life, & afterwards should hold all his lands in Cornwall, Devon, Hants & Dorset to the use of Joan his wife, for life, with remainders to George their son, the heirs of Joan; to Margaret Ascheford, sister of Joan, wife of the said Nicholas Aschford & her heirs & to the right heirs of Margaret Tregarthen late wife of Thomas Tregarthen, grandmother of said Joan, dau. & heir of Richard Hendor & Katherine his wife, dau. & heir of Robert Chamberlayne.

            After the death of John Kaylway, to wit, 28 March [1531] Joan, his widow, granted to the said feoffees [Simon Kayleway being substituted for John Whyting] all her late husband’s lands in Devon, Cornwall, Dorset & the county of the town of Southampton (except the moiety of the manor of Brannell [St. Stephens in Branell, Cornwall] & and the moiety of the advowson of the church of St. Stephen there, to the uses aforesaid.

            By deed dated 26 May [1531] the said Joan granted these moieties to the said feoffees to the same uses.

            John Kayleway died 24 Feb [1530/31]

            George, son & heir, aged 6. 

            One final item that indicates John Kayleway of Cullompton was buried in the Moore aisle at St Andrew’s Church, Cullompton was found in an “ancient” little book located at the West Country Studies Library, Exeter. It was titled “Kellway Family Misc.” – Vol. 24, p. 195.   Headed:  Devon Church – Cullompton

“In the north aisle called Moore’s aisle are several heraldic shields of the Moors of Moorehayes, impaled with Gambon, Boton, Cleivdon, Plous of Hillersdon.  Waldron lists these three on a monument –

John More, Esq.  ob. 1/4/1500

John Hill  ob. 15 July 1529

John Kaleway, Esq.  ob. 24 Feb 1530” 

            After the death of John Kayleway, his widow, Joan, married John Wadham of Ilminster, Somerset and Edge at Branscombe, Devon. By Wadham, she had additional children, one being Nicholas Wadham, the founder of Wadham College, Oxford.  That is another long story.

            Part 3 (final) will deal with the children of John C/K of Cullompton.

From: Sylvia Warham
Sent: May 8, 2006
Subject: John C/K of Cullompton, Devon - Part II

Hello Sherrill,
Thankyou for the second part of John of cullompton, which I shall take time to read carefully. The piece on Stafford is very interesting. I think I have some of the documentation on which it was based and it is interesting because it shows who was the father of whom. If it is of interest is as follows:
Lemon family of Carclew
1. SCATTERED LANDS
ST. JUST-IN-ROSELAND.
Deeds
Roscassow and Tolcarne
FILE [no title] - ref. WH/1/1563 - date: c. 1716 hit[from Scope and Content] Copy Act of Parliament to allow Roger Stafford,  esq., to change his surname to Wollocombe, according to will of Roger W.,  1706 (Roger S. being s. of Jn. Stafford of Dolton, Devon, and w. Mary,  testator's sister)
FILE [no title] - ref. WH/1/1568/1-3 - date: 14/15 Nov. 1755 hit[from Scope and Content] (1) Dennys Rolle of Hudscott, Devon, esq., (2)
Thos. Wollocombe of Roborough, esq., nephew of Roger W., deed., and Jn. W.,  s. of Thos. W., (3) Jn. Yeo of Southill, clerk, (4) Gertrude Chope of  Bideford, wid., formerly Stafford, sister of Thos. Wollocombe, (5) Thos.  Chilcott of Bath, gent., and w. Ann, formerly Wrey, (6) Rob. Stafford of  Bideford, merchant, bro. of Thos. Wollocombe, to (7) Wm. Lemon of Truro, esq.

2.SOUTH PETHERWIN.
West Petherwin, Copelland, Whitedown.
FILE [no title] - ref. PP/651 - date: 10 June 1612 hit[from Scope and Content] (1) Sir. Thos. Wise and lady Mary his w., dau. of  Rob. Stafford of Stafford, Devon, esq., to (2) Wm. Bligh of South Petherwin,  esq.

3.Rashleigh family of Menabilly
PERSONAL AND PRIVATE.
PROBATE AND TESTAMENTARY.
General.
FILE [no title] - ref. R/5677 - date: 1681-1757 hit[from Scope and Content] Documents relating to property in  Woollacombe, Devon, the inheritance of Roger Stafford

Wollocombe family of Bridestowe, Devon [from Scope and Content] 189M together with its five additional deposits  189M-1 to 189M-5 form a collection of estate and family records, dating from the 13th to the 20th century, of a branch of a minor gentry family which traces its origins to Morthoe in North Devon at least as early as the 12th century, with subsequent settlement at Combe in Roborough, near Torrington.
This branch settled at Bidlake, Bridestowe, in the 18th century on the marriage of Thomas Stafford Wollocombe (1742-1814), third son of Thomas Wollocombe of Roborough, to Mary Hiern, the heir to the Bidlake properties through her mother, Elizabeth Bidlake. The estate included property in some other parishes in Devon and Cornwall but was fairly small. It was centred on Bidlake and Bridestowe and the material in the collection relating to the Bidlake family and property is particularly interesting including surveys, rentals and other family and estate papers and correspondence dating from the 17th and 18th century; papers, 1640-1658, relating to Henry Bidlake's activities in their Civil War on the royalist side (in particular, the siege of Pendennis Castle and the sequestration of Bidlake's properties by parliament), and documents, 1733-c.1787, concerning the fraudulent claim by a Richard Becklake to the Bidlake estate. There is also the rare survival of a
group of early 17th century plans of Bridestowe and the Bidlake properties.

4.LEASES
Devon
St Giles in the Wood
FILE [no title] - ref. 189M-1/L30 - date: 24 June 1723
hit[from Scope and Content] 3. John Stafford
FILE [no title] - ref. 189M-1/L31 - date: 25 May 1726
hit[from Scope and Content] 3. John Stafford
FILE [no title] - ref. 189M-1/L32-33 - date: 1 Sept. 1731
hit[from Scope and Content] 3. John Stafford
FILE [no title] - ref. 189M-1/L34 - date: 1 Sept. 1731
hit[from Scope and Content] 3. John Stafford
Instow
FILE [no title] - ref. 189M-1/L44 - date: 23 Sept. 1701
hit[from Scope and Content] 1. Thomas Stafford of Beaford

As you will see, there are many Cornish connections, which makes me wonder if the Kellaway owned properties that I have found in this area were originally from the Launceston/Looe Cornish family - it is something I am working on.

Kindest regards
Sylvia Warham

From: Warwick Kellaway
Sent: May 9, 2006
Subject: John C/K of Cullompton, Devon - Part II

Good morning Sherrill,
A monumental effort on John. We are moving from knowing nothing about him, to getting a very full description. Certainly of his own family, if not yet his parents and forebears.

Perhaps though your "little item of interest" may be even more valuable. I had always wondered why Roborough had been referred to in information on family arms etc, and it seems there was/is more there. Evidently evidence in the Church, as in Dolton Church.

Probably I should have realised before, but I am also starting to understand the meaning of Barton or, as Sylvia has suggested, Beare. It is a manorhouse? (OE/Saxon word?) So we have Stowford/Stafford Barton/Beare, and the earlier Mokesbeare. (So who or what was Moke?)

Am also seeing more meaning in the several Stoford/Stowfords around Wessex. They are not necessarily only geographical descriptions, as we understood. (Perhaps they were geographical, but became adopted by the
family?)
Stafford Barton was presumably originally Stowford. We have another Stowford near Launceston, and Lifton. Then Stoford near Sutton Bingham in Dorset, and what about Stoford near Wilton and Bapton in Wiltshire? Did the family take their placename with them? Which was first? We don't yet know anything about the Launceston Stowford.

There seems confirmation that the C/K arrived at Dolton and Roborough, and possibly built Stafford Barton, around 1260-70. The reference to William, his son Thomas, and "younger" son Philip, matches other scattered information. We could guess that William was the William recorded at Mukelsber/Mokesbeare in the 1230s - perhaps born around 1190. His son Thomas born around 1215, and Philip around 1240. (The name Philip matched the name of our 1165 Philip, husband of Hawisa, and continued into the 1500s.) The similarity of the names of William and Thomas in Wiltshire at the time, suggest they had a number of properties around England. We cannot be sure whether the Durham Thomas was also linked there.

The Devon Pedigrees gave continuous Devon family succession (without
dates) from that period, and the names Philip and Thomas alternate. We may even have to reconsider the origin of the Sherborne family. Perhaps somewhere around 1400 the two major branches did merge again. The reason for Edmund and Joan moving from Kellaways in Wiltshire to Chenstone manor at Chawleigh around 1390 is becoming clearer. That part of Devon was family territory in so many places. As suspected, Joan might have been a Devon cousin.

We know that senior members of the Devon family, or at least those at Dolton, gradually changed their name to Stowford and Stafford, the use of "de" Stowford being the catalyst. It is not clear from the comments how long the family descent continued. It seems that later owners of Stafford Barton might also have assumed the name Stafford, but whether they were the same bloodline or not is obscure. It seems John Stafford may have been when he assumed the name of Wollocombe in 1717 - if the family had not already "daughtered out" some time before - perhaps there was some inheritance involved? Do we know any Wollocombes today?

There were anyway the descendants of younger sons from earlier families. The Devon PRs should produce evidence of these families, most using the Stafford name, others Kelloway. In the 1500s they were at Dowland, Braunton, Ottery St Mary, and Heaton. A family in Dolton in the 1600s.

How about the Roborough bench ends?
Warwick

From: Bruce Callaway
Sent: May 9, 2006
Subject: John C/K of Cullompton, Devon - Part II

I too like Sylvia will have to study Sherrill's Part 2, however I must make a comment on two important parts of Sylvia's response

Roscassow and Tolcarne
FILE  [no title] - ref.  WH/1/1563  - date: c. 1716
hit[from Scope and Content] Copy Act of Parliament to allow Roger Stafford,
esq., to change his surname to Wollocombe, according to will of Roger W.,
1706 (Roger S. being s. of Jn. Stafford of Dolton, Devon, and w. Mary,
testator's sister)

This change of name, which we have already seen, apparently less formally done from K/C to Stowford thence Stafford is what we are currently battling with our DNA Project. Warwick of course has previously mentioned Webb, Kelly and other alias' . I believe that we have to carefully monitor Y-search as a consequence, something that I had previously tended to put on the back burner. Sylvia's second comment, not related to this, is however along lines that have niggled me for some time.

As you will see, there are many Cornish connections, which makes me wonder if > the Kellaway owned properties that I have found in this area were originally from the  Launceston/Looe Cornish family - it is something I am working on.
 
Kindest regards
Sylvia

I believe that it is possible that one of the reasons we have not been able to tie John of Cullompton to the Dorset and Hampshire tribes, is that he originally hailed from the long established Cornish tribe! He married a Cornish lass, held and inherited huge amounts of property in Cornwall and did not flash the COA. It is possible that Symon 1 had similar origins. Fascinating stuff. Thank you Sylvia.
Bruce

From: Sherrill Williams
Sent: May 9, 2006
Subject: John C/K of Cullompton, Devon - Part II

Bruce, for a long, long time I have felt that branches of our more established Devon/Dorsert/Hants family ventured off to Cornwall. I also think we must ignore the weird name spellings, because that is "Cornish speak" as their clerks recorded the name. Of course, John of Cullompton was there as he had been appointed steward of Countess Courtenay's Cornwall properties. Since Joan Tregarthyn's maternal grandmother was a Courtenay, that may have been how he hooked up with Joan. John of Cullompton did not hold lands in Cornwall by his own "right." It seems to have all been in the "right" of Joan, and he dealt with that separately in his estate documents, making certain that her sister, Margaret, got her share. John's own holdings all seem to have been in Devon. 

There is no question that 1st Simon became John's legitimate heir, when little George did not survive. How we figure out that relationship, I don't know. But, there is something about the close relationship with the Courtenay family that is puzzling. Simon is either John's "cousin" as is stated, or nephew as those terms were sometimes interchangeable. Simon ended up with the "mansion" at Kingsmill, and John gave him money to continue the business in Calais, and he also inherited the advowson of the church at Cullompton. Then later, Simon and George Cockeram get in trouble for taking money out of the kingdom. We should try to figure out who were the brothers of the 1st William knight. That is Sir John of Rockborne's father.

Going further, I do believe that the ancestry of Robert who married the widow Byfleet got lost when some of the family defected to Webb in the Salisbury area.

I agree we should be monitoring a number of DNA projects - Weston, Clark, Webb, Stafford, etc, and perhaps pay attention to those with different surnames who contact us. However, most of those with presumed matches (or null matches, if you wish) don't know enough background on their families to help much. Has anyone looked for Stafford wills (als Stafford, that is - not the old "silver hand" Humphrey Stafford clan)? If they made any wills, there could be clues there.
Ponder on!
Sherrill

From: Lesley Haigh
Sent: May 10, 2006
Subject: John C/K of Cullompton, Devon - Part II

Great job Sherrill,
Does that Wollacombe reference explain all theses leases etc of Whitesleigh? The families must have been close for years perhaps. All Devon RO. Also this 1334 ref might prove interesting.

Reference: 189M/T167 Creation dates: 1334

Scope and Content

Whitsleigh, p. S. Giles in the Wood

Reference: 189M-1/L23 Creation dates: 28 June 1557

Scope and Content Exchange

1. Alexander Wollacombe of Combe

2. Gilbert Drake of Littleham

Premises: Messuages and lands in Littleham and Exmouth conveyed by 1. to 2.

Premises as in 189M-1/L22, conveyed by 2. to 1. (4/1)

Reference: 189M-1/L24 Creation dates: 13 Apr. 1558

Scope and Content Counterpart lease for 99 years or 3 lives

1. John Wollacombe of Combe

2. John Crocker of St Giles

Premises: Three tenements in Whitesleigh (Whitsleigh), Castle Wood in Roborough and land in St Giles (4/1)

Reference: 189M-1/L25 Creation dates: 21 June 1572

Scope and Content

Quitclaim

1. George Wollacombe and Henry Wollacombe of Roborough

2. John Wollacombe of Roborough

Premises: Manor of Whitsley (Whitsleigh) and land and premises in Whitsley
(4/1)

Reference: 189M-1/L26 Creation dates: 22 Jan. 1574

Scope and Content

Feoffment

1. Robert Isacke of Eltherington (Atherington?)

2. John Wollacombe

Premises: Part of the manor of Whitsleigh (4/1)

Reference: 189M-1/L27 Creation dates: 22 Jan. 1574

Scope and Content Lease

1. Humphrey Coplestone of Yenstowe (Virginstow?)

2. John Wollacombe

Premises: All his part of the manor of Whittesleghe (Whitsleigh) and land and messuages in Whittesleghe

Reference: 189M-1/L28

Creation dates: 12 Dec. 1579

Scope and Content Assignment

1. Gilbert Drake of Littleham, son of John Drake

2. Henry Ayleston of St Giles

Premises: as in 189M-1/L20 (4/1)

Reference: 189M-1/L29 Creation dates: 2 Mar. 1596

Scope and Content Lease for 99 years or 2 lives

1. John Wollacombe

2. Matthew Crocker, Katherine his wife, and John their son

Premises: as in 189M-1/L24 (4/1)

Reference: 189M-1/L30 Creation dates: 24 June 1723

Scope and Content Lease for 99 years or 3 lives

1. William Serle and Richard Mervin, trustees of the will of Roger Wollacombe, deceased

2. Roger Wollacombe, legatee of the above will

3. John Stafford

Premises: Barton and farm called Whitsley (Whitsleigh) and Wester Whitsley in St Giles and Roborough

Reference: 48/2/14

Devon Record Office

Creation dates: January 1752. [Day of month illegible]

Physical characteristics: Document torn, and stained by damp.

Scope and Content

LANTEGLOS-BY-FOWEY, ROBOROUGH, ST. GILES IN THE WOOD, CREDITON, ALVERDISCOTT, ASHREIGNY, ST. TEATH, ST. JUST IN ROSELAND, PROBUS, HELLAND, HIGH BICKINGTON, BERRYNARBOR, GEORGEHAM, HARTLAND, GREAT TORRINGTON, ST. TUDY, ST. KEW

Lease for a year (copy) [Release missing].

(1) Thomas Wollocombe of Roborough, esq., and John Wollocombe of Roborough, gent., son of Thomas.

(2) John Marsh of Carey Street, Lincoln's Inn, Middlesex, gent.

Manors of Coombe, Whitsleigh and Thellbridge, bartons or farms called Coombe, Whitsleigh and Hole, and all lands and rights of (1) in Whitsleigh, Lower Whitsleigh, Middle Whitsleigh, Hole, Yeaberly, Rapson, Villavin, Barlington, Riddlecombe, Shatley, Creedy, Whoe, Alverdiscott, Roborough, St. Giles, Ashreigny, High Bickington, Georgeham, Hartland, Berrynarbor, and Great Torrington (Devon), and the manors of Kellygreen, Pollgreen, Guillys, and Helland (Cornwall), and all lands and rights of (1) in Kellygreen, Pollgreen, Guillys, Helland, Brightor, Trekee, Pengelly, Tolcarne, Rosecaswith, Bodynick, St. Tudy, St. Kew, St. Teath, Probus, St. Just, and Lanteglos.

Consideration: 5s. Rent: One grain of corn.
Lesley

From: Warwick Kellaway
Sent: May 10, 2006
Subject: John C/K of Cullompton, Devon - Part II

Yes all
The situation is becoming very interesting.
We should not forget that County boundaries were very much only on paper, except where a lord's domains might be involved, and they could spread over several counties. Apart from the Cornish language, which would have applied more to the lower classes, the gentry or wealthy would have been able to converse on the same level, with perhaps a dialectic accent. French would have been used for some time. Launceston, Bodmin and other places referred to in our research were all in Cornwall, or close to. So the family was certainly there. Whether Cornish properties were acquired through marriage, or had been held from the earliest times might be difficult to determine, but property anywhere was usually involved in a marriage settlement of some sort, at some time. As Sherrill says we would probably be looking at dialectic versions of the name in the Killiowe/Kyllowes. However they did have different arms, which might be saying something.

Have a look at Stowford Devon in Google. The rectory there in 1831 was in the patronage and incumbency of the Rev Jno Wollocombe MA. The PR also has several Wollocombes there in the 1800s. No Staffords or C/Ks. Lifton? The Wollocombes were at Roborough also. I don't think there is any doubt they took over from the Staffords in those regions.

Discovered an interesting 1765 map under St Giles in the Wood - Etched on Devon's Memory. We can see St Giles, Roborough, Dolton, Stafford Barton, and Dowland.

Also spotted mention of the Prouz family, under Wollocombe references. About 1410 Thomas of Stowford married a Prouz heiress of Gatford in Colyton. Is that the origin of the John's Colyton property?
Warwick

From: Sherrill Williams
Sent: May 10, 2006
Subject: Roger Wyke, again!

While you all are waiting on data on the daughters of John of Cullompton, I ran across an item in my 1997 research shoe box that you can be thinking about.

If you recall, we had a discussion about Roger Wyke and how he got his foot in the door of Rockborne and Sutton Bingham by marrying Joan, the widow of Thomas Callaway, who by this marriage brought those properties into the C/K family. I recall thinking, and possibly saying, that the dates looked to me like there was room for another generation between Thomas and the 1st William, knight (who was father of the later Sir John of Rockborne). So, please study the following and see what you think. Was there a "John" C/K between Thomas and 1st William, knight?

Pedes Finium [Somerset Fines], Vol.XXII, Somerset Record Society.

26 Henry VI (1447/8)
At Westminster in the quinzaine of St. Michael between Nicholas Radeford and William Lytelwyke querents; and Roger Wyke and Joan his wife deforciants; for the manor of Sutton Byngham and the advowson, and four messuages, one hundred acres of land and six acres of
meadow in Sutton Byngham and Estcoker. Roger and Joan acknowledged the right of Nicholas and quit-claimed for themselves and the heirs of Joan; for this Nicholas granted the same to them to hold without impeachment of waste for their lives, and after their decease to remain to "John son and heir of John Cayleway and Joan his wife" and their issue, and if John and Joan die without issue then to remain to the aforesaid Joan the wife of Roger. -

That reads to me that Thomas Callaway and Joan Bingham had a son named John, who also had a wife named Joan. They could be the parents of 1st knight William, and thus give us the space we need to fit some of these other C/K families into the lineage - such as John of Cullompton and the Sherborne clan.

Your thoughts, please,
Sherrill

From: Warwick Kellaway
Sent: May 10, 2006
Subject: Roger Wyke, again!

Sherrill
We do need to look closely at this.
I personally never had any difficulty with the descent of the Rockbourne family. It was the other Dorset/Wiltshire family who did not add up. A stray John could help, although we had three successive Johns, from William of Sherborne's father to the youngest, born apparently in 1448. The indications are that they were Thomas's elder family, but leaving no descendants, the property passed to William and his family. Then got complicated with the Wykes.

My information had suggested that there were three Thomases in the game. The original man born about 1375, who married Joan Bingham. The next, probably his brother John's grandson, born perhaps around 1430, said to be the forebear of the Dorset/Wiltshire family, but not matching them in time, and the one born around 1470, who does not properly fit the earlier family, but does match the Dorset/Wiltshire family. Something is definitely wrong, but it is certainly not clear yet.

This 1447/8 record appears to be about the time of John's son's birth. John himself died in 1467, two years before William.
Warwick

From: Bruce Callaway
Sent: May 10, 2005
Subject: Roger Wyke, again!

I would have to agree with Warwick that we need to think carefully about this and that the descent of the Rockbourners is fairly well tied up. The legal argument surrounding the Rockbourne inheritance in which reference was made to the Wykes/Binghams/Barretts/de Romseys caused me many a headache, and I would have to take several deep breaths before re-visiting it! 

This specifically refers to the manor of Sutton Bingham and the date 1447 meaning 1. not only do we have to have a revision of dates (I have Joan's former husband Thomas as 1375-1461, but he was surely dead if his former wife was now married to Wyke), but 2. Being fairly certain that Thomas and Joan Bingham had no offspring it suggests that the Rockbourne William (1400-1469) married firstly to Joan Barrett, was not an only child and the son and heir of John K/C (c.1370) but rather had a brother John who was the son and heir. 

Wow! My Family Tree program is not going to like this! We had better bat this around for a while before any prescipitous action.
Bruce

From: Sherrill Williams
Sent: May 11, 2006
Subject: Roger Wyke, again!

Bruce, think about it. If Thomas C/K and Joan Bingham had no children, then how did the Bingham property end up in the hands of the C/Ks? The descent of property was set by law, always to the eldest son. If there was no son, then a daughter. But if there were NO children, the descent of land would have moved over to some distant Bingham cousin. Without the sources in front of me, I believe Joan Bingham C/K married Roger
Wyke about 1423, and I think the schedule of those "presenting" vicars at Sutton Bingham also reflects that - the date Roger Wyke began presenting there. It suggests that Thomas C/K had died and Wyke took over when he married the widow. Please do re-visit the whole story.
Whatever is going on, Joan Callaway Wyke has a son named John Callaway. This transaction did not deal with Rockborne, only Sutton Binghamn, and East Coker, if you noticed that. Now I need to find out how the Binghams were involved with East Coker! Apply some "3rd grade arithmetic" to this, and see what happens.
Bed time here.
Sherrill

From: Bruce Callaway
Sent: May 11, 2006
Subject: Roger Wyke, again!

Quite so Sherrill. I have spent hours on my old notes for Rockbourne including 

ROCKBOURNE MANOR (Extracted from A History of Hampshire Page 582 et seq.)

25 Feud Aids,ii, 327

26 Chan. Inq. P.m. 47 Edw. 111 (1st nos.), no, 18; Cal. Close, 1354-60, p.144

27 Chan. Inq. P.m. 47 Edw. 111 (1st nos.), no. 29

28 See in this connexion Cal. Pat. 1399-1401, pp.372, 451; De Banc. R. 562, m 18d

29 Ibid.458;Chan.Inq.p.m. 5 Hen 1V, no. 32

30 Ibid. Alice his widow was a daughter of Sir William Fillol

31 Inq.p.m. 6 Hen 1V, no. 29.

32 Ibid. 26  Hen. V1, no. 26

33 Ibid. 7 Hen. V1, no. 26

34 Ibid. 8 Hen. V1, no. 22. The manor was settled on Thomas and Joan in 1440 (Cal. Pat. 1436-41, p. 473; Close, 19 Hen. V1, m 43). See the descent of the Bisset moiety of South Damerham.

35 Phillipps, Visit. Of Somerset. 133.

36 Close, 26 Hen. V1, no. 26

37 Coram Rege R. East. 2 Edw. 1V, m. 80

38 Cal. Pat. 1467-77, pp. 32, 33.

39 Chan.Inq. p.m. (Ser. 2), lxxxv, 39. 

It is clear to me now that William K/C's (1400-1469) Pa and Ma were Thomas K/C (1375-1423) and not John K/C the other son of Edmund (1340) of Sherbourne. I attach two PDF files hurriedly done on my program, one to illustrate the Rockbourne descent from the De Romseys and the other the descent from Edmund. The deal concerning Sutton Bingham involved Thomas' brother, the John Cayllewaye referred to in the 1447 Pedes Finium (Somerset). Descent from this family I believe is now capable of being slotted in with the information that we have.
Bruce

From: Warwick Kellaway
Sent: May 11. 2006
Subject: Roger Wyke, again!

Aha - we are getting into technicalities.

I gather there was some dispute there, and we may be looking at the reason. There had been another property "arrangement" with John le Calewe over the Giffard estates in the 1300s. Somewhat different circumstances, but resolved by the King. King or Courts - either presumably could determine or modify common law. I don't think either were involved here, but there may have been some agreement we as yet know nothing about. Must admit I am not a Medieval Legal expert - nor a present-day one. I had understood that titles and property would pass to the eldest son, then through surviving younger sons, and only to daughters if there were no sons left. But it could go sideways to siblings - from brother to brother - if there were no descendants.

The husband could acquire a considerable dowry upon marriage, and I would have thought that was a full grant. Upon the death of the wife's father, if there were no sons, the married wife would inherit her family property, and I think would retain title to the land, but only until her death. I have noticed that in some property cases, both husband and wife were recorded, seemingly as joint owners. In others the widow was recorded as if she was owner, although the legal position may have been more as occupant. The property then, I thought, passed to the husband's male line.

A factor here might have been that Thomas's family was already in possession of the Bingham property. (Possession being nine points of the law.) They may have been in even stronger possession by the time of Thomas's death. Who was going to say they should not be there, and more, who was going to throw them out?

The inheritance was complicated through both Ramsey and Bingham families. The Ramsey inheritance through her grandfather and Joane's mother in 1399 - before her marriage - but not actually inherited until sometime after the death of her uncle in 1421. (Don't think we know when the mother died.) Not sure also what was Ramsey, what Bingham, although Bingham Sutton was presumably Joane's either at marriage, or when her father died, whenever that was. Thomas was already Patron of Sutton Bingham Church in 1412, which implies he was lord of the Manor. It seems to me, and I could be wrong, that there may have been no Bingham males left, only old(?) uncle Sir John Ramsey, and the two ladies. Thomas was in charge. (Sir John died in 1421.)

It is possible that Thomas's brother John (who could have been his elder brother), having moved from Kellaways in Wiltshire to Chenstone in Chawleigh Devon with his father Edmund in the 1390s, then back to Wiltshire again from 1405 to 1429, as Patron there, spent some of his time at Sutton Bingham between the two. Did he settle at Sutton Bingham in 1429, or were the Wykes there by then?

There is no way of confirming much of this, but that John matches William of Sherborne's father, and the father of another John, who died in 1467, and grandfather of young 1448 John, who may have died not long after. My feeling remains that Thomas's brother John inherited/acquired some, if not all, the Bingham properties (I had presumed because there were no descendants). They passed to his brother William of Sherborne some time after the demise of the other two Johns, either in the two years before William's own death in 1469, or very possibly later, and skipped to William's descendants. Such that William never actually held them.

I am not sure where Roger Wyke fitted at Sutton Bingham, but presume it could have been in that period around 1447. Did he leave no descendants himself to defend their family claim to the property? Could that have been why it reverted?

It is possible that Thomas had a son John - there is a lot we still do not know - maybe one of those thought to be the other family was his, although there is no suggestion of a John with father Thomas. Maybe that is how the Wykes were kept out. The son was still alive when Roger died? (Unfortunately most of these C/Ks in the early 1400s had wives name
Joan.)
Warwick

From: Bruce Callaway
Sent: May 11, 2006
Subject: Roger Wyke, again!

Warwick wrote: It is possible that Thomas's brother John (who could have been his elder brother), having moved from Kellaways in Wiltshire to Chenstone in Chawleigh Devon with his father Edmund in the 1390s, then back to Wiltshire again from 1405 to 1429, as Patron there, spent some of his time at Sutton Bingham between the two.  Did he settle at Sutton Bingham in 1429, or were the Wykes there by then? 

We must put one foot in front of the other. We are agreed that the 1340 Edmund had two sons viz. the 1370 John and the c.1371-c.1423 Thomas, and here we must differentiate between the subsequent inheritance of Sutton Bingham and Rockbourne. Sherrill is undoubtedly correct in stating that "Bruce, think about it. If Thomas C/K and Joan Bingham had no children, then how did the Bingham property end up in the hands of the C/Ks? The descent of property was set by law, always to the eldest son." It is clear that after the death of her husband Thomas, and marrying Wyke, there were two persons  who were C/K's involved in the inheritance of two properties and their extensive avowdsons. That Joan should agree with her second husband Wyke in 1427 that Sutton Bingham should ' remain to "John son and heir of John Cayleway and Joan his wife" and their issue, and if John and Joan die without issue then to remain to the aforesaid Joan the wife of Roger (? Wyke). 

Clearly, Sutton Byngham did not revert to Joan Bingham therefore her nephew John Cayllewaye had issue. She was not fazed because she knew that her inheritance to her son Thomas of the Rockbourne properties was defined. The myth that she had no children must end here!

The de Romseys fought for some 10 years to regain Rockbourne from Sir William K/C(1400-1469) who had been willed Rockbourne by his
Mother Joan K/C(Bingham/Wyke). ( 26 Hen.V1 no.26) . In fact, in 1472 Edward 1V for a time did grant Rockbourne to Joan SWETE (gggrandaughter of the first Sir Walter de Romsey), but Sir John K/C son of the first Sir William and grandson of Thomas took it back! 

This brings us finally to the descent of John as Rockbourne is taken care of. It is getting late but I believe that I have it hopefully figured from Warwick's original and well researched "Caillouet Kellaway Chronicles" 

Wow! Are we covering a lot of territory. It remains a pity that we have no extant links to this tribe, but we are slowly getting there.
Bruce

From: Sherrill Williams
Sent: May 11, 2006
Subject: Roger Wyke, again!

Warwick, we had the same descent of land law over here before the Revolution. And, I have a copy of a little book written for the use of county officials dealing with the subject. Land descended from father to eldest son; if there was no son, then a daughter, and down her line. If the land holder had no children at all, the land slid over to the next oldest brother, and descended in his line; or failing a brother or sister, to the eldest cousin. Land always descended DOWN, not UP to a father or uncle. If the line failed to produce children and just came to an end, if the land was held by the King (Crown grant)it would revert to the Crown and be re-granted to another favorite. This is what happened to old "Thomas of Charles City County, VA" who early C/K researchers had placed at the head of the family lineage. We found the escheatment record - "he dyed in this country with no heirs" - the land was reclaimed by the Crown and granted to another person. All that was in the record, including to whom the land was re-granted. Erase old Thomas from the top of the chart! In the case the father had a will, he could hand out some landed property to lesser sons, but it was understood that the eldest son inherited the major part of the estate. Often the eldest son, who would inherit the major part of the landed estate, was not even mentioned in the will. Everyone "understood" that he was to take over the main estate. There was no need to mention it in the will at all. That is what the inquisition post mortem was all about - determining who the real heir was, and if there were Crown lands, that was important. I think of this often in regards to the will of William (1469) of Sherborne. He handed out his "goods" to mostly son, William; he gave a small part of the landed property to grandson, John. It seems that land was in Somerset, and sounds a bit like it may have been part of the Ledred estate. Most of the Ledred estate was passed on to Roger and Joan Ledred's only child, a daughter, who married a Strode. So, we cannot really tell who inherited the landed estate of William (1469). Was it son William? or was there another son, not named in the will, who automatically inherited the land. We do not even know what "landed estate" William (1469) held. Nothing is mentioned in the will, except for his "house" in Sherborne, and there is a gap in our records concerning this. We have no Inq.p.m. for him, either, which would have helped solve the problem. So this is fun, but it is also a big headache.
Sherrill

From: Warwick Kellaway
Sent: May 11, 2006
Subject: Roger Wyke, again!

Bruce 

I presume the "aforesaid Joan" would be Joan herself (somewhat strange wording), but could not Joan be referring to her brother-in-law John, the father of William, with wife Joan and son John, who we know in turn had a son John in 1448?
(Three Johns born c 1375, 1410, 1448.)
If all this happened in 1447 - perhaps John No 3's arrival was convenient?  (Roger might not have expected a late arrival - were Mum and Dad perhaps in their 40s?) 
Anyway the last two of the three Johns were still alive for twenty years after 1447, when the father died (1467), by which time Joan herself, and probably Roger, were presumably already dead.  Would not the youngest then inherit Sutton Bingham?
Joan's 1447 agreement with Roger would therefore hold.
 
I don't really want to raise the other subject, but see that Rockbourne was mentioned in John No 2's 1467 IPM. 
Warwick

From: Warwick Kellaway
Sent: May 11, 2006
Subject: Roger Wyke, again!

A real thank you for that Sherrill.
Very clear.
The "down not up", could explain why William never seemed to have his hands on the property - it went to his children. While I suspect you may not agree, that would for me also explain why there was no mention of the Thomas, who was said to be the eldest son of William of Sherborne's first marriage. Also, as you say, the strange non-mention of property.
Warwick

From: Sherrill Williams
Sent: May 11, 2006
Subject: Roger Wyke, again!

It says "Nicholas granted the same to them to hold without impeachment of waste for their lives (Roger [Wyke] and Joan [Bingham Callaway Wyke], and after their decease to remain to JOHN son and heir of JOHN CAYLEWAY and JOAN HIS WIFE and their issue, and if John and Joan die without issue then to remain to Joan [Bingham Callaway] the WIFE of ROGER [WYKE].

It reads to me as if Joan [nee Bingham] Callaway Wyke had a son named John (who may have been deceased) who also had a son John Callaway (son of Thomas) with a wife named Joan. In other words, the John with wife Joan was a grandson of Joan Bingham Callaway Wyke. As I said before, there is no evidence in this that a child of Roger Wyke was involved in this transaction. However, if we go back to the previous item concerning Joan Bingham, etc. and Roger Wyke, there was a son, John Wyke who was married to a CAMMEL. Not sure if Joan [nee Bingham] was the mother. Will have to go back and re-read that for clarification.
Sherrill

From: Bruce Callaway
Sent: May 12, 2006
Subject: Roger Wyke, again!

Sherrill!
Surely this is a long bow to be drawn, and Warwick! They were discussing Sutton Bingham and not Rockbourne. Sutton Bingham was Mrs. Callaway/Wyke's(nee Byngham) property by inheritance. Rockbourne by then belonged to her son William (1400-1469) whom I now believe was older than his brother John. Mother 'hen' wanted her ?deceased youngest to have a bit of the action, so Sutton Bingham was to go to her grandson John. Roger Wyke held numerous properties in his own right (see attached) and I believe the agreement was to ensure that Roger the lodger kept his 'cotton picken' hands offen his widow wife's properties. 

As a little diversion whilst we settle our thoughts and differences, the attached clearly explains several things, apart from Roger Wyke viz. Pedigrees and visitations and why 'our' COA must fall into the category of 'long usage' and not a grant by the College of Arms. Also note why the de=off was dispensed with after Richard 11. (and the spelling CATTAWAY!)
Bruce

THE ANCIENT FAMILY OF WYKE OF NORTH
WYKE, CO. DEVON.
BY THE REV. W. WYKES-FINCH, M.A., J.P.
[Read at Sidmouth, July, 1903].

William, son of Roger, succeeded to the chief estates, lived at North Wyke,9 and is the first of his family in the Wyke pedigree of the Heralds’ Visitations, the earliest of which for Devon is dated 1531. In these visitations of family scrutiny as to the right of bearing particular arms, it is uncommon to find the Heralds taking notice of descent earlier than the reign of Richard II., because before that date heraldry had not become a science, nor the use of particular arms regarded as hereditary, and so crystallised into a family right. This "right", it was now the Heralds’ duty to look into and protect, by obtaining from every family that used arms a proof of their claim and right to use them. And this could only be done by the setting forth of their pedigree, and showing immemorial use, or by proof of some grant of arms since the reign of Richard II.

 The use, indeed, began as early as the end of the twelfth century. Till then seals were the distinguishing mark and right of men of rank and position. But for the next hundred and fifty years, armorial devices were changed at will, though their allusiveness to past history was generally kept. There went on, however, during the greater part of this time, a gradual evolution towards the stereotyping of particular arms, and claiming them as family rights. And before the end of the fourteenth century, they were regarded as the lawful possession of the users, to the exclusion of all others. It was doubtless on this account that the Heralds usually confined their attention to proof of pedigree and user from that period.

 Nor was this the only change that was completed in the reign of Richard II., for it was then that territorial names were generally taken as surnames, when the "name of the house" became the name of the family, and when, therefore, the "de" necessarily disappeared. And Pole states that this was so with the Wyke family, and that, henceforth, too, they were no more called "Wray". They were, therefore, no longer of Wyke, or of Wray, but "Wyke" only, as a surname. 

Roger Wyke married three times; each wife was called Joan, and a daughter of a great house. His first was Joan, daughter of Thomas Bingham, lord of the manor of Sutton Bingham, county Somerset; his second was Joan, daughter and heir of …… Bisset; and his third wife was Joan, daughter and heir of Thomas Chasteleyne, of Dennington and Trent, in Somerset. The said Roger was M.P. for Plympton in 1413; and in 1415 he accompanied his cousin,

  1. In 1428 he "held ½ fee in Cruk Burnell [North Tawton], which John Burnell [his grandfather] lately held" [Feudal Aids].

the Earl of Devon, in the invasion of France by Henry V.,2 and took part in the glorious victory of Agincourt. From 1422 to 1467, when he died, he was patron of Sutton Bingham. On 16th July, 1425,3 he obtained from Bishop Lacy a licence for an oratory in his mansion of Bindon. In 1448, on the death of his first wife’s cousin, Joan Romesey, he entered into possession of her share of Rokebourne, Hants, and Combe Bisset, Wilts.  

Picture]. The picture shows the Effigy of Roger Wykes, Armiger. The text poorly copied but appears to be –

‘Effigy in the Parish Church of St. Andrew, Trent, Co. Somerset of Roger Wykes, Armiger, younger son of William Wykes of North Wyke in South Tawton, Devon by Katherine, his wife da. And h of John Burnell of Cockatree in the …. Parish. He obtained Byndon and Axmouth, Devon, 1406erected there the Lady Chapel 1425. He was the MP for Plympton St. Mary 1413, e.. launce(?) at the Battle of Agincourt 1415. His first w. was Joan wd. of Thomas Kettoway of Cayleway, da. of Thomas Bingham, Lord of Sutton-Bingham, Co.Somerset, … Cayleway .. da. of Thomas Bingham. Lord of Sutton Bingham, Co. Somerset. By his w. Mary, da. (by Alice his w. da’ of Sir William Filliol) of Sir Walter de Romesey and Ramsey who was grandson of Sir JohnWharton (a descendant through the Tyrrels Clares and Giffards of Richard 1st. Duke of Normandy) by Ela his w. daur and co-h of John, Lord Biset, who was son (by Phillipa his w. da of William Malbane, Baron of Nantwich, of Thomas , Lord Basset a descendant (through the Dunstanvilles and Reginald, Earl of Cornwall) of King Henry 1st.By his first w. Roger had John and probably other children. He entered into possession of her share of Rokebyrne, Hants, Combe Biset, Wilts 1448. He was Patron of the church of All Saints Sutton Bingham – 1422 to 1467. In right of his second w. Joan, h. of Biset he had during her life, Radbours Co. Dorset. His 3rd w. was Joan, da. h. of Thomas Chasteleyne, Lord of Donnington and Trent, both in Co. Somerset, by Emma his w.,dau and co-h of John de Cantelupe, Lord of Chilton-Cantelo, Co.Somerset.

In right of his third w. Roger held a third of the Manor of Trent. He held lands in Croke Burnell, South Tawton (presumably from his mother) & elsewhere. Relinquishing his paternal coat armour, erm, three Dane-axes sa. He assumed that of his mother’s family, arg a chev betw three bernicles sa. Differentiating the chevron, which he bore ermines. Amongst over 70 variations of the name the predominant forms are Wake, Wike, Wyke, Wykes, and Weekes.

From: Warwick Kellaway
Sent: May 12, 2006
Subject: Roger Wyke, again!

I know, I know, Bruce.  I should not have mentioned Rockbourne.

 
Just happened to see it under John (No 2), and his 1467 IPM.
To me that said that in 1467 John had some hold over the manor.  Not only that, but as he apparently died the same year as Roger, where did it go?  Presumably his son John (No 3), and when he died, to either his brother William, or to William's family.  Most probably William's family.  QED Sir William.
 
Back to Sutton Bingham.  If William had been older than John, would Joan not have named him as the heir?
(I am still assuming John and William were the sons of John (No 1)).
 
From the Wyke report, there seems some confusion as to whether it was Joan, or her cousin Joan Romesey, who had a "share" in Rockbourne, and who died in 1448. 
These dates 1447-8 do seem important.
 
If it was Joan herself, which seems probable, it seems to me that she knew she was dying in 1447, and got Roger to agree to an inheritance that he felt was safe.  Not knowing that John and his wife would produce baby John the next year.  Maybe Joan did?  (Much of the world's history has been determined by manipulative ladies, not their thick aggressive males.)
 
I notice that the Rev Wykes-Finch did not really recognise the C/K family, despite the fact they did the Wykes out of some serious property.  Actually some of the quoted facts look suspicious, and he might have been the confused one. 
If Roger Wyke was an MP in 1413, he must have been born around 1390.  He would have been around 80 when he died in 1467, and also around 60 when Joan died (she was alive in 1447).  Then had two more marriages?  Where was he living in 1425 - Bindon or Sutton Bingham?  Not both.
I also suspect the son John mentioned of Roger and Joan just might have been John C/K (No 3).
 
We are getting some interesting theories. 
Warwick

From: Bruce Callaway
Sent: May 12, 2006
Subject: Roger Wyke, again!

I know that I shouldn't, but I am getting a lttle bit over Sutton Bingham and Rockbourne as I am sure the 'group' are, but I must grit my teeth and carry on because we really are discussing the relationship of  a whole lot of rels. 

The descent from William K/C (1400-1469) is tied up with the Rockbourne annals, clearely defined and set in cement. It is only where we try to track back to link this tribe to Sherbourne and the other well known 'tribes' which seems pivotal on who Mrs. C/K nee Byngham and subsequently Wyke procreated. 

She certainly produced children from dear Roger, and I have no reason to believe that she did simarly with Tom (1375-c.1423) his and her first liason. Progeny William as first born and subsequently John fits so neatly with arguments which have extended over years. Seems that like Tom Cruise that we are questioning the fertility of Tom. 

Why this is so important, and I already hear yawns from the back stalls, is that  the descent from Tom's brother John  involves so many other branches which have been researched and documented. Sure, John did not inherit Rockbourne or Sutton Bingham, but his descendants rose to fame with Stalbridge, Cheritone Fitzpaine etc., and marriage to the Pomeroys, Cokers, Plunknetts, Phelps etc. etc. The Rockbourne crew fade into insignificance with their claims to fame. Sure again, Sir John was Sherriff of Hampshire, his children at Court and repelling the French from the Isle of Wight, Captains in the Royal Navy, capturing prizes from the Spanish (Gyles) etc etc. but if we are to get any link back from this mob, Sherrill, Warwick and Bruce will have to stop fighting an internet war on the obstetric history of Mrs. Thomas Cayllewaye. 

Do please tell me if you want to be left out and place us on your Spam filter until we (Sherrill Warwick and Bruce) ,if ever, work out this vexed problem. I see Donna Morgan, who is recording all this, immediately put up her hand!
Bruce

From: Sherrill Williams
Sent: May 12, 2006
Subject: Roger Wyke, again!

Bruce, you have picked up on the right theme. I have been looking for the "opening" in this line to plug in John of Cullompton. The way we had it structured, there was no place to plug him in. But, this new information expands the possibilities. I realize that John of Cullompton made no claims to Rockborne and Sutton Bingham, but there is some reason he showed up in the record provided by Lesley with these families.
He certainly had the same COA, though possibly, as the "experts" claim, he was of a "cadet or younger" branch due the "bordure engrailled." We must look at every record with a critical eye. And the blessed Binghams and Bissets are always hovering in the background of all of them.
Sherrill

From: Sylvia Warham
Sent: May 12, 2006
Subject: Dolton Church

Hello Warwick,
Thank you for all that information about COA. I found it extremely interesting. I am not a COA specialist - but getting much more interested. I was familiar with the Copplestones' COA in connection with other BWK properties (Copplestone is only five miles from here travelling in the Crediton direction - and they owned a lot of property.) and the Yeo family is well documented. Also the church historian attributed the COA's to Yeo and Coppleston - which, I believe was correct because Thomas Stafford married Ann Copplestone of Luccombe and their son Philippe Stafford married Alice d. of William Yeo of Heanton. However I did not know about the Proust family - what was their COA and how were they related to the c/k's? ( It would behelpful for me to totally understand the implications of the photographs I took!) What really interests me is how long the Kelloways were at Stafford Beare before they changed their name to Stafford. Some of my property evidence suggests that they may have been there a very long time - before the Muxbeare Kelloways were at Muxbeare - but I am sure you will be able to correct me! Today I had reason to revisit the Copplestone Visitation in connection with another BWK property and the first thing I saw (with horror, because I had completely missed it) was:
Alice Kelly (of BWK) married Richard Weeks of Honeychurch ( and I had always thought that was the end of the story because there was no record of an issue) - also married Richard Copplestone of Woodland ( another BWK property) and being the only child she would most likely have taken the property with her. There was a will which I shall procure as soon as I can. The implications for the c/k's are that Woodcroft (alias BWK manor) came into the hands of John of Cullompton via the Copplestones ( and possibly other intervening families - but not the Stafford link). This might explain the Kelly link in the COA and imply that some of John of Cullompton's earliest forbears were Copplestones.
kindest regards
Sylvia

From: Warwick Kellaway
Sent: May 13, 2006
Subject: Dolton Church

Hello Sylvia,
You certainly have those C/K Stowford/Staffords etc well covered. I wish now that I had paid more attention when I discovered them, but was put off when I found the change in name - thinking there would be few C/Ks from there today. They were apparently a younger branch of the earlier Mokesbeare/Muxber family, which could have been of very early origin - perhaps mid 1100s - although they may also have been the Wiltshire family itself - having several manors. (My guess for Stafford Barton/Beare would be 1260-70). They used the C/K family name in most cases for some time, but could differentiate themselves by saying instead they were de Stowford - from Stowford.

The situation however was for me rather muddied. The manor was known as Stafford Barton - but was it originally Stowford Barton - maybe Beare? Why Stowford - was that an old geographical description - which seems likely? And where did the village/manor of Stowford near Lifton fit? The family seems to have lived at both places - at the same time - or was one a branch of the other?

I have the impression that they were more commonly using the Stowford name from the 1400s - about the time the "des" were generally being dropped. (The Devon C/Ks never really used the "de" anyway - possibly because they were remote from Kellaways in Wiltshire - but did use "de" Stowford for some time.) I don't think Stowford changed to Stafford much before 1500.

Other, important, Stafford families had appeared on the scene about then, and it may have been a convenience. (Who was a Stowford?) Some however retained the Kelloway spelling. Sorry I cannot give a better answer but, as I say, I really am not sure. I regret now that I did not spend more time trying to surf through the Devon family Heraldic Pedigrees, because they are reasonably well set out - even if without dates.

The event I did pick out was one of the numerous Thomases in the family marrying a Prouz heiress of Gatford, in Colyton. I thought at the time it could have been about 1410 - around the same time the other Dorset Thomas married Joane Bingham. It was recorded that in 1423 Thomas Stowforde, and Joan his wife, received Licencia Celebrandi to hold divine services at their houses in Stafford Barton and Colyton. I presumed they were the same pair, and that for me tied Stowford, Stafford Barton, and Colyton together, and suggested that the later Cullompton John was probably from the Devon family. (However, from recent information which suggests the Dorset family, in the form of the Rockbourne knights, had control over Stafford Barton in the 1500s, that does not mean that John was not closely related to the Dorset family.)

It definitely looks as though we should now check the Devon pedigrees in more detail. I notice I had a sequence from John Kalleway of Stoford having a son Thomas born about 1435. That Thomas and his wife Joan (yet another
Joan!) had their son Thomas about 1465. That Thomas being the one who married Ann Coppleston, perhaps about 1490, with sons Richard and Phillipe. It was I think Phillipe Kelloway who married Alice Yeo? Their three sons, perhaps born around 1520, William, Thomas and Robart (matching Dorset names at the time), all seem to have used the name Stafford. William went to Ottery St Mary, Thomas to Dowland, Robart perhaps to Cornwall, having married Elizabeth Menwhenyke.

I do hope I have not caused too much disturbance here to delay haymaking further.
Good luck,
Warwick

From: Warwick Kellaway
Sent: May 13, 2006
Subject: Roger Wyke, again!

Bruce, 

You, and Sherrill, have the Wyke story rather more than I have, but I note your comment that Roger had a son John by his second wife, not our Joan.  That would certainly weaken his case to grab Sutton Bingham.
 
I am pretty sure however that Rockbourne was mentioned in John's 1467 IPM. 
Warwick

From: Bruce Callaway
Sent: May 13, 2006
Subject: Roger Wyke, again!

Correct on all counts Warwick. For yonks I have been referring to your original "The Caillouet  Kellaway Chronicles" which I still consider to be pivitol for the medieval research of the family but we are having to come to some modification in descent given more recent information. 

Rockbourne was indeed mentioned in John's inquisition post mortem, but which John? We must accept that Rockbourne only came to be a property of the C/Ks because our Tom married Joan Bingham who had inherited it from her de Romsey connections (they certainly didn't possess it by any other means). 

To my mind, it is not the Thomas' who were stuffed up in the Chronicles, but the Johns!

If you would accept the one basic principal that Thomas and Joan Bingham  were the Mum and Dad of William and John and not Thomas' brother John everything falls into place from your research. We just have to place the 1467 John!
Bruce

From: Bruce Callaway
Sent: May 13, 2006
Subject: Dolton Church

Still revelling in the fantastic pics in Dolton Church of the COAs, I guess that we have to all change gear and look with interest at what our new found researcher Sylvia has come up with (and do not worry about a loss of fine motor skills Sylvia, you do so well with your e-mails) 

Firstly PROUZE exists today as Prouse whilst WOOLLOCOMBE is Wolacombe and families by these names exist in Devon today and simarly to what we have experienced they haven't a clue about their antecendants. 

The bleeding Staffords/Stowfords are similarly placed. I think that in the research of the C/K antecedents which is really down to Sherrill Williams (The CFA genealogist) who has spent a veritable lifetime on research, the entry of another researcher who comes out of left field is to be not only applauded, but encouraged.

I guess if we go back to these medieval times, property ownership was the only form of wealth because of the rentals produced. Business and manufactories were not in existence. The Law therefore expanded to ensure that property and the ownership were well defined. Avowdsons of even the Church and their Parsons were inherited as a consequence. The records of these are what we are relying upon and Lordy me how sparse they are! 

Wills and testamenaries, Church plaques and Tombs sometimes inject a little emotion into bequests and the life of the deceased, depending on the attitude of the will maker faced with impending death, or the beneficiary who scored or did not. 

The subsequent court cases, again well recorded, of the Family who were dudded or otherwise by the bequests, gives forth more attitude and emotion. The evolution of the beaurocracy employed by Kings and Government to record holdings in order to benefit from Taxation is another source upon which we rely. 

From these sparse relics (including the stones in Sylvia's back paddock) we are attempting to put it all together. Wow! Are we kidding ourselves?A bit of a fun hobby at least,
Bruce

From: Sherrill Williams
Sent: May 13, 2006
Subject: Roger Wyke, again!

Right on, Bruce! That is where I have been struggling. I think there is "the other Thomas" who does not fit directly into this scenario. We need to
take another look at those Stafford/Kellaway pedigrees because those are the people holding land of "William 1st knight" "as of his manor of Chedelton."
Sherrill

From: David Scott
Sent: May 13, 2006
Subject: Francis Kellaway Sheriff 1587

Has anyone seen any of these documents? If not are could they be of interest?
David Scott

Catalogue Ref. 44M69
Creator(s):
Jervoise family of Herriard, Hampshire
OFFICIAL
Offices of Sheriff and Justice of the Peace
SHRIEVALTY
Hampshire
FILE - Note of moneys to be paid to the sheriff - ref.
44M69/G3/15 - date: c.1590
[from Scope and Content] Refers to Kellaway, late sheriff, (Francis Kellaway was sheriff in 1587)
Jervoise family of Herriard
Catalogue Ref. 44M69
Creator(s):
Jervoise family of Herriard, Hampshire
OFFICIAL
Offices of Sheriff and Justice of the Peace
SHRIEVALTY
Hampshire
FILE - Original bundle of papers relating to Francis Kellawaye's debt to the Crown 1591, 1596-97 docs - ref. 44M69/G3/49 - date: 1591, 1594 and 1597
item: Letter from F Kelway to Sir Richard Poulet - ref.
44M69/G3/49/5 - date: 10 Jan 1596-97

From: Warwick Kellaway
Sent: May 14, 2006
Subject: Roger Wyke, again!

Bruce, 

The original Chronicles are ageing now, but I am surprised just how much they remain pertinent, and I do continually relate back, as perhaps you notice.
There is a lot more information available now, but really only the section on Robert W&L needs sorting out to a major extent. 
At the time I was also unsure about that family of Thomas with what we now call the "missing generation", and had moved the Dorset/Wiltshire branch back a generation to compensate.  We now have that "gap" around 1440-1470, which remains unresolved.
Think we may have some more to add after Sylvia has been at work.  Certainly a lot more on Cullompton.
 
The precis version has been relatively easy to update, but of course does not have the detail.
 
I am not actually very worried about either the Johns or Thomases, as far as they go.  We simply have a lot more information, which I see as tuning, pending definite alterations being required. 
Beware Bruce though that William of Sherborne's Dad, from his 1469 will, was a John.
 
That was why, at the time, and after a lot of worrying, I could only answer the conundrum by having Thomas and John No 1 as brothers.  John No 2 and William as the sons of John.  We do know John No 3 was the son of John.
 
1467 John was there somewhere from several evidential reports and, if he had a son born c 1448, would seem to be a John No 2. 
 
I had already noted the numerous Devon Thomases, and thought one could have popped up at Sherborne.  But the Prouz marriage, and subsequent reference to their two houses, seemed to say no - that Thomas remained in Devon.
We also had the movement of Edmund and Joan from Wiltshire to Devon about 1394, officially 1399, and the re-appearance of a John at the Wiltshire manor from 1405-29.  Logically he was the son of Edmund, who remained at Chedelton, (which appears to possibly have been Chenstone or Cheldon manor - and a building seems there today.)  He, or possibly his son/nephew, John, was Patron of Cheldon rectory in 1440.
 
I have just noticed John was recorded as holding Sutton in Dorset in 1428.  Was this the year before Roger W got his hands on it?
 
Have to fly now, 
Warwick

From: Sylvia Warham
Sent: May 18, 2006
Subject: Hugh Kayleway

Hello Warwick . . and everyone else,
In great haste - found this interesting record in my meanderings: PRO 1486-1529 Scope and content  John, son and heir of Hugh Kayleway. v. John Colle, of Tawton: Detention of deeds relating to land in Broadwoodkelly.: Devon.

The dates are right for John of Cullompton who owned much BWK property - could this Hugh ( and note he is called kayleway, not Kellaway) be the father of John of Cullompton?
Kindest regards,
Sylvia

From: Bruce Callaway
Sent: May 19, 2006
Subject: Hugh Kayleway

I understand that Warwick is away for the weekend. I know that he had pinpointed a Hugh de Kayleway, but I believe that he was 13th century! Search as I might, I cannot find another Hugh of any variant spelling in my archives Sylvia, but I really think that you are on to something important for our mysterious Cullompton John. Anyone else?
Bruce

From: Sherrill Williams
Sent: May 19, 2006
Subject: Hugh Kayleway

I have a "note" (not from my note-taking) that says 1471 "Hugh Cayleway - one of several grandees" I don't know the source of that note, or what it means, but he is in the right time frame. Thanks, Sylvia. That is something to pursue.
Sherrill

From: Sylvia Warham
Sent: May 19, 2006
Subject: Hugh Kayleway

Hello Sherrill,
Do you think it is possible that John of Cullompton had a brother called Thomas, because I have also found this record of the same date relating to Hugh Kayleway: 1486-1529 Scope and content Thomas, son and heir of [Hugh] Cayleway. v. John Collys: Detention of deeds relating to lands and tenements in Wodelond in the parish of Broadwood Kelly.: [Devon] Or is it more likely that this Thomas was the Stafford Beare Thomas? I have ordered both documents from PRO but won't get them until next week. If the properties are named we should be able to identify John of Cullompton - positively or otherwise. I am beginning to wonder if the kellaways owned the whole of BWK!
Kindest regards,
Sylvia.

From: Sherrill Williams
Sent: May 19, 2006
Subject: Hugh Kayleway

Sylvia, it would not be unusual for the name Thomas to appear with Hugh. I was trying to determine when and for what reason the name Hugh began to be used in this family. Perhaps it is due to the marriage of a Thomas Kellaway to the daughter of [blank] Prouz; she was heir to her brother HUGH Prouz (Visit. of Devon). There is a Thomas in every other generation of this maddeningly "straight line" descendancy chart for the Kellaway name. This chart is called "Kellaway of Stowford." Another chart, "Stafford of Stowford" begins with Thomas Kellaway/Stafford of Stowford who married Ann Copleston. I have this all typed up, but need to complete the proofreading. Typing on this laptop with the flat keyboard is a pain - my fingers have trouble with it. Hope I can send this out this weekend. It may help you understand the lineage better - if the early generations of these visitation pedigrees can be believed, at all.
Sherrill

From: Bruce Callaway
Sent: May 20, 2006
Subject: Hugh Kayleway & some bits and pieces

Being frustrated with John of Cullompton and his alleged Daddy Hugh and possible brother Thomas, I whiled away some time on GOOGLE and stumbled upon some parish registers for Sherbourne. I believe that Brian has all these variants of the name in his record breaking list! 

http://www.rootsweb.com/~engdorse/Dorset/Sherborne/B.html 

Whilst I believe that  we have some of these slotted in, a few other associates of this family are listed (Ridout's etc) and it may prove handy for a rainy day! The point I make however is that whilst we may be temporarily drawing a blank on Hugh Kayleway, the scribes may possibly have played fast and loose with the spelling.(I am sure that Sylvia is well aware of this problem). 

I also came across a clutch of early Kelways in Stoke St. Gregorys Somerset which may be of some interest to Brian Willoughby,(attached), but are off subject. I think that the PRO property documents ordered by Sylvia may be of considerable help.
Bruce

"STOKE ST. GREGORY, a parish in the hundred of North Curry, county Somerset, 8 miles N.E. of Taunton

Baptisms:

Fate Kelway                                7th August 1596

William son of Peter Kelway    18th March 1599

Thomas son of Peter Kelway    13th December 1601

Agnes daug.of Peter Kelway     18th February 1607

Richard son of Thomas Kelway 22nd March 1629

Jaene daug.of Stephen Kelway  22nd October 1637

Mary daug.of Steven Kelway    30th June 1647

 

Marriages:

Peter Kelway married Joan Fvery        15th May 1596

Fate Kelway  married William Marder 13th February 1617

Stephen Kelway married Elizabeth Nichols 15th October 1636

 

Burials:

Richard Kelway           25th March 1629

At…tee? Kelway         21st March 1631

Margery Kelway           4th January 1636

Joane Kelway (Widow) 3rd January 1639

Steven Kelway              15th August 1657 

 

Kelly’s Directory  for 1880

 

STOWER (or Stour) PROVOST is a parish and village in the parliamentary borough, union and county court district of Shaftesbury, hundred of Redlane, petty sessional division of Sturminister, liberty of Stour Provost, rural deaconry of Shaftesbury first portion, archdeaconry o Dorset and diocese of Salisbury, on the river Stour, 5 miles west from Shaftesbury, 5 north from Sturminister and 3 ½ south from Gillingham railway station.

National School, Thomas Kelway, master; Miss Ellen Ridout, mistress 

Thomas Kelway
(died 1749).
1726, organist at Chichester.
Seven services and nine anthems extant, of which a few services have been published.

From: Sherrill Williams
Sent: May 20, 2006
Subject: Hugh Kayleway & some bits and pieces

Bruce, the Stoke St Gregory C/Ks are headed by a Peter. I have had my eye on them for 8 years trying to determine where they fit in. They could be from the family at Wellington, or they could have slid over the border from Dorset. They could be from Devon, but the name Peter is not used by the Devonites.

Dear Agnes who married Thomas Pomeroy! Let's finally put her to rest with the following "official" document from the PRO/NA:

C1/59/22. Thomas Pomeroy and Agnes, his wife v. William Cayleway, the younger, father of the said Agnes, and executor of the late William Cayleway, the elder, her grandfather: Bequest of the said William Caylewey, the elder, to the said Agnes: [Devon] Covering Dates: 1386-1488

I must order this to find out why the dates begin 1386; could be a link to something important.
Sherrill

From: Sherrill Williams
Sent: May 20, 2006
Subject: NA catalogue - re-checking

Hi all,
Because of Sylvia's recent find in the N/A catalogue, I decided to recheck it for "what's new." I found a few interesting items. Here are some of
them:
C1/981/105-108 [Chancery] Richard, son and heir of Robert Eyere, and Joan his wife v. William Callwey (Kayleway), gentleman: Forcible ouster from a messuage and land in LYDLINCH and assault on the said Joan. Commission: Imprisonment at Dorchester on a count of good behaviour, forcible entry and seizure of goods, after repudiating all claims before the said commission. Dates: 1538-1544. [Gee, were they not
wonderful people to know?!]
 
E41/43/(i)[Exchequer] John Kayleway, Joan his wife, and Margaret Tregarthen; lands of their inheritance from Thomas Tregarthen esquire: manor of Brannell, Trejeam (Tregiam), and Trelyon (Treliam Viam) [all in St Stephens in Brannell]; Trebvreck, Tawame, Grampound (Grampot)Bossiliam, Woles and Bossilian Wartha, [in Creed], Truro (Truruburgh), Thymargh. Date: 8 Feb 1514 [5 Hen VIII]
 
C1/15/8 [Chancery] John Cayleway v. Martin Pollard: Removal of the bells of a chapel founded on land in Hatherleigh,  belonging in reversion to petitioner: Devon. Dates: 1386-1486

C142/397/35 [Chancery] Lyne, Kellaway (idiot): Hants Date: 21 James I (c1624). [Who was the "idiot" ?]
 
Ward 7/68/118 [Records of Court of Wards and Liveries] Lyne, Kellaway (idiot); Hants [c1624]
 
C11/1189/5 Kellaway v. Rawlins Date: 1720-1725 [this may relate to the Piddlehinton clan]

T1/384/135 [Records created and inherited by HM Treasury] Letter from Duke of Bedford, Lord Lieutenant of Ireland: asking for authority to place Capt. Lt. Nicholas Kellaway on half-pay. 17 Sept 1758

C1/480/23 Lallowe Calway v. Thomas Gache: Detention of deeds relating to a messuage and land in Gurmayleke, Cornwall.  1518-1529

C1/618/17 Lollay, son of John Calway v. John Calway, John Beny, John Gill and Thomas Gache: Detention of deeds relating to a messuage and land in Gurmalett, late of Richard Calway, complainant's brother. 1529-1532
 
C1/756/7 Lalowe Calway v. John Calway the elder (rectius the younger): Detention of deeds relating to messuages and land in Coldraneke, alias Pollcake, formerly of John Calway, father of both parties. 1532-1538
 
C1/824/18 Laurence, son and heir of William Harle, cousin and heir of William Colyn v. John Calway: Messuages and land in Collewode (i.e. Colquit?] and Bodennek (both in Lanteglos by Fowey) Landrake, Broad Trematon, Nether Trewen (i.e. Trewint in St Emey?) Wyntes (in Liskeard)) and Trewedeland. 1532-1538
 
C1/1478/58-59 Joan Tubbe, daughter and heir of John Calway v. Jasper Calway, her bastard brother, Pentecost his wife and Oliver Piers; Messuages and land in St Neots, etc... Cornwall 1556-1558 [Now we know about JASPER!]
 
E 133/8/1311 [Exchequer] Humphrey Walrond and Elizabeth ,his wife v. Walter Andrewes, Robert Oland, George Prowse, Charles Lee and others. A note in a court roll of the manor of WELLINGTON, of a deposition of Richard Rutter alias CALWAY, taken at a court of the said manor, concerning a copyhold tenement called thed Farthynge, formerly in the possession of Peter Lee alias Farthynge. 39 Eliz Easter (c1598)

STAC 2/8 [Star Chamber, Augmentations,etc] Plaintiff: John Calway and Roger Tubbe. Defendant: Laurence Courtenay, Dorothy his wife, Philippa their daughtr, and others. Place or Subject: Forcible entry and seizure of cattle at Lanteglos, St Carryk &c.; County: Cornwall 11 Apl 1509 - 28 Jan 1547
 
C1/473/9 Thomas Bennet of London, tailor, and Agnes his wife, daughter of Richard, and granddaughter and heir of Robert Chamberleyne v. John Kelway and Johane, his wife, granddaughter and co-heir of Margaret Tregarthen: A tenement called 'The Crown' with a garden in Southampton. 1518-1529
 
C1/1239/15 Giles Kelway v. Thomas Chard: Detention of deeds relating to lands in Erlyngton (i.e. Allington?), late of Monden's chantry in Bridport:
Dorset 1544-1551
 
C3/105/63 Kelway v. Tillarde: Devon 1558-1557 C3/177/82 Tillarde v. Kelway (or Kaylewey):Devon [same dates]
 
E134/22Jas1/East24 Sir Robt. Maunsel, Knt. v. Sir William Clavill, Knt.: Glass works in the Isle of Purbeck (Dorset), and at Ratcliffe (Middlesex).
Touching an indenture of convenants made between Phillip Earl of Montgomery, Sir Thomas Howard, Knt., Sir Edwd. Zouche, Knt., Sir Thomas Tracy, Knt., Thos. Percival, Bevis Thelwall, ROBT. KELWAY, and - Hayes of one part, and plaintiff of the other part; also an agreement between and Abraham Bigoe. Alleged infringement by Bigoe of the articles of last-named agreement, and arrears of rent for glass works in the isle, due to plaintiff by Bigoe, and extent upon his goods. Touching also defendant's interference with the monopoly of the sald of "green glasses" in London,
and his claim to the "furnaces" for making, and libertie of making, glass in the isle, &c. &c: London; Dorset; Middlesex. 1623-24
 
STAC 7/7/10 Plaintiff: Tregoos, John. Defendant: Jane Glynne, Wiliam Kelway, John Cocke the elder, John Cocke the younger, and others. Place or Subject: Forgery of the will of John Glynne, deceased, disposing of lands in St Columb. County: Cornwall 17 Nov 1558 - 24 March 1603
 
STAC 7/3/30 Plaintiff: Keylwaye, Charles. Defendant: Sir Anthony Asheley, Giles Tucker, Frances Kellwey and others. Place or Subject: Frauds concerning charges on the estate of Francis Kellway, deceased. County: Hants. 17 Nov 1558 - 24 March 1603
 
There are many more references, but these give the information we need to help plug in our holes. Enjoy.
Sherrill

From: Bruce Callaway
Sent: May 21, 2006
Subject: Hugh Kayleway & some bits and pieces

Sherrill,
This is conclusive, but before I tackle my Family Tree amendment, can we be quite clear with which Williams we are dealing. Originally both Warwick and I had Mrs Agnes Pomeroy's Daddy as the 1430-1478 John. Clearly not so. Agnes born 1444 was of Cheriton Fitzpaine. She and her husband Thomas (died 1493), had a son Richard Pomer(o)y who married Eleanor Coker (fact). 

If the covering date is 1488, William the elder is possibly William (1400-1469) who married 1.Joan Barrett  and 2.  Horninsham Stanter but we come to a missing generation which has plagued us for years! 

Sir William (1440-1507), the product of 2. was a contemporary of Agnes and certainly not her Father. William of Stalbridge b.c.(1550  by me and 1460 by Warwick) who married 1. Elizabeth Wyffen and 2. Ellinor Coker?? is out. 

To whom are we then referring?
Bruce

From: Bruce Callaway
Sent: May 21, 2006
Subject: NA catalogue - re-checking

C1/1478/58-59 Joan Tubbe, daughter and heir of John
Calway v. Jasper Calway, her bastard brother,
Pentecost his wife and Oliver Piers; Messuages and
land in St Neots, etc... Cornwall  1556-1558
[Now we know about JASPER!] 

And we thought that dear old John, he of the famous St. Neots Church and the controversial arms, had daughtered out! The local woodshed (or was it a haystack?) ensured that the Cornish Y chromosome carried on for posterity!
 
 STAC 7/3/30  Plaintiff: Keylwaye, Charles. Defendant:
 Sir Anthony Asheley, Giles Tucker, Frances Kellwey and
 others. Place or Subject: Frauds concerning charges on
 the estate of Francis Kellway, deceased. County:
 Hants.  17 Nov 1558 - 24 March 1603

Ffrancis of course died in 1601 and had mortgaged Rockbourne Manor and the remaining estates (the last of the fortunes of this family) up to hilt to Sir Anthony Ashley. The chicanery of our rels (and I haven't quite placed where the plaintiff, young Charlie Keylwaye comes into it) is well related in the attached Rockbourne Manor doc. Some of you may already have read it. For the others it is a rainy day read!  

 There are many more references, but these give the
 information we need to help plug in our holes. Enjoy.Well done Sherrill (more homework!)
Bruce 

ROCKBOURNE MANOR (Extracted from A History of Hampshire Page 582 et seq.) 

…..Robert Martin(25) died in 1355,(26) his first wife (Margaret) surviving him until 1373, when the manor passed to her eldest son by her first husband, Sir Walter de Romsey,(27) who in March 1401-2 settled it(28) on himself and his wife Alice for life, with reversion in tail-male to their grandson Thomas son of Thomas de Romsey, and, if he died without issue male, to his brother Walter.(29) Sir Walter died in 1403(30) and Alice his widow in 1404. 

Thomas, their grandson and heir,(31) died in 1420-1, leaving an infant daughter Joan.(32) Rockbourne passed according to the above settlement to her uncle Walter, brother of Thomas,(33) but on the death of Walter son of Walter, in 1430, she inherited the manor and held it with her husband, Thomas Payne.(34) 

Her second cousin and one of her two heirs, Joan, formerly the wife of  Thomas Keilway(35) and then of Roger Wyke, daughter of Mary Byngham, daughter of the first Sir Walter Romsey,(36) inherited Rockbourne, which ultimately reverted to her descendants by her first husband. However, in the meanwhile it was claimed by Joan wife of Thomas Swete as next heir to Joan Payne, being she stated, great-granddaughter of Margaret daughter of Sir Walter Romsey. Roger Wyke and his son John on behalf of the heirs of Joan his wife successfully denied the existence of Margaret and recovered the manor in 1462,(37) and although five years later Edward 1V granted the manor in dower to Joan Swete, then a widow,(38) it was held by John Keilway, descendant of Joan Wyke, on his death in 1547.(39) His son William succeeded him, but after this date the history of the manor is uncertain. 

Some documents state that William Keilway during his lifetime gave the manor to his grandson Thomas, child of his son Francis(40) and in 1577 a certain Richard Hunt declared that he had seen the enrolment of this conveyance. (41)Certainly in 1580 and 1581 Thomas was dealing with the manor as his own,(42) but in 1570 Francis asserted that his father had in May 1565 settled the reversion on him in tail-male,(43) and he died seized of the manor in 1601-2.(44) This discrepancy may be accounted for by the relations between Francis Keilway and his son,(45) who in 1591 was imprisoned in the Fleet ‘for procuringe and suborning certain persons to exhibit grevyous complaintes’ against Anthony Ashley, clerk of the Privy Council,(46) and on obtaining his release in 1592 was found to have no money to pay the prison fees.(47) 

His father, with whom he had quarrelled, was ordered to pay for him as a ‘gentleman pencioner’,(48) but in 1598 Thomas being ‘utterlie lame and a creeple’ complained that since his father had again cut off his allowance he was ‘inforced to use very hard and base shiftes even for his foode and sustenance in such sorte as it is pitiful to make mencion.’(49) 

The Privy Council took the case in hand and ordered Francis to allow his son £3 weekly. (50)Refusing to obey, Francis for a long while ignored their letters,(51) but finally agreed to pay his son’s debts and to allow him to ‘lyve in house’ with him.(52) Francis died in 1601-2 and Thomas succeeded to Rockbourne,(53) which, already heavily mortgaged to Sir Anthony Ashley,(54) he sold in 1608 to Sir Anthony’s son-in-law, Sir John Cooper.(55) No sooner had this sale been effected than it was found that Francis had in 1574 settled the contingent remainder of the manor after himself and his heirs male on his brothers Ambrose and Edward, and that the latter ‘of an ill intent’ to prevent the sale of the manor had granted his interest in it to Queen Elizabeth in 1594. (56)James 1, however, ‘not myndinge to favour such fraudulent conveyances,’ gave up all ‘remainder and interest’ in the same in 1608.(57)  

Sir John Cooper was succeeded ny his eldest son Anthony Ashley Cooper, created Earl of Shaftesbury in 1672(58) and the manor has descended with the title. 

25 Feud Aids,ii, 327

26 Chan. Inq. P.m. 47 Edw. 111 (1st nos.), no, 18; Cal. Close, 1354-60, p.144

27 Chan. Inq. P.m. 47 Edw. 111 (1st nos.), no. 29

28 See in this connexion Cal. Pat. 1399-1401, pp.372, 451; De Banc. R. 562, m 18d

29 Ibid.458;Chan.Inq.p.m. 5 Hen 1V, no. 32

30 Ibid. Alice his widow was a daughter of Sir William Fillol

31 Inq.p.m. 6 Hen 1V, no. 29.

32 Ibid. 26  Hen. V1, no. 26

33 Ibid. 7 Hen. V1, no. 26

34 Ibid. 8 Hen. V1, no. 22. The manor was settled