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Kell-Chat
An Ongoing International Conversation
between Callaway and Kellaway family researchers
discussing family origin, history and genealogy research in England
2003

(this file is VERY large and can be slow to load)


Primary Participants -
Warwick Kellaway  (Hamilton, New Zealand)
Bruce Callaway  (Sydney, New South Wales)
Bill Callaway  (British Columbia)
Sherrill Williams (Unicoi, Tennessee)
Pat Schnurr (Maitland, Florida)
Cary Moore (Birmingham, Alabama)
Bill Piper  (Kent, U.K.)


From: Warwick Kellaway
Sent: May 1, 2003
Subject: Hawisa

Hello All

I have just returned from the FHC tonight, and thought I would continue the stirring.
Please bear in mind that the LDS Church records the Regal families, which obviously are easier to find, if not any barbarians with whom they may have associated.  Anyway there is a little more on Hawisa.
 
Without going into too much detail at this stage, which may take a while, she was evidently the great great granddaughter of Henri 1 King of France (1008-1060), through one of his sons, Hughes, who married A. Vermandois, and a couple of Beaumonts, one of whom married an I. Vermandois .  Henri's father was Robert II "the pious", his mother Constance of Toulouse.  (At this stage I would presume Robert was born c 970.)
Henri married Anna Agnesa Grand Duchess of Kiev, Ukraine, in 1051.  Her father was Grand Duke Yaroslav I "the wise".  Her mother was Ingrid (Ingegerda) Olafsdotter, daughter of King Bjornsson, I think of Norway and Sweden.  His father King Ericsson was descended, on his mother's side, from Mieszko Poland, I think Duke of Bohemia.
The records get a bit confused here, but Mieszko may have been born about 900.
 
There are some inaccuracies.  In one case they have Hawisa being born c 1160, which could not be, any more than 1110, but elsewhere it is c 1129, which matches.  There were two other Hawisas mentioned, the Hawisa born to the first Earl of Leicester in 1110, and Hawisa the nun, born to "our" Hawisa's brother, the second Earl, about 1164 - presumably therefore her neice.  
 
Hawisa seems to have been related to most of the Royal Houses in Europe. 
The Ukrainian connection would have probably been through the Viking traders who travelled overland to Constantinople very early.  Bohemia of course was virtually on the way.  Much of this was occurring not long after our Norsemen friends were settling in northern France.
Later there were Norman rulers in Sicily, and elsewhere.  I think they fought for the Byzantine Roman Emperor. 
Something to think about? 
Merry Christmas 
Warwick

From: Pat Schnurr
Sent: Jun 20, 2003
Subject: Gyles Kellwaye

I saw that marr. for Gyles Kellwaye & Margaret Clarke in Stratton 9 Oct. 1569  when we worked Dorset this year.. She is shown as being from Sturminster.  (Dorset Marrs. Vol.  XV Stratton) another new mention I got on a Giles was

Somerset Visitation Vol. VII, p. 45.  Bruton Hundred Milton Church was given to  the Canon of Bruton in the late 12th century.  By 1535 the Canon was letting land and tithes,.  In 1549 the crown granted the whole rectory to Giles Kelway. I had not seen that before.

Pat


From: Warwick Kellaway
Sent: Jun 20, 2003
Subject:  Gyles Kellwaye

Thank you Pat.

Whether there is any future with Giles or not is not clear - did he have any descendants? - we do not really know.  However, from the Dorset perspective, which might involve the IOW at least, it would be great to find some of them.
I note his wife came from Sturminster.  Thus it appears that it may have been Giles who was living at Stratton. 
A small village, and about as far from Bridport, as Sturminster.  Sadly no assistance yet as to whether he was the first Giles, his son, or no close relation.
I did have Giles receiving property in Bridport, Kingston Russell and Chilfrome - now also Milton - between 1548-50.  All of this seems to have been acquired through cousin Robert.  Both Kingston Russell and Chilfrome are only about 7-8 km from Stratton, although Bruton and Milton (Milton Clevedon?) are some distance away.
Is it possible therefore that Galleass Giles also received property at Stratton, or he, or his descendants lived there?
Was there a manor house there?  Can't imagine him living in a farm cottage, although his son may have.
Stratton is only 2-3 km from Forston, which again brings Nicholas into the picture.  Is it possible Galleass Giles, being born around 1515, was the father of both Nicholas and Giles of Stratton?    I would still love to locate some of the 1570+ christenings from Stratton.
 
Hopeful ramblings
Best wishes 
Warwick

From: Bruce Callaway
Sent: Jun 21, 2003
Subject:
Galiasse Giles/Gyles

I have always been intigued by Galiasse Giles/Gyles. Using the 'find' button on Kellchat to remind me of all our references to him, I was firstly struck by Pat's previous listings from the Dorset Tudor Muster Rolls of 1542. Here Gyles Kayleway (Gent) of Bowode provides 1 harness with bow; 1 sheft of arrows. Significantly however, in listing the other C/K's contributions of bows and arrows and the like, it fairly comprehensively locates where in Dorset in 1542 they lived! To save you the trouble of looking them up, I will list them In addition to Gyles there was: Rob Kylwaye of Gyllyngham Nic Calaway of Weymouth Burgess Martin Keyleweye Kt. of Lillington Peter Calwaye of ? Ric Caylewaye of St. Andrew, Piddletown Hundred Edward Cayleway of Piddletown John Calwaye of Wyke Henry Calawey of Weymouth. From Sherrill's notes of May 15 2001 and June 11 2002 A Gyles Kellwye was Churchwarden Charlton Musgrove (borders Stourton Wilts) 1574-1597 A Gyles was buried there in 1574 (?Galliasse Giles). That year a Gyles K/C (son of John Kellwye) was christened there whilst A Giles (? son of Gyles) was christened at Charlton Musgrove in 1594 Not being as familiar with Dorset as you'all, I do not know if this revision of the research will help or hinder, but whilst there was obviously several Giles/Gyles, 'Galiasse' G was obviously a very significant son of Sir John and must have left some significant tracks!

Bruce


From: Pat Schnurr
Sent: Jul 01, 2003
Subject:
W. Calewe, Knt. Ledbury, Hereford

At the PRO I picked up a small book entitled "List of Rubbings of Brasses" printed in 1915 by the Dept. of Engraving Illustrations and Design. P. 64 in a section of Academical Costumes 15th century listed
             C 1410  - W. Calewe, Knt. Ledbury, Hereford - V & A 1907 (no plate).

There was no description just the words as I have copied.  There were pictures and descriptions of other robes, costumes, etc.  I wonder if this means that there is some sort of book or perhaps even a robe in existence -- and at the Victoria and Albert Museum?.  I have strolled thru the V & A at least three times and remember a whole section of magnificent costumes  in elaborate cases.

The book was indexed and W. Calewe was only name shown. for C/K's.  

Is there any way you can check this out?    Just the mention means there is something somewhere.
Pat


From: Warwick Kellaway
Sent: Jul 2, 2003
Subject: 
W. Calewe, Knt. Ledbury, Hereford

Hi Pat
 
I cannot comment on the book, but Sir William Kelway (presumably also Calewe) is one of those interesting characters from the past, who was of some import, but we cannot really place in context.
 
Brian Kelway Willoughby sent me the information - Ledbury is not too far from Cheltenham - but I do not know where he actually got his information - probably the Gloucester records.
The memorial brass is in Ledbury Church, Herefordshire, and commemorates Sir William, priest and knight, who died in 1409. (I do see a caption on my picture referring to The Gentleman's Magazine Vol LXIV (1794) p 1162).
He is referred to as chaplain in 1387, and in 1390 as clerk, to be enfoeffed to the manors of Basyngge and Bromlegh in Hampshire.  (These people moved around even then) 
 
He is commented on as wearing academic robes, indicating that he may have been a master at the Grammar School. (They actually look more like a monk's cassock to ignorant me - there is a small version in the Chronicles).  Also that he may have been a Lollard, which was not a very good idea at the time, as they were regarded as heretics.
 
Hereford is next to Gloucestershire, and I have wondered whether there were later family members in the area, particularly as there are locations such as Callow Hill, Callow End and Callows Grave not far away.
Whether he came from Herefordshire, Hampshire, or elsewhere, we do not know.  I also see some similarity with the William Calwe, Notary Publick of Exeter, who was forced to eat his seals of office in 1384.  But he, and his wife, were still apparently in Exeter in 1407.  Again a William Calwe, clerk, was paid a yearly rent of 12 marks for a property at Northcraye in Kent in 1388.
The Registers of the Bishops of Exeter between 1395-1450 refer to several Williams under Church Orders at the time - William Kelyowe/Kylyow at St Erme, William Kelwa at Lanothull, Cornwall in 1408.  The latter appears to have progressed through five Church Orders at Tavistock.  William Kelwe was at Lelant in 1411, Clyst in 1413, and probably Colebrook in 1415. 
None of this explains the "knight".  Few in the family actually seemed to have used the title, if they could.  There was a difference between Sir and sir, which referred to a priest, but this does appear definite as Sir.  (I see there was a "sir" Peter Kelyow at Foek in 1450). 
 
William of Ledbury was however a man of some standing.
Regards
Warwick
From: Bruce Callaway
Sent: Jul 2, 2003
Subject: GENUKI St Michael & All Angels Church, Ledbury, Herefordshire

Excellent work Warwick on Sir William of Ledbury. I had established that there is a publication "Victoria and Albert Museum Catalogue of Rubbings of Brasses and Incised Slabs" 2nd Edition 1929,reprinted 1969. Neither the V &A or Oxford University will allow the general public to view the rubbings because of fragility, so nudge nudge, wink wink who knows? One day young Bill may be passing by with his camera to photograph the dear lad. I believe this to be the Church Bill!
 
( http://www.wishful-thinking.org.uk/genuki/HEF/Ledbury/StMichael3.html )
Bruce
From: Pat Schnurr
Sent: July 2, 2003
Subject: GENUKI St Michael & All Angels Church, Ledbury, Herefordshire

Thanks -- great pictures.  I will have to mull this over. Now anyone want to tackle the Kelway C/O quartered with Chudleigh at St. Edmund's Church, Exeter, Devon.  Simon Chudleigh - 4th Rector of St. Edmund's in  1442.  In Exeter Chuirches by Beatrix Cresswell P. 52 - (c/o not shown )  Got scant info on Chudleign family from this book.  What was connection?  Pat


From: Warwick Kellaway
Sent: Jul 3, 2003
Subject: GENUKI St Michael & All Angels Church, Ledbury, Herefordshire

Pat 
Personally I have no knowledge of any family connections with the Chudleighs.  However Exeter is prominent in the Devon records.
 
I referred to Master William Kelway and his problems in Exeter in 1384.  The disturbances were directed against the Bishop and the King, and were subdued by Edward Courtenay, Earl of Devon.  William was closely associated with the Bishop, and with wife Marina, is recorded as giving an oratory in 1401.
 
Chuddleigh is only some 15 km south of Exeter, and it seems there was a substantial Abbey/Church there. 
Again from the Bishop's Registers, we had Willemus Keleway at Chudleigh in 1427.  Jacobus Keleway was there in 1443, probably going to St Nicholai Exeter in 1444, becoming sir James Kelwa, rector of Dodbroke in 1450.  James Keyleway was Custor of Exeter Cathedral.
 
There is no family link there, but the Chudleighs almost certainly would have come from Chudleigh, and despite the fact that men of the cloth did not normally marry and produce a family (there were some exceptions), undoubtedly they had siblings who did.  It seems very likely therefore that there were relationships somewhere between the families.
Sorry no information on them. 
Regards 
Warwick
From: Pat Schnurr
Sent:
Jul 3, 2003
Subject: St. Edmund's

Bruce et al -- Cresswell in the History of Exeter Churches - St. Edmund's gives a great deal of information about the church.  She includes a picture of the front which is the third church on the site built after the fire in 1833.  On page 30 she is talking about the glass in the various windows.   She says "On the north side one window has two quarries of old glass with armorial bearings:--(1) Ermine 3 lions rampant gules --Chudleigh, impaling barry gules and vaire --Beaumont, (2) Chudleigh, impaling argent 2 glaziers irons in saltire sable, between 4 pears pendant or--Kellaway.

She goes on to say the connection of the Chudleigh family and St. Edmund is unknown. 

Recovery & Restoration - (at PRO) pub. 1985 page 75 refers to "The Juries of Devonshire" - Chudleigh Parish near Exeter.  Devon in 1642 was one of a few counties who responded to the order to fund the war in Ireland by land sales. 
The Muster Rolls were held to implement the Royal Commissions - and provoked such hostility that at South Moulton and Cullompton near riots broke out.  Parliamentary leaders mentioned were Sir John Northcote and Sir John Bampfield, Sir George Chudleigh and Sir Peter Prideaux.  None were to survive in govt. during the 1650's.   Also found mention of William Chudleigh in Inqs. P.M. during reign of Henri VIII and Chris Chudleigh  during reign of Elizabeth.

Thanks for additional info.  Pat


From: Bruce Callaway
Sent: Jul 4, 2003
Subject:
Devon local studies service. Exeter. Royal pardon 1642
  Pat, There are many many references to the Chudleigh family extending back to the 13th century. You mentioned this one which I append. Thank you for the description of the COA. I note that it is mentioned in Burke's "Extinct and dormant Baronetage" where the latter also notes that their seat was Asheton, Devon, which property was inherited by one John Chudley(Chudleigh) marrying a Thomasine Prous in 1320. Their son Sir James became the first Baron of Ashton and three generations of Georges followed on.   There were many female Chudleigh descendants, and they married many prominent persons of the times. I guess that it was inevitable considering the circles in which the C/K's moved at that time that a marriage would have occured, but I can still not find any reference to it. I will keep looking.  Bruce   PS Happy 4th July! It is with fear and trepidation that I alert you to the fact that GOOGLE may have been 'spiked' by a ?politician. Try typing in the 'search' weapons of mass destruction, and then hit the 'I feel lucky' button!!!

This is G o o g l e's cache of http://www.devon.gov.uk/library/locstudy/1642eng.html.
G o o g l e's cache is the snapshot that we took of the page as we crawled the web.
The page may have changed since that time. Click here for the current page without highlighting.

1642. England. Monarchs. 1625-1649. Charles I. By the King. A proclamation of His Majesty's grace, favour and pardon to the inhabitants of ... Exceter.- ([London] : [s.n.], [1642])

Westcountry Studies Library: LE 1642/11/09. - Wing C2669

The Civil War split the county and even families down the middle. In Exeter there was considerable sympathy for Parliament. While pardoning the citizens of Exeter for their financial support of the rebellious armies the King excluded Sir George Chudleigh, Sir John Northcote, Sir Samuel Rolle and Sir Nicholas Martyn from this general pardon. The royal coat of arms and the generous layout is used by the printer to good effect in an attempt to reinforce the impression of royal authority.


From: Sherrill Williams
Sent: Jul 4, 2003
Subject: Discussion
  Hi - it's great to see the discussion going again. I have been busy still typing notes.  We got a great deal on the earliest C/Ks following the Conquest, along with Giffard data which helps put it all into perspective.  We (the C/ks) rubbed elbows with the "high and mighty" and those associations are evident down through several centuries.   In order to have a fruitful discussion of all these things, I am going to send to each of you, on diskette, copies of our 2003 record gathering.  I have Pat's - Cary, where are you?  Mine is nearly finished - just have Dorset to do, and it is short as so much time was spent unfolding the ancient papers.  I have not attempted to deal with the "copies" yet.  Most are Latin, but maybe can decipher enough to make sense of them.  That will come later, if the sun will ever shine here so I can go on the deck (without threat of rain) where the light is best.  Our drought is "zilch."   Later today, I will send you a transcription of the will of Richard Keylway of Stoford, Barwick, Somerset.  It is interesting.  I have also worked on a Chancery case involving Richard dealing with the debts of his father, Thomas. Will take a bit longer to complete this item.   Get ready for the fun times ahead.      Sherrill

From: Warwick Kellaway
Sent: Jul 4, 2003
Subject: Jasper Kellaway

> Hello all again,
>
> I see things are starting to happen.  Don't know too much about the weather in other parts, but we have a cold front coming up from Antarctica, and expect a cool weekend.  It won't snow here, but it is down to 300m further south, and snowing near Christchurch.
> The system is working well.  The ladies offer a question, JWK makes some comments, and the man with the chicken accesses his vast store of reference information and produces great pictorial evidence, and it is all enlarged upon.
> And there is a lot more to come.  Look forward to that Norman News.
>
> Have just received my 22 page CFANET Newsletter.  As with the other mail this morning, wills et al, there is a lot of digesting to do.
>
> The comments about the 1650s are interesting, as I have just gone back to Googles "Kellaway NZ" and found a reference, on page 25, to the Combs family of Barbados.   It seems there is quite a lot of research on Barbados, and it began, in 1656, with the exile of 80 men and a youth, Royalist Exiles, prisoners, "to be disposed of at the best rate in exchange for commodities".
> Probably subsequent to the suppression of the uprising against Cromwell at Salisbury in 1655.  Among them was a Jasper Kellaway.
>
> Unfortunately nothing really about him, but there were Jaspers of note in the 16-1700s, the most relevant perhaps being at St Georges Chapel Windsor (remember?), beginning with little Jasper being borne, and baptised, on 7 Sep 1668.
> Charles II had returned as King in 1660 - to Windsor. Jasper may/may not have been the son of  Dean's Curate Thomas Kelway, or a Jasper, but Henrietta-Maria (Queen's name?) a daughter of Jasper was
buried there in 1680, and his wife Frances in 1697.
> Did poor old Jasper ever get home - was he compensated - Windsor - or did he remain in Barbados?
>
> The Barbados information seems to come from the Lord Mayors Court of London - Depositions Relating to the Americas 1641-1736 - Peter Wilson Coldham 1980.  The reference could also cover other "shipments" to the Americas in that period - Virginia etc?
>
> Keep warm
> Warwick


From: Sherrill Williams
Sent: Jul 5, 2003
Subject: Jasper Kellaway
> I found the following in Peculiars of the Dean & Chapter of Sarum:
>   Kelleway, Jasper senr. of Sarum & Hester Smith of the Close, Sarum Cathedral (marriage); bondsman,
> Jasper Kelwaye junr..  5 April 1640.

> --- Schnurr200 at aol.com wrote:
> > If the uprising was in Salisbury -- how about this picked up this year.
>      This must be a second marriage, and Pat's register listings are for Jasper, junr.???
> >
> > "Salisbury Cathedral Bapts. and Burials bwt  1564 - 1837 (Wilts.)
> >
> > 1635 - Elizabeth dau. of Jasper Kellaway and Honor - buried April 5, 1641 - Jasper Kellaway s/Jasper and Ester bapt. Dec. 12, 1641 - Jasper s/ Jasper and Ester buried.
> >
> > No others listed but there were apparently others living right there.  Pat


From: Bruce Callaway
Sent: July 5, 2003
Subject: COA
  Russ,   I assume you want the K/C COA and not the COA of Sir John of Rockbourne, so attach the former in gif. but can also supply it in BMP format.   The description is Argent (silver) two grozing irons in saltire (crossed) Sable (black) between four pears vert (green) engrailed Sable (bordered by a black scalloping).   Look forward to getting the gene project off the ground. Let me know what I can do to help. Happy 4th July   Bruce

From: Sherrill Williams
Sent: Jul 5, 2003
Subject: COA

If we are going to "start" to "begin" thinking about a > DNA project, we need to "start thinking."  I have subscribed to this e-journal for some time now. Go to their website and explore.  By the way, Bruce, Russ wants a copy of the "nippers and pears" COA - just the  shield without the "chicken" or tiger or whatever else sits atop.  He would want the proper colors  (tinctures).  Do we have such a thing lying around?
Russ, I received the "talk to it" software.  Looks interesting.  I'll try to install and give it a try
shortly.
Sherrill


From: Pat Schnurr
Sent: Jul 15, 2003
Subject: Bishop Kellewe's Seals

While at the PRO I spent some time looking at a book entitled "Ecclesiastical Seals in Durham Treasury" Published  by Greenville and Blair 1917-18. I copied a great deal of it and it is included in the copies with my notes sent to Sherrill and Cary.  However, the poor old machine at the PRO copied everything so faintly it is hardly readable - or else they were trying to save on the print ink.  I have  copied this so thought maybe you all might be interested.

Bishop Kellewe - Seal No.  3127 - Oval, 3 l/2 x 2".  The Bishop is standing on a pedestal in a niche.  With canopy of tabernacle work, vested in alb, stole, dalmatic, with orphreys, chasable and amice.  He wears an embroidered mitre, his right hand blesses, his left with maniple holds the crozier.  In a smaller niche on the dexter is the figure of St. Cuthbert in mass vestments and mitre and holding the head of St. Oswald, in a niche on the sinister side is the crowned figure of St. Oswald with sceptre.  Each of these figures stands on the head of a monster.  Above the centre canopy are the figures III.

A footnote below says - Wwith this seal the change begun on the seal of Bishop Farnham is completed and we have the Bishop with his attendant Saints forming one group within the architectural setting.  The absence of armorial decoration is probably accounted for  by the lowly origin of the Bishop.  The Crook of the Crozier is more ornate than the previous seals which  have shown only a plain curve quite free from ornament.  The Roman numeral III above the canopy denotes that he was the third Richard, Bishop of Durham.  His Register has been printed in four volumes entitled Registrum Palatinum  Denulmense in the Roll Series edited by Sir Thomas D. Hardy.  His will is printed in Wills and Invents No. 21

A second seal, oval 2 l/1" x 1 3/5" is described as Our Lady standing with the child Christ under a trefoiled canopy.  On the dexter side is the head of St. Oswald, on the sinister, the head of St. Cuthbert.  Beneath, the Bishop in mass vestments is praying.  The field is beautifully diapered. 

A third seal - No. 3128 is Oval 1 3/4" x l l/3 ".  The Annunciation  In front of the Archangel Gabriel is a scroll upon which Ave M.  Above the head of the Blessed Virgin are clouds from which descends the Holy Dove with nimbus.  Beneath, the Bishop kneeling, prays.  I attempted to take pictures of the seals but they were so faint and so small that they just resemble blobs.

In addition to the information on the seals of the Bishops there was a section entitled Private Seals -- there were many Kellewe seals - all of which appear to belong to the Bishop's extended family.

One which I thought was interesting  --now that Bruce has the Chicken on his head C/O perhaps we should all get seals.   Seal No. 1478 - Kellawe, Peter of  ---A.D. 1292-95 Oval 7/8" x 3/4"
An ape, with an owl seated on its right paw, riding on an ass (Sounds familiar)

Anybody  seen this?  Pat


From: Warwick Kellaway
Sent: Jul 15, 2003
Subject:
Bishop Kellewe's Seals
Great Pat
 
I had seen the official arms of the Bishop of Durham, but they appeared to be a standard form, probably from many years later, but no evidence of any seals.  Richard's Register and Will are also awaiting access somewhere.
The seals sound very ecclesiastical, except for Peter's which is unusual - owls, apes, asses?  Peter who died in 1313, was at different times referred to as a vicar, rector, and magistrate/clerk. 
(If Bruce has the chook, maybe I should take the ass - falling off.)
 
Note the comment about "lowly origin".  We have a little information about his parentage - being the son of Thomas and Agnes - and descended from a prominent local family - whatever that means.  I did get a little more on him, and his rellies, from the Register of Bishop Bek 1283-1311, his predecessor.  This indicated some family importance between 1285-1310, including a William in 1286 and 1292, who appears to have been recorded earlier in 1269 and 1272 at Gloucester.  Richard's brother Patrick was the senior knight in Durham, and presumably commanded the troops of the Bishop in Durham, and Bannockburn.  (William may be the key, as he received a years protection from Henry III in 1269, and could have been Richard's brother). 
There is also information about an Alexander, possibly Richard's uncle, and his son Henry, in Durham between 1260-83.  Aimeric and his wife Joan were also referred to in 1283. 
(Coincidentally perhaps, there was an Alexander de Caillouet, huntsman of Robert II of Meulan, who held the fiefdom of Caillouet in France about the same time.  Cross Channel connections were still very strong at that time.)  
 
There is really little available on his earlier family - as with all the others - but family members were prominent considerably before Richard became Bishop in 1311.  His father Thomas must have been born about 1230, but whether in Durham, or perhaps more likely further south, we do not know.  Possibly Richard was a dominant local churchman, but it is more likely he had important connections in London.  It was a powerful, largely temporal, position - the Bishop had his own standing army - to restrain the Scots.  No King, not even the weak Edward II, would permit a potential problem to become Bishop.  I think there must have been connections at Court somewhere. 
 
Edward I, the Hammer of the Scots, had been thrashing them, although they got their own back later - including Bannockburn in 1314, during Richard's reign as Bishop.  It may be the family was involved with Edward during the earlier period - remember the pear trees.
(Incidentally that Holywood film about William Wallace, Baseheart or something, was totally historically incorrect - Wallace was executed by Edward I, not Edward II, long before most of that shown occurred - his girlfriend, Edward II's Queen, was a baby when Wallace died.  Wallace did manage to defeat the English in 1297, but Edward I, using the famous Welsh longbowmen for the first time, more than returned the complement the next year.  He was on the run until his capture in 1305.) 
 
Got a bit carried away there,. but we are getting more and more of those jigsaw pieces.
Back to the ass, or bed. 
Best wishes 
Warwick
From: Pat Schnurr
Sent: Jul 17, 2003
Subject: Durham Seals

Well -- Sherrill -- we can chew on this for awhile.  we will need an index of Durham Kellawe's just to sort them out.  Warwick -- Poor Richard did have a hard time with Edward II.  He didn't want him as Bishop in the first place. Wanted "favorite" - He did furnish 1,500 troops for Bannockburn and his brother Patrick led them. It is estimated that they had almost 100,000 troops there against 30,000 Scots.  Said "the King did not have the interest of the people with him". In Vol. I History of Durham - footnote says "In the Bodleian Library the MSS - original register of Bishop Kellow, Bishop of Durham - a folio of inestimable wealth.  Contains a great no. of charters, commissions, etc. issued or made by this prelate together with other writs sent in the bishopric by K. - the register was borrowed out of the cursitor's office by an agent of Lord Oxford to produce evidence relating to some   action of Northumberland and that an accountable receipt was given for them which is remaining in the office".

Also, in my stuff is copy of will Sherrill found in 2000.  Mentions brother Patrick and 100 lbs. he left to church.  Not much else.   Pat


From: Warwick Kellaway
Sent: Jul 18, 2003
Subject: Durham Seals
Pat
 
There is a lot coming forth about the Durham C/Klan.  Some more on Richard too - seemed to recall a will. 
It is fascinating that there are so many references that have survived up there.  They were even into Coalmining.  A Butcher's Shop?
 
Sorting out who is who, is a little more difficult.  If you look at the original Chronicles, there are a number of them there, obtained from other sources.  It would still take some time to rationalise them.  Locations are another interesting field - some names remain much the same - others don't.
 
The last sending of "Private Seals" takes us back to Thomas, Bishop Richard's father in 1256, Alexander and Mermedonia also in the mid 1200s, Peter in 1295-97, Emeric in 1303, Patrick in 1313, and William between 1310 and 1318 at least, plus a number of ladies, who were evidently entitled to have their own seals.
 
While I still suspect a family link with Thomas and perhaps Alexander, both probably born around 1230, quite likely the first William, if brother of Bishop Richard and therefore also son of Thomas, there do not seem to be any obvious links later.
The gradual name change, from Kellawe to Kellow is evident in the seals, while I am fairly certain that the present day village of Kelloe near Durham is another derivation - probably from Magna (greater) Kellawe.  There is a Church there, and I wonder if it is the Parva (smaller) Kellawe Church.  Unfortunately I do not know the area at all.  When in the region 13 years ago we visited Durham Cathedral only, at night on the way south, knowing nothing at the time of any family connections (co-incidence?).
(With regard to the names, are the Kellaway and Kellawey references correct? - if so this would be by far the first use of the spelling so common today.)
I see Elias de Galuwaye and Elias le Galeway in 1348 and 1350 (note the de and le).  I had an Elias Kellawe in 1348 - same man?
(I won't push it, but what about those Scottish Galloways?)
 
One interesting aspect is the use of "double" de/s - with the family name followed by the place of residence - unusual to have it that way.  With a 1380 seal there were several de Kellawe witnesses - clearly residents, not family.
Lawrence de Seton, I am fairly sure is Lawrence de Kellawe.  He may have been the son of Adam.
 
There is some suggestion of a lack of heirs, which may explain the later virtual disappearance of the family up there.  I did have John and Alice the children of John Kellaw in 1408.  John jnr died in 1410, but Alice married John Lambton before dying in 1439.  Also that William de Kellaw held the manor of Harebarowes, and that his daughter and heiress Joanne married John Fossour before 1417.  Joanna, if the same lady, was about 80 when she died about 1457.  That William, and there were a number of them, would have been born about 1350.  The 1378-87 Seals would probably relate to him, as William de Kellawe/Kellaway(?) de Herbarowes, not William de Kellawe de Lomley (two de/s), and his son Robert.
 
Bishop Richard himself certainly had a rough time.  He had to settle Bishop Bek's debts before he could assume the Bishopric in 1311, and the next year was ordered to provide food (including nearly 1000 animals) for what must have been the entire Royal Household, then staying at Newcastle-upon-Tyne.  Following the defeat at Bannockburn in 1314, he had to arrange a huge settlement to prevent the Scots attacking Durham - no doubt a lot of his and the family money.
I think we can assume that the family had some relationship with Edward I, but the weak Edward II did not like him.  It was Edward II's army, badly led and foolishly not using the Welsh longbowmen, that failed at Bannockburn.  His son Edward III later rectified the matter.  (Funny how the Scottish victories are "remembered", and their losses ignored)   The longbowmen could fire six arrows a minute at long range - a medieval machine gun - as the French soon found out. 
Fun isn't it.
Best wishes 
Warwick

From: Bruce Callaway
Sent: Jul 18, 2003
Subject: Introduction to Medieval Seals

C'mon you guys! Here I am stumbling along with Coats of Arms and now y'all are onto seals. Lordy me! following is like holding onto the tail of a tiger (Rampant of course!)  Bruce

See interesting information on Seals at the University of Notre Dame


From: Bruce Callaway
Sent: Jul 19, 2003
Subject: Kellawe

Whilst we are off and running with the Kellawe's, and I know that Warwick has mentioned Walter de Kellewe as a Carmelite Friar in Yorkshire c.1348 (C/K Chronicles page 14), I have uncovered a bit more detail. See attached.   With reference to the Durham seals, y'all have aroused my interest! I have noted on the University of Durhams website a listing of Greenwell and Blairs catalogue. I believe that it is possible to do some family groupings by the depictions on the seals. For example Cecilia Kellawe identified as the wife of Patrick in 1330 displays a "Stag at Speed" whereas by 1336 she has a "Lion Rampant" with ? her image above.   If indeed this is an image of Cecilia, it must be one of the earliest images of a C/K in captivity! You will note that her husband Patrick (S'Patrich de Kellawe AD1313) also has the lion rampant, as do a number of the others listed. One lion rampant is described as rude (as Pat has noted). As there is no actual photograph of this particular seal, the mind boggles!   Richard Kellawe 1320 (S'Ricardi D'Kellav) has a lion rampant. One must assume by the dates that other family members were entitled to use a similar seal. I shall continue my investigations into medieval beeswax!
Bruce

Patrick Kellawe Seal    Cecilia Kellawe Seal

Read:  British Province of Carmelite Friars  


From: Bruce Callaway
Sent: Jul 19, 2003
Subject: Medieval Seals on-line

Prof. D. W. Rollason Department of History, University of Durham.  

Dear Prof. Rollason,  

I note your appeal through the PRO for support for Medieval Seals on-line. As this would be a most valuable genealogical resource that could become much used throughout the world, I would like to record my personal support for the initiative.  

Just a few months ago researchers from the Callaway Family Association of America discovered the Greenwell and Blairs Catalogue whilst on a visit to the U.K. I note that the University of Durham has an excellent website which displays the seals in the Catalogue. A number of KELLAWE seals are listed.  

The Kellaways and the Callaways (with variant spellings), having joined forces in genealogical research and having established a common origin to the names are well advanced in medieval connections. You will be aware of Richard de Kellawe, Bishop of Durham 1311-1316. Having established linkages to the Bishop whose life is recorded in much detail, our researchers were understandably excited to find the seals of others of the name bearing the Lion rampant which features prominently in the Bishop's COA. We are attempting to place these folk.  

Obviously, for researchers to have access to seals on-line from other areas of the U.K. particularly through the resources of the PRO would be a most valuable and widely used facility. It has our enthusiastic support.
Yours Sincerely, 
Dr. Bruce C. Callaway
Sydney, Australia


From: Warwick Kellaway
Sent: Jul 20, 2003
Subject: Kellawe

Bruce   Marvellous backup again.  Some fascinating seals - can't recognise the lady's face however.   These seals could prove to be more valuable than the COA we were scratching with.  I know I virtually gave up looking for the family arms among the few accessible from that time.   

Probably the Durham c/klan were a branch, which became more separated with time, but that lion rampant, rude or not, is interesting.  The 1320 Richard, who presumably died in 1343, left a widow Agnes, son William (born 1332), and could well have been the son of the early William, or maybe Patrick.  Patrick and Cecilia anyway had the lion.  Presumably Magistrate William of 1343 was the father of 1342 William Jnr, also of one (Chaplain) Nicholas mentioned in 1354, 1360 and 1370.  Simon was the father of the other.  A third part of the manor of Magna Kellow was mentioned then.  Curiously Henry in 1345, with children John and Elizabeth, had a third part of the manor - was it shared between three brothers? - perhaps the sons of Alexander, as Henry was his son.  If so, presuming Alexander and Thomas were brothers, Alexander was perhaps the elder, and originally held the manor, which was divided on his death - between sons Henry, 1320 Richard, and William?  Where does Simon fit?  

It seems possible that Bishop Richard may also have used the big pussy cat seal, which commonly indicated a person or family of considerable import - not necessarily the lowly status quoted elsewhere.  If they all had the lion, we have a family.  I had suspected that Bishop Richard, Patrick and the early William were brothers, the others cousins.  (Someone needs to have a Mensa level to work it out, or maybe a special computer programme).   

The real question may be - just who were Thomas and Alexander?  And when was Magna Kellawe founded.   Earlier researchers were apparently just as confused about spelling variations as we were.  I still wonder how Kellawe became Kellaw or Kelloe - phonetics don't seem to work - or did they use a different language up there?  Are they Geordies - but that is at Newcastle?  

I'm sure there will be more in the mail. Best wishes Hopalong  PS    It is due to be -2C here tonight.


From: Bruce Callaway
Sent: Jul 20, 2003
Subject: seals of Bishop Richard de Kellewe

I believe we now have an image of a C/K older than Cecilia! I know that Pat has already given descriptions of these seals of Bishop Richard de Kellewe (1311-1316), so I will paraphrase. The first seal shows Bishop Richard standing on a pedestal. On the left side is St. Cuthbert holding the head of St. Oswald. Why he is doing this is a mystery, because a non-decapitated robed figure of St. Oswald holding a sceptre appears on the right! Both Saints stand on the head of a monster.  

The second seal shows Our Lady with the child Christ. Beneath her is our Bishop Richard praying. Now we have on the left and right sides the heads of both Saints sans body!  

Just a little more to add to page 14 of Warwick's Chronicles. In 1366 Isabella, widow of William de Kellawe of Lumley, granted her manor of Whittonstall and two parts of the manor's demense to the de Menyvilles. The grant in the possession of the Uni. of Durham indicates that she had inherited the manor from her Father Robert Darrayns.The Darrayns were very prominent around Durham. The manor is not now extant as shown by the aerial photograph attached, but is subject to a current archeological dig.  

Quite a bit more the DK's (Durham K's) but will forward later.
Bruce Callaway
Sydney, Australia

Manor Whittonstall    Richard Bishop Durham Seal    Richard's other seal


From: Bruce Callaway
Sent: Jul 25, 2003
Subject: COA in Sherbourne

Thank you so much for your disc which arrived this afternoon. Also for the copy of Greenwell & Blair which has much more detail on the seals than is available on the University of Durham's website. It gives relationships and references which in due course will tie up the medieval C/K's of the north, and add a little to what Warwick has already garnered.

You ask, Sherrill, about the COA in Sherbourne. I think that I have this on file complete with the mullet (rawl of the spur) denoting a third son. Unfortunately the College of Arms only has indexes dating back to 1530. From that time on they sent out Heralds in visitations to record and verify COA's. Prior to the College of Arms, whilst Coats were well established they were preceded by blazons (Fowl on head) and preceded again by Seals, you have a gap of some 400 years before COA's became regulated.

It is clear that the C/K's pears and glaziers nippers preceded even the Worshipful Colleges. More particularly the Worshipful Company involved with stained and other glass.It is also clear that the C/K's had their pears and glaziers nippers before the College of Arms came into effect.Leaving aside the pears, the glaziers nippers(syn.grozing irons) are an ancient device. They are described  by Theophilus in the year 1000 as "grosarium ferrum". Somewhere along the line we picked them up.

Until such time as we can establish this, I see little hope of finding out who the third son was and of whom. Frustrating isn't it? Of what there is no doubt is the fact that an ancient C/K was involved with glass, but whom?
Bruce Callaway
Sydney, Australia

Sherbourne nippers banner


From: Warwick Kellaway
Sent: Jul 27, 2003
Subject: Callaway and a few Roberts and Giffards

Sherrill  

The connection with Frank Holden looks promising, particularly if we can glean a little more about the Stafford Barton/ Dolton area.  Hope to hear more.  

I am finding your latest massive sending very interesting in many respects, but have a long way to go to digest it.  

Before making comment in detail however I would like to refer back to Robert II of Wards and Liveries fame. (5 July message - just after my mishap). I agree we are now coming to accept that he was closely related to the Rockborne Knights, even if there is no factual evidence available. Also that he was almost certainly the son of Robert I of New Sarum. 

Perhaps however we need to consider the fact that, if he was Robert I's son, and born in 1497, Robert I must have been born around 1470-75. 

As Sir John was also apparently born around 1470, we should perhaps see Robert I as a brother of Sir John, and son of the first Sir William, rather than his son.  The fact that neither Robert is in the Pedigrees could be explained by Robert I being born out of wedlock, either before William married, or from some liaison later. 

Francis and Ambrose could not have been Robert II's first cousins, as they were too young, but still "cousins".  Dame Ann would have been more like a niece, by marriage.  

Sorry to spread more confusion, but we also have that elusive Thomas, born in 1476, with sons Robert and William, born presumably about the same time as Robert II.  Robert I could have been Thomas's brother - there seemed no problem having two sons, or daughters, with the same name at that time.  That family was associated with the Gawens - John later marrying Jane Gawen, Alice marrying William Gawen.  There also do not appear to have been any Roberts among the later descendants of the Knights. 

Again there is a certain amount of wooliness over Thomas, who I think was possibly the son of another Thomas, the son of William of Sherborne, and half brother to the first Sir William.  (There are two Thomases identifiable in the Pedigrees as the sons of old William of Sherborne - different mothers - but neither could have been born in 1476, if William died in 1469.) With all this uncertainty, the Pedigrees could have missed Robert I somewhere.  

I still see Robert II's main association with the Rockborne Knights as being social/political, and perhaps educational - Sir John and Sir William presumably introduced him at Court.  His father should have been able to see him educated in Law, although again the first Sir William (if his grandfather) could have arranged that.    

Comments?  

I was intrigued by the Giffard Tree, and the huge amount of information accompanying them.  At first was puzzled as to how John le Calewe could possibly be seen as an heir to the Giffard properties, when there were Giffard male heirs available, but the copious notes probably explain that it was a "convenience" at the time.  

The Tree detail is very interesting, although we need to look closely at the C/K line of descent, as I still think they missed a John.  (Bertha's son Elias must have been born about/before 1200, his son John about 1230, the "missing" John, who probably left the 1308 will, about 1260, then the Giffard Inheritance John, who died in 1336.)    

In the Giffards there is also a problem, as Elias Giffard IV is said to have been a minor in 1201-2 (born at the latest in 1181).  Unlikely, if his younger sister Bertha was the mother of naughty Matilda, who helped murder her husband about 1220, and had a daughter of presumably teenage at the time.    Matilda would have been born probably around 1190, Bertha around 1165.  Elias IV's father Elias III was said to be dead before 1190.  Unless the Tree has mistakenly put Bertha as younger than Elias, when she was at least 15 years older, Elias IV would have to have been born around 1160.  (Don't think the 1220 murder date is too far out)

(Unless there are errors, they could have missed a generation in both families.)  

Matilda's problem could be suitable for the Newsletter, Donna.  Makes a good story.  

Must go and do some more reading, and stirring.  
Best wishes   Warwick


From: Bruce Callaway
Sent: Jul 28, 2003
Subject: Kittric Nether Compton Parish Church, Dorset  

Absolutely fascinated by the History of Ashmore and the Ashmore Registers. Particularly the Penruddock's Rising and the attempt to roast the twins 'naked in a dripping-pan before the fire'! This has just got to be a great story for Donna's newsletter!  

Importantly however if we can ever sort out the Patrons and the Rectors of Nether Compton, Ashmore and Sutton Bingham, we will be a long way forward in explaining the K/C alias as Clarke and the association of these both with Sherborne and Rockbourne, but Wow! is it complicated.  

Just scanning your English research at the moment on the disc, but before we get to far away from COA's, crests and seals, I note that we really should be paying more attention to the crests. You quote Fairburne's "Book of Crests" wherein the K/C's of Hampshire and Sherborne Dorset have their Grozing irons and pears crested by a silver chook, (chicken) combed, wattled, beaked and spurred in blue. Whereas the K/C's of Devon and the Stowfords have either a black tiger (passant and regardant) or a silver barnacle bird cresting their nippers and pears. More later   Bruce

See information from Dorset at this web site: http://www.swuklink.com/BAAAGBYS.php


From: Sherrill Williams
Sent: Jul 29, 2003
Subject: Robert I, crests etc.

Thanks, Warwick. I do agree that Robert I would more likely be a brother of Sir John of Rockborne. I mis-spoke in saying he was son of Sir John. However, I don't think Robert W & L  was "illegitimate" but was, instead, the only son of the marriage of Robert I to Alice Gover (the widow Byfleet).    

Robert I remains somewhat a "mystery man" even tho' we know he was a Mayor of Salisbury as well as briefly an MP. His "projected" dates of birth and death are not beside me as I write, but he may not have been long married to the widow Byfleet before his death.  Robert I seems to have been a "merchant" but he may have inherited that position by his marriage to Alice, as I think I have read that John Byfleet was a merchant in Salisbury. Alice's son, Thomas Byfleet, as suggested on the pedigree chart, was her heir. Thomas Byfleet is mentioned in the Chancery Case involving Alice Keilway and William Dean, also suggesting his heirship and interest in the mercantile business in Salisbury.    

Another clue to the relationship to the Rockborne family is found in one of the many chancery cases involving the property. In one, I think involving Lady Anne's joynture in the property, reference is made to "Mr. Robert Callaway" (or however spelled). Whether this is Robert I or Robert W & L will need to be checked on.  I have transcribed this chancery case, but not typed it which I must do, to determine the time perspective, etc.  Nevertheless, here is one instance of a Robert's connection to Rockborne manor.    

I still feel that Robert W & L has a "full blood relationship" to the Rockborne family. Nothing he does, via his will, or other conveyances, ever involves the Sherborne family. His allegiance seems totally toward the Rockbornes.  A number of the leaseholders of the Rockborne family's properties are also found around Salisbury as public officials, etc.  And then, there is the Webb family mystery.    

Robert W & L certainly had influence to get his "foot in the door" with the Crown of the period, and no doubt the influence came from the Rockborne family, the only ones who seemingly had the influence.  But Robert W& L's relationship to the family should have been the reason he advanced so far.  He certainly recognized this as shown by his generosity towards the Rockborne family in his will.    

Of course the Rockbornes and the Sherbornes have common relationships at some point in time.  Our problem with the generations of the Sherborne family is causing confusion.  It would also be helpful if we could learn to whom, and when, the first COA was awarded.  The Sherborne family, the Rockborne family, and John of Cullompton, all shared the same "pears & glaziers' snippers" COA, as well as the C/K-Stoffords (Staffords). The fragment of the arms in St. Catherine's chapel, said to be a "quarter" of arms, has the mullet (3rd son), thus my question - third son of whom? - and with what family was it "quartered"??  How can we begin to answer the question of the common ancestor of the Sherbornes, Rockbornes, Staffords & John of Cullompton?    

Awaiting some brilliant answers. Sherrill


From: Warwick Kellaway
Sent: Jul 29, 2003
Subject: Robert I, crests etc

No brilliant answers Sherrill, but I am sure we are getting closer.
 
My reference to illegitimacy was meant for Robert I.  Robert W&L is no problem if we assume he was his son.
I don't myself have any problem with Robert I being the son of Thomas of Sherborne/Whitparish or Sir William, both being the sons of William of Sherborne - but would still like to know. 
If he spent most of his long life associating with the Rockborne family, he would consider those cousins ahead of the other family.  The Rockbornes would obviously find him very useful in legal matters.  Incidentally he did apparently live for some time at Lillington House, and was deeply involved with the Sherborne family squabbles over Bapton with the Estcourts.  Bapton and Whitparish in Wiltshire are as close to Salisbury, as Rockborne.
 
You mention John of Cullompton again.  Another enigma.  I had always presumed he was a Dolton descendant, and possibly was.  But he definitely related to Sherborne Abbey.  The Abbey may well have dominated family interests in those days.  (As we still have a problem with 1476 Thomas, is it possible that his family was missed in the Pedigrees altogether, and John was Thomas's brother?)
(To recant my story there, William of Sherborne purportedly had two sons named Thomas - one in each family - the elder, born c1430-40, was said to have produced sons Robert of Sherborne and William of Stalbridge.  But they would seem to have been the sons of the Thomas born in 1476.  There was a lot of confusion over the early Williams and Thomases, and possibly 1476 Thomas was the son of the earlier Thomas - two Thomases, father and son.  No evidence, but the dates otherwise don't match up.)
 
Must have a look again at the twins in the frying pan Bruce. 
The relationship of the geographically separated families around 1500 is probably well illustrated by the COA crests.  All used the basic shield, but the chook was clear with the dominant Rockborne family, also the Sherborne/Wiltshire people, while the Dolton/Devon lot had a tiger or barnacle bird.  Those Devon variations are interesting, and could indicate two families, one more closely related to Sherborne.
It had been said that, while the two Devon/Dorset families had separated early, they intermarried later.  I had noted that Edmund moved from Kayleways in Wiltshire to Chawleigh near Dolton in Devon about 1395, and suspect that there were later several families in the area. 
(The coupling of the recognised pear shield with the leopards face shield at Dolton Church very likely gives us an earlier COA, used at least in Devon).
 
My theory remains that the accepted family arms came from the stained glass in the rebuilt Sherborne Abbey, and would probably date from somewhere around the time of rebuilding, c1440-75.  Who they were presented to is the question.  First assumption would be the C/K who was involved with the reconstruction/reglazing.  However, as William was knighted in 1501, he could have chosen the arms then, either because of the importance of the stained glass work, or because he had actually been in charge of the artisans.  (The glass would have been installed late, and he was just old enough).
 
Best wishes 
Warwick 
PS    My mail to Michael Cayley bounces back - has he a new address (Cayley at cix.co.uk)?

From: Bruce Callaway
Sent: Jul 29, 2003
Subject: Robert I, crests etc

I have been closely following The Sherbourne/Rockbourne disccusion, and concur that Robert W&L is not only a common link but closely related to both families. I believe that Robert 1 the mayor was his daddy, and I have no difficulty placing Robert 1 as a grandson of William of Sherbourne.

 I have a problem with this Warwick. I believe the arms to be much older than this which brings me to page 9 & 10 of your Chronicles and Muxbeare. I have confirmed that in 1242 William Calleway or Kelloway held one fee in Mukelbere and Sweteton 'of the honor of Gloucester' (Fees,p780). The manor (in Halberton parish) was not sold by the family until the very late 1500's therefore was a family nest for a much longer period than either Sherbourne or Rockbourne. This then possibly makes the Dolton arms of considerable interest.

I thought that the appearance of the 'onion bulbs' between the crossed glaziers nippers a late aberration. I now have reason to believe that they preceded the pears which were adopted some time later as a more suitable device as the family gained influence at Court. (No-where do onion, garlic or daffodil bulbs appear as a device in Britain or the continent {except in Wales} whereas pears were reasonably fashionable).
 
Which brings me to the glaziers nippers. I believe them to be possessed by the family in the 13th or 14th century when the family was associated with (yet to be discovered) glass manufacture. I believe that we may be able to place William of 1242 as a progenitor of the Sherbourners and the Rockbourners! Admittedly this does not help with Sherrill's 'fishy' third son!
Bruce

Dolton


From: Bruce Callaway
Sent: Aug 3, 2003
Subject: Cailly

Sherrill,

 
You really have thrown down the gauntlet! Your excellent reply to Isaac D. Callaway in the current Newsletter was read with much interest. Firstly let me say that after the Monmouth Rebellion most of the non politically correct were still being transported to the Caribbean and Virginia. Australia began receiving this 'trash' (may the Lord preserve me as Dawn's ancestor was one of them!) in 1788.The American Revolutionary War necessitated England finding an alternative 'dumping' ground. I concur that Pete was a refugee from Cromwell and Joe probably from the failed Monmouth Rebellion.
 
I really still do think that Joseph was a hang over from the association of the diminishing fortunes of the C/K's and the end of the Muxbere/Sherbourne/Rockbourne 'dynasty' and the entry of Anthony Ashley Cooper, the beneficial owner of Rockbourne and a member of the Virginia Company. The C/K's although bankrupt still had their 'ear to the ground'. Fortunes were being made in the New World. But who knows?
 
What I feel with trepidation that I must take issue with is your statement that the C/K name had its origin with de Cailly. It must surely draw a long bow (despite local accents) to get Cailly to Callewe, much less to Callaway. I have examined most of the established experts who published works over the past 200 years, and they are virtually unanimous that Cailly and Callaway have different origins. Admittedly both originated from Normandy which figures. BUT Phillipe de Caillouet was on the scene in Gloucestershire 45 years after the Norman conquest.
 
It is proven that the Caillouets and the de Caillys married into the Giffard family. There is no doubt that the Caillys became Kellys, and that there were distinct Kellewe, Kellaway/Callawe families. I applaud your latest tack to identify properties rather than spellings of the surname, but there is no way that I can see anything common to the de Caillys and the C/K's. Even 'our' Caley has dropped out of the loop. I remain as always willing to be convinced!
 
Bruce Callaway
Sydney, Australia

From: Pat Schnurr
Sent:
Aug 3, 2003
Subject:
Joseph Callaway, Clifton Maybanke

Hi Bruce -- we know that Anne Stroud hid Joseph after the battle of Sedgefield.  He had apparently been with Monmouth entourage the night before the battle at the Stroud Manor.  He was forty years old.  We know that he was listed as being from Clifton Maybanke and I found his birth date in Bradford Abbas  I spent several days doing circles in the Lillington - Sherborne area trying to find more on him.  Could not locate a marriage date or any children.  His parents Martin and Ursula show no  brothers or sisters for him.  Went up to North Petherton and to Yeovil looking for answers -- nothing.  However, he was hanged at Somerton, quartered and his head put on a pike so he definitely did not come. to Va.  My thought is that he did have children and possibly a son named Joseph who was taken out of the country - and to Virginia. In our Monmouth stuff it is mentioned that lots of the men escaped - many going up to Bristol and taking boats - paying to hide their identities.  We made the same search around Exeter trying to find the Thomas K. - Davy link.  Did you see my notes about the battle at Lyme Regis -- and the mention of Colway Field and  Colway house.  I thought that was interesting since Thomas was killed at Lyme  Will we ever know.  It is like hitting your head against a brick wall -- several times.  Pat.


From: Bruce Callaway
Sent: Aug 18, 2003
Subject: Joan versus Joanna and the Agneses

Sorry about my vertiginous 'doodling'. Had a good sleep, taken Sherrill's advice and believe that progress has been made.
 
Studying the inq.PM for Ellis of Bapton Nov.14 1506 to-gether with Sherrill's notes on the Pomeroys dated 15 July 2001 (Thank goodness for Kellchat) it became clear that Henry Barrett's wife Joan/Joanne/Anna was a Camell of Fittleford Dorset.Their daughter was JANE(Joanna) Barrett who became the first wife of William K/C of Sherbourne.
 
After Henry Barrett's death Joan married Henry de la Pomeroy but did not bear him any children. Henry however secondly married an Alice Raleigh of Fardell, Devon and their second son Thomas Pomery (of Berry Pomeroy) married Agnes K/C who inherited Cheriton Fitzpaine from her dad John who died in 1478. (see attached)
 
Agnes K/C's dad John was the son of William K/C of Sherbourne, and you will see by the attached that she had an auntie Agnes/Alice the daughter of William of Sherborne. Now all this is 'set in concrete' and I will have to have some fairly persuasive arguments to shift me. There are at least two more Agnes/Alices in the family which I will sort, one of which was the daughter of Robert K/C of New Sarum, but being on relatively good terms with my program (it hasn't shouted at me lately), I am deferring the imput of any Roberts!
 
Bruce

See these links: Joanne and Joanna Barrett, and The Pomeroys


From: Sherrill Williams
Sent: Aug 20, 2003
Subject: figuring out the Pomeroy connection

Bruce, thank you, thank you, thank you for figuring out the Pomeroy connection. I had fretted over that for a long time. It was a classic case of not seeing the forest for the trees.  The small C/K lineage inserted in the Pomeroy pedigree [Visitations of co. Devon] was recited from the Inq.p.m. of Katherine Huddesfield. She was a d/o Sir Philip Courtenay of Powderham and widow of Thomas Rogers when she married Sir Seintclere Pomeroy (d. May 1471). Katherine later married Sir William Huddesfield who predeceased her. She died Jan 1515 at Shillingford. She had no children by Sir Seintclere Pomeroy or Sir Huddesfield. Her heir was her son, George Rogers. Katherine was apparently acquainted with our C/Ks, thus we continue to have the Courtenay connection around the fringes.
    As the result of a "google" search, no one seems to know who the widow of Roger de Ledred was, not even that her name was "Joan." We now know that to be a fact.  Actually "they" say that Roger Ledred was born c1400 (s/o Henry Ledred & Amy Downe) and died before 1448.  Roger's daughter, Alice Ledred, was born c1425 and died 18 May 1514 at Somerton, Somerset. She married William Strode/Stroud (born c1420; died 14 Sept 1499 at Somerton, Somerset).
    In view of all the above "facts," I am now willing to venture that Joan, widow of Roger Ledred, married William K. (d. 1469), but was probably a second wife, and probably not mother to any of his children.
    I am now further willing to believe that William, son of William (d. 1469) is the one married to Joan Barret.  Their granddaughter, Agnes K. married Thomas Pomeroy.  The legend written beneath the name "Thomas Pomeroy" on the Pomeroy pedigree suggests that Agnes' father, John K., gave them "Cheriton Fitzpaine" &c. on 20 Sep. 1478 [could that be the date of their marriage?].  I am curious as to what the &c. property included.  Attempting to date this Pomeroy connection, the pedigree shows that Thomas Pomeroy was the 3rd son. His brother, Sir Seintclere, was 1st son, who died May 1471 without issue. His heir was brother Richard Pomeroy, the 2nd son who was age 30 in May 1471, thus born c1441.  Therefore we can judge that Thomas Pomeroy who married Agnes K. was born not long afterwards, say around 1443.
    Another matter - the significance of the John Chidyock/Chidiock record could derive from the fact that a son of Sir Humphrey Stafford ("silver hand") & his wife, Elizabeth Maltravers, named William Humphreys [killed at Sevenoaks, 1450] married Katherine, a daughter of Sir John Chidiock. Katherine remarried (who?) according to the pedigree of Humphrey Stafford, and died in 1479.
    The COKERS:  Most of the Cokers seem to have lived at Mappowder. However, the C/K pedigrees all agree that Elinor Coker who married William K. was a daughter of John Coker of Ashe, Dorset.  Ash(e) is not a Dorset parish, so it must have been a manor. Ash, a town in Dorset, is located right next to Stourpaine, and a few miles north of Blandford St. Mary and Blandford Forum. That could possibly explain why Robert, s/o of Thomas K. "the younger" was a resident of Blandford.
    The Visitation of Wiltshire, 1565, pedigree for Keilway of White Parish, describes the arms of C/K quarterly, 1 & 4 Keilway,  2, Argent a leopard's face Gules between five crows Sable (Barrett), 3. Camell.
    My most recent COA acquisition from Wiltshire R. O., 2003, has a drawing of the "leopard's face & 5 crows" and labels it Ellis.  Well, which is it, BARRETT or ELLIS?
    This is a 5000 piece jigsaw puzzle!  I am just trying to find a few of the pieces.  More will be coming, shortly.
    Sherrill

From: Sherrill Williams
Sent: Aug 24, 2003
Subject: Bruce Callaway's Robert Tree

I have just saved all the mail to diskette and will take it downstairs to print out.  Don't trust my memory, but will comment on Bruce's Robert tree. Bruce, I am sure you got it right, except that Agnes may be a daughter of John Byfleet and Alice Gover, thus a half-sister of Robert (W & L). The Byfleet pedigree suggests that - she is the one who married SOUTH.  Alice, who married GAWEN, is not on the Byfleet pedigree, so I believe she is a "full" sister of Robert (W & L). Did I send an attachment containing a Chancery Case involving Dame Anne's jointure in the Rockborne estate?  Francis gave testimony regarding that, and said that at, or near the time of, Dame Anne's marriage to Sir William C/K her jointure was worked out and granted by Sir John C/K with Mr. Robert C/K..  Which Robert this was (MP or W & L) is not clear, but at least we have a Robert dealing with the Rockborne estate.  I typed this but don't know if I sent it, so, if not, let me know and I will send that along.

I have been working on our Sherborne/Lillington lineage.  "Joan Barret" has been our "sticking point."  I now believe she is a bigger "sticking point" than we realized.  Does anyone know who Henry Barret was?  I have looked and looked for his name in print, without results.  John and William Barret were prominent around Sherborne, involved in the Almshouse and other Sherborne matters, but no HENRY shows up, so far.  I will ask some other questions about the Joan Barret connection shortly.  But now, to my other mystery.

For a long, long time I have wondered who Dame Elizabeth Caylewaye of Hutton, Somerset was - I am still wondering.  Can anyone help identify this connection?

Will of Elizabeth Caylewaye [15 Porch] [from Somerset Wills, Somerset Record Society], The Rev. F. W. Weaver (1905), Vol. XVI.
October 20th, 1526.  Dame Elizabeth Cayleway, widow, of the parish of Hutton in the county of Somerset.  To be buried within the chauncell of the parish church of Hutton or ells within such place as it shall please God at the time of my departing out of this transitory world. 

To the high awter of the said parish church of Hutton for my offeryngs and tithes negligently forgotten 3s.4d. 
To the reparacion of the said church 40s., or ells to the use of the said church as my sonne THOMAS PAYNE shall think best to Godds pleasure and my soule helth. 
To the monastery of Mynchyn Bucklond 6s.8d.
To the charterhouse of Wittam 6s.8d.  To the mother church of Wells 3s.4d.
To my daughter Mary a ryng of golde with a stone therein, a crosse of gold with foure litell pearles, and a flatt pece of silver. 
To the house of Worspryng 5 marcs.
Residue:  To my sonne THOMAS PAYNE all my goodes moveables, etc.
[named executor].
Witnesses:  Thomys Hanson, clerk, my goostly fader, chosen at this present tyme and notry publique, John Tyllty, and William Yong.
Proved January 30th, 1526.

PAYNE pedigree (from Visitations of Somerset)
Of Hutton, nr. Weston-Super-Mare.
Arms:  Gu. three crosses botonne Arg. on a chief Az. two escallps Or.
[Collinson, III, 591]

I    John Payne = Lady Jane Kelloway
A    Thos. Payne (*4) = Elizabeth  [Sa. a bend nebule Arg.]
      1.  Thos. Payne, of Som. 1573 = Marg. d. Baynham

(*4)  footnote:  "Pray for the soule of Thomas Payne, squier, and Eliz. his wife, which departed the 15 day of August 1528."  Col. III, 591.

These two items fit together in some manner, but what Caylewaye did Elizabeth, widow Payne, marry?
Sherrill


From: Bruce Callaway
Sent: Aug 24, 2003
Subject: Another Agnes/Alice placed

Hi All,
 
This sweet Alice has led me to Robert W&L! Two firm references place the Father of the lass who married William Gawen as ROBERT K/C of New Sarum. Their son Thomas Gawen was referred to by Robert W&L as his nephew and left a pair of silver salt cellars. He was also a witness to Robert W&L's Will.
 
Close examination of Robert W&L's will (Abstract of Somersetshire Wills 4th series as provided some time ago by Sherrill) reveals some very interesting things, and I would always back a will against the published 'pedigrees'. Thomas South of Swallowcliff is also referred to as his nephew, so one must assume that Robert and sweet Alice had a Sister who married a Mr. South.
 
Before I proceed with the rest of my assumptions, I would remind you that Robert was a lawyer, the overseers of his will was no less than Sir Thomas Bromley (Lord Chancellor of England), a Robert Freke of Shroton and Edward Anderson (Sarjent-at-law) therefore one must assume that the deliniation of his beneficiaries would have been accurate.
 
He refers to his cousins Francis and Ambrose. Clearly, as Warwick has hypothesised before they were his second cousins. Robert W&L married late in life. He would have been a batchelor and 28 when Francis was born, 38 when Ambrose was born and respectively 40 and 42 when their Sisters Elizabeth (1.Skilling2.Crooke) and Mary (Button) were born.His close association however with his 'family' is further shown by the fact that he was Godfather to both Elizabeth and Mary's children.
 
Robert W&L was never knighted. Extraordinary when you come to think about it. Many theories spring to mind, but I will leave such conjecture for later. What is fact however, is that he stuck closely to the Rockbourne knights for most of his life to the almost total exclusion of his Sherbourne/Lillington rels.
 
Until proven wrong therefore I and my machine have to declare that Robert W&L's daddy was no less than ROBERT K/C of New Sarum a.k.a Robert 1, the Mayor, the sometime member of parliament and brother of Sir John of Rockbourne!
 
Bruce

From: Warwick Kellaway
Sent: Aug 24, 2003
Subject: Another Agnes/Alice placed

Yes yes Bruce.  You are firing well. 
Actually the pedigrees I have also give sweet Alice to a Robert of New Sarum.  Your deduction looks very logical. 
 
Where I had a problem previously was that Robert, the son of Thomas, was the only Robert listed in the pedigrees, who was old enough to be Robert W&L.  Since then of course we have found Robert W&L's father was another Robert.  My deduction then was out, but actually not the Pedigrees.
There remains the problem as to who the elder Robert was, and there is still no real evidence.
 
Yes, Robert W&L associated with his Rockborne cousins, which is logical as they were all somewhere around London, at the Legal courts, if not the Royal. 
I suggested before that one reason for no recognition in the Pedigrees was that his country cousins may have seen the London crew as upstarts, but conversely they may very well have been considered by them as country bumpkins?  Robert was of an older age group anyway than his surviving country cousins when he died, and probably by then well was out of touch.  (Incidentally William was knighted by Catholic Queen Mary in 1553, which may have put some of the family out of favour for a while when Elizabeth arrived?  It could also have impeded a knighthood for Robert.)
Did Robert not however remember his nephew Thomas, the son of William, in his will?  (Thomas was presumably Thomas the Younger, son of William of Stalbridge, and of the Sherborne family.) 
 
We do not really know that Robert W&L's daddy was the brother of Sir John, any more than he was the brother of Thomas, the father of William of Stalbridge, which is where my confusion began.  (Thomas did have a legitimate son Robert, as well as William, but it was not then unusual to have two Thomases, or Marys, in the one family.)
 
My apologies to Robert the elder, but he could have been the product of a liaison out of wedlock?  Which again could make him the brother of Sir John, or even Thomas. 
Again I refer back to the strange situation which suggests to me that the Thomas said to be the son of William of Sherborne, presumably born about 1430, may have been the father of the Thomas we know born in 1476.  If so there could have been another unlisted sibling or two around at that time - there is nothing in those maligned Pedigrees to indicate that 1476 Thomas actually had any brothers, or not.
 
Isn't this fun. 
Warwick

From: Bruce Callaway
Sent: Aug 25, 2003
Subject: Who is Henry Barrett

I am sorry Sherrill that I did not track back for you on Joanne/Anna Camell of Fittleford Dorset (b.ca1400) who married 1.HENRY BARRETT and 2.Henry de la Pomeroy. Henry's dad was John Barrett of Whelpley who married Agnes Ellis, and all this info comes from Inq.pm Nov 14 22HenV11(1506) Ellis of Bapton, which I believe that you supplied!
 
Now Henry Barrett and Joanne Camell's daughter was of course Jane/Joanna Barrett (born c.1410) the first wife of William K/C of Sherbourne(d1469) and I surmise the source of much wealth and property for the Sherbourne crowd, and the origin of the Camell arms at Lillington.
 
I have a hunch that the Pomeroy arms feature at Lillington also, but hold on that. As a prophylactic measure I have decided to have two days 'Vertigo R&R'!(Actually a prior engagement), but I am quite intrigued by Warwick's suggestion about Sir William's mysterious brothers Peter and Thomas about whom we know zilch (They have always puzzled me). Now that we have a spare 'Dame Elizabeth of Hutton', I need to talk to my 'machine'. As Cary would say More later! 
Bruce

From: Sherrill Williams
Sent: Aug 25, 2003
Subject: Help on these windows

This is supposedly from the house at Lillington, "once the mansion of the Kelways, Coles, etc. In 1738 these arms were in it.

THE NORTH WINDOW:

1. Argent, a chevron sable. .  . .winged argent; impaling, Gules, a chevron charged with a fleur-de-lis or between three swans proper; under it V. L.

2. Quarterly i. and iv. Kelway;  ii. A leopard's head gules between five martlets sable.  iii. Azure, a camel passant argent, Camel, impaling 1, Ermine, a cross saltire azure; 2, A leopard's head gules between three
martlets sable;  3. Azure, a camel passant argent; 4.  Kelway; under it B. G.

THE SOUTH WINDOW:

1. Kelway and quarterings; impaling 1, Gules, a chevron between three swans proper; 2, Sable and or, a demi-lion issuant Sable; under it K. 1580 L.

2. Kelway and quarterings; on an escutcheon of pretence, Gules, a chevron between three swans proper; under it, K. L.

THE HALL WINDOW:

In the middle, Kelway.

 On the right hand, 1. Leweston.  2. Azure, a cross ermine.  3. Ermine a cross saltire sable.  4. Gules, two lions passant sable.

On the left hand, 1 and 2, the quartrings of the Kelways; 3. Argent, a fess between three anvils sable;
4. Fitzjames.

In the NORTH WINDOW, #2 - whose arms is quartered with Camel -
1. "Ermine, a cross saltire azure" ?
In the SOUTH WINDOW, #1 - whose arms are Kelway & quarterings impaling -
2. "Sable and or, a demi-lion issuant Sable"  ?

Just trying to cover all the bases.  I hope this doesn't send Bruce back to bed with a COA headache!
Sherrill


From: Warwick Kellaway
Sent: Aug 27, 2003
Subject: More family fun

Hi all

To add to the current agenda.  I have been taking a new look at Brian's 1999 File.  Is everyone aware that he had recorded 112 C/K wills from 1469-1837. I had asked him for some, mainly of Dorset, which I sent transcripts of through some time ago.  As time goes by, others now look interesting - for example I do suspect all three of the K members of that Burning Ship may be there.

Also there are over 600 family references he has listed from 1120 to 1499. Only abbreviations, but I used many of them when producing the Chronicles. Some others now look interesting.

Other information refound:
The presumed Tree of the Mokisbere family.  It makes sense from the time of Nicholas about 1150, up to the 1400s at least.  My problem is that it presumes the Rockborne family originated in Devon.  My current thought being still that Edmund went "back" from Wiltshire to Devon, (Cheldon, and Mokisbeare?) and thence his descendants got to Sherborne.  He has Edmund, of Mockisbeare, as the son of John, father of Thomas, with reference to Rockborne.  It fits, if the previous patron of Kellaways Church, William, was perhaps an uncle, and not Edmund's father.

"Sir" John Calaway furnished 15 footmen for the Flanders Army in 1453.  He had Robert Keilway I MP for Salisbury, born by 1483.  Some years are accurate, other unfortunately had to be guessed. One, you may remember, is Elizabeth Kelwey, widow of John, re the tenure of Cullompton Mills in 1493.  Same widow?  Which John?  Cullompton?  Our John's father?

With regard to Sir William Calwey, priest and knight of Ledbury, there was a comment with the brass that his name could have derived from two places near Ledbury and Hereford, named Callowe.  (These may be among the Callow names I had spotted on a map).  Who lived there?

More fun.
Best wishes
Warwick


From: Warwick Kellaway
Sent: Aug 28, 2003
Subject: Devon/Rockborne C/Ks

> Sherrill,
>
> I won't get too involved with the COA for now - will wait for Bruce's comments.
>
> As regards the Devon/Sherborne/Rockborne connection, the issue is complex, but there is no doubt in my mind that all the families we are dealing with at that time (around 1400) are connected - Stowfords and all.
> The facts to date being:
>
> Edmund de C/K and his wife left the Wiltshire manor about 1394, although still apparently remaining patron of St Giles until 1399 (said to be for life).  They went to Cheldon/Chawleigh.  In Devon, not far from, but not
to either Mokisbeare, or Stafford Barton. After six years, another family member, John de C/K, returned as patron of St Giles from 1405-1429.  A John also appeared at Chawleigh during this period, presumably therefore he was a son, or close relative.  (Whether the same man or not we do not know.)  There was at least one John, presumably the father of William of Sherborne, in Sherborne in the early 1400s.
Another John, presumed to be William of Sherborne's brother, appeared shortly after (there was a series of three Johns recorded in the 1467 IPM). The Thomas, who married Joanne Bingham, was in Sherborne around 1400.  He is also referred to in the Mokisbeare Tree, as the son of Edmond, who incidentally was described as the son of John.  (At St Giles there was an earlier patron John, who apparently died in 1336, and who matched the well known John le Calewe of Dorset - descended from the Giffards.  However the patron immediately prior to Edmund - from 1336-1376 - was William).
>
The curious thing is that there seems to have been a stated differentiation between the Devon and Dorset families, although they shared similar arms. There was mention of intermarriage.  The Devon branch was also described elsewhere as the "younger". Sadly the Dorset Pedigrees only begin with William of Sherborne, whereas the Devon family, which generally became Stowford then Stafford, is recorded in detail, perhaps back to William about 1200, certainly to Philip, the claimed "younger" son, a couple of generations later.
I could not originally find any connective names with the Sherborne family, although it does now look as though there may have been a Thomas/John/Thomas succession around 1400.  However before and after this time there is no apparent similarity. The dates for the Dolton family are virtually guesses, and we need a lot more research in that area. When and where any intermarriage occurred we do not know.
>
My theory is that the family owned/occupied the properties at Mokisbeare Devon, Dunes Weston Dorset, and Kellaways Wiltshire, from a very early time, and could move from one to another as suited the occasion.  The eldest son occupying the principal home, younger sons elsewhere (eg Dolton) and for example, should an eldest son die without issue, or there was some problem, (as seems to have occurred in Wiltshire with a Courtenay), or maybe for some reason such as the building of a new manor (which could have occurred at
Chawleigh), the principal family moved to another county.
>
In this way, while Edmund may have gone to Chawleigh, a son, John, could have returned to Wiltshire, before moving on to Sherborne.  If, as we suspect, Thomas was Edmund's eldest son, he moved to the Bingham areas of Dorset and Somerset. (If William of Sherborne's father was a younger son, that could be the reason for his parentage not appearing in the Pedigrees - particularly as the Heralds in the 1500s had such a problem sorting the out the later names).

The importance of the Wiltshire manor should not be understated.  From Elias de C/K to John le Calewe they were important in other places.  Family members from there seem to have continuously used the "de" prefix, into the 1400s.  When they lived elsewhere it was discarded. In Devon there was a use of de Stowford, clearly that location, and a differentiation from the other, but it also could have meant the place Stowford, rather than Stafford Barton - were they there as well? (Something else to explore).
>
I suggest, pending hopefully more information, that the first family was known as de Cailli, and it was their younger sons, possibly born in England, possibly direct from Caillouet, who made up our first families.  Apart
from the Gloucestershire families of the 1200s who could have "reverted" to Caley or Cayley, the Devon Kelleys could have originated, either from the de Caillis, or come over direct from Normandy.
As regards the Durham family, the similarity to names in Normandy at the time, without an obvious direct link further south, makes me suspect that they may indeed have come direct from Normandy in the early 1200s.
Not sure what we are looking at around Hereford, but the location could be very old, predating Brimpsfield and Side.
>
We have little information as to who was living at Mokisbeare over this time, but if the principal family retained all these properties for so long, it is quite logical that the more remote family members from Stafford Barton could occupy/lease one or more properties, such as Idlecote or Cheldon, in the 1500s.
>
Hope I am not confusing anyone's thoughts more than before.
Regards
Warwick


From: Bruce Callaway
Sent: Aug 28, 2003
Subject: Devon Rockborne C/Ks

I turn my back for a couple of days and you guys start messing with "my" family! Seriously though I have to agree with most that has been said, particularly as how I have not seen anything which seriously alters the input to my program! The COA's are another matter and I already have a headache.
 
Firstly we previously discussed at length the arms which appeared in the Lillington 'mansion' when y'all found the arms in Godney church which had obviously originated from the north window of Lillington. I will try to re-attach to remind you. The swans belong to the Lyte family and though we have evidence that two Lyte girls married K/C lads, no-one seems to have figured which two K/C's. You will recall however that Martin K/C (He of the will) married a Dorothy FRAMPTON. Dorothy had a brother Francis and a sister Joan who also married a LYTE.
 
The Camel is not a problem. William (1469) of Sherbourne's first wife Jane/Joanna Barrett brought these from her Mum Joanne who was a Camell of Fittleford Dorset.
 
The Lyte swans are married to (impaled) a silver shield with a black chevron with a silver .......winged critter which was not identified in 1738 so presents a problem 265 years later! The wretched red leopard's head with the varying number of black martlets to-gether with the crossed cross defies current research.
 
It is of much interest that the Lyte swans appear twice again in the South window.
 
The Hall window is the piece-de-resistance however. Here we have my discovery for the day! In the middle our K/C. On the right hand, 1. LEWSTON. 2.and 3. the wretched crossed crosses, but 4. the red shield with the two black lions belongs to STRANGEWAY! Sir John of Rockbourne married a Strangeway and his uncle Thomas married a Lewston, thus I believe confirming your hypothesis that the Rockbourne knights originated from Devon.
 
An asprin and back later. 
Bruce

Lyte      Godney


From: Bruce Callaway
Sent: Aug 29, 2003
Subject: Windows, COA, crossed crosses

A little more on the Hall window of Lillington. Argent a fess between three anvils sable resembles the COA of SMITH, Abingdon, Berks. The crossed crosses to which I clumsily referred are actually a common device. Vide the cross saltire of St.Andrew (Scotland) and the cross saltire of St.Patrick (Ireland). Therefor the 'ermine a cross saltire sable' is virtually a black St. Andrew's cross virtually indistinguishable from our own glaziers nippers.

Bruce


From: Sherrill Williams
Sent: Aug 30, 2003
Subject: Getting the generations right!

Here are a few things to consider while trying to get the right people in the right place at the right time.
>
> Patrons/Presenters at Kellaways, Wilts:
> Date        Parish                            Patron
> 1304    Cayllewey                    Johannes de Cayllewey
> 1312        "                                        "
> 1336    St Giles, Calewey        W. de Cayleway
> 1348    Cayllewey                      W. de Caillewey
> 1376    Kaylewey                       Edmund de Kaylewey
> 1380    Kaylewey                       Edmund de Kaylewey
> 1399    Tudryngton Cayleway   Robert Stodeleigh
> 1405    Kayelways                     John de Kaylewaye
> [That was the last of the C/K patrons of Kellaways through 1936.]
>
>     The Stoford/Stafford pedigree (Visit. of Devon) and the "Kellaway of Stowford" pedigree (same source) lists 8 generations of Kellaways before "they" say the name changes with Thomas Stowford (d. 18 Jan 1502/3 - of
the Inq. P.M.) who married Ann, d/o Thomas Copleston of Luckham, Somerset.
>     The pedigree credits Thomas & Ann with two children:
> 1.  Richard Stafford (no additional data)
> 2.  Philip Stowford, age 30 in 1503 (b. c1470); d. 22 April 1533; md. Alice
> Yeo (the remainder of the Stoford/Stafford pedigree concerns their
children and heirs).
>     A footnote says: "The portion of this pedigree from the commencement in ordinary type is from the Coll. of Arms and 'other authorities' (I would be suspicious of the 'other authorities') that part in italic is a copy of
the Visitation of Devon, 1564, Harl. Ms."    The italics begin with the above Thomas = Ann Copleston.
>     Using Warwick's calculation of 30 years per generation, I have backed up the preceeding generations, starting with 1470 for Thomas' birth, and applied approximate birthdates to those list in the prior 8 generations.
In the States, we use 25 years per generations for estimation purposes. That would, over time, add a generation or two. For our purpose here, I have applied estimated years of birth for the 8 generations. However, I have no
> idea how correctly stated the 8 generations are!  Whatever, perhaps we can begin to get our perspective in order.
>     The first 8 generations are: (Kalleway)
> I     William (b. 1230)
> II    Thomas (b. 1260)
> III    Philip (b. 1290)
> IV   Thomas (b. 1320)
> V    Philip (b. 1350)
> VI   Thomas (b. 1380); md. d/o Prous, heir to her brother, Hugh Prous of Gatcombe.
> VII   John (b. 1410)
> VIII   Thomas (b. 1440) = Joan, d/o ___?___
>
>     Moving on up into the next century, let's go to Whiteparish, Wilts.
The list of freeholders there has suddenly become very annoying to me, as you will see.  Mr. Hoar did not give a reference for his list of freeholders, unless it is from "Court Rolls of the Manor of Whelpley."  Wonder where
> those might be located?
> Freeholders:
> 1493  (8 Hen VII)    William Cayleway, John Estcourt
> 1498 (13 Hen VII)    William Keyleway, John Estcourt
> 1502 (22 Hen VII)    William Keyleway, Thomas Estcourt
> 1519 (10 Hen VIII)    William Keilway, Thomas Estcourt*
> 1560  (2 Eliz)            John Keilway, Edmund Estcourt*
> 1561  (2 Eliz)            John Kelloway, Giles Estcourt
> 1569 (11 Eliz)           Henry Kelloway, Giles Estcourt
> 1576 (18 Eliz)           No C/K  -  No Estcourt
> *  right here is a 40 year gap where we really need to see the descent of this land!
>
>     The William Cayleway, freeholder in 1493, could be William the son of William (d. 1469) - or it could be his grandson, William.  The grandson certainly appears by 1519.
>
>     Back to the Lyte COA.  Yes, Bruce, I did recognize the Lyte COA in the Lillington window.  The Lyte pedigree, Visit. of Wilts, 1623) shows that William "Black Will" Lyte married Dorothea, relicta Buller, d/o Edw. Kellway of Rockborne [Edw. being an error].  The other C/K connection is that Henricus Lyte de Lytes Cary mar. "Agnes, Dau. et Coh. of Kellway of Cullompton married 1546; buried at Charlton 1564: ux 1.".......so we have a Devon and a Rockborne playing in the same ball game.
>     Sherrill


From: Warwick Kellaway
Sent: Aug 30, 2003
Subject: Getting the generations right!

Hi Sherrill

You are pretty right with your dates.  Some further comments on the people involved:

I am fairly sure that the 1304 Johannes is the son of the Dorset man with the 1308 will, or more certainly the 1308 man was, and probably his heir (the Johns were successive at that time).  He would have been the Giffard
inheritor, who died in 1336, and had presumably moved from Dorset to Wiltshire about the time the first St Giles was built in 1304.  However there had been continuous family possession from perhaps 1165, or not long
after.
(I won't bring up the confusion that these Johns were also said to be "late of Brimpsfield", and of Mokesbeare.)

Not sure where that patron William fits, or even if there were two of them, as the list of patrons might imply.
The Mokesbeare Tree gives John as the father of Edmund, so it seems William could have been Edmund's uncle.  Whether Edmund had remained at the Dorset manor (Dunes Weston or whatever), or lived elsewhere we do not know.  I think however we can assume that the patrons would have lived, for much of their time anyway, at the adjacent manor.  It seems therefore that probably Edmund lived at the Wiltshire manor from 1374, until he left for Chawleigh about 1394, building more chapels - one called St Giles.  Possibly then remaining at Chawleigh until he died, being patron of Cheldon rectory from 1396 to 1411.

The John who went back to Wiltshire from 1405-29, also may have had one foot in Chawleigh, as a John was patron of Cheldon Rectory in 1440.  I still think he was Edmund's son, and brother of our Thomas, both being born around
the time Edmund became patron of St Giles in 1374.

The appearance at Sherborne shortly after this time possibly meant that someone in the family was still living in Dorset, unless Thomas moved into a Bingham property after his marriage.

With regard to the Stowford/Stafford family, your dates are within a few of what I estimated. As for 25 or 30 years, we can only guess.  My feeling is that there was a tendency then for the men to marry later, and we are looking at the male line.  We only need one or two like Robert W&L to really extend the years.

Whitparish I find very interesting.  It did go back to the early Sherborne times, and I must admit I saw it as part of the Estcourt disputes over Bapton, although it may not have been.  William C/K's position is curious.
I now also think he may have been Sir John's brother, as there does not seem to be anyone in Robert's family who matched.  He could have died about 1519 (the first Sir William died in 1507).  Robert apparently always lived in
Sherborne.  Could it have reverted to Robert's son Henry, after that 40 years, because William had no heirs?  (I see the Estcourt name there).

John of Cullompton left a chalice or something to Sherborne Abbey.  That suggests the Lyte COA connection at Lillington may have been with him, or more probably another marriage we are not aware of, rather than any
Rockborne connection with Lillington?

Am still looking at Brian's papers, particularly his Somerset wills in the 1500s. Have also updated my Précis of the Chronicles - now six pages.

Regards
Warwick


From: Sherrill Williams
Sent: Aug 31, 2003
Subject: Edmunds, how many?

I've been checking up on my Edmund references, and have discovered a contradiction to the list of Patrons/presenters at Kellaways, Wilts.
The list I recently posted showed:
> > 1348    Callewey (parish)  W. de Caillewey, patron - rector presented:
> > Richard Creym
> >     That was from a typewritten list, covering the years 1304-1936, in Wiltshire Record Office, Trowbridge.
> >
> >     Another reference:  "Wiltshire Institutions," by Thomas Phillips, says:
> > 1337    Capell de Kayleway - Patron: Edmundes de Kayleway - Priest: > Ricardi Creym.
> >     That would shorten the term of "W. de Caillewey" as patron.
> >
> >     Checking further my Edmund references, I have these:
> >
> > 1357    Edmund Cayleway (& others) had tenement in property of John Mautravers de Lychet & Agnes his wife - - in Dorset, Wilts & Gloucester [Dorset Feet of Fines, Edw. III - Rich. III].
> >
> > 1375    Devizes (Wilts).  Inq. P.M. on Geoffrey, s/o Edmund Gascelyn.
One of the jurors was Edmund Cailway. [Geoffrey Gascelyn held manors of Sheldon & Chippenham jointly with Elizabeth his wife (plus other properties).
> >
> > 1380    Capel Brokenborow, Capel Kayleway & Stokkebbes, Hereford:
>  Patron - Edmundes Caylleway.
> >
> > 1380    Cirencestre.  John Everdoun, parson of Everdoun, to Edmund Kaylewey, Joan his wife, and Robert de Cherleton, kt. - quit claim to manor of Tuderynton Kayleway [Calendar of Close Rolls].
> >
> > 1395-1419.  Edmund Kayleway presented to Cheldon for ordination [Exeter Episcopal Registry of Bishop Stafford]
> >
> > 1400    A license to celebrate divine service granted to Edmund Cayleway & Joan his wife in the chapel of The Blessed Mary & St. Giles within their manor of Chempton in Chawleigh (Devon).
> >
> >     Are these references to the same Edmund?  He was certainly active for a long time (of course, so am I - but times are a bit different!)
> >
> >     Sherrill


From: Warwick Kellaway
Sent: Sep 1, 2003
Subject: Edmunds, how many?

Hi Sherrill,
>
> I came to the conclusion a while ago that there were two Edmunds (see the original Chronicles).  The second probably our Edmund's uncle, presuming his father was John.
> The list of patrons of St Giles I have came from Mrs Hopkins, the owner of Kellaways, but is presumably the same list.
>
> You again have some more references I have not seen before, some very interesting:
>
> 1348 William fits the list of patrons.
> 1337 Edmundes could be an error, as Richard Creym does not seem to have become rector until 1346.  Otherwise the only suggestion I have is that there may have been some indecision after the death of John in 1336, and the elder Edmund was patron, with Creym as rector, both for a short period.
> (The list of patrons and rectors of course may not be complete.)
> 1357 Edmund I assume again to be the "uncle".  He has an interest in property, and is not necessarily at the Wiltshire manor.  However he does still have property in Gloucestershire.  (Note there is no reference to
> Devon at this time, which makes me ponder whether our Edmund might have married a Devon lady.)
> 1375 Edmund is presumably our man, becoming patron of St Giles the next year.
> 1380 Edmund again, but what is that reference to Hereford - Stokkebbes?
> Remember Sir William, priest and knight of Ledbury Herefordshire from 1387-1409.  (Hereford also is not too far from Gloucester.)
> 1380 Edmund appears at Cirencester.
> 1395-1419 Edmund has by now moved from Wiltshire to Chenstone manor, Chawleigh, Devon.  But what is that ordination?  Was he perhaps presenting others for ordination?  Possibly there was another Edmund, as the ordination process did take some years, but usually they were listed at the individual churches/abbeys.  (The successive religious orders of Tonsurati, Accoliti, Subdiaconi, Diaconi and Presbiteri  always intrigued me.)
> Seemingly very religious, Edmund and Joan built three chapels at Chenstone manor in 1400, and I could not imagine the same man would "present" himself over 24 years.  His wife Joan also could not have died before 1400 - although they would both have been ageing.  However he was recorded as patron of nearby Cheldon rectory from 1396-1411 - very much the same period.
>
> Incidentally I see Edmund and Thomas de Cailleweye, presumably his son, were in a trespass dispute with Margaret de Courtney in 1391 - possibly a preliminary to the loss of the Wiltshire manor.
> Edmund went to Devon, Thomas to Dorset, and Joanne Bingham?
> The shadow of Mokesbeare hovers over the whole story at this time, but there seems no definite reference to a connection, only some matching names.
>
> Regards
> Warwick


From: Bruce Callaway
Sent: Sep 1, 2003
Subject: Dorset/Somerset/Devon properties

The excerpt from the Bartlett Family Newsletter published by Donna on the CFA website led me to review their website www.bartlett.to/pend3.htm  as for some days I have been reviewing Sherrill's mail 26 Feb.2001.Why? I hear you ask. Well frankly, being unfamiliar with the geography of Dorset/Somerset/Devon, I have been lost in the recent discussion between Sherrill and Warwick as to who lived where?!
 
The Bartlett website is large, so let me quote from it. "The manor of BALDOFESTON Piddleton, partly owned by the Peverals until 1475, passed to the Kellaways before becoming owned by the Martins (Martyns). Sir John TREGONWELL, the renowned jurist lived at the manor of Athelhampton in Piddleton Dorset as Chief Commissioner for Dorset & Somerset (Dissolution of the monasteries). The Tregonwells were related by marriage to the Churchills, Kellaways and the Martyns, and were also Piddleton property owners. They to-gether with the FREKE family (Robert Freke was Auditor and Teller of the Exchequer) formed a cartel which received BATH ABBEY,MILTON ABBEY, CERNE ABBEY, HINTON ABBEY and many more properties in the dissolution".
 
Most of this with the exception of Sir John living at Athelhampton I knew. Though I guess everyone else knew the Athelhampton connection, I had to ask my program what was the relationship. I append the results. Please tell me if we (I and my machine) have it wrong! In summary: When Elizabeth's (d/o Sir John of Rockbourne) husband Robert Martyn died she inherited Athelhampton. When Sir John Tregonwell's wife (Elizabeth Bruce) died, he married Elizabeth Kayleway Martyn and occupied Athelhampton.
 
Dame Elizabth Kayleway Martyn Tregonwell was subsequently accused of being a witch![Somerset & Dorset Notes and Queries]. That aside the progeny of both original familes intermarried as shown.
 
Try as I might, I can find no COA for Sir John Tregonwell.Are they somewhere in all those windows that y'all photographed so well? I have more on Tregonwell, but will not confuse the issue until I can get some comments.
 
Bruce

Martin Family Tree     Tregonwell Family Tree


From: Sherrill Williams
Sent: Sep 1, 2003
Subject: Edmund

I checked the reference to Edmund that Warwick questioned.  The reference I gave came from my "index" to our records.  I found the item in Pat's 1999 notes (bottom of p. 7 in my copy). Pat, will you check this and see if I am interpreting it correctly?
>
Exeter Episcopal Register of Bishop Stafford, 1395-1419. "Edmund Kayleway presented to Cheldon for ordination John Kaylewaye - ordained 21 Sept 1398."
>
Does that mean that Edmund presented John Kaylewaye for ordination?  Also, was it Edmund who presented "John Kelwa at Tavistock, 20 Aug 1404" and "William Kelwe at Lananta, 9 Oct 1411" ??  Where is Lananta?


From: Sherrill Williams
Sent: Sep 1, 2003
Subject: From Sherborne to Lillington - Part 1

Good morning (too early here - 5 AM).  For several weeks now I have been shuffling these papers, trying to understand the implications of the various (and varying) C/K pedigrees; also, to understand the information supplied
in the lay subsidies, and other "official" documents we have collected.  I concluded a number of things.
>     In the pedigrees presented at the various visitations most agreed that there was an ancestor named Thomas C/K who married a daughter of Leweston - but they were somewhat uncertain how he fit in the family. There was
> disagreement on the names of his children (some even calling those same persons his brothers). Among those children/brothers are two distinctive names: Maurice (Morris) and Peter.  Peter we can probably account for:
> Peter at Clifton Maybank, Yetminster Hd, Dorset in 1524 & 1525 [lay subsidy] and at Mappowder in 1539 [muster roll].  After that, nil.  Maurice (Morris) does not appear in the records of this era.  A Maurice is listed on the
> protestation returns for Monksilver parish, Somerset, 1640/41, and he was buried in Monksilver about 1673.....too late to be Thomas's child/brother.
> The submitters to the visiting heralds were as confused as are we. There are some things about the lay subsidies that should be pointed out.  (1) a man could only be taxed in one category - that is, on Land, or Goods, or Wages.  He would be taxed on the one category of the highest value (which would give the higher return to the Crown).  Thus, because a man was taxed for "goods" it did not mean that he held no "land,"  just that his "goods" were of higher value than his "land." (2)  He could only be taxed in one place, usually the place of his principal residence.  If he were assessed in other places, he could present a certificate, obtained from the place he was to pay taxes, to the commissioners of the other places where he had taxable property to be exempted.  (3)  Goods were not explicitly defined, but some examples were given:  coin, plate, stock of merchandise, harvested (but not standing) corn, household stuff "and all other goods and chattells moveable."
>     One other thing we must consider is the "law of primogeniture" (the law of descent of land).  This is particularly relevant to the will of William K. of Sherborne, 1469.  Landed estates passed to the oldest son who was  considered the heir.  There was no need to even mention the "landed estates" in a will; it was a "given" that the land would descend to the oldest son & heir.  Frequently the land was not mentioned, unless a part was to be
> designated to another person.
The 1469 will of William K. of Sherborne makes no reference to the land he held around Sherborne, or in other places we know about.  Apparently he held extensive land - at Whiteparish, around Sherborne Hd., and the land
at Bristol and Yevell.  How he acquired the Bristol and Yevell land would be of interest (by inheritance or other means?).  We don't know how many children he had, but I suspect just one surviving son, William II.  He bequeathed to son William various missals and "treasures" of gold and silver, but no mention of land.  Were there other sons, he might have shared with them some of the "treasures," thus passing on some of the wealth.  There is no doubt that son William was his heir to the land.
>     Next William made bequests to his grandsons.  To grandson John he gave the land in Bristol and Yevell and a few "treasures."  To grandson William he gave "all my iron, and all the woad in my cellar at Shirborne."  It is not stated, but obviously grandson William is the oldest son and heir of his father, son William.  So, eventually all the landed estates would descend to grandson William, including "the cellar in Shirborne."  Thus we have the
> descent of the landed estate as follows:
> I    William K. of Sherborne (d. 1469)
> II   William K., the son
> III  William K, the grandson
>
>     In Part 2, we will attempt to trace the family (via the land) "down" from William of Sherborne (1469) and "up" from the information in Martin K's will (1575) and hope to discover where "the twain shall meet."
>     Stay tuned for Part 2.
> Sherrill


From: Pat Schnurr
Sent: Sep 2, 2003
Subject: Edmund

Yes -- Edmund presented John.  Could be that he also presented John Kelwe 1404 at Tavistock - does not say,  As regards Capel Caylleway -- from Wiltshire Institutions by Thomas Phillips - 1304 Patroness Johananes de Cayllewey - Priest
Edmundus de Tyderington = earliest date mentioned.  then 1337 - Patron Edmundus
Priest Ricardi Creym - next is 1380 - Capel Brokenborow, Capel Kayleway and Stokkebbes Hereford -  Patron Edmundus Caylleway - Johannes Wyttyngeslawe of Stokkebbee Rector (interchanged with Priest - must have been low church - HA).
Has to be two Edmunds here  because of time span.  Pat


From: Warwick Kellaway
Sent: Sep 2, 2003
Subject: Edmund

Thank you Pat.
 
I had not spotted the first Edmundus.  However if he was de Tyderington, it could mean that he came from the adjacent manor/village, which is 1/2 mile away.  Do not know what was there at the time, but initially one name for the area was Tuderinton/Kaylewent, and it held by the Giffards with two knight's fees.  Presumably two manors were built, and there was another family at the adjacent manor.  We have no knowledge of intermarriage, but it seems very likely.
That 1337 Edmund must have been an older Edmund, as I suggested perhaps an uncle, and presumably a temporary situation.
Not sure of the difference between Priest and Rector at the time, but later the Rector was the village priest/vicar.  Could have been that the Rector was allowed to marry, but I don't think so.  It was however about the time of the Lollards, who were eventually condemned as heretics.
 
Regards 
Warwick

From: Warwick Kellaway
Sent: Sep 2, 2003
Subject:  Dorset/Somerset/Devon Properties

Good morning Sherrill,
 
It is a reasonable hour here - 10am.  Occasionally I have to get up about 5 to fly to Wellington - it is awful!
 
Bruce, I also understand the problem over relativity of locations.  I had the same when preparing the Chronicles, and found maps indispensable - went as far as getting Ordnance Survey Maps.  By now I can virtually travel around in my mind, but still need to check occasionally.
It is really necessary to have maps available when you do not live there.
 
We do have a problem with Thomas and Mistress Leweston.  That is why so far I can only suggest there may have been another Thomas - probably father and son.
Pleased if we do have Peter.  My only concern would be his age.  By calculation he would be ageing by 1524, and around 90 by 1539.  Possibly the latter was his son?  Wonder who descended from him?
 
I think you have covered the Primogeniture thing very well, Sherrill, and given a good explanation for the apparently light nature of William of Sherborne's will, when he clearly had a lot of property.  
The Pedigrees do however give William two families.  I can only assume they were some years apart, but we should have Joan Barrett's family of Thomas (probably the Leweston man), Moris, and John, by my guess born from 1430 to say 1440.  With his second family, perhaps born from 1440 to 1450, William (Sir William), Peter and Thomas, by the lady Stantner.  There could be 20 years between the eldest and youngest.
The younger Thomas, placed with the second family, might have caused some of the Thomas confusion, but he could not have been born as late as 1476.  (I wonder whether these were the two, but in wrong family positions?)
 
I have found in later wills that not all the family would be mentioned (My own forebear - that man from the IOW - left his property to the two daughters of his first marriage, with the rest to the eldest son of the second - no mention of some half dozen others). 
Whether a will in 1469 could overrule Primogeniture I do not know, but William's second wife may have been making demands on the old man for her children.  Perhaps the older family, by then in their 30s, were themselves well settled, or out of favour.
 
I do think William's "original" Sherborne property passed to Thomas, thence to Robert, father of John and Martin of Lillington.  What may have been the ancient Dunes Weston property(?) at Stalbridge, passed through Thomas to his second son William, father of Thomases the elder and younger.  This could account for the basic family inheritance, as opposed to more recent acquisitions.
 
I suspect that there may have been some impedance with regard to the properties inherited from the Binghams and Barretts.  Possibly inherited later - for example if John, the presumed brother of William retained the Bingham property - passed to son John in 1467 - and his son had no descendants some years later - who would finally get it?  Also Joan Barrett's property seems to have been subject to some dispute in the 1400s.
 
By 1469, the later Sir William may have already been in control of some of those properties.  I have no doubt he was intelligent, and quite possibly as unscrupulous as his descendants.  He was in a strong position by 1484, and was knighted by Henry VII in 1501.  Perhaps he was too much for his country cousins, who simply did not argue with him? 
 
Certainly the Rockborne knights had control of most of the property inherited from William of Sherborne, but the elder family still retained property around Sherborne, Stalbridge, also Bapton, probably Whitparish, in Wiltshire.
 
Thank you for the Edmund reference.  I would suggest he was presenting John.  Wonder who John was - his son?  If so it would seem unlikely he would go back to the Wiltshire manor, or produce a family.  Too many Johns!!
 
Sorry do not know anything of Lananta.  From the Bishops Register I did have William Kelwa at Lanothull in 1408, William Kelwe going through the orders between 1411 and 1414, and at Lelant in 1411
 
Bruce, you have some interesting things there about Baldofeston and Athelhampton.  Presumably the former is in the village, the latter is some distance away to the east.  The family retained a presence in Piddletown for some 150-200 years afterwards, and I have never been sure whether it was solely relative to the Charminster/Piddlehinton family, who lived nearby (that map again), or there was something older.  The C/Klan were running around the area like rabbits. 
Still haven't nailed Piddlehinton, where the principal Dorset family lived in the later time.
 
Best wishes 
Warwick

From: Sherrill Williams
Sent: Sep 3, 2003
Subject: Joan Barrett - Part 2

Who married Joan Barrett?   Who IS Joan Barrett? The next parts coming are "radical"!  It will require erasing our brains of all pre-conceived notions, and having the aspirin bottle handy might also be a good idea.
         According to information available to us from various sources, Joan Barrett was married to "a" William C/K, and she was the mother of "Thomas C/K of Stalbridge," and perhaps other children.  "Thomas of Stalbridge is then shown to be the father of "William C/K of Stalbridge" who is the center piece of Martin's will (1575), being father of Thomas "the elder," William, Robert and Thomas "the younger."
         What do we know about "Thomas of Stalbridge"?  Nothing!  We have not one record of a Thomas who fits him.  If anyone has such a record (aside from pedigrees), now is the time to throw it into the mix.  That 40 year gap in the listing of the "freeholders of Whiteparish" is critical for us. Having those records would show us what years Thomas was the "freeholder." The list breaks at 1519 with William Keilway as freeholder, and picks up again in 1560 with John Keilway as freeholder.  There are possibly 3 generations of "freeholders" in that gap.  Thomas should be one of them. It is not possible to explain why Thomas is missing from the records. There are many other of the C/Ks recorded during that time.
         Actually, the only record we have of a Thomas who fits our needs is the Thomas K., age 30, one of the heirs of William Cammel (Thomas K, "son of his sister").  This Thomas was born c1474/76, depending on whether the age is calculated from William Cammel's death (1504) or the date of the Inq. P.M. (1506).  Right at this point it becomes very "sticky" and we must find a way to work through it.  But first, we need to assign dates and wives to our first 3 generations at Sherborne.
         Using 25 to 30 years per generation, and also using Warwick's estimated birth year of 1400, which is reasonable, for William (d. 1469) we have the following:
 I    William of Sherborne (1400-1469)
 II   William (the son) - b. c1425-1430
 III   William (the grandson) - b. c1450-1455
         Who were the wives?  I am at this point unable to suggest the wife of William I (d. 1469) - the one who would be the mother of William, the son.  However, I do believe he was also married to Joan, the widow of Roger Ledred.  I can find very little on Roger (de) Ledred, but what I do find suggests that Roger was born about 1400 and died before 1448.  He is said to be a son of Henry Ledred & Amy Downe.  The maiden name of his wife, Joan, is not known.  The daughter, Alice Ledred, who married William Strode, son
of Richard and Margaret Gerrard Strode, was born about 1420 and died 14 Sept 1499.  They are all said to have lived at Somerton, Somerset.  These dates make it most likely that Joan, widow Ledred, married our William I of Sherborne, sometime after the death of Roger Ledred about 1448.  It fits nowhere else.
         I have no candidate for the wife of "son" William (II).  Perhaps a closer scrutiny of the records would reveal a possible name.  For the present it is not important.
         "Grandson" William (III) is the one who married Joan "so-called" Barrett.  He is the one with the birth year that fits, if Thomas (b. c1474-76) is his son.  Thomas was co-heir of William Cammel, along with
his mother's sister, Katherine Alwyn, age 50 (thus b. c 1454/6 - a perfect generational fit).
         That concept raises the question - Who IS Joan Barrett?  It is also the reason I have been "hollering," why is there no quartering of the C/K COA with Barrett, while the Cammel quartering is quite evident?  We have landed right in the middle of the "sticky" point.  Study the foregoing, critique it and tweak it if you can.  Part 3 will deal with the "sticky."
     Sherrill


From: Bruce Callaway
Sent: Sep 3, 2003
Subject: Joan/Jane Barrett (who is she?)

Sherrill,
I believe that my infernal machine has solved your problem! The co-heirs to the Barrett Estate in Bapton were Joan and her brother John. There were two Joan/Jane Barretts. Descent is as attached which I believe also takes care of the three Williams. Please tell me if you think my machine is wrong and I will talk severely to it!
Bruce

Joan v Jane Barrett


From: Warwick Kellaway
Sent: Sep 3, 2003
Subject: Joan Barrett - Part 2

Sherrill, Bruce,

 Hey you two, my head is spinning now. Admittedly you have access to some important new documents, while I can only go back to the Pedigrees, but they cannot surely all be wrong.

 Certainly that Thomas, who may/may not have married Miss Leweston, is the problem, but the fact that he has not yet been found anywhere does not mean he did not exist - he may have been a very quiet fellow - reclusive even. We do have the 1476 Thomas, but do not know whose little boy he was. To inherit from a William Cammel, who died in 1504/6, suggests a very close connection, rather than the 1400 Cammel recorded elsewhere.  Did William II or III, or one of those two Thomases marry a lady with Cammel background?

 I would have to extend the dates for William II and William III, because William II was recorded as the son of the second wife - suggest 1440, rather than 1425-30.  More so, because, as Sir William, he lived on to 1507. Similarly William III, the brother of Sir John, was probably born between 1465-9.

 The Wiltshire Pedigrees (for Kellway of WhiteParish), are pretty clear with a line of succession from William and Joanna, daughter and heir of Henry Barrett of Whitparish, (including reference to his marriage to his second wife Miss Stanter - hence the Rockborne knights), through Thomas (of Stalbridge), Robert and John, to Henry's daughters Philip and Elizabeth. The only problem datewise seems to be the one generation gap at the Thomas who married Miss Leweston.  (All of this relates to what is presumed to be
the principal family, then living in Wiltshire)

 The Somerset Pedigrees (for Kelway of Stowford in Barwick), gives the same succession, (except that William's second wife and family are omitted), through Thomas and William of Stalbridge, finishing  with Thomas the younger and Elizabeth Joanes family, Richard, Andrew, Robert, Raffe, and Ursula.
(The family then living at Stowford). I had also been worried about the dates here, but the problem still looks to me to be around that Thomas who married Miss Leweston, and the Thomas who was born c 1476 - his son?

 The Devonshire and Cornwall Pedigrees both refer to William and Joanna Barrett as the parents of the Agnes who married Thomas Pomeroy, before 1478. For this to be the case, William and Joanna must have married somewhere around 1430.  (These C/K references were from the expansive Pomeroy family tree).

 Neither the Dorset, nor Hampshire, Pedigrees covered the C/K family to any extent. None of the Counties gave any clear succession for the Rockborne knights - only by implication - why?

 These Pedigrees were initially produced in the mid 1500s, although the latest information was around 1625.  There was a time difference from 1450 odd - maybe the same heralds visited all the counties - not sure about
that - but would they be so wrong?  Much of their information anyway related to the 1500s, and surely was accurate.

 I cannot really see how William of Sherborne could have married Joan Ledred, unless there was some mix-up with the Stanter lady, whom he could have married about 1440.  Grandson William III could not have married before about 1500, again because elder brother Sir John presumably was not born much before 1465, to die in 1547.  William Cammel of 1504/6 may also have been a later Cammel, than the earlier Barrett inheritor?

 There might have been another Joan Barrett around in 1500, but do we have a confirmed reference to a lady with that name anywhere near that time? Hutchins also put her back around 1400, while I had the reference to Henry's father John in 1413.  (Although there was no suggestion of his age given, but reference to Payne and Cammel property, son Henry and Joan, tends to suggest he may have died about then.  If John was about 60, his granddaughter could have been born around 1405.)

 The COA without the Barretts could perhaps be explained by the Barrett family being too far back, whereas 1476 Thomas's liaison would have been much closer to the time of the arms?

 Could the Whitparish 40 year gap be explained by a dispute - with the Estcourts?
The top is spinning, like my head.  Aspirins please.
 Best wishes
 Warwick


From: Warwick Kellaway
Sent: Sep 4, 2003
Subject: William of Stalbridge grandfather of Thomas

Sherrill,

 While we must beg to differ on the merits of the Pedigrees - and I do sincerely hope that you can find the evidence to settle it once and for all - until then we really have nothing definite as an alternative.  I had managed some time ago to rationalise them against the "known" information, to my satisfaction anyway, with the exception of that missing generation.

 Now you may have something.  I had not spotted that 1476 Thomas had a grandfather William (of Stalbridge).  The William of Stalbridge I had was later, the brother of Robert, uncle of Martin.

 If so, as you say, we could have descent from William of Sherborne, through his son Thomas (of Lewston fame) born maybe about 1425-30, your William 1 of Stalbridge born maybe around 1450-55, to 1476 Thomas, I am very happy. Thomas remains the father of Robert and William 2 of Stalbridge, the missing generation is found, and we have perhaps covered the odd references to a William, who was not Sir William, in the late 1400s.  I like it.  (And the Pedigrees did get it wrong)

 You could even fit in a Camell there somewhere, and a Ledred (William 1 could have married about 1475?)

 Incidentally, with regard to the Camells, the original man, forebear of Joanna Barrett was Robert Camell.  I checked the Cornwall Pedigrees again (sorry), and one I suggest is irrefutable is that of Pomeroy of Tregony.  There are three pages of highly detailed references, with dates, for most of the Pomeroys, from about 1086. Agnes is clearly stated as the daughter of John, granddaughter of William (or Thomas?) Kelloway and Joanna Barrett, herself the daughter of Anna, daughter of Robert Camell of Tittleford.  By juxtaposition Joanna would have been born about 1400.

 The brew is warming up in the summer weather.  (Our summer is coming - I hope)
 Warwick


From: Sherrill Williams
Sent: Sep 4, 2003
Subject: William of Stalbridge grandfather of Thomas

Will all this "brewing" we are doing produce Ale?  I hope so. I'm gonna need some - maybe a lot. I don't think aspirin will do the job.

Bruce, your Barrett chart is very interesting and shines some new light on the situation.  But, I am still lacking a Cammel girl who married a C/K and produced Thomas C/K, b. c1473.

     Warwick, I don't give all these visitation pedigrees one bit of credence.  The more I study them, the more exasperating they become. Our C/Ks giving the information knew about 3 generations.  Beyond that, the
people were just names that belonged to the family, but the info giver had no idea how they related to the family.  Obviously the heralds were not going back to the office and correcting these things, using information they should already have - or did they not have it?  It should not be strange, then, that our Foundation of Medieval Genealogy has a running series on making corrections to The Complete Peerage.  Followed by the huge error in the Lyte pedigree, I've lost the faith.
     The Lyte pedigree, Wiltshire Visit., 1623, shows this:  "Thomas Lyte de Lytes Carrye Ar borne 17 April: 1568  collector of this pedigree superstes 1628 (to which is attached a footnote).  The chart shows Thomas Lyte as son of Henricus Lyte & first wife, Agnes dau. & coheir of Kellway of Cullompton, married 1546; buried at Charlton 1564.  Well now, his mother died and was buried 4 years before he was born!  The footnote says: Thomas Lyte here makes a curious error in affiliating himself to his father's first wife.
 The dates that he gives show that his mother was Frances Tiptoft, and this is confirmed by Anthony a Wood (Athenae Oxonienses (1691), i, 533). Frances Tiptoft did not die until 1589, when Thomas Lyte was about 21 years old. Surely he knew who is own mother was.  So, who made the error?  Thomas Lyte who collected the info for this very large chart, or the person drawing the chart?  Who knows?  But it is a very large error which would have caused people to hang their branch on the wrong tree were it not pointed out by the editor.
     The result is that I am using "official" records in my attempt to reconstruct the C/K family.  That approach also has a problem.  In order to get the correct information from the record, one must first understand the purposes of the law which generates the record.  A real learning experience. Also, many records are private records, held by the family, but often deposited in unexpected places.  Unfortunately many of these manor records just decayed, and some remain in private hands unknown to the world. The manor is where so much is recorded.  It is all a daunting task.  I would also not be surprised to learn that the PRO has numerous records that have never been translated, transcribed and published in the catalogues that are so useful.
     There are the same problems with the descendancy of the land.  We have to know by what "rights" it is held.  If it is held for "term of lives" then at some point it just evaporates from the family, returning to the original holder.  The "freeholder" system was different.  And in referring to the gap in the freeholder records of Whiteparish, I did not intend to imply that those records in the gap were actually "missing" - just that the historians only checked them for their purposes, sporadically checking the later ones. But from the copies we have, the source of the records is uncertain.  A closer examination of the footnotes or bibliography of the book might have revealed the source.  But now, the book is "over there" and I am "over here."  The sad result of hurried research.
     Back to the Cammel problem.  When I count the generations "down" from William of Sherborne (d. 1469) and "up" from what we know of those mentioned in Martin's will (1575), I come to the conclusion that the "William of Stalbridge" mentioned as Martin's grandfather in his will, is the son of Thomas C/K, the coheir of William Cammel.  When we consider the property (real estate) held by William Cammel at his death, it becomes interesting. His properties were described thus: "The manor and advowson of Westperley, as of his manor of Cranborne, and common of pasture in:
             Fiffylford                       Bell
             Sturmynster                     Newton Castell
             Okeford Fitzpaine           Child Okeford
             Stour Payne                     Est bagbere
             Westbagbere                   Colbere
     Therefore it is of interest that the only William C/K listed on the Dorset lay subsidy of 1525 was paying taxes on goods in the manor of Cranborne (subheading: Burgus de Cranborne).  In 1539, William Kaylewey (Able Billman) was on the muster roll of Bagbere tithing, in Sturminster Newton, Cranborne Hd.  He was required to provide a bow and 1/2 sheaf of arrows.  William Kelway was taxed for goods at Bagbere, Cranborne Hd in 1545.  So, this man's greatest assets were at Cranborne.
Also on the 1539 muster roll was another William Keylewey at Thornhull in Stalbridge.  He was also taxed for goods there in 1543, 1544 & 1545. I thought this one could be the brother of Robert and the 2 Thomases, who was mentioned in Martin's will.
     More to come shortly.  We still must work out the Cammel problem.
Sherrill

PS.  I forgot to say, Warwick, that I still think that the 1st William of Sherborne (d 1469) had as a second, or later wife, Joan, the widow Ledred.


From: Sherrill Williams
Sent: Sep 5, 2003
Subject: Edmund (more)

Cary contributed this:

Wiltshire Inquisitions Post Mortem:

ROGER CAYLEWEY, EDMUND CAYLEWEY, and NICHOLAS atte BERNE. Inquisition taken before Thomas de Seymour, the King's escheator in co. Wilts, at Malmesbury, 10th June, 21 Edward III [1347], by the oath of Roger le War, Richard Bayllemond, Robert Chynerdene, William Bent, Wibert de Cherleton, John de Hanekynton, Geoffrey le Frye, Thomas Blanchard, Henry atte Halle, John atte Hurne, Nicholas Roylly, and Thomas Bubbe, who say that It would be no damage to the King or any other to allow Roger Caylewey, Edmund Caylewey, and Nicholas atte Berne, chaplain, to retain one messuage and 2 virgates of land in la Lee next Malmesbury, which they have acquired for the lifetime of Margaret Caylewey from the Abbot of Malmesbury without the King's licence; the premises to revert on the death of Margaret to the said Abbot.  They are held of the Abbot by the service of 17s. a year for all services, and are worth 20s. a year.  [Chan. Inq. P.M., Ser. I, 21 Edw
III, 2nd Nos., No. 46.  New reference, Chan. Inq. a.q.d, File 284, No. 14] WHO IS MARGARET?
1374.  Edmund Cayllewey was on the jury for the inquisition p.m. of Thomas, son of Sir Robert de Bradeston, Chivaler - taken at Chippenham, 1 June 1374.
1375.  Edmund Cailway was on the jury for the inquisition p.m. of Geoffrey, son of Edmund Gascelyn - taken at Devyses on 6 April 1375.


From: Warwick Kellaway
Sent: Sep 5, 2003
Subject: Response to Warwick Re: Part 3 - and Part 4. Pomeroy

Sherrill

I think the problem lay in the vineyard.
The Margaret referred to with Edmund I in 1347, I could only assume was the sister or mother - probably sister.  Later Edmund II had property problems with Margaret de Courtney in 1391, and I wondered if it could have been the same lady, even 44 years later.  Might the Malmesbury property have been a dowry for a 20 year old, who married a Courtney?  Could explain why they left Wiltshire.

I think I see that there was not a reference to 1476 Thomas's father being a William.  Never mind, but it could still be a possibility?
The Cornish Pedigrees match the Devon version.  I also see the reference to the entries we are looking at having been recited in an Inq. taken on the death of Katherine Huddersfield, formerly the wife of Sir Saintclere Pomeroy in 7 Hen. VIII (1514).  Her marriage would have been c 1460, so events at that time should have been relatively fresh for the family.
I agree that there are some strange dates and liaisons suggested around Henry de la Pomeroy, his marriage to Anna Camell of Tittleford, and her subsequent claimed marriage to William Barrett of Whitparish.
I do think however that they would probably be correct in the later references.  Agnes being the daughter of John Kelloway, who was said to be the daughter of William K and Joanna Barrett.  John had only died about 1478, 36 years before 1514, and William in 1469, probably after Katherine's marriage.
This is of course the Pomeroy Pedigree, and I would therefore suspect any errors to be in the Barrett field.  We are now looking at the time around 1400, which is over 100 years before 1514.  Henry de la Pomeroy's father Edward is actually the same vintage as the William Barrett quoted, both presumably born c 1380, and it would seem to be impossible for his son to marry Anna Camell, widow of Henry Barrett as suggested.  Possibly Henry and William Barrett were brothers, but could Anna have been born about 1380, and marry Henry de la Pomeroy when she was about 50, he about 25?  It could happen to secure property, and there were evidently no children, but I do not think so. Information from other County Pedigrees, for our family, gives Joanna's father as Henry Barrett, her grandfather John.  A major discrepancy.
At this stage I cannot see an obvious answer.  My feeling is that the Camell/Barrett connection might have come in somehow sideways, through perhaps an uncle with no descendants, but a generation earlier than suggested from the Pomeroy Tree.  The Pomeroys then later got Henrys and Williams mixed up. (Camell research would be nice.)
The Pomeroys were not absolutely sure whether John K's father was William or Thomas, although, by deduction, he must have been born c 1400.  They may have been less certain about the names of Joanna's family, and could well have got it wrong.
Regards
Warwick

Response from Bruce Callaway, Tuesday, Sept 9, 2003:

Nice thought Warwick, but I do not think so. The de Courtney family are well documented (Hugh de Courtney being the Earl of Devon). They were linked to the Grenvilles and the Beaumonts whom, while featuring on the periphery of our K/C's because of property (conjoint, sold or pilfered) show no signs of being inter-married with our lot at this stage. I append an abbreviated tree for both families merely to sort out dear Margaret.
Bruce

Margaret de Courtney


From: Sherrill Williams
Sent: Sep 5, 2003
Subject: Response to Warwick Re: Part 3 - and Part 4. Pomeroy

It is good to hear from Bill, and that he did not fall over on his keyboard and hit the "delete" key, as editor Ben Callaway is fond of saying. I knew, if we talked about Bill, he would peek out from behind the curtain.
Do you think he stayed in the vineyard too long?  Here we are just brewing Ale.
    Warwick, Martin, in his will, said that his father, Robert, and Robert's brothers, William and the 2 Thomases were sons of "William of Stalbridge."
I don't know for sure how our Thomas (b 1476) may fit in.  He may be Martin's great-grandfather.  Got to work on the numbers a bit more.  I am also not sure about wife, d/o of Leweston.  I need to study my Leweston data for dates.  I do know that the John Leweston buried in St. Katherine's chapel had no heirs.  He married the widow Fitzjames, and gave the Leweston manor to her Fitzjames son by her former marriage.  I have a record of this which has dates, I believe.
Part 4.    The Pomeroy pedigree.
    For the benefit of those who don't have copies of the Pomeroy pedigree, I am going to run the direct line for the dates provided.  Much of this pedigree is referenced to events which are recorded records.  My copy is from  The Visitations of the County of Devon, and is probably similar to the Cornwall version.  I am beginning at the point where it is referenced (1) - footnote.  This footnote says:  "The descent thus noted is recited in an Inq. taken on the death of Katherine Huddesfield, who was widow of Sir Seintclere Pomeroy, 7 Hen. VIII, No. 14."  We have copies of Katherine Huddesfield's Inq. p.m. - and if it will EVER stop raining, I will take the copies to the deck and try to glean something from them.  We are currently under a FLOOD WATCH, tho' a flood will not bother us since we live on top of a small mountain, well above the flood plain.  It does mean it will be another cloudy, foggy day.  Staying awake will be my problem.
I    Sir Henry de la Pomeroy (1) - bapt. Tregony, Cornwall 23 April 1265, sixteen years old [baptized at age 16? - thus b. c1249?]; married 1 June 1281, Amicia, d/o Sir Geoffrey de Camville.  [Also states that he proved his age as 22 in 1287 (b.c1265).  When was this guy born??
II    Sir Henry de la Pomeroy (1) - age 14 in 1305 (b. c1291); d. 22 Oct 1367; md. (1) Johanna, d/o John, Lord Mules; (2) Elizabeth, d/o John de Powderham (she was living 1359).
III    Thomas de la Pomeroy (1) - youngest of 5 sons by Johanna Mules; b. b ; d. 1426; md. Unknown.
IV    Edward de la Pomeroy (1) - d. 3 May 1446; md. Margaret, d/o John Bevile (she died 10 Sept 1461)
    Edward died seized of Bery Pomeroy, Stokeley Pomeroy, 1/2 of manor of Harberton, 1/3 of manor of Brixton by virtue of entail.
V    Henry de la Pomeroy (1) - age 30 in 1445 (thus b. c1416); d. 17 July 1481; md. (1) Alice, d/o John Raleigh of Fardell, Devon (no dates); md. (2) before 20 Sept 1478, Anna (1), d/o Robert Cammel of Tittleford (sic), Dorset, widow of Henry Barrett of Whiteparish, Wilts.  Anna died before her 2nd husband, Henry de la Pomeroy (who died in 1481).  Henry had 3 sons by Alice Raleigh; no children by Anna Cammel Barrett.
A side lineage is inserted at this point - the daughter of Anna Cammel & Henry Barrett - A.  Johanna (1) - md. William Kelloway of Sherborne, Dorset; they had:
1.  John Kelloway (1) -   b. & d. and wife not stated. a.  Agnes Kelloway (1) - md. Thomas Pomeroy (1) - he d.
29 Dec 1493 [see ahead].  Her father, John Kelloway settled Cheriton Fitzpaine on them 20 Sept 1478.  WHAT EVENT TOOK PLACE ON SEPT 20, 1478???
[Back to Pomeroy lineage};
VI    Sons of Henry de la Pomeroy & Alice Raleigh: A.  Sir Seintclere Pomeroy, Kt.(1)  (1st son) - d. 31 May 1471; md. Katherine, d/o Sir Philip Courtenay, Kt. of Powderham; she was widow of Thomas Rogers; she md. (3) Sir William Huddesfield.  Katherine died 12 Jan. 1515 at Shillingford.  Seintclere Pomeroy had NO children. B.  Sir Richard Pomeroy (1) (2nd son) - heir to his brother, Seintclere.  Richard was age 30 and more at Seintclere's death (thus b. c1441);  d. 24 May 1496 (Will PCC Horne 1); md. Elizabeth, d/o Richard Densell of Were, and widow of Martin Fortesque of Filleigh.  Elizabeth died 20 Mary 1507/8. C.  Thomas Pomeroy (1) (3rd son) - d. 29 Dec 1493; md. Agnes, d/o John Kelloway. D.  John Pomeroy - living 1496 E.  Agnes Pomeroy - living 1496 F.  Elizabeth Pomeroy - md. Humphrey Courtenay
    Referring back to the C/K insert in this Pomeroy pedigree........What if something is stated WRONG?  What if Anna was d/o Henry Barrett and "widow" of Robert Cammel?  Then her daughter would be Johanna CAMMEL who married William Kelloway!  We would then have the "sister of William Cammel" whose son was Thomas C/K, thus another grandson of William I of Sherborne (d. 1469), and born after William I died.  DREAM ON - but it is an intriguing thought!  We just need to know more about the CAMMELS....whose COA we quarter with while ignoring the Barrett COA.  That was just a passing thought I had while typing this.  The point is to study the dates.  It now appears to me, from this pedigree, that Johanna [Barrett] married Son William, s/o  William (d. 1469), thus being mother of Grandson William and Grandson John.
    I have taken a peek at Katherine Huddesfield's Inq.p.m. and notice that "Cheriton Fitzpaine" is mentioned several times, but I don't know the context.   What do we know about that place?  Whose property was it?
    We must keep plugging away at it.  I think we are making progress. It is the "generations" that have had us confused.


From: Sherrill Williams
Sent: Sep 8, 2003
Subject: Sherborne to Lillington project

  In going through some files I came across some records that may be of interest, and helpful, regarding our Sherborne to Lillington project. These provide dates for our C/Ks (but nothing on Thomas), and some sidelights on some of the associated families.  They may help our perspective.  I am working here with "living black & white" so cannot highlight my comments in Color.  My comments will appear in [brackets].

 1364.  On July 10th 1364, a commission of oyer & terminer was directed to hear and judge of a complaint by John (BARRET), Bishop of Bath and Wells, the King's Treasurer, that "whereas the King took him, (who is daily occupied with the direction of affairs affecting the state and realm) and his men, lands, and rents, under his special protection [because a number of men, named] carried away his goodes, trod down & consumed with cattle his crops and grass, and assualted his men and servants.  (Medieval Sherborne, p. 187).

 1405/6.  Sherborne Hd. Court rolls for June 22, 1405/6 -  Walter Glover, or Walter the Glover [was he not Wm. K's "servant'?] is at law three handed with William Fauntleroy ((2), because for the last three years they have unjustly detained fomr him three buck skins, value 4s.

 (footnote 2)  Possibly John Fauntleroy or Faunleroy of Fontleroy Marsh, esq., who died 1439, father of Sir John Fauntleroy of March Court, who gave oak-trees from Stockgaylard, about the year 1437, towards the building of the present Sherborne Almshouse.  Sir John died in 1444, and he and his wife Joan, sister to Robert Rempstone of Godlingstone, were both buried in Sherborne Abbey (Fauntleroy Pedigree compiled by R. G. Bartolet).

 [Same date] -  the Seals of the five co-founders of the Almshouse are still on the Foundation Deed - dated 10 January 1437/8 -- the Bishop's, Sir Humphrey Stafford's, Margaret Gough's, Sir John Fauntleroy's & John Barrett's.

 [Same date] -  John Baret, gent (6)  dwelling in Sherburne in a street cauled Lodburne (7) gave v li. (to the building of the Almshouse).

 (footnote 6 -  The Barets first appear in Dorset c1280; a few years later they are part owners of a Knight's fee in Bere Hacket (Dorset Field Club, xxii, p. 131) )
 (footnote 7) -  Lodburne  - Half Moon Street, or, possibly South Street [Medieval Sherborne, pp. 224f.]

 1439.  Manor of Lillington, Dorset [we have talked of this before, so just a brief].  Henry Winterhey confirmed to Margery, relict of William Winterhey, his uncle, her dower of all the lands and tenements of the said William in Yetminster called Wynterheigh, which had been assigned to her by the feoffees of the said William; wits. were John Fauntleroy, John Baret, Thomas Dounton, William Mannyng, John Nywman of Lillington "and others."
     [That was followed by]:  Margery, late wife of William Wynterheygh, daughter and heiress of Walter Lillyngton, John Fauntleroy, John Newman of Lillyngton, jur., John Houchins of the same, sen. and William Mannyng, reciting that they have received by the grant of John Baret and John Horder, for the life of the said Margery and Agnes, her sister, the manor of Lillington with the advowson of the church there, etc. - now grant the same to John Baret and John Horder, their heirs, etc. (except three houses of the capital messuage of the  manor), etc.......(1429).  (S & DN&Q, V. XI, p. 253]

 c1437.  Our old friend, John Barret, co-founder of the Almshouse, JOHN KEYLEWAY, one of the trustees of the 1419 Almshouse, Richard Rochell, the faithful accountant, and John Spadard, another of the Almshouse Brethren, are mentioned by name as having been summoned to attend the inquiry (Bishop Nevill's).  [Medieval Sherborne, p. 264.]

 1437/8.  [Discussing the Foundation Deed (of the Almshouse) which laid out the rules for the inmates "For their Grace at meals....to pray to John Baptist and seynt John Evanglist, and "for the state and soules above wrytyn and specified."]: "The state and soules above wrytn" refers to the good estate of the Foundation and Benefactors then living, and to the soules of the Benefactors who have died.  Among the former were the King, the five principal Founders, and 'WILLIAM KAYLEWAY.......the whiche hath be most special laborer to gete the saide letters patentes of our Sovereighn lord the King, and al so of makyng of this present fundacion.'  (2) (footnote 2) - How WILLIAM KAYLEWEY laboured to get these documents is shown in Richard Rochell's 1437/8 interim account [riding to Humphrey Stafford's at Hoke, and to Margaret Gough;s, etx.] [Medieval Sherborne, p. 264.]

 1443/4.  As early as 1443/4 a "Fraternity of the House" existed, undoubtedly a religious Guild......And in the reading of their Account for 1446-7.......soon after the chapel had been consecrated, Richard Rochelle and JOHN KEYLEWAY, speak of themselves as "Masters of the Brothers and Sisters of the Guild of the Almshouse, Shirborne."  The existence of this Guild, and its inclusion of members, both men and women, living often at a considerable distance from Sherborne, has perhaps not hitherto....................... [Medieval Sherborne, p. 244.]

 1446/7.  At Westminster in the octave of St. John Baptist between JOHN KAYLEWAY, WILLIAM KAYLEWAY, and Andrew Edward querents; and John Davy and Joan his wife deforciants for six messuages, thirty acres of land, eight acres of meadow, and twenty acres of pasture in YEVELL, Oldesok, Kyngeston, Astyngton, and Modeford Terry.  John Davy and Joan acknowledged the right of JOHN KAYLEWAY and quit claimed for themselves and the heirs of Joan, and besides they warranted against Edmund abbot of Westminster and his successors; for this JOHN KAYLEWAY gave them one hundred marcs of silver.
[Feet of Fines for the County of Somerset, Hen. IV to Hen. VI, by Emanuel Green, F.S.A., p. 109]
[NOTE:  Here is mentioned the Yevell land which was given by William K. (1469) to his grandson, John K.  Does everyone understand the "FINE" procedure?  This same source, on p. 204, contains the instrument involving John & William K. with Joan, the widow Ledred, 1457/8 - which we have recently discussed.]

1497.  Dorset Rebels in 1497.  [This is a discussion of Perkin Warbeck's rebellion, and especially identifying which were Warbeck's supporters, and which supported the Royalists.  Purbeck's supporters received fines.] - WILLIAM KELWAY, of Newland, in Sherborne, was fined #10.  It is stated that "the principal local families such as the Horseys, Strangways, Binghams, Willoughbies, Trenchards, Martins of Atelhampton, De la Lyndes, Mortons, Tubervilles, and Rogers of Bryanston, were for the King.  [S & D N & Q, V. viii, p. 103.]

1440.   Richard Strod'e Settlement, 1440.  On the back of the 9th, 10th and 11th slips which form part of the rent-roll of Richard Strode, are written the rough drafts of three documents relating to property of his in Somerset, which, at least in this form, remained unexecuted, the reverse and blank sides of the parchment being used for keeping his accounts.  They are: - 1.  A grant from Richard Strode and JOHN KAYLEWAY to John Frampton of Dorchester, and John Frampton, junior, of the lands in Mellellsowey (Middlezoy) and Weston (Zoyland), Somerset, which they had by grant of John Tretheke and John Brent, to be witnessed by Humphrey Stafford, Knt., William Stafford, and Nicholas Latymer at Melcombe Bingham, Dorset, in June, 18
Hen. VI (1440). 2.  A Conveyance of the premises by the two Framptons to Richard Strode and Margaret, his wife, and the heirs of their bodies lawfully begotten and in default of these to the right heirs of Richard Strode for ever.  Same witnesses.  Same date. 3.  A letter of Attorney from the two Framptons to Richard Smyth, to put Strode and his wife in possession of the premises.  Dated at Middlesowey, 8th July, 18 Hen. VI.
         This is a simple form of conveyance by feoffment followed by livery of seisin to settle the premises on Strode and his wife and children.  She was Margaret, relict of Walter Chartmarle, and was the second wife of Richard Strode, of Parnham.  She died s.p. In regard to John Tretheke and John Brent, mentioned in the first document, Mr. Weaver has kindly sent me a note from Collinson, III, 435, that Joah, daughter of John Brent, of Cossington, Somerset, married first
John Horsey, esq., and secondly, Thomas Tretheke, of Tretheke, Cornwall. Dorset Editor [S & D N & Q, V X, p. 169/70].

1523/4.  Sherborne All Hallows Churchwardens Accounts - Richard Adams Account: - Itm.  Recevd of MASTER ROBERT KELWEY (4) for hys granfaders be quest vjs. viijd. (footnote 4) - Robert Kelway.  Is this Robert Kelway "of Sherborne" son of Thomas Kelway "of Sherborne" (aged 30, 22 Henry vij), and grandson of William Kelway "of Sherborne"?  The last named held lands in Sherborne 9, 10 Ed. IV (see Hutchins, iv. 194).
[NOTE:  Just remember that Martin, in his 1575 will, says that his father, Robert, was son of "William of Stalbridge."]       [S & D N & Q, Vol. ?, p.311.]

1525/6.  Sherborne All Hallows Church Wardens Accounts - Robert Dewdney, Churchwarden - Itm  recevyd off the be quest of Master Lewston (2)  iijs. iiijd. - Itm recevyd off the be quest of MASTER WYLLYAM KELWEY (3) for the gyft off the gentylwoman yt departid in Newlond  vjs. viijd. (footnote 2) - Master Lewston = Edward Lewston of Lewston, Long Burton, died 14 Henry viij (1523), and seems to have been the person indicated here. His son John was the last of the old family, the Manor, on his death in 1584, passing by his gift to his wife's son, Sir John Fitzjames of Redlinch. (footnote 3) - Wylliam Kelway "of Sherborne" probably, who married Joan, daughter and heir of Henry Barrett of Whiteparish (Hutchins, iv. 194). [S & D N & Q, Vol 23, pp 331f.]

1539-45.  [This is a rather long dissertation on the HORSEY family, which is of interest due to the numerous involvements, over time, of the C/Ks and their related and associated families, with the Horseys.] "On Jan. 4, 1539-40, Sir John Horsey (3) obtained by Indenture from the Court of Augmentations,  a lease of all the prebend of Sherborne for 21 years, expiring in 1560-1 (3).  If the word "all" meant to be understood literally, then Sir John Horsey was in possession iof both the Rector's and Vicar's share of the Sherborne prebend. (footnote 3)  There were three successive Sir John Horsey's who farmed the Sherborne prebend in turn -  1. the lay impropriator, who died in December 1546;  2.  his son, who died in January 1564-5;  3.  his grandson. who died July, 1589;  all of them were buried in the North Transept, or "Horsey Ilde," of the abbey church.  The first Sir John reserved the transept to his own use when he sold the abbey church to the parishioners, intending no doubt to place the family vault there.  In 1547-8, according to the Churchwardens' Account for that year, the parishioners bought the North Transept for #8; and later, the Horsey monument was removed to the adjoining so-called Wickham chapel.

     On October 29, 1545, Sir John was granted an extension of the lease for another 20 years, to take effect from the date of the expiry of the former one - i.e., giving him possession of it until 1580-1.
     By his will, dated December 20, 1546, he left his term of years in the tithes of North Wootton, Whitfield, Burton Lillington and Holnest, parcel of the prebend of Sherborne, to his cousin, JOHN LEWESTON, and his assigns, out of which he was to pay #9 per annum to his son andheir, the second Sir John Horsey.
     This second Sir John, on his father's death, that year, thus came in for the 34 years remainder of the 1545 lease less the portion of the prebend granted to John Leweston.  He was knighted in 1547, and died in 1564-5, leaving his lease of the prebend another 16 years to run.......etc. [Medieval Sherborne, pp. 319, 320.]

1552.  Dorset Recoveries (Edw. VI's Reign) Edward Fauntlerey &ct.  v.  ROBERT KAYLEWAY & Johan his wife -  Manor of Netherlyllyngton & lands there in Dylford, Blokelonds &ct. [From Introduction:  The intricate method of conveying a real estate, by means of a judgment obtained in a fictitious law suit, known as 'Common Recovery' is said tohave originated in a practice used by Religious Houses to acquire land in defiance of the Statute of Mortmain in Edward I's reigh, but it did not come into general use til the time of Edward IV.  ---- As to our reference above, it shows that Robert Kayleway  & wife Johan conveyed the property to Edward Fauntleroy .....rather a ridiculous transaction, but that is what they did!]

1592.  [There was in 1592 contention with the Dean & Chapter of Sherborne & the lessee, John Fitzjames (1). (footnote 1).  John Fitzjames was the son of Alfred Fitzjames and Jane Culpepper, his wife.  After her first husband's death, she married John Leweston, Esq., who died in 1584, the last of the Lewestons of Leweston Manor near Sherborne.  John Leweston disinherited his own daughter, and left his property in Leweston to his second wife's son - his stepson - John Fitzjames, Ralegh's contemporary.  The S. Mary's Churchwardens' Accounts for 1585-6, mentions that S. Catherines chapel in the parish church, had been assigned, for 10s. to John Fitzjames and to his heirs for ever, for seat and burial.  And, in the Book of Sherborne Church Orders, it is stated that on Jan 18, 1600-01, "the seate that was sometime Mr. Leweston's and also the seat nexte it downward, should not at anytime be solde to any partie but should be reserved and kept for Sir Walter Rawleigh and his Ladye." [Medieval Sherborne, p. 371.]

 So, there is a little flesh for our Sherborne family and associates.  This really points out the importance of the various Sherborne church and almshouse accounts.  Wouldn't we like to see what some of the other accounts have to say.  The accounts are (at least, mostly) at Dorset Record Office in Dorchester.  They should certainly be microfilmed or microfiched - or some "scholar" should transcribe and publish them.
Sherrill


From: Sherrill Williams
Sent: Sep 8, 2003
Subject: Off Agnes onto Dorothy

Bruce, you are right about Robert (W & L) and Cecily Bulstrode Unton.  You are also correct on Dorothy C/K Buller Lyte. The following may be of interest to you: From: Somerset & Dorset Notes & Queries, Vol. 31, p. 281:  SOMERSET ENROLLED DEEDS (97) Conveyance, 14 Apr. 1558 by Jn. Lyte of Lytes Cary (Charlton Mackrell), esq., to Jn. Master of Chilthorne Domer, husb., for #10 of an annual rent of 6s. on lands held by Master in Chilthorne Dormer, which rent was sometime the inheritance of WM. KELEWAY, Knt.  Enrolled at the full sessions at Bridgwater before Jn. Welshe, Thos. Phillips, Jn. Mawdley, esq., J. P.s and Jn. Dyer, 26 Sept 1558.
   Thought that might interest you.  I checked out many of the Agnes references and responded to a few who had email connections. Some had impossible dates for Agnes (of John of Cullompton) and I questioned the Ottery bplace for John (of Cullompton). I had a response from who said his data came from the LDS data website. So, they are all copying each other. I have not responded to the guy yet, but plan to and try to find out where he is located. I tried another one, but the email came back = address was not current.
   On one of my Google searches sometime back I came across a lady's website (she was from the middle part of Tennessee) who had Elias C/K as an ancestor. I intended to get in touch with her, but was busy - I think getting ready to go to England - and did not follow up.
   A short time ago I tried a Google search on Barrett and variations, Barett, Baret, Barret with practically no results - except what we know. Did that family "die out"? Also tried Cammel and var. sp. with also no results. The Cammel COA I located was for a person from Queen Camel, Somerset. I have a few resources here at home to check on for that.  And we do have an early will of a Thomas C/K of Queen Camel.
   Sometime today I am going to post some records I have dug out relative to our "Sherborne to Lillington" project. They may give enlightenment in sorting through the generations.
   Sherrill
Bruce Callaway wrote:
The 700 odd references to the two Agneses is proving a bit of a problem. I believe that Warwick has got it right, but because both were so well recorded, everyone in (mainly America) is claiming one or the other as an ancestor! It will probably devolve down to the DRAKES and the POMEROYS. The Drakes favour their Agnes having as her Daddy John K/C born RILL, Devon, although some claim that John was born at Otterton, Devon. The Pomeroys on the other hand are fairly certain that their Agnes and father John hailed from Cheriton Fitzpaine, and go further in saying that John's parents were William K/C who married Johanna Barrett.
Along the way however, I have fairly compelling evidence that Sir John of Rockbourne's daughter Dorothy married twice. 1. to John Buller who died 15th Jan. 1529 after only two years of marriage to Dorothy. Dorothy subsequently married William LYTE of Lillesdon Somerset, and they had a daughter Gertrude Lyte.
Another bit for to-days 'trivia' of which I am fairly certain concerns our Robert W&L. Warwick has him as marrying Cecily UPTON. I now believe that she was originally a Cicely BULSTRODE born circa 1512 at Hedgerley who married Alexander UNTON and had recorded children. Unton died and then she married our Robert W&L (See Chrisman pedigree).
For those unfamiliar with the GOOGLE website which I sent, it is active. In other words 'click' on anything and it will respond. (Just in case anyone wants to check on my precis of the 700 odd references!)
Bruce


From: Sherrill Williams
Sent: Sep 12, 2003
Subject: William of Stalbridge plus The Courtenays

Morning,
I think we are tangled up with our generations again.  I have just re-read Martin's will for about the 50th time, and he clearly indicates that his father, Robert, is son of "William of Stalbridge."  Martin clearly says:
"I doe give and bequeath unto Willyam Kaylewaye, sonne of Willyam Kailewaye late of Stalbridge deceased fortie poundes........."
"I doe give and bequeath unto Thomas Kaylewaye Thelder of Stalbridge tenne poundes......"
"I doe give and bequeath unto Robert Kailewaye BROTHER unto the foresaide Willyam Kaylewaye and Thomas Kaylewaye Twentie nobles......."
"I doe give and bequeath unto Thomas Kailewaye the younger sonne unto Willyam Kaileway deceased twentie nobles......."
The difference between the bequests above is the period of time in which the bequests were to be paid.  Martin directed that payments be made to William, Thomas Thelder and Thomas the younger within specified periods of time "after my death."  No instructions were given for paying ROBERT'S monetary bequest. That was all legal nicety and assured that the heirs of ROBERT [Martin's father] would be included in the payouts, and would have no reason to challenge the will.  Robert was, of course, dead (c1558).  Martin's brother, John of Bapton, was also dead.  Perhaps John's son, Henry, already had a reputation of being irresponsible. I certainly feel that Martin knew who his grandfather was [William C/K "of Stalbridge"], he having lived at Lillington with his father, Robert. John remained at Bapton, associated with other family members, but quite likely was unaware or unsure of his ancestry when he had his session with the heralds.  In other words, he got it mixed up.
I am not certain who married Joan Barrett because we cannot assign dates to her.  It is said that she was daughter of Henry Barrett; so if Henry was son of the John Barrett (one of the Founders of the Almshouse) that makes John Barrett possibly contemporary with William C/K (d. 1469).  But, due to our lack of information on the Barrett lineage, I am unable to assess this situation. as to dates.  But, it seems to be clear that one of our Williams  married the "sister of William Cammel."
Let us once again consider the possible lineage (and see if the numbers will work):
I    William K. (c1400 - 1469); md. (1) [uncertain]; (2) possibly Joan, wid. of Roger Ledred A.  William (the son & heir) - b. c1425-30; md. (?)  [could his wife be Joan Barrett?]
1.  William (the grandson & heir) - b. c1450-55;  md. "sister of William Cammel."
a.  Thomas C/K - b. c1476
(1)  William "of Stalbridge" - b. c1500+
(a)  William
(b)  Thomas "the elder"
(c)  Robert - md. Joan Marshall
 i.  John of Bapton
ii. Martin  (d. 1575) at Lillington
(d)  Thomas "the younger"
2,  John (the other grandson); received land at Yevell & Bristol from grandfather William (d. 1469).
Now, we don't know for certain the order of the births of Martin's father and uncles.  The above list is in the order he gave when making the monetary bequests.  When dealing with the land, he named them in this order:
1. Thomas "the younger"; 2. William;  3.  Robert;  4.  Thomas "the elder."
I suspect that ROBERT is the 2nd son of "William of Stalbridge" and was born about early 1520's. Robert's eldest son, John, was visited by the 'heralds' in 1565 (and John died shortly thereafter).  This visitation of Wilts shows the C/K arms quartered with "Argent, a leopard's face between five crows Sable (Barrett) [but elsewhere this is called the COA of ELLIS],and with Camell.
In checking my records, regarding the first appearances of "Robert of Lillington,"  I find that in 1544/45 "Robert of Lillington" was taxed for land.   In 1546, there is a deed: William Weston of Stalbridge to Robert Kaylway of Lillington, esq. & Thomas Gerrard of Wareham & William Kaylway of Stalbrygge, gent. - feoffment of land in Knighton in Bere Hackett, Dorset [Coker Court Muniments],  In 1550/51, Edward Fauntleroy &c. vs. Robert Kayleway & Johan his wife - manor of Netherlyllington & lands in Dylford, Blokelonds, &c. [Dorset Recoveries].  In 1558, the Inq. p.m. for Robert Kelway, Dorset, was held.
It seems to me that ROBERT (w. Joan Marshall) and their two sons, JOHN & MARTIN, died at relatively young ages.  Robert's will was probated under the Archdeaconry of Sarum, and is indexed as such.  I searched for it, first at the PRO (but the attendants there knew less than I about their holdings...I did not find an index for the Arch. of Sarum wills).  I tried again at Wiltshire R. O., Trowbridge.  They had an index, and the wills, but they begin somewhat beyond 1558.  Robert's will is either "not surviving" or is "hiding someplace."  We must not give up on this.
The fact that Thomas (b. c1476) fails to appear in any records we have collected may also suggest that he did not live to great age, either. He may also have died rather young, perhaps a "genetic thing."  That is why I lamented the lack of continuation of the "freeholders of Whiteparish." If we had the full range of those records, we could see when Thomas became freeholder, and then when Robert took over.  The record shown in the "History" skipped all the way to John (s/o Robert).  Just another of our continuing "short circuits."
Please study, again, the above lineage.  It is based on "official records" in our files, and not on those "wretched" pedigrees. I seem to have used up my "paper."  The Courtenays will get a clean sheet.
Sherrill


From: Warwick Kellaway
Sent: Sep 12, 2003
Subject:
William of Stalbridge plus The Courtenays

Hi Sherrill et al
We are having a lot of fun with our generations.  The problem here I think is a large degree of ambiguity caused by matching names. The way I read Martin's will is that the "Robert Kailewaye BROTHER unto the foresaid Willyam Kaylewaye and Thomas Kaylewaye --" refers to the three brothers, of the four (sons of William - his cousins).  The next reference, to "Thomas Kailewaye the younger sonne unto Willyam Kaileway deceased -", refers to the fourth son - all sons of Willyam K deceased. "Willyam K deceased" being our William of Stalbridge, the brother of Robert, who evidently died in 1558, and the uncle of Martin. The Robert in the will could have been the second son of William of Stalbridge born about 1520-30, but I understood of his second family.  (The age order I had thought was Thomas the elder, Richard and William by his first wife, Thomas the younger, and Robert, by the second).  But we must anyway separate the two Roberts.  The Lillington references of 1544-51 would presumably have been the older man.
Brian Kelway Willoughby took this meaning in an early interpretation, although his order varies.  It also matches the pedigrees. For John and Martin to be the grandsons of a William of Stalbridge born c 1500, they would have been born c 1550-60, which would make them a little too young.  (John died in 1568, while Martin's will was 1575).
With regard to the early Williams, the only reasonably positive fix we have is William of Sherborne c 1400-1469.  I had guessed, from those awful pedigrees, and his will, the first "Sir" William could have been c 1440-1507, and his son "Sir" John c 1465-1547 (presumably born before the 1469 will). To move them each back 15 years, would have them dying at 82 and 97, which does not seem likely.  I even worry about 82 for Sir John, if he was born about 1465. Hence I am happier with another Thomas slotted in as the eldest son of William of Sherborne, born c 1425.
The heralds of the time, and one occasion was 1575, were very concerned about having the correct pedigree/inheritance, and produced a list of those they considered without creditation, and rejected. I could not imagine them getting things very wrong, particularly when some of the Rockborne family were still alive.  They were reasonably clear about the later line of C/K descent, even if woolly about the very beginning. That is why I wonder why they barely mentioned the Rockborne family - surely they were of some note in London and Westminster late in the 1500s at least - even if not so much next century.  The only conclusion I have is that they could not have been in direct line.
I loved the Courtenay dissertation.  Sadly of course not around the 1400s, but there is John of Cullompton. Your C/Katherine appears to be the "dowager" Countess of Devon (the point I was making about Lady Margaret), and John was clearly highly regarded (presuming of course that he was of Cullompton, and not the future Sir John).  You have mentioned previously the possibility that John of C had been married before to an Elizabeth, and seem to have sewn it together with your "orphan child" Joan Tregarthen.  Apart from being very fertile, that could explain how she outlived John by some 53 years. I do not recall where the reference to the monastic orders came from, but understood he had left gold and silver chalices to monastic orders, and was remembered by a window in St Catherine's Chapel, Sherborne Abbey. Looking at this again, I guess the chalices could have gone to the orders outside his will, and maybe it is he who is commemorated by the fragment of stained glass arms there today?  Your bequests however do look on a lower scale.  Again did someone get carried away, and give John credit for another C/K - Sir John in 1547 - maybe even Sir William in 1507?  Where were these fellows buried - some at Rockborne later, but in the early 1500s?
No further comment about that Joanne Barrett, but there were of course several John Barretts.
Best wishes
Warwick


From: Sherrill Williams
Sent: Sep 12, 2003
Subject: Courtenays

Oh Boy!  Warwick opened the door; Bruce passed through it - and I am going to trot right along behind, though somewhat reluctantly.  I agree. The Courtenays and their relationships may be for the "too hard basket."
The Courtenays are a great ball of wax, within which are trapped all kinds of delectable relationships.  The pedigree is extensive (my copy from Visit. of Devon, tho' apparently there is one from Cornwall that has some
corrections).  The Pomeroys are involved; even those same Breretons I keep chasing around; most everyone is there except for C/Ks (directly).  But, John C/K of Cullompton has a foot in the wax.  I hope I have worked out his connection.  Let's see.
Something happened in 1512.  Katherine [Courtenay], Countess of Devon, made John Kayleway "receiver & surveyor" of the lands of Edward Courtenay, late earl of Devon, in the counties of Cornwall, Devon, Somerset, Dorset & Berks.  However, I cannot find on the pedigree an Edward of appropriate era with a wife named Katherine.  It is quite likely then that Katherine is Catherine Plantagenet (d/o King Edw. IV) who was married to the son of Earl, Edward Courtenay (d. 1509), namely William Courtenay, K.B. (knighted at coronation of Hen. VII) and who was imprisoned by Hen. VII and released by Hen. VIII upon his acceession, but not restored in honors, named in his father's will [Earl, Edward C.], died at Grennwich 9 June 1511, and was buried with the honors of an Earl by command of the King, Hen.VIII.  Sir William and Catherine Plantaganet had only two daughters, both named "Margaret."  The first Margaret died young, "choked on a fish bone at Colacombe."  The second Margaret [who was named in her grandfather's will - Earl Edward C.] married Henry Herbert, eldest son of Charles, Earl of Worcester.  She was living 2 July 1520 at Richmond in attendance on the infant Princess Mary.
Edward Courtenay, earl of Devon, married Elizabeth, d/o of Sir Philip Courtenay of Molland.  She died before her husband and is buried in the chapel at Tiverton.
Catherine Plantagenet died 15 Nov. and was buried 3 December 1827 "in her chapel at Tiverton Castle."  To Catherine's care fell the estates of her father-in-law, Earl, Edward C., after the death of her husband, Sir William Courtenay in 1511.  Thus, in 1512 she appointed John C/K to look after the property in Cornwall.
At first I had thought that John C/K of Cullompton's first wife, Elizabeth, may have been a Courtenay.  Elizabeth is referred to in the Patent Rolls, 1548, in reciting the history of some land being granted to John Whytehorne & John Bayly of Chard, Somerset:  "And whereas Thomas, formerly abbot, and the convent of Bukland, Devon, by indenture dated 30 Aug., 9 Hen. VII, granted to Henry Slade of Columpton, Devon, the reversion of three mills in Columpton with the multure of the tenants there, and the space of 8 feet on either side of the mill race then in the tenure of John Kelwey and Elizabeth his wife (for the term of the life of said Elizabeth) for 80 years from the conclusion of the tenure of the said Elizabeth, at 66s.8d. rent payable quarterly;  which Elizabeth died at Colompton 24 June 3 Hen. VIII (1512), etc........"
It was the 1512 date that sent up the flag.  However, 1512 may have another significance.  It is quite likely that later on in the year 1512 (o.s.), John C/K of Cullompton married the "orphan child" (aged about 13), Joan Tregarthan.  Joan's grandmother was a sister to the  Edward Courtenay, Earl of Devon we have been discussing.  And by this way, John C/K of Cullompton got his foot in the Courtenay door.
How does John C/K of Cullompton fit into the overall C/K picture? Everything I have seen about him points him in the direction of the Rockborne clan.  Time will tell!
A short while back, someone commented that John of Cullompton made a bequest to Sherborne Abbey.  Not So!  I have before me a copy of John of Cullompton's will, transcribed by me from a copy of the of the PCC copy at the PRO.  His bequests were to the various "lights" and stores of Cullompton church, and to "the Store of St. George's chapel at Peryholde."  I cannot locate "Peryholde."  That is all he bequeathed to the churches.  He named Sir Giles Strangeways as one of the feoffees of his property and that of wife, Joan Tregarthan (this transaction was made by deed prior to the writing of the will, also).
So, while the Courtenays seem to have had inter-relationships with about every other family in the Kingdom, the only C/K connection I have uncovered is this indirect one, through Joan Tregarthan, the wife of John of Cullompton.
Perhaps we will ferret out some relationships with the Courtenays in the very earliest generations of the families in England.  They do share some apparent family relationships then.  But, I consider this "too hard" for now.
Sherrill


From: Bruce Callaway
Sent: Sep 13, 2003
Subject: Rockbourne family, Dorset families

Hi All, I feel the need for one week R&R! My computer now automatically loads GOOGLE, and my program continually 'shouts' at me!
Whilst we are dotting and crossing, I am fast coming to the conclusion that in our attempt to link our main families, we are searching the wrong time frame. I believe that the Rockbourne family 'spun off' from the Dorset families earlier than first thought. I need more time to develop this theory, but a number of factors continue to bother me. 1. Both the pedigrees and the assembled data provide no acknowledgment of a linkage in the 16th century except a common motif in the COA's.
2. Robert W&L should be moved from the Sherbourne/Lillington crowd closer to the Rockbournes. There is no firm evidence that he had anything to do with the former.
3. Despite the proximity of Athelhampton to Sherbourne etc. Everything associated with it had to do with the Rockbournes.
4. The Sherbourne/Lillington crew had either a solitary nippers and pears blazon or were impaled with the Lytes, Camells, Barrett/Ellis in a way we vaguely know.
5. Sir John's COA (College of Arms manuscript 1H7 folio 36 1530) is clearly quartered with the De Romseys and the Bissett/Bassetts
6.Now this is big controversy, and why I need some R&R! John K/C of Collumpton was close to the Rockbournes. Why? I hear you ask. The common linkage concerns JOAN TREGARTHEN, the WADHAMS and the STRANGEWAYS.
Joan Tregarthen married John Wadham of Merifield after John K/C of Collumpton died. Her daughter by Wadham, Joan (1533-1603) married Giles Strangeway (1524-1562). Giles Strangeway was the son of Sir Henry Strangeways (b.1495 Salford died 1544 at the Siege of Boulogne). Sir Henry's other daughter Anne married Sir John K/C whilst her sister Eleanor married Sir William Meaux of Kingston IOW.The Meaux family had held property on the IOW since the early 1400's. It is possible that Sir John's involvement as Sheriff of Hampshire in sending three of his sons, William, John and Giles (He of the Galliasse) to defend the Isle against the French was partly motivated by concern for the safety of his wife's sister.Also a possible reason for John to subsequently settle there.
The paucity of knowledge of the 15th century K/Cs is at the basis of our problems. This is where the families diverged. Edmund and his rels are critical. Also most important is whom did Sir John marry after Anne Strangeways? Who did his Daddy Sir William marry? And where the heck are his Daddy's brothers Peter and Thomas?
Any applications for R&R will be approved!
Yours with headache, Bruce

From: Pat Schnurr
Sent: Sep 24, 2003
Subject: Visitation of Gloucester

When I get into my "Hodge Podge" boxes I usually see something else I was looking for.  Found the copy of the Visitation of Gloucester - 1623 copied at the SOG on Calo alias Calew.  Do you' ll have this? 


NO dates
Wm. Calwe Lord Ferrers (?) of Groby and Chartley m. Phillipa da. of Roger Lord Clifford, their son Humphrey Calo alias Calew nat. sonn -- d. and heire of Addams of Churchham Rodley Mynstroud and little deane.

Roger Calo alias Calaew sonn of Humphrey  - d and heire of .....
Sambell of Rodley little deane and WestburyFootnote -- Richard Calo... Richard  Callowe of Churcham . Will dtd 2 Nov. 1558, prob. at Glou 27 May 1559.  Names his dau. Alis, Eleanor and Margaret , son Arthur, son Arthur and John Byrde to be overseers.

This goes on for several more generations but name disapapears.  I do not see this listing in our  Pre-1600 index so wonder if we discarded it.  However, names are similar.

Also, still wondering about the COA impaled with Chudleigh in St. Edmunds's Church in Exeter.  Kept looking at that name

In 1999 in my notes  - Reg. of Accts. of Edward Lacy, Bishop of Exeter Vol. 4

    Willilmus Keleway is listed on Page 18 as an accolite in parish of Chuddleigh.  28 Feb. 1427.  He is listed as sub-deacon in 1429 in Badminster.

Richard Kelewa, Deacon, candidate for the priesthood listed 8 Mar. 1446 at Chuddleigh. So Keleways were at Chuddleigh.  What could be the connection at St. Edmund's.


From: Warwick Kellaway
Sent: Sep 29, 2003
Subject: Visual for Warwick's Chronicles

Hi Bruce,

I like the early tree.  Perhaps you could include Roger, although what relationship he was I have no real idea - father of Philip I perhaps.  Bishop Richard's father was Thomas, so the family connection must have been earlier. As outlined in the original Chronicles, which still seem amazingly intact(?), I would still maintain the following very approximate birthdates, which might help:

For Gloucestershire - Brimpsfield, and Wiltshire - probably later including Mokesbeare and Dunes Weston: Guillaume           c1030            (Not in the Chronicles)
(-)                       c1060            (Haven't met him yet)
Roger                 c1090            
Philip I/Nicholas  c1130            
Philip II/Elias I     c1160             Also Hugh
Elias II/Matilda    c1190             William appears in Devon
John I                 c1220            Alexander, and Thomas father of Richard of Durham, appear about here John II                 c1250-1308    Richard and William of Durham - also Philip of Stafford Barton Devon John III                c1280-1336    The Giffard inheritor
William              c1310-1376
Edmund             c1350              (Could a nephew of William)
John/Thomas      c1375
John/William       c1400  

In Mokesbeare Devon we have:
Nicholas             c1130            Possibly the brother of Philip I
Philip                  c1160             Presumably Philip II
William               c1190  

At Dunes Weston Dorset:
Ralph                c1200            Was he another son of Elias, or Philip II?

Surprisingly there were others recorded who would have been born in the early 1200s - Nicholas and Adam in Gloucestershire, John in Devon.  Presumably the sons of either Philip or Elias. As regards your problems with the two Thomases, the elder and younger, and their families, Bruce does it help if there was a large age gap between them - even 20 years?  (I do have a little trouble reading the dates)

Best wishes, Warwick


From: Sherrill Williams
Sent: Oct 2, 2003
Subject: John C/K armiger

Could it be?  Found this last week while on a web cruise -

Devonshire and the Domesday Book -William Cheever held 47 lordships in barony in Devonshire. He was at the Battle of Hastings. He was a senior Baron of Devon. He and his brother, Gosfried held in Normandy at La Chieve (Capra, Chevercourt, Capricuia) in the Seine-Inf.  They were allied to the Busli or Bullys.  William later became one of the chief barons under King William Rufus.  His daughter, Sibylla, married Robert, Sire de Cuilla.

[William Cheever held these "lordships"]:    Ash, Barton, Awliscombe, Badgworthy, Bradford, Witheridge, Colebrook, Cullompton, Ivedon, Lynton, Mackham, Membury, Mildon, Pirzwell,  Puddington, Radworthy, North Molton, Shillingford, Southleigh, Virworthy, West Putford, Whipton, Yowlestone, Cadeleigh, Buckland, Haccombe, Combeinteignhead, Countisbury, Eastleigh, Huntshawl, Ikerton, Ingsdon, North Buckland, Oakford, Rapshays, Lyn.   

In another persons bio, the Seine-Inf is described as "near Rouen."   

To see this go to:   

http://www.infokey.com/Domesday/Devonshire.htm

William Cheever is the first one listed. Ralph de Pomeroy is there, and I have not studied the remainder yet.   

My first "armiger" was found in "Devon Magnates in 1434" (from Trans. of Devonshire Assoc, Vol. 72 [1940].   

There is reference to Calendar of Patent Rolls which is headed 'Devon.'  1434, May 1, Westminster, E. Bishop of Exeter, also Roger Champernown, Knight, and Philip Cary, Knight, knights of the shire for the County of Devon, Commissioners to receive the oath of the following [seventy-four].  The author has listed the names in catagories:
Bishop of Exeter
- Edmund Lacy
Knights of the Shire - Roger Champernown, Philip Cary
Other Knights
- [includes Philip Courtenay]
Esquires
- numbers 10 thru 45
Persons with no Rank stated
- numbers 46-77.   

The numbers were assigned in order to reference Notes added by the author.     #33 (under Esquires) is John Caylleway. The note for John, we have heard before, "John Callaway, of Cheldon and Muxbere in Halberton, was probably the son of John who held Cheldon of Hugh, Earl of Devon in 1377.  His son's name, according to Pole, was Edmund."    Quoting from Bishop Lacy's Register (Vol. II, pp. 609ff; ed. Reichel) the purpose of the commission stated in the original fifteenth century English as follows: - 'Item in eschuyng of ryotes excesses misgovernaunces and disobediauances ayen the kenges estate and ayne his laws and in example yevyng of restfull rule and governyle here after to all his subgettys hyt is avysed appoynted and agreed that no lord nor none other shall wyttyngly receyve cherishe holde in household ne maynteyne pellours robbours oppressours of the people mansleers felonys outlaws ravisshers of woman or eny other open misdoers, etc...........   

The writ was issued on May 1 to the commissioners (above listed) to appear, but was transmitted so slowly that 18 commissioners were not served with the writ in time to appear, complained Bishop Lacy.  Among the 18 was listed "John Caylleway armiger"        

Therefore, we have a John C/K "armiger" in 1434. We assume his COA has "pears" and "glazier's nippers."  Is there a way to find out to whom and when this COA was first awarded?  Bruce, any ideas?      Sherrill


From: Warwick Kellaway
Sent: Oct 2, 2003
Subject: College of Arms, Muxbeare and a couple of Johns

Bruce, Sherrill,

Intrigued to see the latest message.  Not so much for the possibility, which hopefully just might lead us to the source of the arms, or at least the 1434 arms, but for the other information.

Here we have John Caylleway of Cheldon and Muxbeare in 1434.  John is possibly the last patron of St Giles at Kellaways in Wiltshire, but more probably his son - hence the call to Westminster.  (Remember that Edmund left Wiltshire for Cheldon about 1394 - John returned from 1405 to 1429, before being recorded as patron of Cheldon Rectory in 1440 - the latter may of course have been his son.) 

John is therefore not from Stafford Barton, but does relate to Muxbeare.  Muxbeare is very old in family terms. When did the principal family vacate Muxbeare - we do have the Stafford Barton family there as tenants later? 

We apparently had three Johns about that time, John I c1370-1430, presumably the man above, and probably the son of Edmund, and brother of the Thomas who married Joan Bingham, John II c1400-1467, and John III 1448- .My thought has been that William of Sherborne was the younger brother of John II, and that John III either died young, or had no descendants, such that William's family inherited the Bingham properties (William died in 1469 only two years after John).

John was also probably the man involved with the burning of Sherborne Abbey in 1436.  But had he moved from Cheldon to Sherborne at that time, if still patron of Cheldon?  (William was not referred to with regard to the burning, although both were involved with the Sherborne property acquired for John and his heirs in 1454).  

Muxbeare itself is only a few km from Cullompton.  John of Cullompton therefore was presumably part of that family, but whose son?  He may have been born c1460-70.  Was he perhaps an unrecorded son of the other John, son of William of Sherborne, who died in 1478 (the father of Agnes)?  At the time Agnes was not referred to as an heiress, so may have had a brother?  (This John was only referred to in the Devon pedigrees.) John's 1467 IPM referred to Rockborne in Hampshire.  Did he live there?  Did his son John live there?  Presumably the property passed to William's descendants when John III died.  Hence the Rockborne knights. What arms might John have borne? 

It would be great to access the College of Arms.
Best wishes
Warwick


From: Sherrill Williams
Sent: Oct 3, 2003
Subject: Ralph/Radulphus from McWhirter's notes

I have just scanned through my pre-1600 C/K index for John, William, Roger and Ralph.  Do we have trouble!  I will deal further with that tomorrow morning, but I will mention this, about Ralph/Radulphus from McWhirter's notes.  And, am frustrated that McWhirter's researcher seldom cited his sources.  Anyway:    

1260.  The name of Radulphus le Calewe is first recorded as holding the manor of Dunes Weston near Stalbridge, Dorset. This manor was later named CALLEWS WESTON. The rent payable annually to the Abbot of Sherborne in regards to this manor included a pair of gloves.  Very old heraldic records indicate that the arms of KALOWAY were three boars heads on a chevron. It is believed that Radulphus le Calewe's ancestors came to Dorset from the lowlands of the Benelux countries and settled near the source of the River Cale (it is interesting to speculate on the name of the river - ( Bruce Callaway says, think this was the researcher's comment ).

     We must go back and re-study the Coker Muniments records.  Recall that John (of the 1308 will) had 2 sons named John, by diferent wives.  Roger de Stapelbrigge gave land in Gummersheye & Stapelbrigge to John le Calewe, and called him his "nephew" in 1312.  In 1290, Roger de Stapelbrigge was guardian of John le Calawe, the younger. Can we sort out the 2 Johns; are they part of our problem?     We are losing part of our trail to those who became Westons, Staffords, Clarkes, etc., and don't know exactly who or when the names changed.  I suppose that is why, in the end we come down to the family at Sherborne and those at Rockborne who stuck with their C/K surname.     Later, Sherrill


From: Warwick Kellaway
Sent: Oct 3, 2003
Subject: Ralph/Radulphus from McWhirter's notes

Sherrill

There seem to be several issues appearing on the table.

I learnt some time ago to be wary of those articles.  Get the basic facts, but watch the comments.

John le Calewe of 1308 and his son John, were clearly descended from Elias and Bertha.  They lived at Dunes Weston, near Stalbridge Dorset, only 50 years or so after Radolphus/Ralph.  Surely therefore they were the same family, and nothing to do with the low countries.  (Shouldn't mention it, but the family was in the low countries later, but presumably for trade.)

Can't help but wonder whether the Boars heads mentioned on the arms (and still haven't found another reference to them), may have been an early derivation of the Leopards heads?

Anyway the Dunes Weston family, left behind when the principal John appears to have gone to the Wiltshire manor, presumably not long after 1308 (St Giles was founded in 1304), did assume the Weston name quite soon.

I had missed the two sons named John, but if one became a Weston, we do not have too much of a problem.  One went to Wiltshire, the other stayed home?  It might also explain the odd Edmund-William-Edmund patrons of St Giles a little later.

The guardianship is an interesting aspect - their father, also John, must have died about 1290.  But the will was 1308 - 18 years later?  Was there a family squabble?  The second wife/mother could have died, and the boy was sent to an aunt?  Was that an earlier John?  Were there two generations missed in the Bertha Giffard inheritance? 

Questions.
The Stowford/Staffords of course did something similar with the name 150 or so years later.  That Stafford Barton family needs a lot of sorting out.  The Clarkes were the result of one of those infuriating aliases.


From: Bruce Callaway
Sent: Oct 3, 2003
Subject: Sherborne Arms

In the discussion of the Boars, I was reminded of your letter Warwick from last year part of which I append with the results of my then research. We really need the College of Arms to sort out these wretched COA's. Meantime I await anything that you have on the Eleanor K secondly married to John Fitzpaine.
Bruce 

Bruce
 
 I have just received a letter and pictures from Brian.  No no e-mail yet, but still a very valuable contributor.

 Eleanor Kelwaye had married John Fitzpaine in 1353, after having previously been married to Ralph de Horsey of Sherborne.  There may well have been property at Cheriton Fitzpaine, as a consequence.
 
 Ha! Ha! or Fi Fo Fy Fum!
 
 I see also that the "old Kaloway" arms were said to be three boars heads over a chevron, (over or around?), the same as those later borne by the Weston family of Dorset.  There was the chevron again, and the boars head (and the Dorset John le Calewe).
 
 Still stirring.  (A good meal may require good stirring). 
 Warwick

Onion and Leopard Arms     Leopard's Face


From: Sherrill Williams
Sent: Oct 3, 2003
Subject: College of Arms

That was a very good explanation, Bruce. We need to remember that the C/K arms in the window of St
Katherine's Chapel, Sherborne, indicate a "third son." Do we have an idea of just when that particular piece
of glass was originally placed in the windows at Sherborne?  In reference to the 1434 "armiger John,"
if his arms were also "nippers & pears," that might suggest our interest in glassmaking was quite early in
England. It is difficult to learn much about early glassmaking in England; most all info suggests that
glass was imported from the continent - or elsewhere. Could we have been involved in glassmaking back in
Normandy?
Sherrill


From: Warwick Kellaway
Sent: Oct 3, 2003
Subject: College of Arms

Sherrill

 My impression is that the small remnant of the arms in St Catherines Chapel was reinstalled after  the damage in the early 1500s, possibly because the importance of the family was recognised.  There may have been many more examples of the family arms in the Abbey beforehand.  Sherborne Abbey itself had been rebuilt between 1437 and about 1475, so the stained glass presumably  would presumably have been replaced towards the end of that period, say around 1470.

 There is a lot of medieval stained glass in Europe, despite the Wars, compared with the UK, probably
 because of our vandalistic Protestant and Puritan forebears, and parts of Europe remain noted for
 fine glassware.  Not so sure about stained glass there today.

 In England there was a resurgence of the craft in Victorian times, when the methods of stained glass
 production changed. (We have only one or two examples of the medieval type here).  I do not think  that the quality of medieval English stained glass was too far away from the European, although the  earliest craftsmen presumably came over from Europe.

 Without checking back, I also do not think there are many existing examples of stained glass, as we  know it in the churches, before around 1200.  In England presumably craftsmen were available locally through those early centuries.  It is extremely unlikely that our family would have brought the craft over from Normandy with them, especially if the first of them were the "barbarian" knights we have heard about.  It is just possible that later they may have "imported" some later, but there would need to be some evidence discovered of that.

 It does seem certain however that they were involved by 1400-1500, but I would imagine in a "managerial" position.  Any man in an armigerous situation at that time, would have been from a knightly family, or above.  Probably not too many younger sons either would have taken up a trade. It was a little later that the guilds produced people with sufficient social standing, or wealth, to be able to secure arms.  We know that the family had armigerous standing as of right.  I would assume therefore that they employed the craftsmen.

 When all this began we have yet to discover, but we do have Sherborne Abbey in the shadows. Coincidence maybe, but if they had any connection with stained glass beforehand, it must have developed with the rebuilding of the Abbey.  Just who in the family would have been in charge remains a puzzle.  John of Cullompton is said to be the man commemorated in St Catherines Chapel, although he was a "merchant of the staple".  Could he have employed the glaziers?  He would not be old enough, so what about his father?  I suggested he might have been the John who was the father of Agnes, and died in 1478.  (Easy perhaps to mix two Johns later?)

 This gets right away from the first Sir William, who I still think may have been the first to display the pears and snippers arms, possibly following his knighthood in 1501.  He of course had the right to choose his own arms.
 Best wishes
 Warwick


From: Warwick Kellaway
Sent: Oct 5, 2003
Subject: Coker Muniments

Sherrill
 
What you have there is great.
 
Firstly we have a definite connection in 1276 between the early Sir Ralph of 1240-50 and John le Calewe (and I still have no idea why the de became le).
 
I unfortunately also have to agree that we are looking at another C/K family that became de Stapelbrigge.  Whether Roger was originally a C/K, or his wife, becomes immaterial as presumably one was, and their descendants would have been relatives.  I looks to me that John possibly moved out of the Dunesweston manor, as younger sons would, and was "adopted" by Roger, presumably as his heir. 
It is unlikely however that John the younger assumed the name de Stapelbrigge.
 
We had a Roger Caillewe/Calewe referred to in 1247 and 1260, in Wiltshire.  He looks very much like the father of this Roger (and was another who must have been born around 1220 - was he the younger brother of Sir Ralph?)
 
Interesting that the 1308 will of John le Calewe mentions a son Robert.  Could our mysterious Roberts of 160 years later begin about there?
 
I am still confused as to where that manor of Dunesweston was - in Stalbridge - or perhaps what is now Stalbridge Weston? 
Just who the Westons were is also still not clear, but presumably younger sons from one of the Dunesweston families, and did they have their own arms - one had another chevron, this time with three roses, not leopards or boars heads.  (Was it not usual for younger sons to "modify" the family arms?) 
There were Weston around in the reign of Henry III, and are referred to as holding land in "Weston", but which Weston?  We do have a William de Weston at an Inquisition in the Forest of Gillingham in 1312 - he looks likely.  But others are not clear.
 
John le Calawe and de Calewe, are almost certainly the same man.  I think he had property from Muxbeare in Devon to Kellaways in Wiltshire during this time, from 1308 to 1336, when he died on 10 September (amazing we have the date - so he had some importance).
The Dorset Lay Subsidy Rolls of 1327 and 1332, with properties held by John, give an indication of later families we see in the Cranborne, Six Penny Handley, Halstock, and Gussage All Saints villages hundreds of years later.
 
If we have a John de Caleweston referred to in 1316, 1323, 1335, 1345 and 1348, as the nephew of Roger de Stapelbrigge, he was presumably the younger John brother, dying in 1348.
 
The William, and two Edmunds who appear in Dorset and Wiltshire from now, probably also Eleanor, were someone's descendants, but whose?  One of the Johns presumably.
 
More evidence has emerged.
 
Regards 
Warwick

From: Bruce Callaway
Sent: Oct 5, 2003
Subject: Coker Muniments

Sherrill
 
What you have there is great. "Bruce in blue". I agree
 
Firstly we have a definite connection in 1276 between the early Sir Ralph of 1240-50 and John le Calewe (and I still have no idea why the de became le). I believe that this is important, but you will have to bear with my reasoning! Sir Geoffrey Coker was Prior of Cadweli in the Diocese of St.Davids in the Church of St. Paul's London. He was called by the then Bishop of St. Davids to witness that the muniments, writings and also confirmations touching the Abbey of Shyreburn (Sherborne) "Had not been cancelled, not abolished, nor in any part thereof corrupted, from word to word". This was in 1301.
 
It is apparent that Coker performed the same role at many other Abbeys(Hence the COKER MUNIMENTS) as the muniments took the place of the Cartularys. The latter recorded day to day comings and goings, liasons, births and who occupied what. The former became more concerned with occupancy, and therefore became vital after the advent of the Petty Assizes in 1166 when the WRIT OF NOVEL DISSEISIN succeeded the Writ of Right.
 
I do not here intend here to discuss the transition from the Feudal system to the subsequent Lord versus tenant situation but immediately refer you back to Sherrill's entry:
 
1290. Nov. 1 Conveyance by Roger de Stapelbrigge etc.
 
It is clear that on or about this date, there was a helluva row going on in 'our' Family. The Roger referred to was clearly a brother to this John le Calewe who was married to Cecily. He has been appointed guardian to the younger son of this couple and is referring to him as his nephew 22 years later and still favouring the lad with property until the dear boy died in 1348.
 
The evidence for the row? The writ of novel disseisn! This writ asked only one question of the king's assizes viz. "Was the applicant on the land and has he recently and unjustly been ejected from it?" The jury of twelve must refer to all the evidence (The muniments). As the writ is addressed from the King to the Sherriff , if the assize answers in the affirmative that the applicant has a genuine complaint, he would be restored to the land.
 
Like Wow! Referring back to the 1290 entry, Roger le Calawe (of Stalbridge) acting as guardian for his nephew young John Le Calawe somehow arranges for the young lad to sue his Father under a writ of novel disseisn. The lad wins and is restored to his lands. The appearance at the Assizes requires the two adult Calawes to be identified in the munimentsI  hence Roger le Calawe is documented as Roger of Stalbridge. I could go on, but that is enough for to-day. I am on the case!  unfortunately also have to agree that we are looking at another C/K family that became de Stapelbrigge.  Whether Roger was originally a C/K, or his wife, becomes immaterial .
 
More evidence has emerged.

From: Sherrill Williams
Sent: Oct 5, 2003
Subject: Coker Muniments

Here I am - a day late, but not a $ short.  Well, maybe. I cannot seem to locate my transcription of the 1308 will of John C, but believe he named wife Cecilly in that, and perhaps some other children besides one John. Will launch a new search; probably can find it in Kellchat.
    Looking at these Coker Court records, it is interesting that our Weston branch is still dealing at Calleweston during the 1500's and as late as 1610, including the feoffment by William Weston of Stalbrigge, gent. to Robert Kaylway of Lillington, gent, Thomas Gerrard late of Wareham & William Kaylway of Stalbrigge, gent., land in Knighton in Bere Hackett.  Wonder if our Westons were "armigerous"?
    The first record of our Stalbridge family is 1276.
1276. Dec. 6.  Lease & counterpart by John le Calewe of Dunesweston to Christina, w/o Vincent de Lidelynch [another place of interest to us] , for 6 silver marks, of a tenement which Ralph le Calewe sometime held in Dunesweston, with pasture for 2 oxen. [I assume this is John of the 1308 will.]
 
1290. Nov. 1.  Conveyance by Roger de Stapelbrigge, guardian of John the younger son of John le Calewe to John le Calewe and Cecily his wife of the tenement of the said John son of J. le Calewe in North Weston (in Stalbridge) which the later recovered by writ of novel disseisin from John his father before the Justice at Dorchester.
 
1297. Feb. 2.  Grant by John le Calewe, eldest son of John le Calewe and of Cecily his wife, to John le Calewe, his brother, of the land which Geoffrey de Bassewlle had in Dunesweston in the manor of Stapelbrigge.
 
1297. Feb. 2.  Quitclaim from John le Calewe first born elder son of John le Calewe of Dunesweston and of Edith his wife, to John le Calewe, the younger first born son of "the same" John le Calewe and Cecily his wife, his brother of all the lands, etc. in Dunesweston in Stapelbridge manor which Alice de Ralegh has in dower.  [Note: the Raleighs were in here early.]
 
1302. Dec. 6.  Grant by John le Calewe to William Wymel of a messuage, etc. which Crystina Byncent sometime held, with 10 acres of land in Weston (in Stalbridge).
 
1308.  The last will of John le Calewe.
    [Synopsis from Coker Court records:  he leaves legacies in money to the fabric of Salisbury Church, Stapelbrygge, and Caundel-Haddon and Milborn Port Churches, and to various chaplains, etc. for services; the remainder of his goods, etc. to Cecily his wife, whom he makes his executrix with John and Robert his sons.
Dated 24 June 1308; probate granted at Shaftesbury on 9th Sept. 1308.]
 
1312. July 20.  Grant by Roger de Stapelbrigge to John le Calewe, his nephew, of a half virgate of land and four acres of meadow in Gummersheye and Stapelbrigge, which Nicholas Chartney released to John de Stapelbrigge his brother, etc.   [Note: whose brother?  Roger's?]
 
1316. July 20.  Quitclaim from John de Wyveleschull to John de Calewe, of Weston, of 3 acres of land in La More in the manor of Stapelbrygge on La Hyethe.
 
1323. May 6.  Grant by Roger de Stapelbrygge to John de Caleweweston, of his land, meadow and cod in Hargrave in the parish of Stabelbrygge; rent 6s.8d.  Witnesses: Dom. John de Percy, Knot., John de Thornhull, Robert de Stapelbrygge, etc.
 
1323. Nov. 6.  Quitclaim by Roger de Stapelbrygge to John de Caleweweston, of half a virgate of land which the latter holds at Gommersheye (in Stalbridge).
 
1335. Feb. 3.  Quitclaim by Robert de Stapelbrigg to John de Calewestone, his nephew, of the crofts called Clerkescroft, Brydgore and La Park in Nywenam in Stapelbrigge.  [Note: is this the John who became a Weston? - or did he remain a Calewe?]
 
1345. March 12.  Quitclaim by Robert de Newenam to Richard le Vatte of a piece of arable land in Cartweyfurlong, in Nywenam in Stapelbrigge.  Wits:  John de Caleweston, John de Thornhull, Geoffrey le Gaunt.
 
1348.  Inventory of the goods of John de Caleweston made Monday bef. Christmas 1348, including money (5 li. 6sh. 8d.), purses, spoons, dishes, wool, corn, etc. with their values, the sum total amounting to 53 li. 1sh. 2d.
[Note: right here we lose one of our Johns.  Did this one adopt the Weston surname, or was he in between with the Caleweston surname?  We don't know if he were married and had issue.  Nevertheless, we still have one John Calewe remaining, apparently.  What we are looking for here is the link to the John, father of William of Sherborne who died 100 years later than the above John Caleweston.  Another point that should be mentioned - in some of our exploration of deeds involving the Lillington property, with Fauntleroys, etc., there was a man with the surname of Stapelbrigge who witnessed a transaction.  Did one of our Calewe and Weston bunch splinter off and adopt the Stapelbridge surname (not that we need any more complications)?
 
    We got a few bonuses from the Coker Court Muniments. For example:
Dated, Loderforde, 24 June 17 Hen. VII.  Conveyance and counterpart by William Wheker and John Aleyn to John Wyke & wife Joan of their manor of Loderforde which they had by grant of John Cammel of Shapwyke, esquier; with remainders to John Cammel father of the said John and the heirs of his body.
 
    The Dorset Lay Subsidy for 1327 lists:
Johanne le Calewe in Stalbridge Weston in Stalbridge, taxed for "moveable goods."
Johanne le Calewe, Cranborne Hd, Petersham (Farm) in Holt
Willelme le Calewe, Six Penny Handley Hd, taxed for "moveable goods"
Roger le Calewe, Cranborne Hd., Pentridge (also in 1332)
Roberto Callewey, Halstock Hd, Dorset
    The 1332 Dorset Subsidy lists:
Johanne Calewe, Knowlton Hd, Gussage All Saints
Johanne le Calewe, Cranborne Hd, Petersham (Farm), etc
Johanne le Calewe, Weston Stalbridge, Weston in Stalbridge.
(there were also several Johns in Wiltshire subsidy 1332)
 
    I have tried to keep my "blinders" on, not looking over to Devon, or Wiltshire, yet.  The above is obviously the beginning of the Sherborne family in Dorset; just how to sort it out is the problem. 
 
    Sherrill

From: Sherrill Williams
Sent: Oct 6, 2003
Subject: Westons from Coker Muniments

Here is what we have: [from Coker Muniments]
 
Acquittance from John (Frith) Abbot of Sherborne to Robert de Brodeforde, rector of Stapelbry (Stalbridge) and Hugh son of John de Weston, executors of the will of the latter, of 100 shillings bequeathed to the Abbey by him.
    Dated at Sherborne Chapter House, 14 May 1349.
 
Grant by Hugh Weston and Amicia his wife to Thomas Manston, Robert Moure, John Symondesburgh parson of Stoke Abbots and William Whyttok, chaplain, of the manor of Caleweston (Callow Weston) with its lands in Nywenham, and Hargrave (in Stalbridge).
    Dated 20 Oct 1402.
 
Grant and counterpart by Hugh Weston of Calloweston, gent. to William Strangewayes of Haselber Bryan and Robert Gallop, yeoman, of the messuages, etc. called Beltons Bridge and Brodfeilds, etc. in Haselbury Bryan, to the use of the said Hugh for his life, and at his death for William his son.
      Dated 4 Feb 1555 [1, 2 Phillip & Mary]
 
Deed of Sale for #500, from Thomas Weston, of Callow Weston, Esq. to Anne Byshoppe of 2 messuages & various lands in Clenger (Clianger) in Buckland-Newton, co. Dorset.  Dated 26 Sept 1610.
 
The Dorset Lay Subsidies:
1525 - Stalbridge Weston tithing in Stalbridge
Margaret Weston (taxed for)  Land - 9
William Weston  Land-6
 
1543, 1544, 1545 - Sherborne Division - Stalbridge
Margery Weston, wid.  L-6, L-6, L-5
 
1543, 1544, 1545 - Weston (in Stalbridge)
William Weston (taxed for)  G-16, G-14, G-14
Hugh Weston  G-2,  [blank],  G-2
Alice Weston  [blank], G-2, [Blank]
[Note: interesting that Hugh was not taxed in 1544, and Alice was only taxed that year, 1544]
 
There were no Westons on the 1598 subsidy lists.
 
1524, 1525 -Sherborne Division, Haydon tithing
William Stalbrygge  (taxed for) Wages-1
 
1544 - Haydon
Robert Selbryng   Goods-1
1545 - Haydon
Robert Stalbridge  Goods-1
 
TUDOR MUSTER ROLLS
1539 - Weston tithing (Weston in Stalbridge)
    Wm Weston - (to supply) a whole harness
 
1539 - Sherborne Hd, Haydon tithing
    Rob Stabrygge (A)  - a bow
 
    The appearances are that our Weston and Stalbridge "cousins" were a small group.  It might be of interest to see the will of John de Weston who was dead in 1349, if we ever come across it. Is it possible that he is the John de Caleweston whose Inventory was dated 1348?  If so, this would be the point where the WESTON line began.
 
    Sherrill

From: Warwick Kellaway, Bruce Callaway
Sent: Oct 7, 2003
Subject: Coker Muniments Part 2

Bruce (Bruce in blue)
 
I would have to look at some of the references further, but suspect advowdson means something like acknowledged son or relative - any good? Not quite good enough Warwick! I cannot believe that when I query GOOGLE, I keep being referred to KelChat. We seem to have been (courtesy of what Sherrill has collected) of being the only ones in the world referring to the 'avowdson" of the church. And yet I had one vague reference to the fact that there was a law introduced which countermanded the fact that Church property could not be owned or transferred other than by a church to church situation. Somewhere around the dissolution this may have occured, because a lot of our references refer to a particular Church or Abbey and the Avowdson. One could speculate that it is the right of the purchaser to also appoint the vicar, but I can find nothing to substantiate this. Unfortunately I have misplaced my Encyclopedia Britannica on disc, my Oxford and World dictionaries do not help.
 
As you stated, we are really now getting down in the reconstruction of the Family Tree to the legals of the inheritances. In this regard, I am very impressed with the University of Toronto who are computerising a whole lot of undated documents from the medieval period. It is clear that the Latin cliches attached to these documents (carefully transcribed by the Monks of the time) reflect law changes thus enabling reasonably accurate dating of the documents. I will not bore you with examples of the cliches, but you may be familiar with the Tudor wills beginning with " I .......being sik of bodye but sounde of minde". In these wills, the "proving" of the will was still being written in Latin, and the cliches there embodied reflected the law of the time.
 
All this is a bit esoteric for my late hour therefore I will desist, but  I believe that we are moving to a more sophisticated interpretation of what we have. I have ceased feeding my machine ammendments to my file from Guillaume (William) to Edmund until I can get direction from yourself and Sherrill on the 'bleeding' le Calawes, particularly the Johns' amongst them !
 
I agree that we probably do not need to follow the Stapelbrigges, or even the Westons, too far.  Clearly they were related, but to a lesser degree, in so far as we really are looking at the senior family at that time.  They are important to position those we are looking for, but the only consequence that could occur is where the senior line might disappear.

From: Sherrill Williams
Sent: Oct 7, 2003
Subject: Advowson

Since I am now the "international reference" to  "advowson" via Kellchat, I had best clarify the word.
 ADVOWSON - the right of presenting a clergyman to a  benefice. A Collative Advowson is when the right to
 present is held by the bishop who also appoints. A  Presentative Advowson occurs when the right of
 presenting is held by some other person, usually lay.
 Normally the bishop could not refuse the choice. Lay Advowsons are known since the 8th century. In
 1933 parochial councils were allowed to purchase advowsons except where they were the gift of the crown
 or bishop. Since 1924 a lay advowson may not be sold after two vacancies have occurred.
 ADVOWSON APPENDANT - An advowson annexed to an estate or manor.
 ADVOWSON IN GROSS - An advowson belonging to a person.
 BENEFICE - A clerical appointment with specified duties and maintained by particular revenues  (temporalities). [From: "The Local Historian's Encyclopedia," John Richardson, Historical Publications Limited, 1974 (reprint 1977).]
    Sherrill


From: Bill Piper
Sent: Oct 8, 2003
Subject: William of Iwerne, Abbot of Sherborne, Canon of Salisbury


1356. Subdeacons. William Calewe of Iwerne, dioc. of Salisbury, ad tit, Abbot of Sherborne & canon of
Salisbury [Register of Wm. Edington, Bishop of Winchester, Pt. II, 1346-1366.]

Just a suggestion:
ad tit - to the title

So William of Iwerne became Abbot of Sherborne and Canon of Salisbury.
Bill


From: Sherrill Williams, Bruce Callaway (in blue)
Sent: Oct 10, 2003
Subject: Sir John of Rockborne's second family

In browsing through the records I came across something I have long intended to mention.  This seems to concern 2 of the sons of Sir John of Rockborne's second family.  They apparently were involved in the wars on the continent of Henry 8th and Elizabeth. This started out with the intended invasion of England by the French (a troublesome race of people who remain so to this present day!) The invasion commenced across the Channel, was predicted, and repulsed. I have already proposed why Sir John was so involved. He had to supply not only arms, horses, food etc but his own sons as Commanders of troops that he provided. An added incentive was the fact that the French proposed firstly to attack and occupy the Isle of Wight which is about 5 miles from Portsmouth, and his sister-in-law, who at the time was resident there,and was in danger.

 
Dear old Henry V111 had built his 'monstrous' warship the Mary Rose in anticipation, but the bleeding thing went 'belly -up' after launching( see endless episodes on the History Channel). Nevertheless the French were repulsed for the last ever attempt at the invasion of England. Back to more mundane things..................
 
 
    State Papers, Henvy VIII, 1545, Vol. XX.
i-#1329.  Edward Bellingham to Hen. VIII (1545, July 31)
- has taken the musters & encloses the names of the leaders with their numbers.
(2) List of names of the captains and numbers of their men who "came out of Hampshire to serve the King's Majesty in the Isle of Wight," viz --
The lord Chancellor's band - Oliver Wallop, captain, 201;  Mr. Henry Calaway, captain, 147 [& others}.  total:  2, 681 men. He got his see below!
 
ii-#88.  The Navy.  List of the fleet, showing in columns the captains, ships, tonnage and men -
    Giles Calawey - "George of Ditsam"      1545, Aug. 10 We have dear Giles
 
ii-App. 2 (2vi).  1545.   (late 1544 or first half of 1545).
    The Household -
     vi.  "The wages and fees of the ordinary of the King's side paid within his Household, besides thos above written,"  viz.:  Gentlemen Pensioners  [includes]  Wm. Keylway...........
 
    Letters and Papers, Foreign and Domestic in the reign of Henry VIII, Vol. IX, Part 5:
pp 552-55.  DCCCLXXXVI.  Wallop to the Privy Council The following is most important, and may at first sight present a puzzle to readers with the reference " a trumpet of myn (mine) et seq." Let me quote from from Domestic Elizabeth Vol.XXV11 1563 Feb.10 Portsmouth.
"Sir Wm Keyllwey to Sir William Cecill. The proclamation, dated Westminster, Feb 8, [ against suche as did helpe the Frenchmen to rob and take divers ships and merchandise of the King of Spaine, and of divers other Merchants Strangers] has been solemnly proclaimed by sound of trumpet; and forwarded to other post towns."
[2nd paragraph].  In writing this my letter a trumpet of myn, that I sent yesterday to Bullen to inquire of certain Englischemen that shuld be taken, returnyd this evening, being conducted hether by Monsieur de Beez trumpet, who without hym shuld hardly have escaped, and in going thether yesterday was dyvers tymes in danger to be killed.  Whiche two trumpets declared to me of fyve Englishchemen taken now at Bullen, whereof on[e] is named Beawmonde a gentleman sent hether by Dr. Lee; and he with the others fowght as hardely as any that I have hard of, by the report of the said trumpettes, and myn hard Monsieur de Beez so to declare, gretly lamenting that they wold not yeld them selfes, meanyng that by a brother of MR. KELLEWAYES, the pencioner, who did fight so wel on fote, that he did hurte and kyll 7 horsses of the Frenchmen, and one man; his so well fighting with thothers shall put the Frenchemen all this yere in greater feare of us.  Also there were 2 horsemen of Mr. Bowlmers companey taken, which went over at Marquyson, notwithstanding the turnpike being then there on with certen horsemen of Bullen,  were constrayned to take the ryver, where as it is saied never any hath passed; and although these men by theire one folly was thus taken, the grete brute I here of their wel doinges dothe muche satisfie me and many moo, and specially of the said KELLEWEY.  The town of Marguyson is all burned........etc.  (s) John Wallop
From Camp besides Qlqnyne, the 27th of July. 
 
    First, who was the "Pensioner"?The "pencioner" in Tudor times had an entirely different connotation to to-days 'Pensioner'. It was a court appointment, but is eluding me at the moment.  Apparently he was William Cayleway, 2nd Knight, s/o Sir John, and husband of Dame Anne.  Second, the above seems to suggest that the "pensioner's" brother, Henry, was the one killed.  And, we press on -One down!
 
Calendar of State Papers, Foreign Series in Reign of Elizabeth, Vol. XXII, July-Dec., 1588, ed. by Richard Bruce Wernham, M. A. (1936).
p. 194.  "a note of such persons as do daily sue here for money due unto them upon thier pay, having the bills of their captains for the same."   1588, September 10:
    The Widow of Lieutenant George Kellawe, late slaine, in the company of Captain Christopher Bloonte...........4l. 4s. 0d.
 
    Could this be the George, son of Sir John, about whom we seem to find no other record? Just great Sherrill. That takes care of George. Two down a couple to go including my ancestor!
 
Bruce

From: Bruce Callaway
Sent: Oct 12, 2003
Subject: Sir William K/C Pencioner

Sir William was the Pencioner referred to I have no doubt, and his two half brothers Henry and George were killed in battle in 1545. Giles survived which leaves John who subsequently moved to the Isle of Wight and whom I claim (rightly or wrongly) as my ancestor, and maybe, just maybe Warwick and Bill's as well!

I have finally found that the GENTLEMEN PENCIONERS were a quasi-military court (New Guard) consisting of fifty well born men formed by Henry V111 in 1539.

I should note that I have found the almost daily communications between Sir William K/C and Sir William Cecil (Lord Burghley [Burleigh] 1521-1598). Cecill, as you would know served at court for 40 years through 3 reigns. He was chief adviser to Elizabeth, established an efficient Secret Service and at the time of his death was Lord Treasurer.

The communications are detailed in the publication "Domestic-Elizabeth", and a younger, more enthusiastic person could create a best seller from the detailed words of our ancestor during this troubled time!

Sherrill is probably readying to fly to Salt Lake City for the Annual Meeting. I am sure that it will be a great success. To-day there were remembrance services all over Australia and in Bali Indonesia for our 'September 11'. I wish that I had a smart cliche to explain human behaviour in genealogical and therefore historical terms that could be applied to our present and future!
Bruce


From: Warwick Kellaway
Sent: Oct 17, 2003
Subject: Piddlehinton

Hi Pat

My latest Journal arrived yesterday, and what did I find - Piddlehinton.

From my first attempts at research, Piddlehinton has been a place of fascination.  Apart from the interesting name - it is on the River Piddle in Dorset - I had never been able to find out much about it, or how it fitted family history. Even driving through some years ago, unlike adjacent Piddletrenthide, there was little to see.

I discovered a whole series of Kellaways in the Parish Registers there from 1730, and a few in the 1640s, a couple around 1690-1700, but frustratingly nothing between.  There were family wills, and land records.
Unfortunately the families there left no male heirs, although they were associated with at least one
later family near Abbotsbury in South Dorset, near where my family lived between 1787 and 1850.
At one time I looked at a William born in Piddlehinton in 1746 as possibly my forebear in Puncknowle
in 1787.  Later I found in fact my forebear was christened as William Thomas Calloway on the Isle of
Wight in 1756.

I still do not know why he went to Dorset, although it seems it was after his first wife died. There were other Kellaways there already, including a William and Thomas, who seemed to be related. His father was Edward, not a recorded name in those parts of Dorset, although there were William and Thomases in Piddlehinton.
We do however think that many of the IOW families originated from a Dorset source, and Dewlish,
whence one IOW Thomas originated in the mid 1500s, is near Piddlehinton.

I note that Henry V took over the village/manor in 1417, two years after Agincourt, and the defeat of the French.  Our family was prominent in Dorset at that time, but I have found no recorded association with Piddlehinton before about 1600.

The families who lived there were descended from Nicholas of Forston/Charminster, between Sherborne
and Dorchester, who lived from c1540-45 to 1594, and was probably the forebear of many mid Dorset
families.  From his will, we know he produced a family of six sons, Ralph, Christopher, Thomas,
John, Erasmus and Henry, daughters Ellinor and Agnes, born presumably around 1570-80, and including
several common family names.  Ellinor was the name of William of Stalbridge's second wife, and mother of Thomas the younger.  However, there is no evidence of any family connection, and although a man of substance, as with some well known Roberts, there is no mention of Nicholas in any of the Pedigrees.

A further series of wills confirms Christopher and Nicholas, born around 1610, as the sons of Ralph; with Nicholas and Christopher, possibly Samuel, born around 1640, the sons of Nicholas.  That Nicholas's sons were Paul and John, possibly Christopher and Nicholas, in turn arriving about 1670-80, while Paul's sons were James, John and Nicholas, born 1700-10. That is where the sons disappeared, dead by 1778.

Clearly considered country gentry, a number of Parish Records actually referred to the senior members as Mr. In one of the last wills, James Kellaway of Piddlehinton in 1764 left his leasehold estate to his
wife Lucy, with £200 each to daughters Margaret, Lucy, Ann and Susannah, £600 to Purdon Crew and
Mary when they reached 21.  £2,000 was a substantial amount in those days. The family of Mr James appears to have been held in special regard.  We do not know the reason for her unusual name, but when Purdon Crew died at 20, only a few months after her father, she was described in the Parish Register as "much loved".
We can only wonder about her, her name, short life, and what happened.

Warwick


From: Bruce Callaway
Sent: Oct 17, 2003
Subject: Piddlehinton Burials 1731-1812

Purdon Crew Kellaway and the Kellaways of Piddlehinton. Warwick and Bill you sure have an army of rels in 'them thar hills'! Pat with her Journal article opened up a veritable Pandora's Box into which Warwick had obviously previously dabbled. The link below will take you to most of what y'all have already collected, and quite a bit more besides.

It seems clear to me that the lass with the interesting name was adopted by James and Lucy Kellaway because her mother Mrs. Susanna Crew wife of Andrew Crew Esq. was buried on Nov 7.1752 when young Purdon was only about 8 years old. That aside, you will see there were a number of Kellaway males still being born and buried in Piddlehinton in the 1860's to 1880's though at that time they were referring to 'Rolls' and 'Rose' Piddlehinton??

From the data provided from this link, to-gether with what Warwick and Pat have gathered, I could virtually construct with my program 350 years of undiluted Kellaways! Happy to do it if it would help.

Best wishes
Bruce

http://www.google.com.au/search?q=cache:a03ZIBLhuMwJ:www.dorset-opc.com/PiddlehintonBurs1.htm+%22Purdon+Crew%22&hl=en&ie=UTF-8


From: Warwick Kellaway
Sent: Oct 18, 2003
Subject: Piddlehinton Burials 1731-1812

Hi Bruce

You are on the ball once more.  Must admit that I had forgotten that the local people were working on the Parish Registers/Transcripts.  I had to do it the hard way some 15 years ago.

These were the burials, and there were a lot more in the marriages and christenings.  I already had 19 up to 1802.  The later references would be family members who moved back to the village.

In this regard I think the PH property, or some of it, was later in the hands of the Abbotsbury family.  One of them, John Down Kellaway, was on the 1838 list of voters for Piddlehinton, although may not have lived there.  According to the 1851 census, a farmer aged 71 he had 100 acres at Winterborne Abbas, employing seven people.  At that time Joseph 67, a retired Dairyman, and his wife Jane, were living in a private house in Piddlehinton.  I see he died there in 1875, aged 85.  His wife in 1880, aged 73.  (Incidentally in the 1841 census I found some 103 Kellaways in that part of Dorset alone.  Some definitely my family - with others I am still to discover the actual connection.  I cannot imagine they lived so close together without being somehow related, and suspect 1594 Nicholas was the principal culprit.  Even today, there seem to be more Kellaways in Dorset than anywhere else in the UK.  Rabbits?) One of the Piddlehinton christenings was:    Purdon Crew Kellaway, daughter of James and Lucy, christened 29 April 1744.  It does appear therefore that, forgetting the Purdon, she was at least named after the Crew family. Possibly Lucy was a Crew, although I do note that Andrew was listed as Esq., so the Crew family was of some local importance. I never got James and Lucy's marriage, maybe it was in another village.

Best wishes
Warwick


From: Sherrill Williams
Sent: Oct 24, 2003
Subject: John of Collumpton (more)

While lining up the Simon notes, I ran across another item or two that relate to John of Cullompton.  Recall, from John's will, that John Whiting was one of the feoffees; he died and was replaced by Simon C/K.  Here is the will of the widow of John Whiting [from Somerset Will Abstracts, Rev. Frederick Brown, 1887, 1st Series]:
 
ANN WHITING, widow of John Whiting, of Wood (1), Esq., one of the sisters & heirs of Peter Pauncefoot (2), son & heir to Walter Pauncefoot, esqr.  Will dated Mar. 12, 25 Hen. VIII, proved May 16, 1534.  [14 Hogen]  To be buried at Compton Pauncefoot.  A pair of Vestments to the Ile of St. John, where my husband is buried.  The Brotherhood of St. John in Kentisbere (1), for "Dirge" & "Masse," 3 kine.  My sister Elizabeth Willoughby.  My daughter Isabel A....ford (3).  My brother Robert Willoughby.  My cousin John Willoughby, the King's Chaplain.  My daughter Jane Whiting, the residue of my best smocks, & "the silver cupp that Maister Fitzjames did geve me."  My brother, John Willoughby, clerk.  My daughter Jane Whiting, do (sic) marry with the son & heir of Nicholas Fitzjames.  Humphry Kaynes & Mary his wife.  If Elizabeth Willoughby, my daughter, be married to a gentleman, then &c...  Manors of Compton Pauncefoot & Blackford.
                        <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
    Coles Escheats.  Inq. p. m. at Shafton, Sep. 27, 21 Henry VIII., on the death of John Whiting, of Wood, Devon, died Mar. 15, 20 Henry VIII.  He was son of Robert Whiting, and had brothers George and Christopher Whiting.  He married Ann, daughter of Walter Pauncefoot, and sister of Peter Pauncefoot.  Their children: -
    1. Mary, aged 27, wife of Humphrey Kaynes
    2. Agnes, aged 25, wife of Henry Walrond
    3. Isabella, aged 15
    4. Jane, a Nun at Wilton Abbey
    5. Elizabeth [1st wife of Nicholas Ashford (1564 Vist. of Devon, p. 7; probably a mistake for Isabel, see above)]
    6. Joanna
Footnotes:
(1) Wood is in the parish of Kentisbere, Devon, in which church is the tomb of John Whiting, d. 1529.
(2)  Richard Whiting, the last Abbot of Glastonbury, was probably of this family; he was executed in 1539.
(3)  A(sh)ford
 
In relation to the above, the following item appeared in Somerset & Dorset Notes & Queries, Vol. I, Part 2, 1888-9:
#69.  The Birthplace of Abbot Whiting - I shall be glad if anyone can tell me the birthplace and parentage of Richard Whiting, last abbot of Glastonbury.  He had a brother, Robert, whose daughter, Alice, married Edward Strode (See "Visitation of Somerset, 1623, p. 108).  F. W. Weaver, Milton Clevedon.
                        <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
    Land Owner's Assessment, 1524/5, Cullompton, Devon:
John Kaylway        L 66 2/3
Henry Harward       L  1
Ann Waylsshe       L   2
Henry Drewe          L  2
Nicholas Helman    L  1
 
Land Owners, Browodekelly Parish:
No land owners listed, but
Hugh Calaway   G-2
            <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
    Perhaps we can find a clue somewhere in all this.  I will start posting the Simon items in several posts over the weekend.  I think you will be surprised where the Simons are going to lead us.
    Sherrill

From: Sherrill Williams
Sent: Oct 27, 2003
Subject: Simon/Symon C/K

The Symons are a rather curious lot, just appearing out of the "blue."  But, John C/K of Cullompton called the 1st one "cousin."  This could also mean "nephew."  Whichever, either John had a brother, or his father had a brother.
 
1st Symon:
1531.  Symon received a bequest of 100 pounds to become a merchant in the Staple of Calais. He was also named a "feoffee" after the death of John Whiting. [Will of John C/K of Cullompton]
 
1543/5.  Simon Kayleway assessed @ 15 pounds at Cullompton [Devon Subsidy Rolls]
 
1557.  Symon Kelway (along with William Chaplen & John Pope) was named executor of the will of Lewes Pope of Taunton, Somerset, merchant. Symon was also a witness to this will. [Somerset Wills]
 
1559.  Pardon to Simon Kaylewaye of Columpton, co. Devon, 'merchaunte.'
         Also pardon to George Cokeram of Columpton, co. Devon, 'merchaunte.'
[Pardon Roll, 1 Elizabeth - Part 2. (Supplementary Patent Roll 68.)]
 
1561.  Pardon for Simon Keyllowey and George Cockeram, both of Collompton, co. Devon, 'merchauntes,' for all offenses committed before 1 Dec., 3 Eliz., in respect of carrying money out of the realm contrary to stat. 4 Hen. VII or in respect of customs and subsidies.  [Cal. of Patent Rolls, 3 Elizabeth, Part 2.]
 
At this point it is not quite possible to tell whether the references are for Symon 1 or Symon 2.
 
1569.  Simon K. of Cullompton to provide 7 items ["Book of Geldings, Armour & Weapons, East Division, Devon."]
 
1569.  Simon K. of Cullompton was one of the executors of John Champeney [Uffculme, Devon Wills.]
    The pedigree of Champneys of Yarnscombe, Devon [Visit. of Devon] is quite interesting.  It begins with:
I    Peter Champnes nere Barnstable, d. 10 July 1531 = Julian, d/o ....?  Below their listing is drawn a solid line showing their two sons:
    A.  John Champnes of Ufcolum, Devon, s & h, md Mary, d/o Thos. Tilley of Canington juxta Bridgewater, Som., relicta of John Woodrouff of Ufcolme (she d. 1562 at Uffculme.)
    B.  Anthony Champnes of Barnstable, co. Devon; md. Jane, d/o John Cole of Barnstable.
    Attached to, but drawn to the left of the "solid" line is a "dotted" line, showing a daughter -
    C.  Elizabeth, mar. 28 July 1550 at Uffculme to Thomas Caylway al's Stoford.
    Someone has "handwritten" in by Elizabeth's data:  Jone mar. 25 Jan 1537/8 Lenard Kelway als Stoford.  Boyd's Index has this marriage as Leon Kelway als Stoford and Jane Champeny as occurring at St. Sidwell's Exeter, but our notes from Noel Currer-Briggs gives the marriage as occurring at Uffculme.  The Champneys Pedigree has numerous references to the Uffculme Parish Register.
    It is not precisely clear to me what the "dotted" line leading to daughter, Elizabeth, is suggesting. But, it is clear that she married Thomas Caylway als Stoford. This would be our first solid clue that John C/K of Cullompton comes from the Stoford branch.  The pedigree does not show the Jone/Jane Champneys and Leonard C/K als Stoford connection.  Perhaps she was a sister of Peter Champneys.
 
1569.  Will of Symon Kellwaye of Cullompton, merchant; dated 10 August 1569.
--to be buried in the parish church of Cullompton (if he dies near there)
-- bequests to the maintenance of the church at Cullompton; and to the poor of the parish.
--to every of my servants
--to my sister Richoard Leage of Winkleigh, 3 poundes @ 20 sh. per year.  [Note: the original copy of the will we have clearly has her name as "Richard."]
--to son William, my chest standing in the chamber over the hall.
--my estate to be got in, both that in the parts beyond the seas as that on this side, to be sold to pay debts and legacies.  If not sufficient, then income from "my moiety of the Rectory of Upton weaver als Cullompton" to be used to pay debts and legacies.
--to wife Joan [Johan] a yearly rent of 30 pounds for life, and she to find for my son Simon and such person as from time to time shall be his wife, lodging, meat, drink to be taken with wife Joan at Kingsmill.  If Joan fails that, then her yearly rent to be only 20 pounds.
--to son William a rent of 10 pounds a year for life, and to his wife Wilmot K., a rent of 10 pounds yearly for life; also bequests to their children [not named].
--mentions "the mansion-house wherein I do now inhabit at Kingsmill" in co. of Devon.
--wife Joan & son Simon to be executors.
--Overseers:  George Cockram, Humfrey Parris, John Radcliffe & John Bemer.
No witnesses.
P.C.C.  22 Sheffield
Proved 7 Oct 1569 by Thomas Upton, notary public, procurator of Joan & Simon Kelway.
[Note: the above is from a typed transcript of Symon's will.  We have a copy of the will housed at Somerset Record Office.  I have transcribed that entirely, and will send along a copy shortly.]
    Somehow Symon came into possession of a moiety of the Rectory and vicarage of Collumpton church, which he passed on to his son, Simon.  How did he acquire these?
    Coming soon - Simon 2.
Sherrill

From: Sherrill Williams
Sent: Nov 1, 2003
Subject: Simon 2

I am sending by attached file (which will have been scanned for viruses)about Simon 2. It was difficult to collect all the data, as it is scattered through numerous files. There may still be some bits and pieces around which I will send as they turn up. I know I left out a Court of Request suit whereby Simon the physician sued John Acklande over fees regarding the treatment of Acklande's step-son, John Mallett. Mallett afterwards died and Acklande was not paying for the care Simon provided. I will have to find my
transcription of this suit to get the date.
  The Courtenays once again come into play....as a "friend." We will explore this next, before moving on to later Simons.  I hope something in all this data will provide a clue to the connection of John of Cullompton to the C/K tree.

Attached file:

Symon 2
            As previously stated, it was not possible to perfectly distinguish between the records of Simon 1 and Simon 2, particularly in the period just prior to the death of Symon 1.  The same situation may apply to the records of Symon 2 and Symon 3.

            Another “fact” may be emerging.  The descent of the moiety in the rectory and vicarage of the church at Collumpton may suggest that Simon 1 became the “next male heir” after the death of John and Joan C/K’s son, George.  The following item should confirm that John C/K of Collumpton possessed such rights to the church. 

[Calendar of Patent Rolls, 6 Elizabeth: Part X]

#757.  29 Jan. 1564.  Hertford Castle.   Grant in fee simple to Robert Freke and John Walker of London of the reversions and rents of the lands comprised in leases, with reservations, as follows --

            [There were 7 properties involved; (i) and (ii) concerned lands in Iwerne Courtney.]

(iii)  By patent, 5 June Edw. VI, to John Moore, knight, of the Rectory of Columpton, Co. Devon, late of the Priory of St. Nicholas, Exeter, and late in the tenure of John Colaway alias Keilwaye and afterwards in that of Thomas Warren, for 21 years from Michaelmas then next at a yearly rent of 31l.

            [Following (vii) is the following]:

            Also grant of --(1) the Manor of Iwerne Courtney, late of the said Earl of Devon, and the premises in (i) and (ii) above;  (2) the said Rectory of Upton Wever alias Columpton;  (3) the advowson of the Vicarage of Upton Wever alias Columpton.....and numerous other properties. 

            Finally, to add some additional perspective to this family, the following is of interest:  Devon P.C.C. Wills.

1606.  The last will of Catherine Lady “More” of Cullompton, dated 26th April 1606.  Desires to be buried in the parish church, and leaves for the reparation thereof 10s., and to the poor 6s. 3d.  To Robert Denys 10s.

            Residue to my servants, “Mr. Thomas Tryslade and Mrs. Shepherd,” who are sole executors.

Proved June 1606.

Note:  The personal effects of Testator were valued at L21. 6s. 1d., inclusive of two horses and a mare, which were valued at L5.  She was the widow of Sir John Moore of Moorhays, and the daughter of Sir Thomas Pomeroy of Berry, by Jane, daughter of Sir Piers Edgcombe. 

1588.  [The Parliamentary Representation of Devon & Dorset, 1559-1661, by Roberts, John Charles, May 1958 (a thesis submitted for the Degree of Master of Arts in the University of London.]  (Devon & Cornwall Record Society-Q; copy located in D & C RS collection, West Country Studies Library, Exeter, Devon).

Kelway, Simon (d. c1624) of Cullompton -   Totnes  1588

            S. & h. of Simon Kelway, merchant of Cullompton, and Joan, a. of............ Prob. grandson of John Kelloway, merchant of the Staple of Calais. (!)  Other branches of the family lived in Dorset and Gloucestershire; and perhaps also in West Devon (Kelly) [Vivian 510-512].  The Kelways were related to the Grenvilles, Drakes, Wadhams and Courtenays.  By his first mar. before 1580, the M.P. had a son Francis.  Mar. 2ndly Edith widow of John Antony, at Exeter in 1598 [Devon Notes & Queries, x-321] and 3rdly Mary, da. of..........

            Giles Kelway of Stroud, Gloucestershire [?Somerset.?......SUW], bought a Launceston rectory which was leased to Sir Gawen Carew whose friend Sir John More, in 1559, granted the parsonage of Cullompton to Simon Kelway the elder, who regranted it [Act Book of Bishop of Exeter 1555-1564 f 42 (at Dioc. Registry)];  in that year this Kelway and George Cockeram, of Cullompton, appear together on a Pardon Roll; two years later they were granted a pardon for carrying money out of the realm.  When the elder Simon made his will in 1569 he described himself as a trader in overseas parts.  He left bequests to the church, the poor and to servants.  He had a sister, a married son William and left his widow and his son Simon to be executors.

            By the will Simon Kelway was to give a bond in L300 to pay an annuity to his mother, and another in 1,000 marks to pay another to his brother William, and his children, if any.  Joan Kelway, who was granted for life a manor-house at Kingsmill, was to “supporte, beare and fynde....competent meate, drinke, howse roome and lodging” there for her son Simon and any wife of his.

            The M.P. inherited the rectory and parsonage of Cullompton and some trouble with it.  Sir John More, an unquiet man, brought a Chancery case against George Cockeram and Joan Kelway about some timber that her husband had sold him [Eliz. Chanc. ii 246]; and she with her son, brought another Chancery action, about the Vicarage, against Laurence Tilliard.  In 1584 the M.P. bought out Robert Freke and another London speculator who then held a part-share in the Rectory; two years later he sold it to William Every of Chard for L1,000.  In 1573 Kelway and Cockeram had been noted as patrons of the living, and Kelway was still patron in 1601 [Oliver, Ecclesiastical Antiquities, i-115].

            There are few signs of the M.P.’s activities locally, although he was assessed to provide two light horses for musters in Hayridge Hundred in 1583 [S.P. 12/162/36].  In 1598 he sent his son Francis to Oxford [Al. Ox. 1500-1714, p. 840];  and a few years later, when he and other Cullompton men sold a messuage for L80 one witness was Robert Cockram, perhaps a son of his old friend [E. S. Chalke, Kentisbere Hundred (1934), p. 24].  Three years later there is a mention of John, son of Simon Kelway, a son who does not appear in the M.P.’s will.

            By 1623, when he came to make his will, the M. P. was living at Dawlish, where he asked to be buried; but he left L10 to the church at Cullompton.  He made provision for a former servant, John Thomas, who was a surgeon, and now served William Every, the purchaser of the rectory: Every having a house on condition that he looked after his servant.  The M. P. himself had a considerable interest in surgery and medicine, for he left half his instruments and drugs to John Thomas, and the remainder, together with his French books on these subjects, to his son Francis Kelway.  His armour and pistols were to be divided between his friend Sir William Courtenay and his son Francis Courtenay. 

1593.  [Somerset & Dorset Notes & Queries, Vol. 13 (1913), p. 217.

            Simon Kellwaye, in 1593, wrote the earliest systemic essay on smallpox & refers to the abundant late experience, as well his own as others (Creighton, ‘History of Epidemics in England’). 

1596/97.  [Will of John Gregory of Uffcolme, Devon] -  Simon Kellway of Collumpton to “keep” the son of John Gregory. 

1601.  Simon Keleway, gent. - Patron of Cullompton. 

1603/04.  Bill of Adventure [Copy from Dorset Record Office: DI: 10, 939]

     Mr. Davidge and Mr. Woodroff bill of adventure 20 March 1613 -

“Be it knowen unto all men by these p’sents that wee Lawrence Davidge of Waymouth Melcombe Rege in the county of Dorset marchaunt and Jespar Wardroffe of the county of Somerset merchaunt Being bound.........in a trade of merchandise for the West Indies and Islands of the same in a good shipp called the Edward of Waymouth and Melcombe Rege. aforesaid have receaved of Symon Kelway of Cullompton in the countie of Devon gent. thirtene poundes of lawfull Englyshe money as an adventure in the saide voage which the saide Lawrence davidge and Jespar Woodroffe and others of us doe by theis p’sent bynd ourselves our executors and administrators and the executors and administrators of others of us to geve a true account, and del’d into the hands of the said Symon Kelwaie his executors and administrators all profitts, etc.  whatsoever, as the said voage shall anywaie bring or assure rateable according to his said adventure and as farr forth as any other adventurer whatsoever to be delivered unto the saide Symon Kelway his executors, etc... by us the said Lawrence Davidge and Jespar Woodroffe and the executors and administrators of other of us, In witness whereof we have hereunto sett our hand & seals and delivered it as our deed the 15th daie of Februarie in the first yeare of the Raigne of our Soveraigne lord Kinge James of England France and Ireland and of Scotland the seven & thirteth.                      (s)  La: Davidge

                                                                            Jespar Woodroff

Signed sealed & del.

in the presence of

Fransys Kelwaye, John Evanes

            ......that the moytie of this bill with such profitts, etc...............delivered unto me.............who hathe payde me the on[e] halfe of the adventure the 7 of aprill 1604 -

                                                                        (s)  Sym: Kellwaye 

1604.  Bond [Copy from Dorset Record Office: D-1: 10, 937]

            Obligation of Morgan Moone of Bridpord in co. Dorset due to Symon Kellway gent of Kingsmill.

            [The “bill” is in Latin]

The condition of this present obligation is such that if for abovenamed bounden Morgan Moone his executors administrators or assignes doe paye or cause to be payde unto the abovenamed Symon Kellwaye his executors administrators & assigns the full & just summe of fower pounds ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ of current Englishe moneye at one whole entire payement at or upon the last daye of December next ensuing the date hereof, at or in the mansion & now dwelling house of the above sayde Symon Kellwaye at Kingsmill that then this obligation to be void & no effect........................

                                                                                    per me  Morgan Moone

Wits:  Fransys Kelway, John Evanes 

1622/23.  Will of Simon Kelway of Dawlish, Gent.    P.C.C. 63 Swann

            Will dated 26 Feb’y. 1622/3.  Proved 14 June 1623 by William Every: oath coram Johanne Bury Rectore de Kittesford. 

To be buried in the parish church of Dawlish in the North Aisle where I usually sit. 

To the reparacon thereof 6/8. 

To the Vicar & churchwardens of Cullompton L10 upon good security to be given by them to Robert Northeligh of Alsington Gent;  William Sumpter of Cullompton Merchant & their heirs to be lent to 10 poor people yearly. 

To my wife Mary Kelway, one feather bed performed where she now lieth &c. 

To William Every of Cotthay co. Somerset Esqre., all the right which I have in the house in the east end of the parish church of Cullompton & 3 closes of land called Croochetts Hams now in the occupation of Mary Wood widow of Humfrey Wood, blacksmith, dec’d, on condition that he allows an estate which I have heretofore made unto my late servant John Thomas of Northam chirurgion, for 99 years on lives of him the said John Thomas, Thomas Leigh & George Gifford as by my deed dated 10 Aug last past appeareth. 

To my honorable friend Sr. William Courtenay Kt. my horseman’s armour & case of pistols & Spanish Pike. 

To Francis Courtenay Esqure., my plate doublet or armour of proof, & my holbeard, for a memorial of me. 

To Richard Carpenter clerk now Vicar of Cullompton my book of Juell & Harding.  

To John Marker clerk now vicar of Dawlish 40/- to be bestowed in some good books of religion, also one birding-piece. 

To my son Francis Kelway, all my French books of Physic & Chirurgery & the books called Pigo & Galls works & one book of Arrens Works & one book called Clowes works of Chirurgery & one book called the Method of Physic & half of my instruments, waters, compositions & drugs. 

To William Sumpter of Cullompton my black cloak lined with black coney fur. 

To my late servant John Thomas of Northam Chirurgion all my books of Physic & Chirurgery which are in English except those given to my son, also the other half of my instruments &c., & my jerkin & breeches of wrought velvet & my black satine doublet thereunto belonging. 

To my son-in-law [stepson, here]Edward Anthony of Exon Goldsmith my black gown faced before with black velvet. 

To the preacher that shall make a funeral sermon for me, one book called Phitarch’s Morals. 

To my son Francis Kelway, the residue of my apparel 

To Mr. Anthony Salter of Exon, Apothecary, L10. 

To my old friend Thomas Moore of London Draper 40/- for a gold ring. 

To each of my late wife’s children which she had by her former husband John Anthony, 40/- for gold rings. 

To my old servant John Roxter 40/- 

To my old servants which shall be in covenant with me at my death 10/- apiece. 

Residue to William Every of Cotthaie co. Somerset Esqre. whom I make my exor. 

Overseers:  my good friends Robert Northeligh & William Sumpter of Cullompton Merchant.   

Testators:  Robert Northleigh, Johannes Marker, John Thomas, Richard Hingstone. 

            So, who is Sir William Courtenay & son, Francis?  Simon calls him “friend” in his will.  Sir William has an interesting biography which I will share with you in my next posting.  Perhaps that will provide additional perspective regarding this family. 

SUW


From: Sherrill Williams
Sent:
Nov 2, 2003
Subject:
Simon (last) - Courtenay (first)

1588.  Court of Requests - REQ 2/230/9 [from PRO]
This case played out into the 1590's with the complaint, then answers and demurrers, but no verdict in the file. This is a synopsis of the case.
    On 1 June 1788, Simon Kelwaye of Culompton, Devon, gent. filed a complaint against John Acklande of Collaine John, Devon esq. [can't imagine what the scribe heard; Colyton, maybe?].  Acklande had approached Simon and requested that he attempt to effect a cure of his son-in-law[step-son, here] John Mallett's serious illness.  Simon agreed to accept John Mallett and "his man" at his house in Cullompton, to provide both with lodging, food & drink and to treat John Mallett for his illness with Simon's "paynes and skyll."  Simon stated that John Acklande "was a man of worth and of good calling" but John Mallett and his man were "both meere strangers" to him.  He did not doubt Acklande's ability and willingness to pay for the services to be rendered.  Simon treated John Mallett for nine weekes and cured him of the disease, and submitted his bill for all the services provided.  Mallett was apparently a minor during this illness.  Sometime later, "when in his age," John Mallett died.  When he came to "his age" Mallett apparently received his inheritance and John Acklande, having married Mallett's mother, no laonger had charge of Mallett's funds.  The gist is that Simon had submitted a bill for medical services, etc. provided for John Mallett to Acklande who had neglected to pay.
    It seems that our Simon "the barber" had advanced in his profession, by use of his French & English medical books, and also operated a "hospital" in his house.  Whatta' guy, our Simon!
   
    Simon's friendship with Sir William Courtenay and his son Francis, as noted by bequests in his will, is of interest.  Our friend, John Roberts, who wrote his thesis on the M. P. 's from Devon & Dorset, became fascinated with this Sir William Courtenay and published an extended biography about him.  It is lengthy and will take several posts, but it gives a lot of perspective on the times in which these people lived, and of Courtenays relatives and friends.
    Before that, I am providing an outline of Sir William's lineage from the Visitations of Devon, beginning with his father.
  I   Sir William Courtenay of Powderham, heir to his grandfather (Sir William Courtenay of Powderham & wife, Margaret Edgecombe), aged 6 years & more 1535; killed at seige of St. Quentin, 1557; next heir to the Earldom of Devon on the death of Edward Courtenay, 1556; married Elizabeth, d/o John Poulet, Marquis of Winton (she md. 2 Sir Henry Oughtred, Kt.).
II   Sir William Courtenay, Kt. of Powderham, Shff. of Devon 1581; d. 24 June 1630, aged 77; buried at Powderham; md. (1) Elizabeth, d/o Henry Manners, Erle of Rutlant, Kt; (2) Elizabeth, d/o Sir George Sidenham of Combe Sidenham, Som.; (3) Jane, d/o Robert Hill of Yarde juxta Taunton, Som. [she was widow of Thomas Bruarton, MP from Exeter -- [here come my Breretons again].  Sir William's children were by his first wife, Elizabeth Manners.
    A.  Margaret (1 da.) md. (1) Sir Warwick Hele of Wenbury; (2) Sir John Chudleigh, Kt.
    B.  Bridget (2 da.) md. Sir John Fites of Fites Ford, Devon; they had a dau. Mary md (1) Sir Allen Percy; (2) Sir Thomas Drecy, heir of Lord Darcy; (3) Charles Howard, s/o ye Erle of Suffolk.
    C.  Elizabeth (3 da.) md. Sir William Wrey of Trebeigh, co. Cornwall; they had a child, William Wrey.
    D.  Sir William Courtenay - fil primogenitus o.b. sine prole
    E.  Francis Courtenay 2 filius et haeres aet 44 Anno. 1520; age 54 at father's death; buried June 1633, Powderham; md. (1) Mary, d/o Sir William Poole, relicta of Hurst, no children; md. (2) Elizabeth, d/o Sir Edward Seymour (she was admr. of husband's estate during minority of children; she md. (2) Sir Amos Meredith.  The children of Francis Courtenay (by Eliz. Seymour) were:
        1.  Elizabeth (only da.) - named in father's will
        2.  Edward (2 son) - bapt. 1631, Powderham
        3.  James - of Tavistock (4 son); bapt. 18 Jan 1635 at Powderham; d. 1674, then about to proceed to Ireland.
        4.  Francis (3 son); bapt 14 July 1633 at Powderham; md. d/o Major John Webb of Exeter, 1657/8 [this line is continued]
        5.  Sir William of Powderham; d. Aug 1702; buried at Wolborough; created a baronet but never took up patent; md. Margaret, d/o Sir William Waller, Kt.  [this line is continued]
        6.  Thomas (3 son); md. Eleanor, d/o Thomas Brereton of Yarde, Som [my Breretons again!];  Children:
            a.  William Courtenay, aged 9 in 1620; md. Mary d/o Sir Edward Mansfield.
            b.  Jane, age 11 in 1620
        7.  George (4 son) - md. Katherine, d/o Francisci Berkley de Asketon in Hibernia.  Children:
            a.  William - age 4 in 1620; ob s.p.
            b.  Morris - age 2 in 1620; ob s.p.

From: Sherrill Williams
Sent: Nov 5, 2003
Subject: John of Cullompton & the Simons (final comments)

1.  My comment within John Robert's Notabel Devon Knight was incorrect.  Sir William (the notable knight) was indeed son of another Sir William; his grandfather was George Courtenay.
 
2.  I scanned through the lengthy Courtenay pedigree for possible C/K connections - there are a lot of unattached daughters over the years.  We may have married one of them.
    However, if "Musbury" is the same as "Muxbere" then we have known the Courtenays for a long time.
    Sir William Courtenay de Musbury (2 son); Knight of the Shire for Devon, 42 Henry III = married Joan, d/o Thomas Basset, and brought with her Coliton & Whitford, co. Devon. Had no issue.
    Sir William's brother, John de Courtenay, Baron of Okehampton; d. 3 May 1273; buried Forde Abbey; married Isabella, d/o Hugh de Vere, Earl of Oxford.  They had several children.  Among them:
        Aveline Courtenay md. Sir John Giffard, Kt.
        Isabell Courtenay md. John, Lord St. John
 
3.  Simon Kelway's family continued at Cullompton (parish registers):
1628.  Francis Kelway md. Silvester Colfree, June 24.
1630.  Simon, s/o Mr. Francis Kelway bapt. July 25.
1635.  Simon, s/o William Kelway bapt. June 21.
1638.  Hanna, d/o William & Elizabeth Kelway bapt. Sept 3.
    The later parish registers were not checked.  The years of declining "fortunes" and the upheaval of the Civil War years were approaching. It is quite probable, though, that descendants of old Simon are walking around today.
 
John C/K of Cullompton
    It seems apparent that John comes from the Stoford/Stafford connection.  John had property at Uffculme, Devon.  The parish registers there reveal:
Leonard Kelway (alias Stoford) md. Jone Champeny, 23 Jan 1547.
Thomas Callawaye (or Stofford) md. Elizabeth Champenye, 28 July 1549.
[Leonard & Jone do not appear on the Champeny pedigree.]
    The "straight line" Stoford/Stafford pedigree and the accompanying C/K "straight line" pedigree are less than helpful in this matter.  It is also difficult to judge a birth year for John.  Perhaps on one side or the other of 1470 would be an acceptable estimate.  Also, the selection of the name "George" for his only son is curious.  George, used as a C/K name, was not common in our early C/K records.
    John of Cullompton either had a brother, or an uncle, depending on whether old Symon was actually a "cossin" or a "nephew."  Could his name have been William, a name of prominence in the Simon families?  I think we have confirmed Warwick's original conclusion that John of Cullompton came from the Stoford branch of the family.  At some, not yet clearly defined generation, some of the family became Stoford/Stafford while others of the same generation retained their C/K name.
    Since John of Cullompton apparently left no male heirs he seems to be a dead-end for our purposes.  However, he is useful in making the link to Simon's ancestry from whom there may be living heirs.  The use of the name "Francis" in the Simon family probably came from Francis Courtenay.
    Over the past weekend I did a Google search on "Simon Kelway."  A few surprises resulted.  There is a current Simon Kelway - in Angers, France.  You can see about him at <http:www.utc.fr/~untele/abst_2002.kelway.html>
    The other "hit" I don't put much faith in, but interesting -
No dates -  Simon Codrington married "Mary Kelway of Tregarthen" - had children (1) Simon Codrington md. Agnes Seacole; (2) Ann Codrington md. Robert Isaac.
    The above is from
<http:www.uk-genealogy.org.uk/
                                        Database/D0029/19120.html>
 
    Another Simon Kellway turns up at Clayhidon, Devon.  His father's will turned up in the "Miss Olive Moger Collection" at Exeter.  The will is not complete, and does not mention Simon.  A Chancery case names the other children of Henry Kellaway of Clayhidon.
 
Will of henry Kellaway of Clayhidon (transcription and abstract by Miss Olive Moger):
w.d.  26 June 1607; w.p. 5 Dec 1617 [prob should be 1607]
Adm. granted to Joane K, the relict
-to be buried in churchyard of Cleyhidon
-William Kellaway my son shall have an estate in reversion of Robert Towker (or Towler) for term of his life by copy of court roll according to custom of the manor of Churchstaunton in all those 2 tenements and half which said Robert [Towker/Towler] now holds in Churchtaunton.
-George Kellway my son shall have the like estate in reversion for the term of his life by copy of court roll in those 2 tenements now enjoyed by John Jesse & his mother with close called Downelands being now in my own hands and parcel of the same 2 tenements, but George shall not have the occupation of same til he is 21.
-Likewise Will: shall not have the occupation until 21 but same shall be enjoyed during their minorities by my executrix........(will is unfinished)...........
 
Bond of Joanne Kellway of Cleyhidon, widow & William Ley of Cleyhidon, Clk.   5 Dec.  15 Jas. I
 
Inventory by Peter Holle, William Decon, Nicholas Bradforde & Geo. Sumerhaies.  13 July 1607:
    1 cupboard in his house at Herioke
    farm stock
    a chattel lease of a tenement in Hemiok for a term of years determinable upon lives----Total  L235.17s.8d.
 
Henry Perse of Churchtaunton owed by bill L5.
[Archd. of Exeter]
 
The Chancery case was provided by Noel Currer-Briggs in 1980.
C3. Charles I.  K22/60.  25 June 1625.  Bill of Complaint of William Kellway of Churchtaunton, Devonshire, by Johan Kellway his mother and guardian.  [Note: This document was practically illegible, and only part of it was decipherable.]
Whereas henry Kellway of Cleyhidon, Devonshire, father of the plaintiff, owned the manor of Churchtaunton by an Indenture dated 1 November 43 Elizabeth.  He made his will on 26 June 1607 and bequeathed to his son William the reversion of Robert Towler for the term of his life by copy of Court Roll a certain tenement etc. in Churchtaunton which the said Robert and his mother then held.  Henry Kellaway charged Henry Kellaway his son and heir apparent the eldest brother of the plaintiff and Simon Kellway the now defendant that Nicholas Kellway should suffer his brother to enjoy the same.  [The rest of the Bill is illegible, but the answer of Simon Kellway on 6 October 1625 fills in the gaps.]
 
Simon Kellway believes that Henry Kellway the father was not lawfully seized of an estate of inheritance in the manor of Churchtaunton as is alleged, nor has he heard of a tripartite Indenture dated 1 November 43 Elizabeth by which his father Henry Kellway claimed the manor as the Bill suggests.  He believes his father did not make a will bequeathing William his son, plaintiff, the reversion of Robert Towler and the two tenements in which Robert Towler and his mother live.  Simon believes that his mother immediately after the death of his father, Henry Kellway, obtained administration of her husband's goods, and the defendant Simon being about 15 years at the time.  He has not hitherto heard of any charge or command whereby Henry should enjoin Nicholas Kellway his elder brother to be the heir to his father or this defendant Simon, or that he should suffer his brothers quietly to enjoy any reversion by any will of his father given unto them, so there was no reason why Nicholas surviving his father should promise to do the same.  He does not know whether Nicholas being in age at the time of his death and having no right to the manor as Simon believes did enter the said manor or not.  Nicholas fell sick soon after his father's death and died himself but did not leave Simon any charge concerning his father's will.  His father left about L40 which went to his mother as Administratrix.  Florence late wife of Robert Towler had 3 tenements in the manor during her widowhood which she held of Sir Francis Popham, Kt., Lord of the manor.  This defendant enjoys them now by virtue of a bond made by Florence for which he paid her a consideration and he has no power to grant a copyhold lease of them to the plaintiff because the same is another man's inheritance.  He denies that he has made any similar settlement to his brother George Kellway.  About 8 years ago Simon's mother being the owner of a tenement called Woodeave in the parish of Clayhidon, Devonshire, asked him to buy it from her for L55.
 
So, Henry & Johan Kellway had 4 sons:
1.  Henry (the eldest)
2.  William
3.  Nicholas
4.  Simon.
 
    Whether Henry Kellway was related to our "other" Simons is not clear.  But he did for some reason use the name for his own son.
 
    The Parish Registers for Clayhidon begins in 1637.  It does appear that at least some of the family was still there:
Fiche #1 - Baptisms
Dorothye, d/o Willm Kelway bapt. 25 Apr. 1655
Alice, d/o Willm. Kelway bapt 26 Aug 1656
Wilmote, d/o Thom: Calway bapt 3 Nov 1656
William, s/o William Kellway bapt. 9 March 1665
Thomas, s/o Thomas Callo & w. Eliz. bapt 24 Nov 1668
 
Fiche #2 - Marriages
William Kelwaye & Alice Broom md. 26 Sept 1649
Edward Kern & Alice Kellway - pub. in par. of Pitminster [Somerset] of which Edward Kern of which Edward Kern brought certificate from "Ptr" of his publishing in that par.  & Alice Kellway one of Clayhidon were married 7 Decr. 1701
            Burials
Thomas Kelway, s/o Simon buried 31 August 1641
Johan Kelway widdow buried 12 April 1643
Elizabeth Kelway "virgo" buried 17 May 1643
Nicholas Callow junior buried 9 Sept 1644
Widdow Callow was buried 11 Sept 1645
Simon, s/o Simon Kelway buried 15 Feb 1650
 
Fiche #3 - Burials
Simon Kellway buried 25 July 1658
Thomas, s/o Thos Callow & w. Eliz. buried 29 Dec 1668
Nicholas Callo buried 22 Jan 1670
Cecilia Callo buried 28 April 1672
Alice Kellway widdow buried 21 Sept 1679
Willmouth Callow widdow buried 16 Nov 1679
Simon, s/o William Kelway buried 4 June 1704
Tho. Callow buried 2 Sept 1711
William Kelway buried 2 Dec 1711.

From: Bill Piper
Sent: Nov 9, 2003
Subject: village called Chailloué

Phil Caillouet has pointed out that there is a village called Chailloué just north of Sées, Orne. (Sées is 21 Km north of Alençon on the N138. Chailloué is a hamlet about 4 Km further north. It is therefore about 100
KM south-west of Caillouet). I have had to point out that the pronunciation is undoubtedly /shy-oo-way/.
Nevertheless, it's another interesting possibility.
Bill


From: Warwick Kellaway
Sent: Nov 9, 2003
Subject: village called Chailloué

Hi Bill

The French website I referred to recently gave only one Caillouet in description, in the north east, although their old map did show "ours", where we recognise it.  I also recall some time ago finding listed French arms from that area of France. One of the main points, with regard to other locations, would be how old they are.  Apart from any other likely relevance. I still see the proximity to Cailli-sur-Eure as being the confirmation that it is the right area.

In England of course, we have discovered a number of places with C/K name relevance/spelling.  In those cases they were obviously locations where someone from the family lived quite early.  My suggestion is that, apart from the French placenames deriving from stoney places or similar, it is just as likely that another French cousin was there as well.  I guess we should remember that it is probable that only one or two crossed the Channel, the others presumably remained in France, where some descendants are today.

Regards
Warwick


From: Sherrill Williams
Sent: Nov 12, 2003
Subject: Dorset References

DORSET RECORD OFFICE
 
Stour Provost Parish - Marriage Licences:
Marriage Licence granted to Thomas Kelway of Stour Provost, schoolmaster & Mary Ann Moor of Fifehead Magdalen, 20 Sept 1876.
Ref:  PE/SPV/IN 1/1/6
 
Fifehead Magdalen Anglican Parish
Register containing Christenings, Marriages, Burials, 1563/4 - 1583/4.  [Inside the front cover: a memorandum on the Roman censuses and the institution of registers of baptism, marriage and birth in France and England n.d. [c. 1564/5] and a memorandum of the institution and subscription to the Articles of the Church of England for Jos Kelway alias Clarke as vicar 8 Jul/Aug 1613.
Ref.  PE/FIM/RE 1/1
 
Shipton Gorge Parish
Surveyors of the Highways - Accounts
Account Book, 1797-1836 (At the back: notice from surveyors to Joseph Kellaway or responsibility to repair Common Lane; undated.
Ref:  PE/SHG/SU 1/1
 
Melcombe Horsey Parish, alias Melcombe Bingham
Marriage Licences:
Marriage licence granted to Joseph Rolls of Melcombe and Ann Kellaway of Melcombe, 1854.
Ref:  PE/MCH/IN 1/1/8
 
Corscombe Parish
Overseers of the Poor
Apprenticeship Indentures: Ann Taylor to Thomas Kellaway, yeoman; 31 Oct 1795
Ref:  PE/COR/OV 5/1/49
 
Blandford Forum Parish
Overseers of the Poor
(1)  Settlement Certificates:  Francis Kellaway and Mary his wife, 5 Nov 1726.
Ref:  PE/BF/OV 5/1/18
 
(2)  Apprenticeship Indentures: Rebecca Osmond to John Kellaway of Iwerne Courtney, dairyman, 14 Sept 1774.
Ref:  PE/BF/OV 6/1/25
 
Cerne Abbas Parish
Overseers of the Poor (Settlement and removal papers)
Removal Orders from Cerne Abbas:
Charles Kellaway, Joanna his wife and George, James, Mary Ann, Charles, Priscilla, Susan, John, Richard, Ellen and Hannah their children to East Lulworth, 6 May 1829.
Ref:  PE/CEA/OV 3/3/35
 
Solicitor's bill of costs in removal of Charles Kellaway and family from Cerne Abbas, Jul 1829.
Ref:  PE/CEA/OV 3/3/36
 
Confirmation of an order for the removal of Charles Kellaway, Joanna his wife and George, James, Mary Ann, Charles, Priscilla, Susan, John, Richard, Ellen and Hannah their children to East Lulworth, 14 Jul 1829.
Ref:  PE/CEA/OV 3/3/37
 
Sarah Kellaway, singlewoman to Godmanstone, 17 Jul 1833.
Ref:  PE/CEA/OV 3/3/41
 
Removal Orders to Cerne Abbas:
George Kellaway, labourer and June his wife from East Lulworth, 22 Jan 1831
Ref: PE/CEA/OV 3/4/55
 
Bastardy Papers:
Josiah Westlake of Martock, Somerset, teacher of dancing; Sarah Kellaway, 1 Oct 1828
Ref:  PE/CEA/OV 5/2/12
 
Sherborne Parish
Overseers of the Poor
Bastardy Papers:  Edith Barley; Thomas Kellaway, 11 March 1776.
Ref:  PE/SH/OV 2/63
 
Apprenticeship Indentures
Elizabeth Kellaway to Esau Whitehead, carrier, 10 July 1738.
Ref:  PE/SH/OV 3/21
 
Foster's Boys School, Sherborne
Property - Deeds  (Sandford Orcas)
1561-1812.  Kaylewey/Kellway, Martin, Masters, Newman, Fudge, Morris, Dove, Lokyer, Sealy, Daye, Sansome, Hodges, Beaton, Russ, Bernard, Prankard, Staveley, Hosey, Hellyar, Ridout, Jeffery [last 3 as churchwadens of Sherborne for time being], Down; the same with Boys Hill in Haydon, Fudges leaze and Crib House field in Thornford (Governors of Foster's School, Andrews) 1886 [Boys Hill described in this deed as in Bishops Caundle, but is detached part of Haydon], etc...................
Ref:  S.87A/8/2
 
DEVON RECORD OFFICE
 
Clayhidon Parish
Overseers of the Poor
Apprenticeship Indentures:
(1)  Simon Kelway apprenticed to John Hurford for Bollam estate by consent, 1769.
Ref:  1061A/PO 500
(2)  Mary Kelway apprenticed to Thomas Every for Burcombe estate by consent, 1773.
Ref:  1061A/PO 516
(3)  Joan Kelway apprenticed to Elizabeth Richards for Lillycombe estate by consent, 1775
Ref:  1061A/PO/525
(4)  Simon Kellway apprenticed to Nicholas [John crossed through] Tucker for his estate called Higher Midelton, 1712
Ref: 1061A/PO 355
 
Drewsteignton Parish
Overseers of the Poor:
Settlement Files - Richard Callaway, Mary Ann his wife, Mary, William, Ann, Jane and Thomas  their children from Plymouth St. Andrew, 1842.
Ref:  2165 A/PO 619-622
 
Apprenticeship Indentures -
John Callaway apprenticed to Mark Cann for Davyland estate, 1766.
Ref:  2165 A/PO 765
William Callaway apprenticed to James Heale for Mill Tenement, 1775
Ref:  2165 A/PO 790
John Callaway apprenticed to Richard Lambert by consent, 1780
Ref:  2165 A/PO 806
Susannah Kellaway apprenticed to William Endicott for Wisdom, 1773
Ref:  2165 A/PO 780
Joan Kellaway apprenticed to William Harris for Cox Park, 1773
Ref: 2165 A/PO 781
Samuel Kellaway apprenticed to John Bragg for part of West Underdown, 1773.
Ref:  2165 A/PO 783
James Kellaway apprenticed to William Hamlyn for Stone, 1774.
Ref:  2165 A/PO 787
George Kellaway apprenticed to William Pedlar for Martin tenement, 1793.
Ref:  2165 A/PO 876
Mary Kellaway apprenticed to William Cann of Spreyton for Teignholt, 1796.
Ref:  2165 A/PO 913
John Kellaway apprenticed to Robert Kenshole for Woodgreen, 1798.
Ref:  2165 A/PO 913.
James Kelloway apprenticed to William Ponsford, junior, for Drewston, 1793.
Ref:  2165 A/PO 875
 
Binding Orders and Indentures
Thomas Callaway, 14, apprenticed to Mr. James Pitts, for Veet messuage, 1825.
Ref:  2165 A/PO 1076
 
Richard Kellaway, 13, apprenticed to William Slocombe, farmer, for Wood Park, 1819.
Ref:  2165 A/PO 1021
Spreyton Parish
Overseers of the Poor
Apprenticeship:
Robert Kellaway apprenticed to Andrew Battishill for Rugrow, Husbandry, Spreyton, 1741.
Ref:  6143E/PO2/8
Alice Kellaway apprenticed to Joan Cann for Park, Housewifery, Spreyton, 1742.
Ref: 6143E/PO2/11
Anne Kellaway apprenticed to Richard Stephens, Housewifery, Spreyton, 1765.
Ref:  6143E/PO2/31
Elizabeth Kellaway apprenticed to Thomas Cobley for Bobeer estate, Husbandry, Spreyton, 1769.
Ref: 6143E/PO2/41
Mary Kellaway apprenticed to Richard Browning for Southbeer, Housewifery, Spreyton, 1774.
Ref: 6143E/PO2/58
Elizabeth Kellaway apprenticed to William Ford of Drewsteignton for North Beer, Housewifery, Drewsteignton, 1774.
Ref: 6143E/PO2/59
Robert Kellaway apprenticed to Henry Shilstone for his estate called Week, Husbandry, Spreyton, 1784.
Ref: 6143E/PO2/82
Elizabeth Kellaway apprenticed to John Fletcher for Little Bigbeer, Housewifery, Spreyton, 1786.
Ref: 6143E/PO2/87
Ann Kellaway apprenticed to William Battishall for South Begbeer, Housewifery, Spreyton, 1793.
Ref:  6143E/PO2/108
William Kellaway apprenticed to William Battishill for Week, Husbandry, Spreyton, 1809.
Ref: 6143E/PO2/129.
John Calloway apprenticed to Samuel Gidley for Bigbeare, yeoman, Husbandry, Spreyton, 1748.
Ref:  6143E/PO2/16.
 
Sampford Peverell Parish
Overseers - Removal Orders:
Ann Calloway, wife of William Calloway and Sarah aged about 3 and Jane aged about 10 months, her daughters, from Sampford Peverell to Burlescombe, 1794.
Ref: 1198A-1/PO 64.
Settlement Examinations:
Joan, wife of Edward Calloway, 1792.
Ref: 1198A-1/PO 101/1
 
Dodbrooke Parish
Overseers of the Poor
Settlement Examinations:
Robert Kelway, Cornish militia man, 1798
Ref: 5721 A/PO 90
 
Uplyme Parish
Overseers of the Poor
Removal Orders:  George Kellaway from Bishop's Caundle, Dorset to Uplyme, 1801.
Ref: 3030A/PO 19/1
 
Sandford Parish
Overseers
Apprenticeship:  Indentures and related papers -
(1) Ann Kellaway, 12, daughter of Robert and Mary apprenticed to Robert Kelland, yeoman, 1834.
Ref:  1238A/PO 611
(2) William Kellaway, 9, son of Robert and Mary apprenticed to William Partridge, yeoman, 1834.
Ref: 1238A/PO 611
Settlements - Examinations:
Robert Kellaway, labourer, 1828
Ref: 1238A/PO 847
 
County of Devon - Quarter Sessions
Victuallers Recognizances
Hartland:
John Kellaway, Hoops, 1825
Ref: QS/63/5/05/003
John Kellaway, Hoops, 1826
Ref:  QS/63/4/10/035
John Kellaway, Hoops, 1827
Ref:  QS/63/7/08/035
John Kellaway, Hoops, 1828
Ref:  QS/63/6/04/022
Tavistock
Henry Kellaway Colling, Jolly Farmer, 1825
Ref:  QS/63/5/11/031
Henry Kellaway Colling, Jolly Farmer, 1826
Ref: QS/63/4/13/002
 
Cullompton Parish
Overseers
Apprenticeship Indentures:
John Till apprenticed to Peter Callway for the late Mrs. Helmores estate by consent, 1736.
Ref: 2404A/PO 90/5
Settlement Certificates:
Edward Callway, currier and Elizabeth his wife, Wellington, Somerset, 1705.
Ref: 2404A/PO 194/12
 
PLYMOUTH AND WEST DEVON RECORD OFFICE
 
Charles Parish, Plymouth
Schools - Charles C of E School, Tavistock Place
Deeds ot Title:  1. Henry Kellway, gent., 1738.
Ref: 258/80
 
Portsmouth Quarters Sessions
Sessions Books, Easter 1803-July 1804.
Inscribed 'Kept by R. Calloway' (Clerk of the Peace)
Ref:  S/6/6
 
Devon Deeds and Naval Papers
Deeds - Cornwall
2.  William Kelway of Saltash, yeoman, 1678.
Ref:  570/66
 
Morley of Saltram - Morley Estate Papers
Title Deeds, Saltash, Plympton St Mary, etc.
2. Henry Kelway, merchant, and William Strong, gent, both of Plymouth, 13 June 1716
Ref: 69/M/2/699
 
Woollcombe and Jago Solicitors (of Plymouth)
Correspondence:  relating to Estate of Admiral Vincent, The Kelway Charity and Reverend Duke younge.
 
The Kelway Charity of Plymouth, 1822-1825
Letter dated 19 Nov 1822 from James Wood for Messrs Child and Company of Temple Bar [London] to Reverend John Gandy, vicar of St. Andrew, Plymouth enclosing an account for the Kelway Charity.
Ref: 161/3/1
 
Shelly and Johns Solicitors, of Plymouth
Papers relating to the case of Lang versus the Plymouth Devonport and South Western Junction Railway Company:
1936-1937:  Plymouth Tile and Hardware Co. Ltd, collection of various accounts including Alfred William Salter Kellaway.
Ref:  114/43/21
 
The Bracken Collection Files
File containing notes on the old Devonport school, Tavistock Grammar, Totnes Grammar, Saltash Grammar, the Old School House in Princess Square, the Kelway charity (with a copy of Henry Kelway's will), the Royal Commission. 1928-1944.
Ref: 323/40/4
 
More to come -
Sherrill

From: Sherrill Williams
Sent: Nov 12, 2003
Subject: Hampshire References

Hi All,
    I am glad the conversation evolved to more "modern" C/Ks because that gives me a chance to throw out to you all these document references.  I am not sure where I found these on the web - something called Access to Archives database.  I searched these using the spellings: Callway, Calway, Callaway, Calloway, Caylewaye (negative), Caylway (negative) and Kellaway, Kelway, Kelloway, Kellway, Kallawaye (neg.) and Kellawaye (neg.).  This indicates the use of the "y" in the spelling had disappeared from usage.  Perhaps someone will find something useful; at least these are interesting.
 
HAMPSHIRE RECORD OFFICE:
 
Jervoise family of Herriard, Hampshire
Official;  Offices of Sheriff and Justice of the Peace
1.  Original bundle of papers relating to Francis Kellawaye's debt to the Crown, 1591, 1596-97.
Reference:  44M69/G3/49
2.  Letter from F. Kelway to Sir Richard Poulet, 10 Jan 1596-97.
Reference:  44M69/G3/49/5
3.  Note of moneys to be paid to the sheriff, c1590 (Refers to Kellaway, late sheriff, (Francis Kellaway was sheriff in 1587).
Reference:  44M69/G3/15
4.  Information of Elizabeth, wife of William Hall of Lye in the parish of Havant (concerning assault on her by James Calloway, his wife and daughter and Thomas Rogers, all of Warblington, 8 Aug 1723).
Reference:  44M69/G3/305
 
Morant family of Brockenhurst, Hampshire
Estate: Title Deeds, Hampshire, Ringwood
Copy Court Rolls (numbered)
(71)  Admission of Sarah Kelloway, to a cottage, garden and close of ground (1/2 a) at Hightown Hill, 24 May 1717.
Reference:  6M80/E/T400
 
Bonham Carter Family Papers
Carter, Bonham family of Sheet, Hampshire
Estate: Estate Title
Admission on death of John Bonham Carter, his father, 1839 [Note: this contains 2 plus pages of land tracts belonging to this family, including]:  moiety of messuages and closes called Calloway's; also "a hilve of meadow late parcel of Edward Aburrow's land on the west of Stonebridge.
Reference:  94M72/E/T135
 
Mildmay family of Shawford, Twyford, Hampshire
Abstract of the title of Henry Mildmay to a copyhold messuage to the south of Shawford Lake, west of the mill and north of the highway, 1683-84 - purchased from Anne Calloway.
Reference: 46M72/Ti/f42v
 
Hampshire Quarter Sessions, c1350-1970
Court of petty sessions - Appeals
Albert William Calway of Aldershot v. the Justices of Oldham Division:  permitting drunkeness at The Grosvenor Hotel, Grosvenor Road, Aldershot, 3 - 14 October 1902 (Epiphany 1903).
Reference:  Q23/4/22
 
Records of enrolment, registration and deposit
1. Sacrament certificates
Thomas Hill, Officer of Excise at Mapledurwell; Signed by Michael Hutchinson and DD (M) and Henry Smith (C) and John Hooker (C); Witnessed by George Callaway and William Wilkins of Old Basing.  1728.
Reference:  Q25/2/31/64
2.  Turnpike Trusts (Chawton and Gosport Turnpike)
Contract with Daniel Callaway of Wickham, carpenter and bulder, to build a bridge at Corhampton, 1780.
Reference:  Q26/3/964
 
ISLE OF WIGHT RECORD OFFICE
 
Heytesbury Estate, IOW (Holmes family, Barons Heytesbury
Counterpart Leases (Thorley Manor)
Bundle 75 - Leases for Thorley Manor
Counterpart lease for lives, 10 Sept 1723 [(2) James Calloway of p. Thorley, I.W., labourer, Elioner Whitewood of Thorley, spinster, John Jolliffe, junior, of Thorley, batchelor]
 
Seeley, Charles, of Brook House, Brook, IOW
1. Bowcombe and Brighstone Estates
Smaller Properties at Brighstone (Stitch Cottage - Leases)
Counterpart lease for 99 years on 2 lives, Oct 31, 1710 (Consid:  Surrender of lease dated 1695 May 7 to Robert Bright of Souton, Dorset, husbandman, on lives of himself, Sarah Bright his wife and Charity Calloway, d. of Richard Calloway of Brixton, husbandman.)
Reference:  JER/SEL/65/1
2.  Other Properties (Harry Lee's Property, Yarmouth - Title Deeds)
Appointment and conveyance, 1848, Dec 18
(Parcel of garden ground in Yarmouth, I.W., as now marked out, formerly part of a larger garden belonging to messuage etc., now occ. Sir William Symonds, Edward Griffiths, William Chambers and Thomas Kellaway, 6p.
Reference: JER/SEL/114/1
 
Oglander Collection (Oglander family of Nunwell, Brading, IOW
Private Correspondence and Papers
1. Draft lettr from John H. G. Oglander to Mr. Faithful, [Barnsley Farm, Brading], about 21 Sept 1896.
"As no explanation was forthcoming after Mr. Fardell saw you, I was obliged to take the painful course to me of summonsing your son as well as Calloway.  I drove to Ryde on receipt of your note but found the summons was already issued.  The nets were not used near cornfields, but near Bartletts Green, a rough piece.  I have no wish to preserve rabbits to injure your corn, nor to interfere with your killing them in a legitimate way, but you must know that to bring a party of poachers at night round my coverts would soon cause game of all sorts to be destroyed and since you were not satisfied to accept our construction of the law on the matter the only satisfactory course is to get a legal decision on the summons, and I proceed in this in no vindictive spirit towards you, but trust that when you know your lawful rights, they will be observed by you as carefully as by myself."
Reference:  OG/CC/1857
2.  Letter from John Fardell, The Offices, Market Street, Ryde, I.W. to John H. G. Oglander, Hotel Windsor, Victoria Street, London -
"We distrained on this man and were fortunate to catch the whole of his live-stock, with the result that I believe, the sale realized slightly over L60.  Legally speaking there would have been a difficulty in obtaining possession, if Horlock had chosen to have made himself nasty, but after some trouble we have induced  him to write us giving up the land in satisfaction of his rent and on paying a small sum for a poor rate due and for which a distress warrant had been obtained from the magistrates.  I do not know if you remember the land, but the whole of it is arable and has for some years past, been allowed to get into very poor condition indeed.  My uncle has today seen Cox, who has the land adjoining and he has offered L63, which is an average of L3 an acre.  It is true that Horlock's rent and also Calloway his predecessor was fixed at L76.9s.0d., but as they were both extremely bad tenants and never paid, we think that this is really a good offer and ought to be accepted.  Cox will also have to pay something for tillages, which will produce probably another L12.  We have considered the offer of L50 for the quarter of an acre next to St. John's Cemetery (frontage 76ft., depth 172ft.) and think this offer ought not to be accepted."
Reference:  OG/CC/1916
3.  Letter from William A. Glynn, Seagrove, Sea View, I.W. to his brother, John H. G. Oglander, 3 December 1891.
"Considering the present constitution of your Board, there should be hope of it taking in hand the road from Springvale to Sea View.  You have votes that you should be able to depend on in Caws, Salter, Richards, Pink, Carlyon, Reid, Simmons, Death, yourself, (Callaway?), James.  Salter and Richards may probably wish to stand well with Sea View, specially as next year there will be a County Council Election and either of them or both may wish to take it up in my place.  Pink owes his position at the Board to other members, Carlyon to you, Reed and Simmons are always enlightened and can see an improvement that will make a good return.  Death is now with difficulty able to get to Sea View for his trade - a road would remove this.  I don't know if Callaway is still a member, but if present, he would not vote against the rest of you........etc."
Reference:  OC/CC/1766
4.  Letter from John Fardell, The Offices, Market Street, Ryde to John H. G. Oglander, Nunwell, Brading, I.W., 17 Sept 1896.
"It was reported to my uncle this morning that, at 10 o'clock last night, Wheeler and Russell surprised a part of poachers with a net 150 yards long and 8 rabbits, at Bartletts Green.  After searching them, they found they were young Faithfull and a man called Callaway,who I believe is a poacher of St. Helens.  Wheeler retained the net but I cannot say whether he kept the rabbits.  I shall be glad if you will kindly let me have your instructions, as to whether proceedings should be taken against either or both of them.  Probably before deciding on anything you would like to see my uncle on the matter and  should you do so, he bids me say he will call at Nunwell at any time you may appoint."
Reference:  OG/CC/1896
5.  Title Deeds (Park and Nettlestone)
Deed to lead to the uses of a fine, 10 December 1705.
[Deed of partition dated 16 Sept 1613 between Phillip Calloway and others, being daughters of said John Fitchett.]
Reference:  OG/H/37
6.  Mortgage, 1 Sept 1716
[2.  16 Sept 1613. Deed of partition between Philip Calloway and Mary, his wife and others, daughters and co-heiresses of said Joan Fitchett.]
Reference:  OG/H/40
 
Isle of Wight Quarter Sessions
1. General Files:  Crown v. Calloway, 1970
Reference:  IWQS/159
 
SOUTHAMPTON ARCHIVES OFFICE
 
Quarter Sessions Papers
1.  8 December 1741.  Information of Zachariah Callaway of Southampton, tallow chandler, accusing Henry Sergant, a soldier, of having a waistcoat lined with linen which he says was taken from the hospital in Southampton and that he suspects other property belonging to the hospital which had been lost might be found on board a sloop lying in the dock at Chapel.
Reference:  SC9/4/420
2.  12 June 1742.  Information of John Oakley of Southampton, gardener, and Zachariah Callaway of Southampton, tallow chandler, accusing Thomas Pellew, a soldier in hospital, of stealing cucumbers to the value of 5/ - from Oakley's garden.
Reference:  SC9/4/269
3.  26th December 1742.  Information of Zachariah Callaway, concerning property belonging to John Grove of Southampton, merchant, lately stolen from the hospital for sick and disabled soldiers in Southampton.
Reference:  SC9/4/278
 
Crew Lists and Ship's Agreements
General Register and Record Office of Seaman, 1835-1872
Registrar General of Shipping and Seamen, 1872-1992
No Date:  the Jane, not registered. [No ref.] Owner: Joseph Kellaway, Norton Green, Freshwater, I.W.
Catalogue Reference:  DCrew
 
More to come from Dorset, Devon, Somerset and other interesting places.
   Sherrill

From: Warwick Kellaway
Sent: Nov 18, 2003
Subject: Kellaways in Wiltshire

Hi Kathryn

I think now you have really awakened Sherrill - not that she ever sleeps. There is information there I recall receiving, but also, as usual, more that is new.

The Webbs and Kellaways were seemingly closely related.  It might well be that a Webb married a C/K
daughter in the mid 1400s, and because of the close relationship, and particularly the importance of
the family at the time, the alias was used.  Later some presumably took one name, some the other?

That William Kellaway is an interesting character - I suspect born somewhere around Dorset, perhaps
Wiltshire, from the spelling used, and probably about 1590.  He was a merchant, and London is mentioned - when did he get to the Americas?  Nicholas K of Forston in Dorset was evidently one of a number of wealthy family merchants, and conveniently began a series of wills from 1594, which I have just had a new look over, but did not find a matching William.
Francis born in 1606 is also interesting, in so far as he could have been named after the family "villain" who died in 1601, but surely not.  There was a Francis who died in 1731 at Blandford Forum in Dorset, leaving property to sons John and Thomas.  Presumably born c 1670 - he could have been a grandson?

Gravitation from the West Country towards London is apparent, and eventually it will be necessary to
search there.  The only records I have are from St Margarets Westminster from 1594 to 1660, where
there are 42 references, including a couple of Williams, but it was a very common family name.

I might add that the alias situation has caused us a lot of consternation, and there is still no defined reason for the use, nor any real indication as to whether the first or second name is the "real" one.  They can also carry on for several centuries!

I hope you are not too confused by all the information, and that my Précis attachment comes through
satisfactorily.

Best wishes
Warwick


From: Kathryn Payne
Sent: Nov 19, 2003
Subject: Kellaways in Wiltshire

Hi Warwick,
Thank you for responding to my inquiry about the Kellaway family in Wiltshire.  I have only just found the Kellaway connection to my Webbs, and this was in the mid 1600's.  Interestingly enough, one of the Webbs I am looking into is a Thomas Webb of Wiltshire, whose only child Alice married William Richmond and he became Richamon alias Webb.  This was back in the early to mid 1400's and doesn't eliminate the possibility of a Kellaway/Webb connection.
I did find a Francis Kellaway born 1606 in St. Edmunds, Salisbury, Wiltshire in the IGI, but that was all.  However, you are right about being cautious when using the IGI.  I will try to get the films for parish registers
when the LDS center here reopens.
I would be very interested in the notes which you have on the early Kellaways and would appreciate your sharing them.  It is often difficult doing research when you live far away from the source, but I see you are
from New Zealand, and so even further than I am in NYC.
Regards,
Kathryn


From: Kathryn Payne
Sent: Nov 29, 2003
Subject: Kellaways in Wiltshire

Hi Warwick

I am sorry I didn't respond to your very informative email sooner.  I was hit with the flu last week, and this is the first day I have felt up to reading email.
This is a lot to digest, but will work through it slowly.  I have found another alias among the Webbs, Richmond alias Webb.  Supposedly, the alias was used because a William Richmond married an Alice Webb, the only child of Thomas Webb of Wiltshire.  Richmond is said to have taken the name Webb to keep the line going.  Until I received your email, it was believed that this happened around 1430.  However, I pulled out my file and noticed that I have a copy of the Feet of Fines from Wiltshire for William and Alice and they
are listed in it around 1379 as husband and wife.  An interesting discovery for me, as it puts a whole new spin in the dates that have been used up to now.
As far as the Kellaways are concerned, I had hoped to get to the library to research that, but the flu has put that on hold.  Perhaps next week, when the library reopens.
One other thing, my Francis is a woman, she married Nicholas Webb in 1635. Somehow, I imagine she is connected to the Daniel Kelway who left her son Robert everything.  He was also of London, but whether born there on not, I don't know.  I just know they are kinsmen.  Once Robert went to the Middle Temple in London, he is also listed as 'of London' on everything I have found pertaining to him, even when he was living in Maryland.

I too will have to start searching in London for various records and I am rather dreading it.  It feels so overwhelming to me.  I expect I will someday find Robert Webb's will in London.

The attachment came through just fine, and this afternoon, when I have time, I will go through it again.

Regards,
Kathryn


From: Sherrill Williams
Sent: Dec 8, 2003
Subject: Kelway of Preston Pluncknet

Hi All,
    Sorry to be slow on completing our discussion.  I have fallen victim to the Holiday season.  I hope Pat has her "nutcrackers" up and marching throughout her house.  Kathryn, we hope you are continuing to recover from your flu bout.  We are delighted to now have Brian Kelway Willoughby on board to help keep us sane, and going in the right direction.  Someone please inform Brian how to access all our previous delightful and brilliant conversations, displayed on Bill Piper's website, and on the CFA website [www.callawayfamily.org].  Now, on to the Kelways of Preston Plucknet.
    I had not finished with the Kelways of Preston Plucknet, yet.  What do we do with yet another "Robert of Rockborne"?  My red flag has shot up once again.
    The Robert Kelway of the Preston Plucknet pedigree was born about 1577/82, and the pedigree notes that he married [..............] Berington.  A Walter Berrington of Frome Selwood [Somerset], in his will, dated 1600, named brothers Babham [Berrington?] and Robert Kellway "of Lillington, Dorset 'the younger.' "  The assumption then is that Robert K. was his "brother-in-law", married to Walter Berrington's sister.  This all being true, the Robert is not likely "of Rockborne."
    Where is Frome Selwood?  Selwood may have been a manor - the name has not survived in the modern road atlas, but Frome parish, Somerset, is about 7 1/2 miles SE of Trowbridge, Wilts, and about 5 miles W of Westbury [remember that, girls?!].
    Who is "Robert, the younger, of Lillington" [Dorset]?  Could he be the son of Henry ["the troublesome"], nephew of Martin K., who inherited the Lillington property?
    Is this the same Robert?  -  1608.  Robert Kellaway of Lillington, Dorset & Thomas Kellaway of Bath, Somerset paid penance for selling a pretended title to the manor of Combe Bryant to John Cowper [Cooper?] of 'Ragborn' co. Hants;  info by John Bailes of Salisbury, gent [from Lenton Recognizances, a book in Wiltshire Record Office, Trowbridge.]
    The Preston Plucknet pedigree shows that Robert K. (md Berrington) had a son, Robert K. "of Gray's Inn [b. c1607/12] who married Mary Whaley of Screaton, Notts.  They were parents of:
    Thomas Kelway (b. c1637) of Preston Plucknet, Som. who married Jane Hodges of Lufton, Som.  Thomas appears to be the person visited by the Heralds.  Lufton, Somerset is not on the modern highway atlas, but it was a small parish between Montecute & Yeovil.  Lufton was a village shown on the "first edition of the one-inch Ordnance Survey of England & Wales."  There were some buildings shown there.  Preston was a larger village located about a mile & half further east, a short distance from Yeovil.  Preston had more buildings than Lufton.  Preston Plucknet parish bordered the west side of Yeovil parish.  The parish registers of Preston Plucknet begin in 1741, so no help there.
    All of the above causes me to wonder - was Robert Kelway "of Rockborne" ? - or was he possibly the son of Henry and "of Lillington"?
    You all must wonder why we "remember Westbury."  Westbury is one of the reasons, if Paddington station was not enough, to cause us to get off the train and into a taxi when traveling about England.  One time we were traveling from London to Trowbridge, Wilts.  When we purchased the train tickets, the ticket agent told us we had a train change at Westbury - and to hurry across to the other track because we had only a short time between trains.  We exited the train at Westbury, each of us with loads of luggage, a pullman case, brief case, another case and handbags.  Usually when required to cross over to the other side of the track an elevator [lift] was there to take you to the crossover.  Not Westbury!  We walked over and looked down a flight of steps, the height of the pyramids.  We were to walk under the track.  Going down the steps was not "all that bad."  But, going back up on the other side was a nightmare.  We managed it, but lost our pleasure in train travel right then and there. 
    Comments on "the Roberts" are awaited.
Sherrill

From: Bill Piper
Sent: Dec 9, 2003
Subject: Frome Selwood (where is it?)

Where is Frome Selwood?  Selwood may have been a manor - the name has not survived in the modern road atlas, but Frome parish, Somerset, is about 7 1/2 miles SE of Trowbridge, Wilts,


Well, if you look at this site, it seems that Frome Selwood is another name for Frome.

http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/SOM/Frome/Gaz1868.html

(Do you agree David?)

By the way, you know that it's pronounced Froom, do you? (Or so I was told.)

Bill


From: Cary Moore
Sent: Dec 9, 2003
Subject: Frome Selwood (where is it?)

Thank you, Bill P., for setting the record straight on the Frome Selwood name. Yes, I do remember that our driver-friend, Bernard Welchman pronounced it 'Froom' for us. Just 10-15 mi. SW of Frome is Tytherington,
and Frome SW of Trowbridge. The reason Frome kind of stood out for us three is there was one Joseph C/K who m. Amy Pearce there in Feb.1728/9, both from Pilton; lic. reg. Wells Cathedral...bit too late to have been
'our' Joseph, but still maybe kin 'way down the line?
Just found this in my 2001 notes from the SOG:
Vol 78 SOMERSET ARCH. & NAT. HIST. SOC. [1932] pp 14-24   NOTES FOR THE HISTORY OF FROME (Som.)
Historical beginning at close of 7th C. with founding of Saxon Church by St. Aldheim, also a monastery, but was settled much earlier, at least Roman, with a royal manor, SELWOOD Forest, a hunting center. The
parish church is in Domesday Book because it held land.

Cary


From: Warwick Kellaway
Sent: Dec 10, 2003
Subject: Frome

Frome I see is in the picture.  I shall have a look back at what there is in the recent mail, but also record that we have another Frome in Dorset - Frome St Quintin.  Probably of no relevance currently, but the family was there also.  Mathias and Mary produced a family of mainly daughters, Martha, Sarah, and Hannah, with a son Mathias, between 1752 and 1759.  One of my Feavers was curate there in 1760.  Presumably my gg/grandfather John, and gg/grandmother Phoebe dairied there for a few years after their marriage in 1814, as my great grandfather's eldest brother, Henry Green Kellaway, was christened at Frome St Quintin in 1819.  (He later became a butcher in Dorchester).  It is in the heart of K Kountry, and villages nearby produced other klan members.

Will scratch around to see if I have anything on Frome itself - I did I think pick up a few in Westbury nearby.

Regards
Warwick


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