See interesting information on Seals at the University of Notre Dame

From: Bruce Callaway
Sent: Jul 28, 2003
Subject: Kittric Nether Compton Parish Church, Dorset  

Importantly however if we can ever sort out the Patrons and the Rectors of Nether Compton, Ashmore and Sutton Bingham, we will be a long way forward in explaining the K/C alias as Clarke and the association of these both with Sherborne and Rockbourne, but Wow! is it complicated.  

Just scanning your English research at the moment on the disc, but before we get to far away from COA's, crests and seals, I note that we really should be paying more attention to the crests. You quote Fairburne's "Book of Crests" wherein the K/C's of Hampshire and Sherborne Dorset have their Grozing irons and pears crested by a silver chook, (chicken) combed, wattled, beaked and spurred in blue. Whereas the K/C's of Devon and the Stowfords have either a black tiger (passant and regardant) or a silver barnacle bird cresting their nippers and pears. More later   Bruce

See information from Dorset at this web site: http://www.swuklink.com/BAAAGBYS.php

From: Sherrill Williams
Sent: Jul 29, 2003
Subject: Robert I, crests etc.

Robert I remains somewhat a "mystery man" even tho' we know he was a Mayor of Salisbury as well as briefly an MP. His "projected" dates of birth and death are not beside me as I write, but he may not have been long married to the widow Byfleet before his death.  Robert I seems to have been a "merchant" but he may have inherited that position by his marriage to Alice, as I think I have read that John Byfleet was a merchant in Salisbury. Alice's son, Thomas Byfleet, as suggested on the pedigree chart, was her heir. Thomas Byfleet is mentioned in the Chancery Case involving Alice Keilway and William Dean, also suggesting his heirship and interest in the mercantile business in Salisbury.    

Another clue to the relationship to the Rockborne family is found in one of the many chancery cases involving the property. In one, I think involving Lady Anne's joynture in the property, reference is made to "Mr. Robert Callaway" (or however spelled). Whether this is Robert I or Robert W & L will need to be checked on.  I have transcribed this chancery case, but not typed it which I must do, to determine the time perspective, etc.  Nevertheless, here is one instance of a Robert's connection to Rockborne manor.    

I still feel that Robert W & L has a "full blood relationship" to the Rockborne family. Nothing he does, via his will, or other conveyances, ever involves the Sherborne family. His allegiance seems totally toward the Rockbornes.  A number of the leaseholders of the Rockborne family's properties are also found around Salisbury as public officials, etc.  And then, there is the Webb family mystery.    

Robert W & L certainly had influence to get his "foot in the door" with the Crown of the period, and no doubt the influence came from the Rockborne family, the only ones who seemingly had the influence.  But Robert W& L's relationship to the family should have been the reason he advanced so far.  He certainly recognized this as shown by his generosity towards the Rockborne family in his will.    

Of course the Rockbornes and the Sherbornes have common relationships at some point in time.  Our problem with the generations of the Sherborne family is causing confusion.  It would also be helpful if we could learn to whom, and when, the first COA was awarded.  The Sherborne family, the Rockborne family, and John of Cullompton, all shared the same "pears & glaziers' snippers" COA, as well as the C/K-Stoffords (Staffords). The fragment of the arms in St. Catherine's chapel, said to be a "quarter" of arms, has the mullet (3rd son), thus my question - third son of whom? - and with what family was it "quartered"??  How can we begin to answer the question of the common ancestor of the Sherbornes, Rockbornes, Staffords & John of Cullompton?    

Awaiting some brilliant answers. Sherrill

From: Bruce Callaway
Sent: Jul 29, 2003
Subject: Robert I, crests etc

I have been closely following The Sherbourne/Rockbourne disccusion, and concur that Robert W&L is not only a common link but closely related to both families. I believe that Robert 1 the mayor was his daddy, and I have no difficulty placing Robert 1 as a grandson of William of Sherbourne.

 I have a problem with this Warwick. I believe the arms to be much older than this which brings me to page 9 & 10 of your Chronicles and Muxbeare. I have confirmed that in 1242 William Calleway or Kelloway held one fee in Mukelbere and Sweteton 'of the honor of Gloucester' (Fees,p780). The manor (in Halberton parish) was not sold by the family until the very late 1500's therefore was a family nest for a much longer period than either Sherbourne or Rockbourne. This then possibly makes the Dolton arms of considerable interest.

Sherrill,

From: Pat Schnurr
Sent: Aug 3, 2003
Subject: Joseph Callaway, Clifton Maybanke

Hi Bruce -- we know that Anne Stroud hid Joseph after the battle of Sedgefield.  He had apparently been with Monmouth entourage the night before the battle at the Stroud Manor.  He was forty years old.  We know that he was listed as being from Clifton Maybanke and I found his birth date in Bradford Abbas  I spent several days doing circles in the Lillington - Sherborne area trying to find more on him.  Could not locate a marriage date or any children.  His parents Martin and Ursula show no  brothers or sisters for him.  Went up to North Petherton and to Yeovil looking for answers -- nothing.  However, he was hanged at Somerton, quartered and his head put on a pike so he definitely did not come. to Va.  My thought is that he did have children and possibly a son named Joseph who was taken out of the country - and to Virginia. In our Monmouth stuff it is mentioned that lots of the men escaped - many going up to Bristol and taking boats - paying to hide their identities.  We made the same search around Exeter trying to find the Thomas K. - Davy link.  Did you see my notes about the battle at Lyme Regis -- and the mention of Colway Field and  Colway house.  I thought that was interesting since Thomas was killed at Lyme  Will we ever know.  It is like hitting your head against a brick wall -- several times.  Pat.

From: Bruce Callaway
Sent: Aug 18, 2003
Subject: Joan versus Joanna and the Agneses

From: Sherrill Williams
Sent: Aug 20, 2003
Subject: figuring out the Pomeroy connection

From: Sherrill Williams
Sent: Aug 24, 2003
Subject: Bruce Callaway's Robert Tree

I have just saved all the mail to diskette and will take it downstairs to print out.  Don't trust my memory, but will comment on Bruce's Robert tree. Bruce, I am sure you got it right, except that Agnes may be a daughter of John Byfleet and Alice Gover, thus a half-sister of Robert (W & L). The Byfleet pedigree suggests that - she is the one who married SOUTH.  Alice, who married GAWEN, is not on the Byfleet pedigree, so I believe she is a "full" sister of Robert (W & L). Did I send an attachment containing a Chancery Case involving Dame Anne's jointure in the Rockborne estate?  Francis gave testimony regarding that, and said that at, or near the time of, Dame Anne's marriage to Sir William C/K her jointure was worked out and granted by Sir John C/K with Mr. Robert C/K..  Which Robert this was (MP or W & L) is not clear, but at least we have a Robert dealing with the Rockborne estate.  I typed this but don't know if I sent it, so, if not, let me know and I will send that along.

I have been working on our Sherborne/Lillington lineage.  "Joan Barret" has been our "sticking point."  I now believe she is a bigger "sticking point" than we realized.  Does anyone know who Henry Barret was?  I have looked and looked for his name in print, without results.  John and William Barret were prominent around Sherborne, involved in the Almshouse and other Sherborne matters, but no HENRY shows up, so far.  I will ask some other questions about the Joan Barret connection shortly.  But now, to my other mystery.

For a long, long time I have wondered who Dame Elizabeth Caylewaye of Hutton, Somerset was - I am still wondering.  Can anyone help identify this connection?

Will of Elizabeth Caylewaye [15 Porch] [from Somerset Wills, Somerset Record Society], The Rev. F. W. Weaver (1905), Vol. XVI.
October 20th, 1526.  Dame Elizabeth Cayleway, widow, of the parish of Hutton in the county of Somerset.  To be buried within the chauncell of the parish church of Hutton or ells within such place as it shall please God at the time of my departing out of this transitory world. 

To the high awter of the said parish church of Hutton for my offeryngs and tithes negligently forgotten 3s.4d. 
To the reparacion of the said church 40s., or ells to the use of the said church as my sonne THOMAS PAYNE shall think best to Godds pleasure and my soule helth. 
To the monastery of Mynchyn Bucklond 6s.8d.
To the charterhouse of Wittam 6s.8d.  To the mother church of Wells 3s.4d.
To my daughter Mary a ryng of golde with a stone therein, a crosse of gold with foure litell pearles, and a flatt pece of silver. 
To the house of Worspryng 5 marcs.
Residue:  To my sonne THOMAS PAYNE all my goodes moveables, etc.
[named executor].
Witnesses:  Thomys Hanson, clerk, my goostly fader, chosen at this present tyme and notry publique, John Tyllty, and William Yong.
Proved January 30th, 1526.

PAYNE pedigree (from Visitations of Somerset)
Of Hutton, nr. Weston-Super-Mare.
Arms:  Gu. three crosses botonne Arg. on a chief Az. two escallps Or.
[Collinson, III, 591]

I    John Payne = Lady Jane Kelloway
A    Thos. Payne (*4) = Elizabeth  [Sa. a bend nebule Arg.]
      1.  Thos. Payne, of Som. 1573 = Marg. d. Baynham

(*4)  footnote:  "Pray for the soule of Thomas Payne, squier, and Eliz. his wife, which departed the 15 day of August 1528."  Col. III, 591.

These two items fit together in some manner, but what Caylewaye did Elizabeth, widow Payne, marry?
Sherrill

From: Bruce Callaway
Sent: Aug 24, 2003
Subject: Another Agnes/Alice placed

From: Warwick Kellaway
Sent: Aug 24, 2003
Subject: Another Agnes/Alice placed

From: Bruce Callaway
Sent: Aug 25, 2003
Subject: Who is Henry Barrett

From: Sherrill Williams
Sent: Aug 25, 2003
Subject: Help on these windows

This is supposedly from the house at Lillington, "once the mansion of the Kelways, Coles, etc. In 1738 these arms were in it.

THE NORTH WINDOW:

1. Argent, a chevron sable. .  . .winged argent; impaling, Gules, a chevron charged with a fleur-de-lis or between three swans proper; under it V. L.

2. Quarterly i. and iv. Kelway;  ii. A leopard's head gules between five martlets sable.  iii. Azure, a camel passant argent, Camel, impaling 1, Ermine, a cross saltire azure; 2, A leopard's head gules between three
martlets sable;  3. Azure, a camel passant argent; 4.  Kelway; under it B. G.

THE SOUTH WINDOW:

1. Kelway and quarterings; impaling 1, Gules, a chevron between three swans proper; 2, Sable and or, a demi-lion issuant Sable; under it K. 1580 L.

2. Kelway and quarterings; on an escutcheon of pretence, Gules, a chevron between three swans proper; under it, K. L.

THE HALL WINDOW:

In the middle, Kelway.

 On the right hand, 1. Leweston.  2. Azure, a cross ermine.  3. Ermine a cross saltire sable.  4. Gules, two lions passant sable.

On the left hand, 1 and 2, the quartrings of the Kelways; 3. Argent, a fess between three anvils sable;
4. Fitzjames.

In the NORTH WINDOW, #2 - whose arms is quartered with Camel -
1. "Ermine, a cross saltire azure" ?
In the SOUTH WINDOW, #1 - whose arms are Kelway & quarterings impaling -
2. "Sable and or, a demi-lion issuant Sable"  ?

Just trying to cover all the bases.  I hope this doesn't send Bruce back to bed with a COA headache!
Sherrill

From: Warwick Kellaway
Sent: Aug 27, 2003
Subject: More family fun

Hi all

To add to the current agenda.  I have been taking a new look at Brian's 1999 File.  Is everyone aware that he had recorded 112 C/K wills from 1469-1837. I had asked him for some, mainly of Dorset, which I sent transcripts of through some time ago.  As time goes by, others now look interesting - for example I do suspect all three of the K members of that Burning Ship may be there.

Also there are over 600 family references he has listed from 1120 to 1499. Only abbreviations, but I used many of them when producing the Chronicles. Some others now look interesting.

Other information refound:
The presumed Tree of the Mokisbere family.  It makes sense from the time of Nicholas about 1150, up to the 1400s at least.  My problem is that it presumes the Rockborne family originated in Devon.  My current thought being still that Edmund went "back" from Wiltshire to Devon, (Cheldon, and Mokisbeare?) and thence his descendants got to Sherborne.  He has Edmund, of Mockisbeare, as the son of John, father of Thomas, with reference to Rockborne.  It fits, if the previous patron of Kellaways Church, William, was perhaps an uncle, and not Edmund's father.

"Sir" John Calaway furnished 15 footmen for the Flanders Army in 1453.  He had Robert Keilway I MP for Salisbury, born by 1483.  Some years are accurate, other unfortunately had to be guessed. One, you may remember, is Elizabeth Kelwey, widow of John, re the tenure of Cullompton Mills in 1493.  Same widow?  Which John?  Cullompton?  Our John's father?

With regard to Sir William Calwey, priest and knight of Ledbury, there was a comment with the brass that his name could have derived from two places near Ledbury and Hereford, named Callowe.  (These may be among the Callow names I had spotted on a map).  Who lived there?

More fun.
Best wishes
Warwick

From: Warwick Kellaway
Sent: Aug 28, 2003
Subject: Devon/Rockborne C/Ks

> Sherrill,
>
> I won't get too involved with the COA for now - will wait for Bruce's comments.
>
> As regards the Devon/Sherborne/Rockborne connection, the issue is complex, but there is no doubt in my mind that all the families we are dealing with at that time (around 1400) are connected - Stowfords and all.
> The facts to date being:
>
> Edmund de C/K and his wife left the Wiltshire manor about 1394, although still apparently remaining patron of St Giles until 1399 (said to be for life).  They went to Cheldon/Chawleigh.  In Devon, not far from, but not
to either Mokisbeare, or Stafford Barton. After six years, another family member, John de C/K, returned as patron of St Giles from 1405-1429.  A John also appeared at Chawleigh during this period, presumably therefore he was a son, or close relative.  (Whether the same man or not we do not know.)  There was at least one John, presumably the father of William of Sherborne, in Sherborne in the early 1400s.
Another John, presumed to be William of Sherborne's brother, appeared shortly after (there was a series of three Johns recorded in the 1467 IPM). The Thomas, who married Joanne Bingham, was in Sherborne around 1400.  He is also referred to in the Mokisbeare Tree, as the son of Edmond, who incidentally was described as the son of John.  (At St Giles there was an earlier patron John, who apparently died in 1336, and who matched the well known John le Calewe of Dorset - descended from the Giffards.  However the patron immediately prior to Edmund - from 1336-1376 - was William).
>
The curious thing is that there seems to have been a stated differentiation between the Devon and Dorset families, although they shared similar arms. There was mention of intermarriage.  The Devon branch was also described elsewhere as the "younger". Sadly the Dorset Pedigrees only begin with William of Sherborne, whereas the Devon family, which generally became Stowford then Stafford, is recorded in detail, perhaps back to William about 1200, certainly to Philip, the claimed "younger" son, a couple of generations later.
I could not originally find any connective names with the Sherborne family, although it does now look as though there may have been a Thomas/John/Thomas succession around 1400.  However before and after this time there is no apparent similarity. The dates for the Dolton family are virtually guesses, and we need a lot more research in that area. When and where any intermarriage occurred we do not know.
>
My theory is that the family owned/occupied the properties at Mokisbeare Devon, Dunes Weston Dorset, and Kellaways Wiltshire, from a very early time, and could move from one to another as suited the occasion.  The eldest son occupying the principal home, younger sons elsewhere (eg Dolton) and for example, should an eldest son die without issue, or there was some problem, (as seems to have occurred in Wiltshire with a Courtenay), or maybe for some reason such as the building of a new manor (which could have occurred at
Chawleigh), the principal family moved to another county.
>
In this way, while Edmund may have gone to Chawleigh, a son, John, could have returned to Wiltshire, before moving on to Sherborne.  If, as we suspect, Thomas was Edmund's eldest son, he moved to the Bingham areas of Dorset and Somerset. (If William of Sherborne's father was a younger son, that could be the reason for his parentage not appearing in the Pedigrees - particularly as the Heralds in the 1500s had such a problem sorting the out the later names).

The importance of the Wiltshire manor should not be understated.  From Elias de C/K to John le Calewe they were important in other places.  Family members from there seem to have continuously used the "de" prefix, into the 1400s.  When they lived elsewhere it was discarded. In Devon there was a use of de Stowford, clearly that location, and a differentiation from the other, but it also could have meant the place Stowford, rather than Stafford Barton - were they there as well? (Something else to explore).
>
I suggest, pending hopefully more information, that the first family was known as de Cailli, and it was their younger sons, possibly born in England, possibly direct from Caillouet, who made up our first families.  Apart
from the Gloucestershire families of the 1200s who could have "reverted" to Caley or Cayley, the Devon Kelleys could have originated, either from the de Caillis, or come over direct from Normandy.
As regards the Durham family, the similarity to names in Normandy at the time, without an obvious direct link further south, makes me suspect that they may indeed have come direct from Normandy in the early 1200s.
Not sure what we are looking at around Hereford, but the location could be very old, predating Brimpsfield and Side.
>
We have little information as to who was living at Mokisbeare over this time, but if the principal family retained all these properties for so long, it is quite logical that the more remote family members from Stafford Barton could occupy/lease one or more properties, such as Idlecote or Cheldon, in the 1500s.
>
Hope I am not confusing anyone's thoughts more than before.
Regards
Warwick

From: Bruce Callaway
Sent: Aug 28, 2003
Subject: Devon Rockborne C/Ks

Lyte      Godney

From: Bruce Callaway
Sent: Aug 29, 2003
Subject: Windows, COA, crossed crosses

A little more on the Hall window of Lillington. Argent a fess between three anvils sable resembles the COA of SMITH, Abingdon, Berks. The crossed crosses to which I clumsily referred are actually a common device. Vide the cross saltire of St.Andrew (Scotland) and the cross saltire of St.Patrick (Ireland). Therefor the 'ermine a cross saltire sable' is virtually a black St. Andrew's cross virtually indistinguishable from our own glaziers nippers.

Bruce

From: Sherrill Williams
Sent: Aug 30, 2003
Subject: Getting the generations right!

Here are a few things to consider while trying to get the right people in the right place at the right time.
>
> Patrons/Presenters at Kellaways, Wilts:
> Date        Parish                            Patron
> 1304    Cayllewey                    Johannes de Cayllewey
> 1312        "                                        "
> 1336    St Giles, Calewey        W. de Cayleway
> 1348    Cayllewey                      W. de Caillewey
> 1376    Kaylewey                       Edmund de Kaylewey
> 1380    Kaylewey                       Edmund de Kaylewey
> 1399    Tudryngton Cayleway   Robert Stodeleigh
> 1405    Kayelways                     John de Kaylewaye
> [That was the last of the C/K patrons of Kellaways through 1936.]
>
>     The Stoford/Stafford pedigree (Visit. of Devon) and the "Kellaway of Stowford" pedigree (same source) lists 8 generations of Kellaways before "they" say the name changes with Thomas Stowford (d. 18 Jan 1502/3 - of
the Inq. P.M.) who married Ann, d/o Thomas Copleston of Luckham, Somerset.
>     The pedigree credits Thomas & Ann with two children:
> 1.  Richard Stafford (no additional data)
> 2.  Philip Stowford, age 30 in 1503 (b. c1470); d. 22 April 1533; md. Alice
> Yeo (the remainder of the Stoford/Stafford pedigree concerns their
children and heirs).
>     A footnote says: "The portion of this pedigree from the commencement in ordinary type is from the Coll. of Arms and 'other authorities' (I would be suspicious of the 'other authorities') that part in italic is a copy of
the Visitation of Devon, 1564, Harl. Ms."    The italics begin with the above Thomas = Ann Copleston.
>     Using Warwick's calculation of 30 years per generation, I have backed up the preceeding generations, starting with 1470 for Thomas' birth, and applied approximate birthdates to those list in the prior 8 generations.
In the States, we use 25 years per generations for estimation purposes. That would, over time, add a generation or two. For our purpose here, I have applied estimated years of birth for the 8 generations. However, I have no
> idea how correctly stated the 8 generations are!  Whatever, perhaps we can begin to get our perspective in order.
>     The first 8 generations are: (Kalleway)
> I     William (b. 1230)
> II    Thomas (b. 1260)
> III    Philip (b. 1290)
> IV   Thomas (b. 1320)
> V    Philip (b. 1350)
> VI   Thomas (b. 1380); md. d/o Prous, heir to her brother, Hugh Prous of Gatcombe.
> VII   John (b. 1410)
> VIII   Thomas (b. 1440) = Joan, d/o ___?___
>
>     Moving on up into the next century, let's go to Whiteparish, Wilts.
The list of freeholders there has suddenly become very annoying to me, as you will see.  Mr. Hoar did not give a reference for his list of freeholders, unless it is from "Court Rolls of the Manor of Whelpley."  Wonder where
> those might be located?
> Freeholders:
> 1493  (8 Hen VII)    William Cayleway, John Estcourt
> 1498 (13 Hen VII)    William Keyleway, John Estcourt
> 1502 (22 Hen VII)    William Keyleway, Thomas Estcourt
> 1519 (10 Hen VIII)    William Keilway, Thomas Estcourt*
> 1560  (2 Eliz)            John Keilway, Edmund Estcourt*
> 1561  (2 Eliz)            John Kelloway, Giles Estcourt
> 1569 (11 Eliz)           Henry Kelloway, Giles Estcourt
> 1576 (18 Eliz)           No C/K  -  No Estcourt
> *  right here is a 40 year gap where we really need to see the descent of this land!
>
>     The William Cayleway, freeholder in 1493, could be William the son of William (d. 1469) - or it could be his grandson, William.  The grandson certainly appears by 1519.
>
>     Back to the Lyte COA.  Yes, Bruce, I did recognize the Lyte COA in the Lillington window.  The Lyte pedigree, Visit. of Wilts, 1623) shows that William "Black Will" Lyte married Dorothea, relicta Buller, d/o Edw. Kellway of Rockborne [Edw. being an error].  The other C/K connection is that Henricus Lyte de Lytes Cary mar. "Agnes, Dau. et Coh. of Kellway of Cullompton married 1546; buried at Charlton 1564: ux 1.".......so we have a Devon and a Rockborne playing in the same ball game.
>     Sherrill

From: Warwick Kellaway
Sent: Aug 30, 2003
Subject: Getting the generations right!

Hi Sherrill

You are pretty right with your dates.  Some further comments on the people involved:

I am fairly sure that the 1304 Johannes is the son of the Dorset man with the 1308 will, or more certainly the 1308 man was, and probably his heir (the Johns were successive at that time).  He would have been the Giffard
inheritor, who died in 1336, and had presumably moved from Dorset to Wiltshire about the time the first St Giles was built in 1304.  However there had been continuous family possession from perhaps 1165, or not long
after.
(I won't bring up the confusion that these Johns were also said to be "late of Brimpsfield", and of Mokesbeare.)

Not sure where that patron William fits, or even if there were two of them, as the list of patrons might imply.
The Mokesbeare Tree gives John as the father of Edmund, so it seems William could have been Edmund's uncle.  Whether Edmund had remained at the Dorset manor (Dunes Weston or whatever), or lived elsewhere we do not know.  I think however we can assume that the patrons would have lived, for much of their time anyway, at the adjacent manor.  It seems therefore that probably Edmund lived at the Wiltshire manor from 1374, until he left for Chawleigh about 1394, building more chapels - one called St Giles.  Possibly then remaining at Chawleigh until he died, being patron of Cheldon rectory from 1396 to 1411.

The John who went back to Wiltshire from 1405-29, also may have had one foot in Chawleigh, as a John was patron of Cheldon Rectory in 1440.  I still think he was Edmund's son, and brother of our Thomas, both being born around
the time Edmund became patron of St Giles in 1374.

The appearance at Sherborne shortly after this time possibly meant that someone in the family was still living in Dorset, unless Thomas moved into a Bingham property after his marriage.

With regard to the Stowford/Stafford family, your dates are within a few of what I estimated. As for 25 or 30 years, we can only guess.  My feeling is that there was a tendency then for the men to marry later, and we are looking at the male line.  We only need one or two like Robert W&L to really extend the years.

Whitparish I find very interesting.  It did go back to the early Sherborne times, and I must admit I saw it as part of the Estcourt disputes over Bapton, although it may not have been.  William C/K's position is curious.
I now also think he may have been Sir John's brother, as there does not seem to be anyone in Robert's family who matched.  He could have died about 1519 (the first Sir William died in 1507).  Robert apparently always lived in
Sherborne.  Could it have reverted to Robert's son Henry, after that 40 years, because William had no heirs?  (I see the Estcourt name there).

John of Cullompton left a chalice or something to Sherborne Abbey.  That suggests the Lyte COA connection at Lillington may have been with him, or more probably another marriage we are not aware of, rather than any
Rockborne connection with Lillington?

Am still looking at Brian's papers, particularly his Somerset wills in the 1500s. Have also updated my Précis of the Chronicles - now six pages.

Regards
Warwick

From: Sherrill Williams
Sent: Aug 31, 2003
Subject: Edmunds, how many?

I've been checking up on my Edmund references, and have discovered a contradiction to the list of Patrons/presenters at Kellaways, Wilts.
The list I recently posted showed:
> > 1348    Callewey (parish)  W. de Caillewey, patron - rector presented:
> > Richard Creym
> >     That was from a typewritten list, covering the years 1304-1936, in Wiltshire Record Office, Trowbridge.
> >
> >     Another reference:  "Wiltshire Institutions," by Thomas Phillips, says:
> > 1337    Capell de Kayleway - Patron: Edmundes de Kayleway - Priest: > Ricardi Creym.
> >     That would shorten the term of "W. de Caillewey" as patron.
> >
> >     Checking further my Edmund references, I have these:
> >
> > 1357    Edmund Cayleway (& others) had tenement in property of John Mautravers de Lychet & Agnes his wife - - in Dorset, Wilts & Gloucester [Dorset Feet of Fines, Edw. III - Rich. III].
> >
> > 1375    Devizes (Wilts).  Inq. P.M. on Geoffrey, s/o Edmund Gascelyn.
One of the jurors was Edmund Cailway. [Geoffrey Gascelyn held manors of Sheldon & Chippenham jointly with Elizabeth his wife (plus other properties).
> >
> > 1380    Capel Brokenborow, Capel Kayleway & Stokkebbes, Hereford:
>  Patron - Edmundes Caylleway.
> >
> > 1380    Cirencestre.  John Everdoun, parson of Everdoun, to Edmund Kaylewey, Joan his wife, and Robert de Cherleton, kt. - quit claim to manor of Tuderynton Kayleway [Calendar of Close Rolls].
> >
> > 1395-1419.  Edmund Kayleway presented to Cheldon for ordination [Exeter Episcopal Registry of Bishop Stafford]
> >
> > 1400    A license to celebrate divine service granted to Edmund Cayleway & Joan his wife in the chapel of The Blessed Mary & St. Giles within their manor of Chempton in Chawleigh (Devon).
> >
> >     Are these references to the same Edmund?  He was certainly active for a long time (of course, so am I - but times are a bit different!)
> >
> >     Sherrill

From: Warwick Kellaway
Sent: Sep 1, 2003
Subject: Edmunds, how many?

Hi Sherrill,
>
> I came to the conclusion a while ago that there were two Edmunds (see the original Chronicles).  The second probably our Edmund's uncle, presuming his father was John.
> The list of patrons of St Giles I have came from Mrs Hopkins, the owner of Kellaways, but is presumably the same list.
>
> You again have some more references I have not seen before, some very interesting:
>
> 1348 William fits the list of patrons.
> 1337 Edmundes could be an error, as Richard Creym does not seem to have become rector until 1346.  Otherwise the only suggestion I have is that there may have been some indecision after the death of John in 1336, and the elder Edmund was patron, with Creym as rector, both for a short period.
> (The list of patrons and rectors of course may not be complete.)
> 1357 Edmund I assume again to be the "uncle".  He has an interest in property, and is not necessarily at the Wiltshire manor.  However he does still have property in Gloucestershire.  (Note there is no reference to
> Devon at this time, which makes me ponder whether our Edmund might have married a Devon lady.)
> 1375 Edmund is presumably our man, becoming patron of St Giles the next year.
> 1380 Edmund again, but what is that reference to Hereford - Stokkebbes?
> Remember Sir William, priest and knight of Ledbury Herefordshire from 1387-1409.  (Hereford also is not too far from Gloucester.)
> 1380 Edmund appears at Cirencester.
> 1395-1419 Edmund has by now moved from Wiltshire to Chenstone manor, Chawleigh, Devon.  But what is that ordination?  Was he perhaps presenting others for ordination?  Possibly there was another Edmund, as the ordination process did take some years, but usually they were listed at the individual churches/abbeys.  (The successive religious orders of Tonsurati, Accoliti, Subdiaconi, Diaconi and Presbiteri  always intrigued me.)
> Seemingly very religious, Edmund and Joan built three chapels at Chenstone manor in 1400, and I could not imagine the same man would "present" himself over 24 years.  His wife Joan also could not have died before 1400 - although they would both have been ageing.  However he was recorded as patron of nearby Cheldon rectory from 1396-1411 - very much the same period.
>
> Incidentally I see Edmund and Thomas de Cailleweye, presumably his son, were in a trespass dispute with Margaret de Courtney in 1391 - possibly a preliminary to the loss of the Wiltshire manor.
> Edmund went to Devon, Thomas to Dorset, and Joanne Bingham?
> The shadow of Mokesbeare hovers over the whole story at this time, but there seems no definite reference to a connection, only some matching names.
>
> Regards
> Warwick

From: Bruce Callaway
Sent: Sep 1, 2003
Subject: Dorset/Somerset/Devon properties

From: Sherrill Williams
Sent: Sep 1, 2003
Subject: Edmund

I checked the reference to Edmund that Warwick questioned.  The reference I gave came from my "index" to our records.  I found the item in Pat's 1999 notes (bottom of p. 7 in my copy). Pat, will you check this and see if I am interpreting it correctly?
>
Exeter Episcopal Register of Bishop Stafford, 1395-1419. "Edmund Kayleway presented to Cheldon for ordination John Kaylewaye - ordained 21 Sept 1398."
>
Does that mean that Edmund presented John Kaylewaye for ordination?  Also, was it Edmund who presented "John Kelwa at Tavistock, 20 Aug 1404" and "William Kelwe at Lananta, 9 Oct 1411" ??  Where is Lananta?

From: Sherrill Williams
Sent: Sep 1, 2003
Subject: From Sherborne to Lillington - Part 1

Good morning (too early here - 5 AM).  For several weeks now I have been shuffling these papers, trying to understand the implications of the various (and varying) C/K pedigrees; also, to understand the information supplied
in the lay subsidies, and other "official" documents we have collected.  I concluded a number of things.
>     In the pedigrees presented at the various visitations most agreed that there was an ancestor named Thomas C/K who married a daughter of Leweston - but they were somewhat uncertain how he fit in the family. There was
> disagreement on the names of his children (some even calling those same persons his brothers). Among those children/brothers are two distinctive names: Maurice (Morris) and Peter.  Peter we can probably account for:
> Peter at Clifton Maybank, Yetminster Hd, Dorset in 1524 & 1525 [lay subsidy] and at Mappowder in 1539 [muster roll].  After that, nil.  Maurice (Morris) does not appear in the records of this era.  A Maurice is listed on the
> protestation returns for Monksilver parish, Somerset, 1640/41, and he was buried in Monksilver about 1673.....too late to be Thomas's child/brother.
> The submitters to the visiting heralds were as confused as are we. There are some things about the lay subsidies that should be pointed out.  (1) a man could only be taxed in one category - that is, on Land, or Goods, or Wages.  He would be taxed on the one category of the highest value (which would give the higher return to the Crown).  Thus, because a man was taxed for "goods" it did not mean that he held no "land,"  just that his "goods" were of higher value than his "land." (2)  He could only be taxed in one place, usually the place of his principal residence.  If he were assessed in other places, he could present a certificate, obtained from the place he was to pay taxes, to the commissioners of the other places where he had taxable property to be exempted.  (3)  Goods were not explicitly defined, but some examples were given:  coin, plate, stock of merchandise, harvested (but not standing) corn, household stuff "and all other goods and chattells moveable."
>     One other thing we must consider is the "law of primogeniture" (the law of descent of land).  This is particularly relevant to the will of William K. of Sherborne, 1469.  Landed estates passed to the oldest son who was  considered the heir.  There was no need to even mention the "landed estates" in a will; it was a "given" that the land would descend to the oldest son & heir.  Frequently the land was not mentioned, unless a part was to be
> designated to another person.
The 1469 will of William K. of Sherborne makes no reference to the land he held around Sherborne, or in other places we know about.  Apparently he held extensive land - at Whiteparish, around Sherborne Hd., and the land
at Bristol and Yevell.  How he acquired the Bristol and Yevell land would be of interest (by inheritance or other means?).  We don't know how many children he had, but I suspect just one surviving son, William II.  He bequeathed to son William various missals and "treasures" of gold and silver, but no mention of land.  Were there other sons, he might have shared with them some of the "treasures," thus passing on some of the wealth.  There is no doubt that son William was his heir to the land.
>     Next William made bequests to his grandsons.  To grandson John he gave the land in Bristol and Yevell and a few "treasures."  To grandson William he gave "all my iron, and all the woad in my cellar at Shirborne."  It is not stated, but obviously grandson William is the oldest son and heir of his father, son William.  So, eventually all the landed estates would descend to grandson William, including "the cellar in Shirborne."  Thus we have the
> descent of the landed estate as follows:
> I    William K. of Sherborne (d. 1469)
> II   William K., the son
> III  William K, the grandson
>
>     In Part 2, we will attempt to trace the family (via the land) "down" from William of Sherborne (1469) and "up" from the information in Martin K's will (1575) and hope to discover where "the twain shall meet."
>     Stay tuned for Part 2.
> Sherrill

From: Pat Schnurr
Sent: Sep 2, 2003
Subject: Edmund

Yes -- Edmund presented John.  Could be that he also presented John Kelwe 1404 at Tavistock - does not say,  As regards Capel Caylleway -- from Wiltshire Institutions by Thomas Phillips - 1304 Patroness Johananes de Cayllewey - Priest
Edmundus de Tyderington = earliest date mentioned.  then 1337 - Patron Edmundus
Priest Ricardi Creym - next is 1380 - Capel Brokenborow, Capel Kayleway and Stokkebbes Hereford -  Patron Edmundus Caylleway - Johannes Wyttyngeslawe of Stokkebbee Rector (interchanged with Priest - must have been low church - HA).
Has to be two Edmunds here  because of time span.  Pat

From: Warwick Kellaway
Sent: Sep 2, 2003
Subject: Edmund

From: Warwick Kellaway
Sent: Sep 2, 2003
Subject:  Dorset/Somerset/Devon Properties

From: Sherrill Williams
Sent: Sep 3, 2003
Subject: Joan Barrett - Part 2

Who married Joan Barrett?   Who IS Joan Barrett? The next parts coming are "radical"!  It will require erasing our brains of all pre-conceived notions, and having the aspirin bottle handy might also be a good idea.
         According to information available to us from various sources, Joan Barrett was married to "a" William C/K, and she was the mother of "Thomas C/K of Stalbridge," and perhaps other children.  "Thomas of Stalbridge is then shown to be the father of "William C/K of Stalbridge" who is the center piece of Martin's will (1575), being father of Thomas "the elder," William, Robert and Thomas "the younger."
         What do we know about "Thomas of Stalbridge"?  Nothing!  We have not one record of a Thomas who fits him.  If anyone has such a record (aside from pedigrees), now is the time to throw it into the mix.  That 40 year gap in the listing of the "freeholders of Whiteparish" is critical for us. Having those records would show us what years Thomas was the "freeholder." The list breaks at 1519 with William Keilway as freeholder, and picks up again in 1560 with John Keilway as freeholder.  There are possibly 3 generations of "freeholders" in that gap.  Thomas should be one of them. It is not possible to explain why Thomas is missing from the records. There are many other of the C/Ks recorded during that time.
         Actually, the only record we have of a Thomas who fits our needs is the Thomas K., age 30, one of the heirs of William Cammel (Thomas K, "son of his sister").  This Thomas was born c1474/76, depending on whether the age is calculated from William Cammel's death (1504) or the date of the Inq. P.M. (1506).  Right at this point it becomes very "sticky" and we must find a way to work through it.  But first, we need to assign dates and wives to our first 3 generations at Sherborne.
         Using 25 to 30 years per generation, and also using Warwick's estimated birth year of 1400, which is reasonable, for William (d. 1469) we have the following:
 I    William of Sherborne (1400-1469)
 II   William (the son) - b. c1425-1430
 III   William (the grandson) - b. c1450-1455
         Who were the wives?  I am at this point unable to suggest the wife of William I (d. 1469) - the one who would be the mother of William, the son.  However, I do believe he was also married to Joan, the widow of Roger Ledred.  I can find very little on Roger (de) Ledred, but what I do find suggests that Roger was born about 1400 and died before 1448.  He is said to be a son of Henry Ledred & Amy Downe.  The maiden name of his wife, Joan, is not known.  The daughter, Alice Ledred, who married William Strode, son
of Richard and Margaret Gerrard Strode, was born about 1420 and died 14 Sept 1499.  They are all said to have lived at Somerton, Somerset.  These dates make it most likely that Joan, widow Ledred, married our William I of Sherborne, sometime after the death of Roger Ledred about 1448.  It fits nowhere else.
         I have no candidate for the wife of "son" William (II).  Perhaps a closer scrutiny of the records would reveal a possible name.  For the present it is not important.
         "Grandson" William (III) is the one who married Joan "so-called" Barrett.  He is the one with the birth year that fits, if Thomas (b. c1474-76) is his son.  Thomas was co-heir of William Cammel, along with
his mother's sister, Katherine Alwyn, age 50 (thus b. c 1454/6 - a perfect generational fit).
         That concept raises the question - Who IS Joan Barrett?  It is also the reason I have been "hollering," why is there no quartering of the C/K COA with Barrett, while the Cammel quartering is quite evident?  We have landed right in the middle of the "sticky" point.  Study the foregoing, critique it and tweak it if you can.  Part 3 will deal with the "sticky."
     Sherrill

From: Bruce Callaway
Sent: Sep 3, 2003
Subject: Joan/Jane Barrett (who is she?)

Joan v Jane Barrett

From: Warwick Kellaway
Sent: Sep 3, 2003
Subject: Joan Barrett - Part 2

Sherrill, Bruce,

 Hey you two, my head is spinning now. Admittedly you have access to some important new documents, while I can only go back to the Pedigrees, but they cannot surely all be wrong.

 Certainly that Thomas, who may/may not have married Miss Leweston, is the problem, but the fact that he has not yet been found anywhere does not mean he did not exist - he may have been a very quiet fellow - reclusive even. We do have the 1476 Thomas, but do not know whose little boy he was. To inherit from a William Cammel, who died in 1504/6, suggests a very close connection, rather than the 1400 Cammel recorded elsewhere.  Did William II or III, or one of those two Thomases marry a lady with Cammel background?

 I would have to extend the dates for William II and William III, because William II was recorded as the son of the second wife - suggest 1440, rather than 1425-30.  More so, because, as Sir William, he lived on to 1507. Similarly William III, the brother of Sir John, was probably born between 1465-9.

 The Wiltshire Pedigrees (for Kellway of WhiteParish), are pretty clear with a line of succession from William and Joanna, daughter and heir of Henry Barrett of Whitparish, (including reference to his marriage to his second wife Miss Stanter - hence the Rockborne knights), through Thomas (of Stalbridge), Robert and John, to Henry's daughters Philip and Elizabeth. The only problem datewise seems to be the one generation gap at the Thomas who married Miss Leweston.  (All of this relates to what is presumed to be
the principal family, then living in Wiltshire)

 The Somerset Pedigrees (for Kelway of Stowford in Barwick), gives the same succession, (except that William's second wife and family are omitted), through Thomas and William of Stalbridge, finishing  with Thomas the younger and Elizabeth Joanes family, Richard, Andrew, Robert, Raffe, and Ursula.
(The family then living at Stowford). I had also been worried about the dates here, but the problem still looks to me to be around that Thomas who married Miss Leweston, and the Thomas who was born c 1476 - his son?

 The Devonshire and Cornwall Pedigrees both refer to William and Joanna Barrett as the parents of the Agnes who married Thomas Pomeroy, before 1478. For this to be the case, William and Joanna must have married somewhere around 1430.  (These C/K references were from the expansive Pomeroy family tree).

 Neither the Dorset, nor Hampshire, Pedigrees covered the C/K family to any extent. None of the Counties gave any clear succession for the Rockborne knights - only by implication - why?

 These Pedigrees were initially produced in the mid 1500s, although the latest information was around 1625.  There was a time difference from 1450 odd - maybe the same heralds visited all the counties - not sure about
that - but would they be so wrong?  Much of their information anyway related to the 1500s, and surely was accurate.

 I cannot really see how William of Sherborne could have married Joan Ledred, unless there was some mix-up with the Stanter lady, whom he could have married about 1440.  Grandson William III could not have married before about 1500, again because elder brother Sir John presumably was not born much before 1465, to die in 1547.  William Cammel of 1504/6 may also have been a later Cammel, than the earlier Barrett inheritor?

 There might have been another Joan Barrett around in 1500, but do we have a confirmed reference to a lady with that name anywhere near that time? Hutchins also put her back around 1400, while I had the reference to Henry's father John in 1413.  (Although there was no suggestion of his age given, but reference to Payne and Cammel property, son Henry and Joan, tends to suggest he may have died about then.  If John was about 60, his granddaughter could have been born around 1405.)

 The COA without the Barretts could perhaps be explained by the Barrett family being too far back, whereas 1476 Thomas's liaison would have been much closer to the time of the arms?

 Could the Whitparish 40 year gap be explained by a dispute - with the Estcourts?
The top is spinning, like my head.  Aspirins please.
 Best wishes
 Warwick

From: Warwick Kellaway
Sent: Sep 4, 2003
Subject: William of Stalbridge grandfather of Thomas

Sherrill,

 While we must beg to differ on the merits of the Pedigrees - and I do sincerely hope that you can find the evidence to settle it once and for all - until then we really have nothing definite as an alternative.  I had managed some time ago to rationalise them against the "known" information, to my satisfaction anyway, with the exception of that missing generation.

 Now you may have something.  I had not spotted that 1476 Thomas had a grandfather William (of Stalbridge).  The William of Stalbridge I had was later, the brother of Robert, uncle of Martin.

 If so, as you say, we could have descent from William of Sherborne, through his son Thomas (of Lewston fame) born maybe about 1425-30, your William 1 of Stalbridge born maybe around 1450-55, to 1476 Thomas, I am very happy. Thomas remains the father of Robert and William 2 of Stalbridge, the missing generation is found, and we have perhaps covered the odd references to a William, who was not Sir William, in the late 1400s.  I like it.  (And the Pedigrees did get it wrong)

 You could even fit in a Camell there somewhere, and a Ledred (William 1 could have married about 1475?)

 Incidentally, with regard to the Camells, the original man, forebear of Joanna Barrett was Robert Camell.  I checked the Cornwall Pedigrees again (sorry), and one I suggest is irrefutable is that of Pomeroy of Tregony.  There are three pages of highly detailed references, with dates, for most of the Pomeroys, from about 1086. Agnes is clearly stated as the daughter of John, granddaughter of William (or Thomas?) Kelloway and Joanna Barrett, herself the daughter of Anna, daughter of Robert Camell of Tittleford.  By juxtaposition Joanna would have been born about 1400.

 The brew is warming up in the summer weather.  (Our summer is coming - I hope)
 Warwick

From: Sherrill Williams
Sent: Sep 4, 2003
Subject: William of Stalbridge grandfather of Thomas

Will all this "brewing" we are doing produce Ale?  I hope so. I'm gonna need some - maybe a lot. I don't think aspirin will do the job.

Bruce, your Barrett chart is very interesting and shines some new light on the situation.  But, I am still lacking a Cammel girl who married a C/K and produced Thomas C/K, b. c1473.

     Warwick, I don't give all these visitation pedigrees one bit of credence.  The more I study them, the more exasperating they become. Our C/Ks giving the information knew about 3 generations.  Beyond that, the
people were just names that belonged to the family, but the info giver had no idea how they related to the family.  Obviously the heralds were not going back to the office and correcting these things, using information they should already have - or did they not have it?  It should not be strange, then, that our Foundation of Medieval Genealogy has a running series on making corrections to The Complete Peerage.  Followed by the huge error in the Lyte pedigree, I've lost the faith.
     The Lyte pedigree, Wiltshire Visit., 1623, shows this:  "Thomas Lyte de Lytes Carrye Ar borne 17 April: 1568  collector of this pedigree superstes 1628 (to which is attached a footnote).  The chart shows Thomas Lyte as son of Henricus Lyte & first wife, Agnes dau. & coheir of Kellway of Cullompton, married 1546; buried at Charlton 1564.  Well now, his mother died and was buried 4 years before he was born!  The footnote says: Thomas Lyte here makes a curious error in affiliating himself to his father's first wife.
 The dates that he gives show that his mother was Frances Tiptoft, and this is confirmed by Anthony a Wood (Athenae Oxonienses (1691), i, 533). Frances Tiptoft did not die until 1589, when Thomas Lyte was about 21 years old. Surely he knew who is own mother was.  So, who made the error?  Thomas Lyte who collected the info for this very large chart, or the person drawing the chart?  Who knows?  But it is a very large error which would have caused people to hang their branch on the wrong tree were it not pointed out by the editor.
     The result is that I am using "official" records in my attempt to reconstruct the C/K family.  That approach also has a problem.  In order to get the correct information from the record, one must first understand the purposes of the law which generates the record.  A real learning experience. Also, many records are private records, held by the family, but often deposited in unexpected places.  Unfortunately many of these manor records just decayed, and some remain in private hands unknown to the world. The manor is where so much is recorded.  It is all a daunting task.  I would also not be surprised to learn that the PRO has numerous records that have never been translated, transcribed and published in the catalogues that are so useful.
     There are the same problems with the descendancy of the land.  We have to know by what "rights" it is held.  If it is held for "term of lives" then at some point it just evaporates from the family, returning to the original holder.  The "freeholder" system was different.  And in referring to the gap in the freeholder records of Whiteparish, I did not intend to imply that those records in the gap were actually "missing" - just that the historians only checked them for their purposes, sporadically checking the later ones. But from the copies we have, the source of the records is uncertain.  A closer examination of the footnotes or bibliography of the book might have revealed the source.  But now, the book is "over there" and I am "over here."  The sad result of hurried research.
     Back to the Cammel problem.  When I count the generations "down" from William of Sherborne (d. 1469) and "up" from what we know of those mentioned in Martin's will (1575), I come to the conclusion that the "William of Stalbridge" mentioned as Martin's grandfather in his will, is the son of Thomas C/K, the coheir of William Cammel.  When we consider the property (real estate) held by William Cammel at his death, it becomes interesting. His properties were described thus: "The manor and advowson of Westperley, as of his manor of Cranborne, and common of pasture in:
             Fiffylford                       Bell
             Sturmynster                     Newton Castell
             Okeford Fitzpaine           Child Okeford
             Stour Payne                     Est bagbere
             Westbagbere                   Colbere
     Therefore it is of interest that the only William C/K listed on the Dorset lay subsidy of 1525 was paying taxes on goods in the manor of Cranborne (subheading: Burgus de Cranborne).  In 1539, William Kaylewey (Able Billman) was on the muster roll of Bagbere tithing, in Sturminster Newton, Cranborne Hd.  He was required to provide a bow and 1/2 sheaf of arrows.  William Kelway was taxed for goods at Bagbere, Cranborne Hd in 1545.  So, this man's greatest assets were at Cranborne.
Also on the 1539 muster roll was another William Keylewey at Thornhull in Stalbridge.  He was also taxed for goods there in 1543, 1544 & 1545. I thought this one could be the brother of Robert and the 2 Thomases, who was mentioned in Martin's will.
     More to come shortly.  We still must work out the Cammel problem.
Sherrill

PS.  I forgot to say, Warwick, that I still think that the 1st William of Sherborne (d 1469) had as a second, or later wife, Joan, the widow Ledred.

From: Sherrill Williams
Sent: Sep 5, 2003
Subject: Edmund (more)

Cary contributed this:

Wiltshire Inquisitions Post Mortem:

ROGER CAYLEWEY, EDMUND CAYLEWEY, and NICHOLAS atte BERNE. Inquisition taken before Thomas de Seymour, the King's escheator in co. Wilts, at Malmesbury, 10th June, 21 Edward III [1347], by the oath of Roger le War, Richard Bayllemond, Robert Chynerdene, William Bent, Wibert de Cherleton, John de Hanekynton, Geoffrey le Frye, Thomas Blanchard, Henry atte Halle, John atte Hurne, Nicholas Roylly, and Thomas Bubbe, who say that It would be no damage to the King or any other to allow Roger Caylewey, Edmund Caylewey, and Nicholas atte Berne, chaplain, to retain one messuage and 2 virgates of land in la Lee next Malmesbury, which they have acquired for the lifetime of Margaret Caylewey from the Abbot of Malmesbury without the King's licence; the premises to revert on the death of Margaret to the said Abbot.  They are held of the Abbot by the service of 17s. a year for all services, and are worth 20s. a year.  [Chan. Inq. P.M., Ser. I, 21 Edw
III, 2nd Nos., No. 46.  New reference, Chan. Inq. a.q.d, File 284, No. 14] WHO IS MARGARET?
1374.  Edmund Cayllewey was on the jury for the inquisition p.m. of Thomas, son of Sir Robert de Bradeston, Chivaler - taken at Chippenham, 1 June 1374.
1375.  Edmund Cailway was on the jury for the inquisition p.m. of Geoffrey, son of Edmund Gascelyn - taken at Devyses on 6 April 1375.

From: Warwick Kellaway
Sent: Sep 5, 2003
Subject: Response to Warwick Re: Part 3 - and Part 4. Pomeroy

Sherrill

I think the problem lay in the vineyard.
The Margaret referred to with Edmund I in 1347, I could only assume was the sister or mother - probably sister.  Later Edmund II had property problems with Margaret de Courtney in 1391, and I wondered if it could have been the same lady, even 44 years later.  Might the Malmesbury property have been a dowry for a 20 year old, who married a Courtney?  Could explain why they left Wiltshire.

I think I see that there was not a reference to 1476 Thomas's father being a William.  Never mind, but it could still be a possibility?
The Cornish Pedigrees match the Devon version.  I also see the reference to the entries we are looking at having been recited in an Inq. taken on the death of Katherine Huddersfield, formerly the wife of Sir Saintclere Pomeroy in 7 Hen. VIII (1514).  Her marriage would have been c 1460, so events at that time should have been relatively fresh for the family.
I agree that there are some strange dates and liaisons suggested around Henry de la Pomeroy, his marriage to Anna Camell of Tittleford, and her subsequent claimed marriage to William Barrett of Whitparish.
I do think however that they would probably be correct in the later references.  Agnes being the daughter of John Kelloway, who was said to be the daughter of William K and Joanna Barrett.  John had only died about 1478, 36 years before 1514, and William in 1469, probably after Katherine's marriage.
This is of course the Pomeroy Pedigree, and I would therefore suspect any errors to be in the Barrett field.  We are now looking at the time around 1400, which is over 100 years before 1514.  Henry de la Pomeroy's father Edward is actually the same vintage as the William Barrett quoted, both presumably born c 1380, and it would seem to be impossible for his son to marry Anna Camell, widow of Henry Barrett as suggested.  Possibly Henry and William Barrett were brothers, but could Anna have been born about 1380, and marry Henry de la Pomeroy when she was about 50, he about 25?  It could happen to secure property, and there were evidently no children, but I do not think so. Information from other County Pedigrees, for our family, gives Joanna's father as Henry Barrett, her grandfather John.  A major discrepancy.
At this stage I cannot see an obvious answer.  My feeling is that the Camell/Barrett connection might have come in somehow sideways, through perhaps an uncle with no descendants, but a generation earlier than suggested from the Pomeroy Tree.  The Pomeroys then later got Henrys and Williams mixed up. (Camell research would be nice.)
The Pomeroys were not absolutely sure whether John K's father was William or Thomas, although, by deduction, he must have been born c 1400.  They may have been less certain about the names of Joanna's family, and could well have got it wrong.
Regards
Warwick

Response from Bruce Callaway, Tuesday, Sept 9, 2003:

Nice thought Warwick, but I do not think so. The de Courtney family are well documented (Hugh de Courtney being the Earl of Devon). They were linked to the Grenvilles and the Beaumonts whom, while featuring on the periphery of our K/C's because of property (conjoint, sold or pilfered) show no signs of being inter-married with our lot at this stage. I append an abbreviated tree for both families merely to sort out dear Margaret.
Bruce

From: Sherrill Williams
Sent: Sep 5, 2003
Subject: Response to Warwick Re: Part 3 - and Part 4. Pomeroy

It is good to hear from Bill, and that he did not fall over on his keyboard and hit the "delete" key, as editor Ben Callaway is fond of saying. I knew, if we talked about Bill, he would peek out from behind the curtain.
Do you think he stayed in the vineyard too long?  Here we are just brewing Ale.
    Warwick, Martin, in his will, said that his father, Robert, and Robert's brothers, William and the 2 Thomases were sons of "William of Stalbridge."
I don't know for sure how our Thomas (b 1476) may fit in.  He may be Martin's great-grandfather.  Got to work on the numbers a bit more.  I am also not sure about wife, d/o of Leweston.  I need to study my Leweston data for dates.  I do know that the John Leweston buried in St. Katherine's chapel had no heirs.  He married the widow Fitzjames, and gave the Leweston manor to her Fitzjames son by her former marriage.  I have a record of this which has dates, I believe.
Part 4.    The Pomeroy pedigree.
    For the benefit of those who don't have copies of the Pomeroy pedigree, I am going to run the direct line for the dates provided.  Much of this pedigree is referenced to events which are recorded records.  My copy is from  The Visitations of the County of Devon, and is probably similar to the Cornwall version.  I am beginning at the point where it is referenced (1) - footnote.  This footnote says:  "The descent thus noted is recited in an Inq. taken on the death of Katherine Huddesfield, who was widow of Sir Seintclere Pomeroy, 7 Hen. VIII, No. 14."  We have copies of Katherine Huddesfield's Inq. p.m. - and if it will EVER stop raining, I will take the copies to the deck and try to glean something from them.  We are currently under a FLOOD WATCH, tho' a flood will not bother us since we live on top of a small mountain, well above the flood plain.  It does mean it will be another cloudy, foggy day.  Staying awake will be my problem.
I    Sir Henry de la Pomeroy (1) - bapt. Tregony, Cornwall 23 April 1265, sixteen years old [baptized at age 16? - thus b. c1249?]; married 1 June 1281, Amicia, d/o Sir Geoffrey de Camville.  [Also states that he proved his age as 22 in 1287 (b.c1265).  When was this guy born??
II    Sir Henry de la Pomeroy (1) - age 14 in 1305 (b. c1291); d. 22 Oct 1367; md. (1) Johanna, d/o John, Lord Mules; (2) Elizabeth, d/o John de Powderham (she was living 1359).
III    Thomas de la Pomeroy (1) - youngest of 5 sons by Johanna Mules; b. b ; d. 1426; md. Unknown.
IV    Edward de la Pomeroy (1) - d. 3 May 1446; md. Margaret, d/o John Bevile (she died 10 Sept 1461)
    Edward died seized of Bery Pomeroy, Stokeley Pomeroy, 1/2 of manor of Harberton, 1/3 of manor of Brixton by virtue of entail.
V    Henry de la Pomeroy (1) - age 30 in 1445 (thus b. c1416); d. 17 July 1481; md. (1) Alice, d/o John Raleigh of Fardell, Devon (no dates); md. (2) before 20 Sept 1478, Anna (1), d/o Robert Cammel of Tittleford (sic), Dorset, widow of Henry Barrett of Whiteparish, Wilts.  Anna died before her 2nd husband, Henry de la Pomeroy (who died in 1481).  Henry had 3 sons by Alice Raleigh; no children by Anna Cammel Barrett.
A side lineage is inserted at this point - the daughter of Anna Cammel & Henry Barrett - A.  Johanna (1) - md. William Kelloway of Sherborne, Dorset; they had:
1.  John Kelloway (1) -   b. & d. and wife not stated. a.  Agnes Kelloway (1) - md. Thomas Pomeroy (1) - he d.
29 Dec 1493 [see ahead].  Her father, John Kelloway settled Cheriton Fitzpaine on them 20 Sept 1478.  WHAT EVENT TOOK PLACE ON SEPT 20, 1478???
[Back to Pomeroy lineage};
VI    Sons of Henry de la Pomeroy & Alice Raleigh: A.  Sir Seintclere Pomeroy, Kt.(1)  (1st son) - d. 31 May 1471; md. Katherine, d/o Sir Philip Courtenay, Kt. of Powderham; she was widow of Thomas Rogers; she md. (3) Sir William Huddesfield.  Katherine died 12 Jan. 1515 at Shillingford.  Seintclere Pomeroy had NO children. B.  Sir Richard Pomeroy (1) (2nd son) - heir to his brother, Seintclere.  Richard was age 30 and more at Seintclere's death (thus b. c1441);  d. 24 May 1496 (Will PCC Horne 1); md. Elizabeth, d/o Richard Densell of Were, and widow of Martin Fortesque of Filleigh.  Elizabeth died 20 Mary 1507/8. C.  Thomas Pomeroy (1) (3rd son) - d. 29 Dec 1493; md. Agnes, d/o John Kelloway. D.  John Pomeroy - living 1496 E.  Agnes Pomeroy - living 1496 F.  Elizabeth Pomeroy - md. Humphrey Courtenay
    Referring back to the C/K insert in this Pomeroy pedigree........What if something is stated WRONG?  What if Anna was d/o Henry Barrett and "widow" of Robert Cammel?  Then her daughter would be Johanna CAMMEL who married William Kelloway!  We would then have the "sister of William Cammel" whose son was Thomas C/K, thus another grandson of William I of Sherborne (d. 1469), and born after William I died.  DREAM ON - but it is an intriguing thought!  We just need to know more about the CAMMELS....whose COA we quarter with while ignoring the Barrett COA.  That was just a passing thought I had while typing this.  The point is to study the dates.  It now appears to me, from this pedigree, that Johanna [Barrett] married Son William, s/o  William (d. 1469), thus being mother of Grandson William and Grandson John.
    I have taken a peek at Katherine Huddesfield's Inq.p.m. and notice that "Cheriton Fitzpaine" is mentioned several times, but I don't know the context.   What do we know about that place?  Whose property was it?
    We must keep plugging away at it.  I think we are making progress. It is the "generations" that have had us confused.

From: Sherrill Williams
Sent: Sep 8, 2003
Subject: Sherborne to Lillington project

  In going through some files I came across some records that may be of interest, and helpful, regarding our Sherborne to Lillington project. These provide dates for our C/Ks (but nothing on Thomas), and some sidelights on some of the associated families.  They may help our perspective.  I am working here with "living black & white" so cannot highlight my comments in Color.  My comments will appear in [brackets].

 1364.  On July 10th 1364, a commission of oyer & terminer was directed to hear and judge of a complaint by John (BARRET), Bishop of Bath and Wells, the King's Treasurer, that "whereas the King took him, (who is daily occupied with the direction of affairs affecting the state and realm) and his men, lands, and rents, under his special protection [because a number of men, named] carried away his goodes, trod down & consumed with cattle his crops and grass, and assualted his men and servants.  (Medieval Sherborne, p. 187).

 1405/6.  Sherborne Hd. Court rolls for June 22, 1405/6 -  Walter Glover, or Walter the Glover [was he not Wm. K's "servant'?] is at law three handed with William Fauntleroy ((2), because for the last three years they have unjustly detained fomr him three buck skins, value 4s.

 (footnote 2)  Possibly John Fauntleroy or Faunleroy of Fontleroy Marsh, esq., who died 1439, father of Sir John Fauntleroy of March Court, who gave oak-trees from Stockgaylard, about the year 1437, towards the building of the present Sherborne Almshouse.  Sir John died in 1444, and he and his wife Joan, sister to Robert Rempstone of Godlingstone, were both buried in Sherborne Abbey (Fauntleroy Pedigree compiled by R. G. Bartolet).

 [Same date] -  the Seals of the five co-founders of the Almshouse are still on the Foundation Deed - dated 10 January 1437/8 -- the Bishop's, Sir Humphrey Stafford's, Margaret Gough's, Sir John Fauntleroy's & John Barrett's.

 [Same date] -  John Baret, gent (6)  dwelling in Sherburne in a street cauled Lodburne (7) gave v li. (to the building of the Almshouse).

 (footnote 6 -  The Barets first appear in Dorset c1280; a few years later they are part owners of a Knight's fee in Bere Hacket (Dorset Field Club, xxii, p. 131) )
 (footnote 7) -  Lodburne  - Half Moon Street, or, possibly South Street [Medieval Sherborne, pp. 224f.]

 1439.  Manor of Lillington, Dorset [we have talked of this before, so just a brief].  Henry Winterhey confirmed to Margery, relict of William Winterhey, his uncle, her dower of all the lands and tenements of the said William in Yetminster called Wynterheigh, which had been assigned to her by the feoffees of the said William; wits. were John Fauntleroy, John Baret, Thomas Dounton, William Mannyng, John Nywman of Lillington "and others."
     [That was followed by]:  Margery, late wife of William Wynterheygh, daughter and heiress of Walter Lillyngton, John Fauntleroy, John Newman of Lillyngton, jur., John Houchins of the same, sen. and William Mannyng, reciting that they have received by the grant of John Baret and John Horder, for the life of the said Margery and Agnes, her sister, the manor of Lillington with the advowson of the church there, etc. - now grant the same to John Baret and John Horder, their heirs, etc. (except three houses of the capital messuage of the  manor), etc.......(1429).  (S & DN&Q, V. XI, p. 253]

 c1437.  Our old friend, John Barret, co-founder of the Almshouse, JOHN KEYLEWAY, one of the trustees of the 1419 Almshouse, Richard Rochell, the faithful accountant, and John Spadard, another of the Almshouse Brethren, are mentioned by name as having been summoned to attend the inquiry (Bishop Nevill's).  [Medieval Sherborne, p. 264.]

 1437/8.  [Discussing the Foundation Deed (of the Almshouse) which laid out the rules for the inmates "For their Grace at meals....to pray to John Baptist and seynt John Evanglist, and "for the state and soules above wrytyn and specified."]: "The state and soules above wrytn" refers to the good estate of the Foundation and Benefactors then living, and to the soules of the Benefactors who have died.  Among the former were the King, the five principal Founders, and 'WILLIAM KAYLEWAY.......the whiche hath be most special laborer to gete the saide letters patentes of our Sovereighn lord the King, and al so of makyng of this present fundacion.'  (2) (footnote 2) - How WILLIAM KAYLEWEY laboured to get these documents is shown in Richard Rochell's 1437/8 interim account [riding to Humphrey Stafford's at Hoke, and to Margaret Gough;s, etx.] [Medieval Sherborne, p. 264.]

 1443/4.  As early as 1443/4 a "Fraternity of the House" existed, undoubtedly a religious Guild......And in the reading of their Account for 1446-7.......soon after the chapel had been consecrated, Richard Rochelle and JOHN KEYLEWAY, speak of themselves as "Masters of the Brothers and Sisters of the Guild of the Almshouse, Shirborne."  The existence of this Guild, and its inclusion of members, both men and women, living often at a considerable distance from Sherborne, has perhaps not hitherto....................... [Medieval Sherborne, p. 244.]

 1446/7.  At Westminster in the octave of St. John Baptist between JOHN KAYLEWAY, WILLIAM KAYLEWAY, and Andrew Edward querents; and John Davy and Joan his wife deforciants for six messuages, thirty acres of land, eight acres of meadow, and twenty acres of pasture in YEVELL, Oldesok, Kyngeston, Astyngton, and Modeford Terry.  John Davy and Joan acknowledged the right of JOHN KAYLEWAY and quit claimed for themselves and the heirs of Joan, and besides they warranted against Edmund abbot of Westminster and his successors; for this JOHN KAYLEWAY gave them one hundred marcs of silver.
[Feet of Fines for the County of Somerset, Hen. IV to Hen. VI, by Emanuel Green, F.S.A., p. 109]
[NOTE:  Here is mentioned the Yevell land which was given by William K. (1469) to his grandson, John K.  Does everyone understand the "FINE" procedure?  This same source, on p. 204, contains the instrument involving John & William K. with Joan, the widow Ledred, 1457/8 - which we have recently discussed.]

1497.  Dorset Rebels in 1497.  [This is a discussion of Perkin Warbeck's rebellion, and especially identifying which were Warbeck's supporters, and which supported the Royalists.  Purbeck's supporters received fines.] - WILLIAM KELWAY, of Newland, in Sherborne, was fined #10.  It is stated that "the principal local families such as the Horseys, Strangways, Binghams, Willoughbies, Trenchards, Martins of Atelhampton, De la Lyndes, Mortons, Tubervilles, and Rogers of Bryanston, were for the King.  [S & D N & Q, V. viii, p. 103.]

1440.   Richard Strod'e Settlement, 1440.  On the back of the 9th, 10th and 11th slips which form part of the rent-roll of Richard Strode, are written the rough drafts of three documents relating to property of his in Somerset, which, at least in this form, remained unexecuted, the reverse and blank sides of the parchment being used for keeping his accounts.  They are: - 1.  A grant from Richard Strode and JOHN KAYLEWAY to John Frampton of Dorchester, and John Frampton, junior, of the lands in Mellellsowey (Middlezoy) and Weston (Zoyland), Somerset, which they had by grant of John Tretheke and John Brent, to be witnessed by Humphrey Stafford, Knt., William Stafford, and Nicholas Latymer at Melcombe Bingham, Dorset, in June, 18
Hen. VI (1440). 2.  A Conveyance of the premises by the two Framptons to Richard Strode and Margaret, his wife, and the heirs of their bodies lawfully begotten and in default of these to the right heirs of Richard Strode for ever.  Same witnesses.  Same date. 3.  A letter of Attorney from the two Framptons to Richard Smyth, to put Strode and his wife in possession of the premises.  Dated at Middlesowey, 8th July, 18 Hen. VI.
         This is a simple form of conveyance by feoffment followed by livery of seisin to settle the premises on Strode and his wife and children.  She was Margaret, relict of Walter Chartmarle, and was the second wife of Richard Strode, of Parnham.  She died s.p. In regard to John Tretheke and John Brent, mentioned in the first document, Mr. Weaver has kindly sent me a note from Collinson, III, 435, that Joah, daughter of John Brent, of Cossington, Somerset, married first
John Horsey, esq., and secondly, Thomas Tretheke, of Tretheke, Cornwall. Dorset Editor [S & D N & Q, V X, p. 169/70].

1523/4.  Sherborne All Hallows Churchwardens Accounts - Richard Adams Account: - Itm.  Recevd of MASTER ROBERT KELWEY (4) for hys granfaders be quest vjs. viijd. (footnote 4) - Robert Kelway.  Is this Robert Kelway "of Sherborne" son of Thomas Kelway "of Sherborne" (aged 30, 22 Henry vij), and grandson of William Kelway "of Sherborne"?  The last named held lands in Sherborne 9, 10 Ed. IV (see Hutchins, iv. 194).
[NOTE:  Just remember that Martin, in his 1575 will, says that his father, Robert, was son of "William of Stalbridge."]       [S & D N & Q, Vol. ?, p.311.]

1525/6.  Sherborne All Hallows Church Wardens Accounts - Robert Dewdney, Churchwarden - Itm  recevyd off the be quest of Master Lewston (2)  iijs. iiijd. - Itm recevyd off the be quest of MASTER WYLLYAM KELWEY (3) for the gyft off the gentylwoman yt departid in Newlond  vjs. viijd. (footnote 2) - Master Lewston = Edward Lewston of Lewston, Long Burton, died 14 Henry viij (1523), and seems to have been the person indicated here. His son John was the last of the old family, the Manor, on his death in 1584, passing by his gift to his wife's son, Sir John Fitzjames of Redlinch. (footnote 3) - Wylliam Kelway "of Sherborne" probably, who married Joan, daughter and heir of Henry Barrett of Whiteparish (Hutchins, iv. 194). [S & D N & Q, Vol 23, pp 331f.]

1539-45.  [This is a rather long dissertation on the HORSEY family, which is of interest due to the numerous involvements, over time, of the C/Ks and their related and associated families, with the Horseys.] "On Jan. 4, 1539-40, Sir John Horsey (3) obtained by Indenture from the Court of Augmentations,  a lease of all the prebend of Sherborne for 21 years, expiring in 1560-1 (3).  If the word "all" meant to be understood literally, then Sir John Horsey was in possession iof both the Rector's and Vicar's share of the Sherborne prebend. (footnote 3)  There were three successive Sir John Horsey's who farmed the Sherborne prebend in turn -  1. the lay impropriator, who died in December 1546;  2.  his son, who died in January 1564-5;  3.  his grandson. who died July, 1589;  all of them were buried in the North Transept, or "Horsey Ilde," of the abbey church.  The first Sir John reserved the transept to his own use when he sold the abbey church to the parishioners, intending no doubt to place the family vault there.  In 1547-8, according to the Churchwardens' Account for that year, the parishioners bought the North Transept for #8; and later, the Horsey monument was removed to the adjoining so-called Wickham chapel.

     On October 29, 1545, Sir John was granted an extension of the lease for another 20 years, to take effect from the date of the expiry of the former one - i.e., giving him possession of it until 1580-1.
     By his will, dated December 20, 1546, he left his term of years in the tithes of North Wootton, Whitfield, Burton Lillington and Holnest, parcel of the prebend of Sherborne, to his cousin, JOHN LEWESTON, and his assigns, out of which he was to pay #9 per annum to his son andheir, the second Sir John Horsey.
     This second Sir John, on his father's death, that year, thus came in for the 34 years remainder of the 1545 lease less the portion of the prebend granted to John Leweston.  He was knighted in 1547, and died in 1564-5, leaving his lease of the prebend another 16 years to run.......etc. [Medieval Sherborne, pp. 319, 320.]

1552.  Dorset Recoveries (Edw. VI's Reign) Edward Fauntlerey &ct.  v.  ROBERT KAYLEWAY & Johan his wife -  Manor of Netherlyllyngton & lands there in Dylford, Blokelonds &ct. [From Introduction:  The intricate method of conveying a real estate, by means of a judgment obtained in a fictitious law suit, known as 'Common Recovery' is said tohave originated in a practice used by Religious Houses to acquire land in defiance of the Statute of Mortmain in Edward I's reigh, but it did not come into general use til the time of Edward IV.  ---- As to our reference above, it shows that Robert Kayleway  & wife Johan conveyed the property to Edward Fauntleroy .....rather a ridiculous transaction, but that is what they did!]

1592.  [There was in 1592 contention with the Dean & Chapter of Sherborne & the lessee, John Fitzjames (1). (footnote 1).  John Fitzjames was the son of Alfred Fitzjames and Jane Culpepper, his wife.  After her first husband's death, she married John Leweston, Esq., who died in 1584, the last of the Lewestons of Leweston Manor near Sherborne.  John Leweston disinherited his own daughter, and left his property in Leweston to his second wife's son - his stepson - John Fitzjames, Ralegh's contemporary.  The S. Mary's Churchwardens' Accounts for 1585-6, mentions that S. Catherines chapel in the parish church, had been assigned, for 10s. to John Fitzjames and to his heirs for ever, for seat and burial.  And, in the Book of Sherborne Church Orders, it is stated that on Jan 18, 1600-01, "the seate that was sometime Mr. Leweston's and also the seat nexte it downward, should not at anytime be solde to any partie but should be reserved and kept for Sir Walter Rawleigh and his Ladye." [Medieval Sherborne, p. 371.]

 So, there is a little flesh for our Sherborne family and associates.  This really points out the importance of the various Sherborne church and almshouse accounts.  Wouldn't we like to see what some of the other accounts have to say.  The accounts are (at least, mostly) at Dorset Record Office in Dorchester.  They should certainly be microfilmed or microfiched - or some "scholar" should transcribe and publish them.
Sherrill

From: Sherrill Williams
Sent: Sep 8, 2003
Subject: Off Agnes onto Dorothy

Bruce, you are right about Robert (W & L) and Cecily Bulstrode Unton.  You are also correct on Dorothy C/K Buller Lyte. The following may be of interest to you: From: Somerset & Dorset Notes & Queries, Vol. 31, p. 281:  SOMERSET ENROLLED DEEDS (97) Conveyance, 14 Apr. 1558 by Jn. Lyte of Lytes Cary (Charlton Mackrell), esq., to Jn. Master of Chilthorne Domer, husb., for #10 of an annual rent of 6s. on lands held by Master in Chilthorne Dormer, which rent was sometime the inheritance of WM. KELEWAY, Knt.  Enrolled at the full sessions at Bridgwater before Jn. Welshe, Thos. Phillips, Jn. Mawdley, esq., J. P.s and Jn. Dyer, 26 Sept 1558.
   Thought that might interest you.  I checked out many of the Agnes references and responded to a few who had email connections. Some had impossible dates for Agnes (of John of Cullompton) and I questioned the Ottery bplace for John (of Cullompton). I had a response from who said his data came from the LDS data website. So, they are all copying each other. I have not responded to the guy yet, but plan to and try to find out where he is located. I tried another one, but the email came back = address was not current.
   On one of my Google searches sometime back I came across a lady's website (she was from the middle part of Tennessee) who had Elias C/K as an ancestor. I intended to get in touch with her, but was busy - I think getting ready to go to England - and did not follow up.
   A short time ago I tried a Google search on Barrett and variations, Barett, Baret, Barret with practically no results - except what we know. Did that family "die out"? Also tried Cammel and var. sp. with also no results. The Cammel COA I located was for a person from Queen Camel, Somerset. I have a few resources here at home to check on for that.  And we do have an early will of a Thomas C/K of Queen Camel.
   Sometime today I am going to post some records I have dug out relative to our "Sherborne to Lillington" project. They may give enlightenment in sorting through the generations.
   Sherrill
Bruce Callaway wrote:
The 700 odd references to the two Agneses is proving a bit of a problem. I believe that Warwick has got it right, but because both were so well recorded, everyone in (mainly America) is claiming one or the other as an ancestor! It will probably devolve down to the DRAKES and the POMEROYS. The Drakes favour their Agnes having as her Daddy John K/C born RILL, Devon, although some claim that John was born at Otterton, Devon. The Pomeroys on the other hand are fairly certain that their Agnes and father John hailed from Cheriton Fitzpaine, and go further in saying that John's parents were William K/C who married Johanna Barrett.
Along the way however, I have fairly compelling evidence that Sir John of Rockbourne's daughter Dorothy married twice. 1. to John Buller who died 15th Jan. 1529 after only two years of marriage to Dorothy. Dorothy subsequently married William LYTE of Lillesdon Somerset, and they had a daughter Gertrude Lyte.
Another bit for to-days 'trivia' of which I am fairly certain concerns our Robert W&L. Warwick has him as marrying Cecily UPTON. I now believe that she was originally a Cicely BULSTRODE born circa 1512 at Hedgerley who married Alexander UNTON and had recorded children. Unton died and then she married our Robert W&L (See Chrisman pedigree).
For those unfamiliar with the GOOGLE website which I sent, it is active. In other words 'click' on anything and it will respond. (Just in case anyone wants to check on my precis of the 700 odd references!)
Bruce

From: Sherrill Williams
Sent: Sep 12, 2003
Subject: William of Stalbridge plus The Courtenays

Morning,
I think we are tangled up with our generations again.  I have just re-read Martin's will for about the 50th time, and he clearly indicates that his father, Robert, is son of "William of Stalbridge."  Martin clearly says:
"I doe give and bequeath unto Willyam Kaylewaye, sonne of Willyam Kailewaye late of Stalbridge deceased fortie poundes........."
"I doe give and bequeath unto Thomas Kaylewaye Thelder of Stalbridge tenne poundes......"
"I doe give and bequeath unto Robert Kailewaye BROTHER unto the foresaide Willyam Kaylewaye and Thomas Kaylewaye Twentie nobles......."
"I doe give and bequeath unto Thomas Kailewaye the younger sonne unto Willyam Kaileway deceased twentie nobles......."
The difference between the bequests above is the period of time in which the bequests were to be paid.  Martin directed that payments be made to William, Thomas Thelder and Thomas the younger within specified periods of time "after my death."  No instructions were given for paying ROBERT'S monetary bequest. That was all legal nicety and assured that the heirs of ROBERT [Martin's father] would be included in the payouts, and would have no reason to challenge the will.  Robert was, of course, dead (c1558).  Martin's brother, John of Bapton, was also dead.  Perhaps John's son, Henry, already had a reputation of being irresponsible. I certainly feel that Martin knew who his grandfather was [William C/K "of Stalbridge"], he having lived at Lillington with his father, Robert. John remained at Bapton, associated with other family members, but quite likely was unaware or unsure of his ancestry when he had his session with the heralds.  In other words, he got it mixed up.
I am not certain who married Joan Barrett because we cannot assign dates to her.  It is said that she was daughter of Henry Barrett; so if Henry was son of the John Barrett (one of the Founders of the Almshouse) that makes John Barrett possibly contemporary with William C/K (d. 1469).  But, due to our lack of information on the Barrett lineage, I am unable to assess this situation. as to dates.  But, it seems to be clear that one of our Williams  married the "sister of William Cammel."
Let us once again consider the possible lineage (and see if the numbers will work):
I    William K. (c1400 - 1469); md. (1) [uncertain]; (2) possibly Joan, wid. of Roger Ledred A.  William (the son & heir) - b. c1425-30; md. (?)  [could his wife be Joan Barrett?]
1.  William (the grandson & heir) - b. c1450-55;  md. "sister of William Cammel."
a.  Thomas C/K - b. c1476
(1)  William "of Stalbridge" - b. c1500+
(a)  William
(b)  Thomas "the elder"
(c)  Robert - md. Joan Marshall
 i.  John of Bapton
ii. Martin  (d. 1575) at Lillington
(d)  Thomas "the younger"
2,  John (the other grandson); received land at Yevell & Bristol from grandfather William (d. 1469).
Now, we don't know for certain the order of the births of Martin's father and uncles.  The above list is in the order he gave when making the monetary bequests.  When dealing with the land, he named them in this order:
1. Thomas "the younger"; 2. William;  3.  Robert;  4.  Thomas "the elder."
I suspect that ROBERT is the 2nd son of "William of Stalbridge" and was born about early 1520's. Robert's eldest son, John, was visited by the 'heralds' in 1565 (and John died shortly thereafter).  This visitation of Wilts shows the C/K arms quartered with "Argent, a leopard's face between five crows Sable (Barrett) [but elsewhere this is called the COA of ELLIS],and with Camell.
In checking my records, regarding the first appearances of "Robert of Lillington,"  I find that in 1544/45 "Robert of Lillington" was taxed for land.   In 1546, there is a deed: William Weston of Stalbridge to Robert Kaylway of Lillington, esq. & Thomas Gerrard of Wareham & William Kaylway of Stalbrygge, gent. - feoffment of land in Knighton in Bere Hackett, Dorset [Coker Court Muniments],  In 1550/51, Edward Fauntleroy &c. vs. Robert Kayleway & Johan his wife - manor of Netherlyllington & lands in Dylford, Blokelonds, &c. [Dorset Recoveries].  In 1558, the Inq. p.m. for Robert Kelway, Dorset, was held.
It seems to me that ROBERT (w. Joan Marshall) and their two sons, JOHN & MARTIN, died at relatively young ages.  Robert's will was probated under the Archdeaconry of Sarum, and is indexed as such.  I searched for it, first at the PRO (but the attendants there knew less than I about their holdings...I did not find an index for the Arch. of Sarum wills).  I tried again at Wiltshire R. O., Trowbridge.  They had an index, and the wills, but they begin somewhat beyond 1558.  Robert's will is either "not surviving" or is "hiding someplace."  We must not give up on this.
The fact that Thomas (b. c1476) fails to appear in any records we have collected may also suggest that he did not live to great age, either. He may also have died rather young, perhaps a "genetic thing."  That is why I lamented the lack of continuation of the "freeholders of Whiteparish." If we had the full range of those records, we could see when Thomas became freeholder, and then when Robert took over.  The record shown in the "History" skipped all the way to John (s/o Robert).  Just another of our continuing "short circuits."
Please study, again, the above lineage.  It is based on "official records" in our files, and not on those "wretched" pedigrees. I seem to have used up my "paper."  The Courtenays will get a clean sheet.
Sherrill

Hi Sherrill et al
We are having a lot of fun with our generations.  The problem here I think is a large degree of ambiguity caused by matching names. The way I read Martin's will is that the "Robert Kailewaye BROTHER unto the foresaid Willyam Kaylewaye and Thomas Kaylewaye --" refers to the three brothers, of the four (sons of William - his cousins).  The next reference, to "Thomas Kailewaye the younger sonne unto Willyam Kaileway deceased -", refers to the fourth son - all sons of Willyam K deceased. "Willyam K deceased" being our William of Stalbridge, the brother of Robert, who evidently died in 1558, and the uncle of Martin. The Robert in the will could have been the second son of William of Stalbridge born about 1520-30, but I understood of his second family.  (The age order I had thought was Thomas the elder, Richard and William by his first wife, Thomas the younger, and Robert, by the second).  But we must anyway separate the two Roberts.  The Lillington references of 1544-51 would presumably have been the older man.
Brian Kelway Willoughby took this meaning in an early interpretation, although his order varies.  It also matches the pedigrees. For John and Martin to be the grandsons of a William of Stalbridge born c 1500, they would have been born c 1550-60, which would make them a little too young.  (John died in 1568, while Martin's will was 1575).
With regard to the early Williams, the only reasonably positive fix we have is William of Sherborne c 1400-1469.  I had guessed, from those awful pedigrees, and his will, the first "Sir" William could have been c 1440-1507, and his son "Sir" John c 1465-1547 (presumably born before the 1469 will). To move them each back 15 years, would have them dying at 82 and 97, which does not seem likely.  I even worry about 82 for Sir John, if he was born about 1465. Hence I am happier with another Thomas slotted in as the eldest son of William of Sherborne, born c 1425.
The heralds of the time, and one occasion was 1575, were very concerned about having the correct pedigree/inheritance, and produced a list of those they considered without creditation, and rejected. I could not imagine them getting things very wrong, particularly when some of the Rockborne family were still alive.  They were reasonably clear about the later line of C/K descent, even if woolly about the very beginning. That is why I wonder why they barely mentioned the Rockborne family - surely they were of some note in London and Westminster late in the 1500s at least - even if not so much next century.  The only conclusion I have is that they could not have been in direct line.
I loved the Courtenay dissertation.  Sadly of course not around the 1400s, but there is John of Cullompton. Your C/Katherine appears to be the "dowager" Countess of Devon (the point I was making about Lady Margaret), and John was clearly highly regarded (presuming of course that he was of Cullompton, and not the future Sir John).  You have mentioned previously the possibility that John of C had been married before to an Elizabeth, and seem to have sewn it together with your "orphan child" Joan Tregarthen.  Apart from being very fertile, that could explain how she outlived John by some 53 years. I do not recall where the reference to the monastic orders came from, but understood he had left gold and silver chalices to monastic orders, and was remembered by a window in St Catherine's Chapel, Sherborne Abbey. Looking at this again, I guess the chalices could have gone to the orders outside his will, and maybe it is he who is commemorated by the fragment of stained glass arms there today?  Your bequests however do look on a lower scale.  Again did someone get carried away, and give John credit for another C/K - Sir John in 1547 - maybe even Sir William in 1507?  Where were these fellows buried - some at Rockborne later, but in the early 1500s?
No further comment about that Joanne Barrett, but there were of course several John Barretts.
Best wishes
Warwick

From: Sherrill Williams
Sent: Sep 12, 2003
Subject: Courtenays

Oh Boy!  Warwick opened the door; Bruce passed through it - and I am going to trot right along behind, though somewhat reluctantly.  I agree. The Courtenays and their relationships may be for the "too hard basket."
The Courtenays are a great ball of wax, within which are trapped all kinds of delectable relationships.  The pedigree is extensive (my copy from Visit. of Devon, tho' apparently there is one from Cornwall that has some
corrections).  The Pomeroys are involved; even those same Breretons I keep chasing around; most everyone is there except for C/Ks (directly).  But, John C/K of Cullompton has a foot in the wax.  I hope I have worked out his connection.  Let's see.
Something happened in 1512.  Katherine [Courtenay], Countess of Devon, made John Kayleway "receiver & surveyor" of the lands of Edward Courtenay, late earl of Devon, in the counties of Cornwall, Devon, Somerset, Dorset & Berks.  However, I cannot find on the pedigree an Edward of appropriate era with a wife named Katherine.  It is quite likely then that Katherine is Catherine Plantagenet (d/o King Edw. IV) who was married to the son of Earl, Edward Courtenay (d. 1509), namely William Courtenay, K.B. (knighted at coronation of Hen. VII) and who was imprisoned by Hen. VII and released by Hen. VIII upon his acceession, but not restored in honors, named in his father's will [Earl, Edward C.], died at Grennwich 9 June 1511, and was buried with the honors of an Earl by command of the King, Hen.VIII.  Sir William and Catherine Plantaganet had only two daughters, both named "Margaret."  The first Margaret died young, "choked on a fish bone at Colacombe."  The second Margaret [who was named in her grandfather's will - Earl Edward C.] married Henry Herbert, eldest son of Charles, Earl of Worcester.  She was living 2 July 1520 at Richmond in attendance on the infant Princess Mary.
Edward Courtenay, earl of Devon, married Elizabeth, d/o of Sir Philip Courtenay of Molland.  She died before her husband and is buried in the chapel at Tiverton.
Catherine Plantagenet died 15 Nov. and was buried 3 December 1827 "in her chapel at Tiverton Castle."  To Catherine's care fell the estates of her father-in-law, Earl, Edward C., after the death of her husband, Sir William Courtenay in 1511.  Thus, in 1512 she appointed John C/K to look after the property in Cornwall.
At first I had thought that John C/K of Cullompton's first wife, Elizabeth, may have been a Courtenay.  Elizabeth is referred to in the Patent Rolls, 1548, in reciting the history of some land being granted to John Whytehorne & John Bayly of Chard, Somerset:  "And whereas Thomas, formerly abbot, and the convent of Bukland, Devon, by indenture dated 30 Aug., 9 Hen. VII, granted to Henry Slade of Columpton, Devon, the reversion of three mills in Columpton with the multure of the tenants there, and the space of 8 feet on either side of the mill race then in the tenure of John Kelwey and Elizabeth his wife (for the term of the life of said Elizabeth) for 80 years from the conclusion of the tenure of the said Elizabeth, at 66s.8d. rent payable quarterly;  which Elizabeth died at Colompton 24 June 3 Hen. VIII (1512), etc........"
It was the 1512 date that sent up the flag.  However, 1512 may have another significance.  It is quite likely that later on in the year 1512 (o.s.), John C/K of Cullompton married the "orphan child" (aged about 13), Joan Tregarthan.  Joan's grandmother was a sister to the  Edward Courtenay, Earl of Devon we have been discussing.  And by this way, John C/K of Cullompton got his foot in the Courtenay door.
How does John C/K of Cullompton fit into the overall C/K picture? Everything I have seen about him points him in the direction of the Rockborne clan.  Time will tell!
A short while back, someone commented that John of Cullompton made a bequest to Sherborne Abbey.  Not So!  I have before me a copy of John of Cullompton's will, transcribed by me from a copy of the of the PCC copy at the PRO.  His bequests were to the various "lights" and stores of Cullompton church, and to "the Store of St. George's chapel at Peryholde."  I cannot locate "Peryholde."  That is all he bequeathed to the churches.  He named Sir Giles Strangeways as one of the feoffees of his property and that of wife, Joan Tregarthan (this transaction was made by deed prior to the writing of the will, also).
So, while the Courtenays seem to have had inter-relationships with about every other family in the Kingdom, the only C/K connection I have uncovered is this indirect one, through Joan Tregarthan, the wife of John of Cullompton.
Perhaps we will ferret out some relationships with the Courtenays in the very earliest generations of the families in England.  They do share some apparent family relationships then.  But, I consider this "too hard" for now.
Sherrill

From: Bruce Callaway
Sent: Sep 13, 2003
Subject: Rockbourne family, Dorset families

From: Pat Schnurr
Sent: Sep 24, 2003
Subject: Visitation of Gloucester

When I get into my "Hodge Podge" boxes I usually see something else I was looking for.  Found the copy of the Visitation of Gloucester - 1623 copied at the SOG on Calo alias Calew.  Do you' ll have this? 


NO dates
Wm. Calwe Lord Ferrers (?) of Groby and Chartley m. Phillipa da. of Roger Lord Clifford, their son Humphrey Calo alias Calew nat. sonn -- d. and heire of Addams of Churchham Rodley Mynstroud and little deane.

Roger Calo alias Calaew sonn of Humphrey  - d and heire of .....
Sambell of Rodley little deane and WestburyFootnote -- Richard Calo... Richard  Callowe of Churcham . Will dtd 2 Nov. 1558, prob. at Glou 27 May 1559.  Names his dau. Alis, Eleanor and Margaret , son Arthur, son Arthur and John Byrde to be overseers.

This goes on for several more generations but name disapapears.  I do not see this listing in our  Pre-1600 index so wonder if we discarded it.  However, names are similar.

Also, still wondering about the COA impaled with Chudleigh in St. Edmunds's Church in Exeter.  Kept looking at that name

In 1999 in my notes  - Reg. of Accts. of Edward Lacy, Bishop of Exeter Vol. 4

    Willilmus Keleway is listed on Page 18 as an accolite in parish of Chuddleigh.  28 Feb. 1427.  He is listed as sub-deacon in 1429 in Badminster.

Richard Kelewa, Deacon, candidate for the priesthood listed 8 Mar. 1446 at Chuddleigh. So Keleways were at Chuddleigh.  What could be the connection at St. Edmund's.

From: Warwick Kellaway
Sent: Sep 29, 2003
Subject: Visual for Warwick's Chronicles

I like the early tree.  Perhaps you could include Roger, although what relationship he was I have no real idea - father of Philip I perhaps.  Bishop Richard's father was Thomas, so the family connection must have been earlier. As outlined in the original Chronicles, which still seem amazingly intact(?), I would still maintain the following very approximate birthdates, which might help:

For Gloucestershire - Brimpsfield, and Wiltshire - probably later including Mokesbeare and Dunes Weston: Guillaume           c1030            (Not in the Chronicles)
(-)                       c1060            (Haven't met him yet)
Roger                 c1090            
Philip I/Nicholas  c1130            
Philip II/Elias I     c1160             Also Hugh
Elias II/Matilda    c1190             William appears in Devon
John I                 c1220            Alexander, and Thomas father of Richard of Durham, appear about here John II                 c1250-1308    Richard and William of Durham - also Philip of Stafford Barton Devon John III                c1280-1336    The Giffard inheritor
William              c1310-1376
Edmund             c1350              (Could a nephew of William)
John/Thomas      c1375
John/William       c1400  

In Mokesbeare Devon we have:
Nicholas             c1130            Possibly the brother of Philip I
Philip                  c1160             Presumably Philip II
William               c1190  

At Dunes Weston Dorset:
Ralph                c1200            Was he another son of Elias, or Philip II?

Surprisingly there were others recorded who would have been born in the early 1200s - Nicholas and Adam in Gloucestershire, John in Devon.  Presumably the sons of either Philip or Elias. As regards your problems with the two Thomases, the elder and younger, and their families, Bruce does it help if there was a large age gap between them - even 20 years?  (I do have a little trouble reading the dates)

From: Sherrill Williams
Sent: Oct 3, 2003
Subject: Ralph/Radulphus from McWhirter's notes

1260.  The name of Radulphus le Calewe is first recorded as holding the manor of Dunes Weston near Stalbridge, Dorset. This manor was later named CALLEWS WESTON. The rent payable annually to the Abbot of Sherborne in regards to this manor included a pair of gloves.  Very old heraldic records indicate that the arms of KALOWAY were three boars heads on a chevron. It is believed that Radulphus le Calewe's ancestors came to Dorset from the lowlands of the Benelux countries and settled near the source of the River Cale (it is interesting to speculate on the name of the river - ( Bruce Callaway says, think this was the researcher's comment ).

     We must go back and re-study the Coker Muniments records.  Recall that John (of the 1308 will) had 2 sons named John, by diferent wives.  Roger de Stapelbrigge gave land in Gummersheye & Stapelbrigge to John le Calewe, and called him his "nephew" in 1312.  In 1290, Roger de Stapelbrigge was guardian of John le Calawe, the younger. Can we sort out the 2 Johns; are they part of our problem?     We are losing part of our trail to those who became Westons, Staffords, Clarkes, etc., and don't know exactly who or when the names changed.  I suppose that is why, in the end we come down to the family at Sherborne and those at Rockborne who stuck with their C/K surname.     Later, Sherrill

From: Warwick Kellaway
Sent: Oct 3, 2003
Subject: Ralph/Radulphus from McWhirter's notes

There seem to be several issues appearing on the table.

I learnt some time ago to be wary of those articles.  Get the basic facts, but watch the comments.

John le Calewe of 1308 and his son John, were clearly descended from Elias and Bertha.  They lived at Dunes Weston, near Stalbridge Dorset, only 50 years or so after Radolphus/Ralph.  Surely therefore they were the same family, and nothing to do with the low countries.  (Shouldn't mention it, but the family was in the low countries later, but presumably for trade.)

Can't help but wonder whether the Boars heads mentioned on the arms (and still haven't found another reference to them), may have been an early derivation of the Leopards heads?

Anyway the Dunes Weston family, left behind when the principal John appears to have gone to the Wiltshire manor, presumably not long after 1308 (St Giles was founded in 1304), did assume the Weston name quite soon.

I had missed the two sons named John, but if one became a Weston, we do not have too much of a problem.  One went to Wiltshire, the other stayed home?  It might also explain the odd Edmund-William-Edmund patrons of St Giles a little later.

The guardianship is an interesting aspect - their father, also John, must have died about 1290.  But the will was 1308 - 18 years later?  Was there a family squabble?  The second wife/mother could have died, and the boy was sent to an aunt?  Was that an earlier John?  Were there two generations missed in the Bertha Giffard inheritance? 

Questions.
The Stowford/Staffords of course did something similar with the name 150 or so years later.  That Stafford Barton family needs a lot of sorting out.  The Clarkes were the result of one of those infuriating aliases.

From: Bruce Callaway
Sent: Oct 3, 2003
Subject: Sherborne Arms

Bruce
 
 I have just received a letter and pictures from Brian.  No no e-mail yet, but still a very valuable contributor.

 Eleanor Kelwaye had married John Fitzpaine in 1353, after having previously been married to Ralph de Horsey of Sherborne.  There may well have been property at Cheriton Fitzpaine, as a consequence.
 
 Ha! Ha! or Fi Fo Fy Fum!
 
 I see also that the "old Kaloway" arms were said to be three boars heads over a chevron, (over or around?), the same as those later borne by the Weston family of Dorset.  There was the chevron again, and the boars head (and the Dorset John le Calewe).
 
 Still stirring.  (A good meal may require good stirring). 
 Warwick

From: Sherrill Williams
Sent: Oct 3, 2003
Subject: College of Arms

That was a very good explanation, Bruce. We need to remember that the C/K arms in the window of St
Katherine's Chapel, Sherborne, indicate a "third son." Do we have an idea of just when that particular piece
of glass was originally placed in the windows at Sherborne?  In reference to the 1434 "armiger John,"
if his arms were also "nippers & pears," that might suggest our interest in glassmaking was quite early in
England. It is difficult to learn much about early glassmaking in England; most all info suggests that
glass was imported from the continent - or elsewhere. Could we have been involved in glassmaking back in
Normandy?
Sherrill

From: Warwick Kellaway
Sent: Oct 3, 2003
Subject: College of Arms

Sherrill

 My impression is that the small remnant of the arms in St Catherines Chapel was reinstalled after  the damage in the early 1500s, possibly because the importance of the family was recognised.  There may have been many more examples of the family arms in the Abbey beforehand.  Sherborne Abbey itself had been rebuilt between 1437 and about 1475, so the stained glass presumably  would presumably have been replaced towards the end of that period, say around 1470.

 There is a lot of medieval stained glass in Europe, despite the Wars, compared with the UK, probably
 because of our vandalistic Protestant and Puritan forebears, and parts of Europe remain noted for
 fine glassware.  Not so sure about stained glass there today.

 In England there was a resurgence of the craft in Victorian times, when the methods of stained glass
 production changed. (We have only one or two examples of the medieval type here).  I do not think  that the quality of medieval English stained glass was too far away from the European, although the  earliest craftsmen presumably came over from Europe.

 Without checking back, I also do not think there are many existing examples of stained glass, as we  know it in the churches, before around 1200.  In England presumably craftsmen were available locally through those early centuries.  It is extremely unlikely that our family would have brought the craft over from Normandy with them, especially if the first of them were the "barbarian" knights we have heard about.  It is just possible that later they may have "imported" some later, but there would need to be some evidence discovered of that.

 It does seem certain however that they were involved by 1400-1500, but I would imagine in a "managerial" position.  Any man in an armigerous situation at that time, would have been from a knightly family, or above.  Probably not too many younger sons either would have taken up a trade. It was a little later that the guilds produced people with sufficient social standing, or wealth, to be able to secure arms.  We know that the family had armigerous standing as of right.  I would assume therefore that they employed the craftsmen.

 When all this began we have yet to discover, but we do have Sherborne Abbey in the shadows. Coincidence maybe, but if they had any connection with stained glass beforehand, it must have developed with the rebuilding of the Abbey.  Just who in the family would have been in charge remains a puzzle.  John of Cullompton is said to be the man commemorated in St Catherines Chapel, although he was a "merchant of the staple".  Could he have employed the glaziers?  He would not be old enough, so what about his father?  I suggested he might have been the John who was the father of Agnes, and died in 1478.  (Easy perhaps to mix two Johns later?)

 This gets right away from the first Sir William, who I still think may have been the first to display the pears and snippers arms, possibly following his knighthood in 1501.  He of course had the right to choose his own arms.
 Best wishes
 Warwick

From: Warwick Kellaway
Sent: Oct 5, 2003
Subject: Coker Muniments

From: Sherrill Williams
Sent: Oct 5, 2003
Subject: Coker Muniments

From: Sherrill Williams
Sent: Oct 6, 2003
Subject: Westons from Coker Muniments

From: Warwick Kellaway, Bruce Callaway
Sent: Oct 7, 2003
Subject: Coker Muniments Part 2

From: Sherrill Williams
Sent: Oct 7, 2003
Subject: Advowson

Since I am now the "international reference" to  "advowson" via Kellchat, I had best clarify the word.
 ADVOWSON - the right of presenting a clergyman to a  benefice. A Collative Advowson is when the right to
 present is held by the bishop who also appoints. A  Presentative Advowson occurs when the right of
 presenting is held by some other person, usually lay.
 Normally the bishop could not refuse the choice. Lay Advowsons are known since the 8th century. In
 1933 parochial councils were allowed to purchase advowsons except where they were the gift of the crown
 or bishop. Since 1924 a lay advowson may not be sold after two vacancies have occurred.
 ADVOWSON APPENDANT - An advowson annexed to an estate or manor.
 ADVOWSON IN GROSS - An advowson belonging to a person.
 BENEFICE - A clerical appointment with specified duties and maintained by particular revenues  (temporalities). [From: "The Local Historian's Encyclopedia," John Richardson, Historical Publications Limited, 1974 (reprint 1977).]
    Sherrill

From: Bill Piper
Sent: Oct 8, 2003
Subject: William of Iwerne, Abbot of Sherborne, Canon of Salisbury

1356. Subdeacons. William Calewe of Iwerne, dioc. of Salisbury, ad tit, Abbot of Sherborne & canon of
Salisbury [Register of Wm. Edington, Bishop of Winchester, Pt. II, 1346-1366.]

Just a suggestion:
ad tit - to the title

So William of Iwerne became Abbot of Sherborne and Canon of Salisbury.
Bill