Kell-Chat
An
Ongoing International Conversation
between Callaway and Kellaway family researchers
discussing family origin, history and genealogy research in England
2001
(this file is VERY large and can be slow to load)
Primary
Participants -
Warwick Kellaway (Hamilton, New Zealand)
Bruce Callaway (Sydney, New South Wales)
Bill Callaway (British Columbia)
Sherrill Williams (Unicoi, Tennessee)
Pat Schnurr (Maitland, Florida)
Cary Moore (Birmingham, Alabama)
Bill Piper (Kent, U.K.)
From: Warwick
Kellaway
Sent: Jan 30, 2001
Subject: Name variations
I concur with Bill's comments concerning the three syllables, and am quite sure "-we" was commonly pronounced "-way". We also need not worry about the phonetically different sounding names today.
However, particularly around Durham, the "e"s did seem to have been gradually dropped, and family names such as Kellawe became Kellaw. Why I have no idea - dialect? - laziness?
Further, and to add to the problems, we had Roger de Kaillewi, in Gloucester in the early 1100s, also being referred to as de Cailli, while 100 years later Adam de Caylewe of Brimpsfield was also referred to as Kaylli and Caley ( incidentally his wife Mabel was a Giffard, and his presumed son, Simon, lived at Side nearby). These references seem to completely dispel any phonetic logic, and perhaps indicate that in the early period names were fairly casually applied, while possibly with our barbarian lot, only the scribes could read and write.
As the Kellows, Calloes, Caleys, and Kellys continued on into distinct families, I have generally discounted them after the early period, but some could well be related, and might explain why our family "disappeared" from some areas. Therefore because your first quoted period was 1385-9, I would definitely include William Kalowe, and the well known John Callowe, but unless someone has evidence to connect the others, would discount them.
As regards your 1216-25 period however, we have some fascinating family names.
Osbertum Kelewe, I have never met before, and he would seem to have been named after Osbern Giffard, as Elias was after Elias Giffard - was Osbertum perhaps his brother?
The vicarage of Kellawe is, I presume, that near Durham, and where I suspect the family of Bishop Richard lived at the time.
Henry de Kaleys is probably(?) from a different family, however some of the other names and places do make me wonder. I am fairly sure Osbert and Simon de Kaily are family, and relate to the castle of Brimpsfield and manor of Side. (The use of forms of "Caley" seemed common around Gloucester).
Robert de Cayly requires checking. Henry Kalle - probably not. Elena de Calewe, a new name to me - yes.
William de Kaylweyt - yes. Michael and Roger le Calewe - yes. Thomas and Walter le Calewe, also new to me in this guise, although the names are familiar in Devon, Dorset and Somerset, and need further investigation, - yes.
There is some great new information here - all adding to the picture.
Certainly there is a lot more to check out.
From: Warwick
Kellaway
Sent: Feb 1, 2001
Subject: Margaret wife of Hugh Courtenay, Earl of Devon
Dear Bruce
It would be tough though if we have been looking at the wrong French village all this time! Somehow I suspect it is of more recent origin. There is also another Caillouet in the Pas de Calais area with, I think, its own coat of arms. While we passed through France (for 4 days) we stayed a night at Montrichard (near Tours) and had noted just south of there, towards Vierzon, a farm/garage with the name Caillouet on it. So, like the rabbits, I guess they are around France.
I have been mulling over Sherrill's new names and dates, and note that Margaret was the wife of Hugh Courtenay, Earl of Devon. She caused some strife over Kellaways Manor a few years later, just before we lost it, and I suspected she may have been Edmund's niece, the daughter of William. I don't really think John de Kelly would have been a family member but, if Margaret wasn't actually related, she certainly seems to have been a very stroppy lady!
From: Warwick
Kellaway
Sent: Feb 6, 2001
Subject: St. Georges Chapel, Thomas Kellway/Kellaway
I have now returned from the Waihi surf to land on some bleeding slab at Windsor Castle. I will study the various learned comments on St Louis, the architecture, the Catholics etc. further, but coincidentally was looking over my notes about New Windsor Castle last weekend. (Tuesday was our Waitangi Day - National Holiday). The person you are looking for would be Thomas Kellway/Kellaway (not sure about other spelling options), who was Dean's Curate and minor Canon at St Georges Chapel Windsor from 1671-75, at least. There is a record of Jasper, presumably his son, being christened there in 1668, and a series of births and deaths through to his son George's burial in 1730, aged 47, and daughter Elizabeth's burial in 1737, aged 61. He was buried "in woollen", as was the custom then, on October 12 1718 (do not know his age).
Thomas was noted for "his neat hand", including initials and signatures, between 1671-75. Other records were in "a very bad hand by a person of limited education". Records were made of baptisms of children born in the Castle to Organists, Military Knights, Lay Clerks and Vergers. Marriages were not only of residents of the Castle, but also residents in the district, artisans and trades people, also well known families. Burials included Military Knights, Lay Clerks and Musicians. All in addition to the Royal Family and other dignitaries.
I have not yet discovered his earlier family, but I recall the name Jasper occurs later elsewhere. Cannot comment on the Queen's Chapel aspect (have never been there), but it may be a side chapel of St Georges, and as a curate he could have some justification for being there.
From: Warwick
Kellaway
Sent: Feb 7, 2001
Subject: St. Georges Chapel
I have had another look at all the Chapel e-mails and think I may have rushed in with St Georges Chapel. Windsor is in Berkshire and some distance from St James Palace. It therefore may be a completely separate issue. Further if the name was clearly "Callaway", it seems unlikely that that spelling would not have appeared somewhere in the Windsor register. I am not sure just when the actual Callaway spelling first appeared, but think it was probably around 1500. It would seem reasonable therefore that the slab could date from after 1623, if that was when our Queens Chapel was built. In the Parish Records of St Margarets Westminster, I have noted a lot of family references between 1594 and 1660. The Church would have been close to Parliament, and probably St James Palace(?), but I think disappeared either in the Great Fire of 1666, or in Wren's major rebuild after.
The interesting thing is that the spellings for some 40 references used about 8 variations, from Kellowaie to Collaway. Richard and Katherine, for example, produced at least 8 children, including Faith, Hope and Charity (all christened on the same day in 1659). Their name was Kallaway in 1648, otherwise Calloway or Callaway. Why there were so many variations at that time I don't know, as some of these people I would have assumed to be well educated. It therefore seems to me that, as at Windsor, there could well have been commoners buried at, or commemorated in, the Chapel. There had been no family connections with the Royal family for several centuries, but there was I think another Robert, who held an important legal position, similar to the well known Robert Keilway, about that time. Someone, Bill(?), is going to have a lovely time looking.
[See 6 May 2001, below.]
From:
Warwick Kellaway
Sent: Feb 8, 2001
Subject: Queen's Chapel, St. Georges Chapel
Records were made of baptisms of children born in the Castle to Organists, Military Knights, Lay Clerks and Vergers. Marriages were not only of residents of the Castle, but also residents in the district, artisans and trades people, also well known families. Burials included Military Knights, Lay Clerks and Musicians. All in addition to the Royal Family and other dignitaries. I have not discovered Thomas's earlier family, but recall that the name Jasper occurs later elsewhere. Cannot comment on the Queen's Chapel aspect, but it could be a side chapel to St Georges and, as a curate, he would have justification for being there.
As I said in the later mail, Thomas may be the man commemorated by the slab, but I really think now it was someone else, because the two Chapels are so far apart, and because of the definite Callaway spelling.
From:
Sherrill Williams
Sent: Feb 19, 2001
Subject: Gawen
Hello All,
Sorry to leave some out of the loop, but I had started out to make a comment to Warwick and ended up giving him some data. However, the main point of this was regarding "Robert of the Wards & Liveries." Does anyone have an actual copy of his will? If not, we do need this. I have several abstracts, but the abstracts seem always to leave questions in my mind. Just before we left on our research trip in Sept 2000, I found a record which I now cannot uncover.
It will surface soon, I hope. I made notes from it. It may have been a GAWEN pedigree.
According to this record, ROBERT K. OF NEW SARUM had a daughter, Alice, who married William Gawen; they had a son, Thomas Gawen. The GAWEN line appears to be as follows
I John Gawen md. ___ De La Mare
II Thomas Gawen of Northington, Wilts md. Elizabeth Coker (d/o John Coker of Mapowder, Dorset)
Their children
A. William Gawen md Alice Kelway
1. Thomas Gawen
B. John Gawen
C. Henry Gawen
D. Edeth Gawen md. Robert Gerard of Samford Peverell, Som.
E. Ann Gawen - a nun at Tarant
F. Jane Gawen - md. John Kelway, Gentl. of Bapton, Wilts
The following abstract of the will of Robert "of the Wards & Liveries" was published in "Abstracts of Somersetshire Wills," 4th Series (1889). I found this in Hobart Bartlett's papers
ROBERT KELWAYE of Stebonheath, co. Middx., esq. (That is for sure, but I do not have it.)
Will dated July 6, 1580;
proved Mar 6, 1580 (1580/81) by John & Ann Harrington [9 Darcy].
[Legacies]
- My cousin Francis Kelwaye, son & heir of Sir William Kelwaye, Knt., Sir William, the eldest of the family associated with Rockbourne had brothers Giles, (see Letters & papers Henry V111, Vol xx, part 2, page 42) John who married Elizabeth Knight on 29th January 1574 at Brading and died and was buried at Godshill I.O.W. in 1583 (Will in my posession), Henry, George, and Sisters Dorothy and Elizabeth. Francis (who died in 1603) was the eldest son of Sir William. dec'd - 1000 pds....
( I would refer you to Francis' travails in my Tudor Callaway article in the CFA Journal of 1985 which is reproduced on my website)
-Lady Kelwaye, widow of Sir William Kelwaye - 10 pds.
(That is news but who was she?)
-Elizabeth, wife of John Crooke of Chilton, Bucks 10 pds,
and her daughter Prudence, 100 pds. at marriage
-Edward Knoyle of Sanford Orcas, gent - 100 pds
-My nephew Thomas South of Swallowcliff, Wilts - 100 pds
-My brother Peter South
-My servants at my house at Shalingford, Berks, & at the Temple & in Fleet Street
(Obviously the last in inheritance of the "C's" and "K's". The dissolution of the Chanceries under Henry V111, and the wide influence of the lawyer involved is invoked by Warwick!)
-William Butler of Alton, Wilts, esq. - a gelding
-Sir Thomas Bromley & Robert Freke of Shroton, Overseers
-My nephew Thomas Gawen, son of William Gawen, esqr., dec'd - one pair of salts.
-To my daughter Ann Harrington, my estate in the late Monastery of Combe, Warwick & in Pudleton, Dorset, Shallingford, Berks, & in London.
-My said daughter Ann & her husband John Harrington, son of Sir James Harrington, Knt. to be Exors.
I think I have another version of this will that mentions other people, which makes it important to see the actual will. But, this version is telling in mentioning "my cousin, Francis Kelwaye, son & heir of Sir William Kelwaye, Knt." Robert uses both terms "cousin" and "nephew" which he seems to have defined. If his "cousin" is Francis Kelwaye, then Sir William Kelwaye, Kt. is his "uncle" - which then makes Robert's father to be a brother of "Sir William" and to be another son of "Sir John of Rockborne."
(not so, see above)
If Robert of "W & L" is the son of "Robert of New Sarum" then who is he?
(Certainly worth looking into)
Is this part of the Sherborne family, and does it link to the "Webbs of Salisbury"?
(Good one for Warwick)
This will also "suggests" that Robert had a sister who married Peter South and had a son Thomas South; and a sister who married William Gawen and had son, Thomas Gawen.
[I think the mention of "Thomas South" is from another version of the will.]
Everything I have read about Robert of "Wards & Liveries" and wife, Cecily, says they had only one child, Ann Harrington.
From:
Sherrill Williams
Sent: Feb 20, 2001
Subject: Robert Keyway, Sir John of Rockborne
Re Robert Kelway, etc. and how he might relate to the family of Sir John of Rockborne - We acquired copies of a number of Court of Request documents last year at PRO. Many of them concern the property of Rockborne manor. One in particular that I have been "deciphering" has a lot of papers included. One of these is the "answers" of "Francis Kalaway of Rockborne in the countie of South__ Esquier, sworn and examined" [he responds to 13 questions]. In his "answers" he states that he is a son of Sir William Kalaway.
Response to question 7 - "To the seventh he saith that he verily believeth the saide Dame Anne mother to the saide Deponent hadd certaine lande and tenements appointed unto her for her Joynature by Sir John Kalawaye grandfather to this Deponent, but whether before her marriage or after this Deponent doth not certainly know." [I assume that "Dame Anne" is the "Lady Kelway" referred to in the will of Robert of the W. & L.]
10. "To the tenth he saith that the same Dame Anne (as the said Deponent verily thinketh) did release her Joyntures or Dower of all ____ lands as were assigned unto her Joynture by the said Sir John Kalawaye unto the said Sir John and to MR. ROBERT KALAWAYE as this Deponent verily supposes........"
I believe this document states that Dame Anne had benefited from her dower "yerely" until the "yere of o'r lord one Thousand fyve hundred and threfore(?) or thereabouts."
(I will need to work on this actual date).
The documents in this file are lengthy and "wordy" and it requires some concentration to decipher them. Perhaps we will learn more of MR. ROBERT KALAWAYE in other of these documents. Just throwing this out to tantalize everyone who might be interested.
From: Warwick Kellaway, Bruce Callaway
Sent: Feb 22, 2001
Subject: John on the IOW
Warwick: I cannot add a lot to the Robert saga at present, and look to those with more access to the records However, from my information, Francis, being born about 1525, ...
Bruce: I have Francis' death as 1603, he had a son Thomas, and brothers Ambrose and Edward, for what that is worth.
Warwick: ...... would have been about 30 years younger than the W & L/ Legal Robert, and they would not therefore normally be "first" cousins - maybe second, or more remote.
My deduction, from the Heraldic Pedigrees, is that Robert's father William, and his uncle Robert, would have been first cousins to Francis's grandfather Sir John.
Bruce: I tend to agree
Warwick: I do not know how an Elizabethan would address a cousin, particularly an older cousin, but he might use the uncle/nephew terminology? Would Francis refer to the old fellow as cousin Robert, or maybe as uncle Robert? I may be astray here, but did not Shakespeare use the description "cousin" liberally?
Bruce: Quite so. I believe that no reliance can be placed on the use of the word cousin
Warwick: Pleased to know a little more about John on the IOW, Bruce, did he leave descendants? I only have a few marriages, references on the Poll Tax Subsidy Rolls from 1357(!) to 1661, the Muster Rolls of 1626/7, and of course the story of your cousin Sophie, who murdered the Duc de Bourbon! I do have the PR for St Helens(C), Newport(C), Yarmouth(K), Freshwater(K), and Newchurch(K), from about 1755-1860.
Bruce: John who married Elizabeth Knight at Brading 29th Jan 1574 (HPR) was a Coppersmith, bur 1583 Godshill, Will in my posession. He is mentioned in the Royal survey of Chale 1559/60 and rental Godshill 1566. Elizabeth died 1585 and I have the inventory of her goods & chattels. They had two sons Richard (ship's money Chale 1637 who married Elizabeth King 4th August 1624 (HPR) and John who married Elizabeth ? John is mentioned in Ship's money Chale 1637 died 1650/1, buried Chale and I have his will. John is my ancestor, The relationship to his Uncle William, and Grandfather Sir John of Rockbourne, the division on the Isle of Wight between the Kellaways of the western side and my mob on the Eastern clearly need a bit more work
From: Warwick Kellaway
Sent: Feb 24, 2001
Subject: My Devon problem Mokesbeare
Sherrill, Bruce, Bill and Bill With so many people involved with different aspects, I am never quite sure who to address.
Great to see the description of the Bissett arms and comments, Sherrill. It all adds to the overall picture, and Bruce is obviously delighted.
I have now put together my precis of the Chronicles, as promised, and shall try to add it to this mail, as a file (it is 31/2 A4 pages - sorry about the length). Will apologise in advance, as my file sendings don't always work. The information changes day by day, and I must move it, or there will be futher "improvements". I have now discovered the Library copies of the Domesday Book, and in less than an hour got quite a lot out of it.
My Devon problem Mokesbeare, or whatever, was Muxbere in 1086. Also called Mukelebere, it was coupled with Sweteton/Sutton and held in fees from the Earl of Gloucester. I had not been aware that there was an Earl at that time, but it does tie in with later events away in Gloucester, and with the Gloucesters. Valued at only 1 hide, it was held as one manor. A small scale map indicates the possible location as somewhere a little north of, or perhaps within, presentday Willand. Sutton may be Sutton Barton, southwest of Willand.
Osbern Giffard held the 10 hide Wiltshire manor of Terrintone/Tytherton (Kellaways), and the 9 hide manor of Brimpsfield in Gloucestershire, among a number of others held by a person named Dunn at the Conquest (Dunn appears to have been able to keep one property anyway). This again creates a more definite reason for the family at both locations, some 100 years later. Interestingly, Osbern also held (acquired?) the Dunn manors of Rockhampton in Langley, and Stoke (Stoke Lacy?) in Ledbury, Hertfordshire. The first family reference we have, Roger, may have come from Hereford, or Ledbury(?) Osbertum Kelewe is referred to separately in 1223, while the fourth Elias Giffard held the Baronry in 1242-3.
The presence of the Osberts and Eliases in both families is not likely to be a coincidence.
Osbert de Kaily and Simon de Kaily were given "simple Protection" from Aug 28 1264 "until
Easter". The odd abreviated spelling presumably connects with the Simon Caley/Caleway who was involved with the manor of Side, and the Giffards, in 1284. The protection appears to relate to the victory of Simon de Montfort over King Henry III at the Battle of Lewes in May, and the begining of a brief Parliament. Simon de Montfort was defeated by Prince Edward, (and dismembered), at the Battle of Eavesham the next August, so we have to wonder a little about how Osbert and Simon fared. It does however probably confirm that the family, or some of them, were on the side of the barons at this time.
Back in the Domesday Book, in Dorset, 8 hide (Stalbridge) Weston is referred to, as being held by the Bishop before the Conquest, but there is no indication of any family connection.
I could not find Durham, but will look further. The village of Kellawe is however referred to separately in 1260, which means the village was in existence long before Richard became Bishop.
In other references, we have Philip de Empingham pardoned for the death of Elena de Calewe and two others at Dunfermline in 1303. In Scotland? Thomas and Walter le Calewe were pardoned for entering the close of Thomas de Tydenton, late parson of the church of Pilardinton Hercy (near Stratford upon Avon), breaking his doors and windows, and carrying away his goods, in 1310.
That should be enough for now, but good luck Bill with St James and Buck House. I don't really think that "stone" is at Windsor, but note in my Bannister Fletcher (History of Architecture - the Architects Bible), that there are two small unnamed "chapels" each side of the nave/choir of St Georges(?) There was no plan of St James.
From:
Sherrill Williams
Sent: Feb 24, 2001
Subject: ROBERT
Let's work on ROBERT.
I have finally come across the GAWEN pedigree. It was in Pat's copies - Visitation of Wilts (date?). This pedigree is given in paragraph form, as opposed to the "diagram" form we usually see.
GAWEN of Titchborne - Arms Quarterly 1 and 4, Ermine, on a saltire engrailed Azure, five fleurs-de-lis Or, 2 and 3, Gules, two leopards's passant in pale Argent impaling Gules, two wings conjoined in lure Or (Seymore).
JOHN GAWEN of Northington, co. Wilts, Esq., mar _____ da. and one of the heirs of _____ Delamare, and by her had issue, - THOMAS, his eldest son; EDMOND, second son; ROBERT, third son; JANE, first mar. to (Thomas) Anketell in co. Dorset, Gent, after to _____ Bamfield, in co. Somerset, Gent., thirdly to Nicholas Cheverell of Owre, co. Dorset, Gent; ALYS, mar. to James Coker of Ahse at Berwick St. John, co. Wilts., Gent.
THOMAS GAWEN of Northington, Esq., eldest son and heir to John, mar. Elizabeth, da. of John Coker of Mapowder, co. Dorset, Esq., and by her had issue, - WILLIAM, his eldest son, now living; JOHN, second son; HENRY, third son; EDETH, mar. to Robert Gerard of Sampford Peverell, co. Somerset; ANN, a nun in Tarant; JANE, mar. to "John Kelway" of Bapton, co. Wilts, Gent.
WILLIAM GAWEN of Northington, Esq., eldest son and heir to Thomas, mar. "Alice, da. of Robert Kelway of New Sarum, co. Wilts," and by her had issue, - THOMAS, his only son now living.
The following is from "History of Wiltshire," by Hoar (pp. 43/44) - [Hund. of Frustfield]
WHITEPARISH.
Freeholders 8 Henry VII.
William Cayleway, John Estcourt, John Uffenham, John Gerberd, John Kirkebye, John Cosyn, ______ Lye, Nickolas Smythe, Thomas Sampson.
Freeholders 13 Henry VII.
John Estcourt, William Keyleway, John Kirkeby, John Gerberd, William Swayne, William Cauntewell.
Freeholders 22 Henry VII.
Anthony Stilman, William Keyleway, Thomas Estcourt, the heirs of John Gerberd, John Bacon, heirs of John Uffynham, ____ Elys, John and Walter Kirkeby, William Swayne.
Freeholders 10 Henry VIII.
Anthony Styllman, Welliam Selwyne, William Keilway, Thomas Eascourt, John Uffynham, William Burde, John Hunt, John Wallis.
Freeholders 2 Elizabeth.
Nicholas Carew, Edmund Estcourt, heirs of Estman and Cantwell, John Keilway, heirs of Johnson, and Richard Styleman.
Freeholders 3 Elizabeth.
John Kelloway, John Sampson, John Bell, Nicholas Bacon, Anthony Stileman, Thomas Wicks, the heirs of Thomas Johnson, heirs of Cantewell, Giles Estcourt, heirs of Codford.
Freeholders 11 Elizabeth.
John Sampson, John Bell, John Strugnell, Henry Kelloway, Anthony Stileman arm., Thomas Southe arm., Giles Estcourt, Nicholas Norice.
Freeholders 18 Elizabeth.
Nicholas Bacon, Esq. - for Blackerswell John Sampson - for Harestock. John Bell - for Hoptons Freeholders in 1622.
William Stockman, William Stockman (twice), Andrew Wicks, Giles Eyre, James Lynch, William Noyes, ____ Bell, heirs of John Samson, Anthony Hayter, ____ Puddy.
Freeholders in 1657.
William Stockman, John Weeks, Richard Hayter, Edward Younge, Peter Gwyer, William Samson, Richard Palmer, Roger Thayne, Mr. Lynch, Walter Thomas, Peter Atwood, John Strugnell, Robert Ingram.
Of these proprietors, or their descendants, although some slight subsequent notice will be made in mentioning the principal remaining farms within the Manor, it would be impossible to trace all the separate possessions, and sufficiently tedious if it were possible.
A more particular notice, however, is required of the family of KEILWAY, whose name frequently occurs in these lists; they are, probably, descended from Elias de Caillowie, who married Bertha, daughter of Elias Gifford, of Boyton, living in the reign of King Henry II., and appear to have had considerable property in the Manor, possibly portions of the land now included in Younge's and the Street farm; and I conclude from the following pedigree, taken chiefly from the Visitations, that they derived their possessions here from the family of Barrett.
This last mentioned name is also of high antiquity; for Walter Baratt, the brother of Fulco, in the 3rd of King John quitted claim of his own land to have that of Walter Waleran [MSS. Phillips].
Pedigree of BARRETT and KEILEWAY, of WHELPLEY and WHITEPARISH.
Arms Barrett -- Or, on a chevron between three mullets Sable, three lions passant gardant of the Field.
Keileway -- Argent, two glazier's snippers in saltire between four pears Sable.
John Barrett = Agnes, dau. of John Ellis of Bapton
|
Henry Barrett, of Whiteparish = Joane, dau. of ____ Camell, of Fittleford,
co. Dorset.
|
Jane, dau. & heir of Henry Barrett = William Keileway of Sherborne, co.
Dorset
|
Thomas Keileway, eldest son & heir, of Sherborne, co.
Dorset. = d/o of
Lewston | of Lewston, co. Dorset, Esq.
|= d/o ___ Stantor,
of Horningsham, |co. Wilts. [1st mar.??]
|
|William - Peter - Thomas
|
Robert* - William - Agnes, or Alice*
*Robert Keileway, eldest son and heir of Sherbourne = Jane, d/o Thomas Gawen
of Northington, Wilts.
|
|
|
John Kelleway, of Whiteparish, co. Wilts
Martin Keileway, of Lillington = Dorothy,
son & heir; living in 1555 = Jane, d/o
d/o John Frampton of Mouton
Thomas Gawen of Northington, co. Wilts
|
|
Henry - Philip - Elizabeth
*Agnes, or Alice = William Gawen of Norrington
[If the above pedigree transmits "garbled" I will re-transmit it in a different format.....Sherrill]
{yes, please - Bill}
p. 47. Younge's Farm.
The ancient deeds of this property, part of which, with the homestead, immediately adjoins those before mentioned, are now no longer extant, but it is described as a "parcel of the inheritance of William Waller, or Henry Ringwood, Esquires, and other lands, in all about 133 acres." It takes its present name from Edward Younge, of Whiteparish, Gent. descended from the family of Great Durnford, in this county, to whose son and heir John it came about 1674.
[This does not mention the Keileway family, its association with the property now comprising "Younge's Farm" apparently having occurred many generations prior.......Sherrill].
-----There is more to follow in Note 2.]
From: Bruce Callaway
Sent: Feb 25, 2001
Subject: The Visitations
Sherrill wrote
NOTE This will be followed later by some notes on Martin Kelway - which may help clarify - but may confuse further - the relationships. Frankly, I think the "authors" of the histories became confused and the "heralds" doing the "visitations" were frauded, in some cases. How are we to make sense of it? Well, we will just keep trying to go through the "back door.
Dear Sherrill, You continue to amaze me with the depth of your researches. You have provided enough work for me for the next year! What you say above is so true. Part of the purpose of the visitations involved taxes and rentals to the Crown. Human nature has not changed in the past 1000 years. Nevertheless, with our ability now to cross reference, there are a few "back doors" which have been left open (I hope). Pedantic reliance on the "authors of histories" can also be confusing. Here I refer back to the Victorian History of Hampshire wherein part of the inheritance of Rockborne Manor was supplied many years ago by the 'deceased' bursar of Winchester College! That part has caused me untold hours of angst. He glossed over some 80 years prior to circa 1568 (the death of Sir John) meantime losing in my view at least one possibly two generations of "K's" and/or "C's"!
From:
Sherrill Williams
Sent: Feb 25, 2001
Subject: Martin Kayleway's will - 1575
Here follows two abstract versions of the will of Martin K. I find neither of them to be satisfactory, but unless good luck turns up another version, these will have to do for the present. The first abstract was published in "Somerset Will Abstracts," 1st Series, Brown, Rev. Frederick (1887), on p. 46.
MARTIN KAYLEWAY [or Kellaway] of Lillington, Dorset, Gent. Will dated Dec. 4, 1575, proved June 30 1575 by Henry Kayleway. [52 Pickering.] To my nephew John Jerrard, my young trotting gelding, with a white star in the forehead, &c..., & an obligation now depending between me & Xtopher Jerrard, of Wareham, & Eme his wife. To Ann Jerrard, my niece, L 20. My niece Grace Jerrard, daughter of Eme Jerrard. John, son of Thomas Clavell. William, son of John Kayleway, of Stalbridge. Dorothy my wife. Her brothers, Robert & Francis Frampton.
The other version is from a handwritten transcript, probably from the SOG library, London.
The handwriting is not very distinct, and I have rearranged this as a list -
51 Pickering 4 December 1575
Martin Kaylewaye of Lillington, Dorset
--to be buried in church of Lillington
--[bequest] to the church there
--[bequest] to church of Sherborne
--my nephew John Jerrarde - mentions law suit with Christopher Jerrarde of Wareham & Eme his wife.
--Anne Jerrarde my niece
--lease granted to me by John Cotherington of Fifod of meadows in Purbeck
--Grace Jerrarde my niece - Eme Jerrarde her mother
--Edith Hawarde
--John, son of Thomas Clavell
--Thomas Clavell of Bloxford
--William, son of William Kailewaye, late of Stalbridge
--Thomas Kailewaye the elder of Stalbridge
--Robert Kailewaye, brother to William & Thomas
--Thomas Kailewaye the younger, son of William, deceased
--to Sisley Plucknett, daughter of William Kailewaye, deceased
--to Darye? Plucknett - to every of her children
--my nephew Raynold Honnyngton
--Francis Frampton my wife's brother
--Joan Lyte her sister [wife's sister?]
--Henry Hussey
--my servants Edward Golfeney, Hugh Talbot, Maude Elford, Agnes Benbury, Joan Payne, Robert Howebins, Thomas Slownle?
--my boy Matthew
--my wife, Dorothy
--my ground at Lampforde? [Sampforde?]
--my lands &c formerly in occupation of Christian Masters deceased
--my nephew Henry Kaileway of Ticheborne, Wilts, Gent.
--Henry Kaylewaye, executor
--Overseers, John Leweston, Robert Frampton & Thomas Moleyns esq.
(Proved 30 January 1575 by Henry Keilewaye, executor
Notice that the first version says the will was proved in "June" 1575, and the last version gives "January" 1575. I believe that in one of the following chancery cases Martin's death is given as December 1575. These chancery cases were abstracted for CFA by Noel Currer-Briggs, and have been published in early volumes of The Callaway Journal. The original chancery cases are at PRO.
C3/278/64. 6 Nov 1606.
Bill of Complaint.
Henrie Kellaway of Lillington, Dorset Esq. with one Henry Reade bound in an obligation of L 44 for payment of L 72 about 8 years ago to Henrie White of the city of New Sarum, Wilts gent. being the debt of Henrie Kellaway. To indemnify Henry Reade, Henry Kellaway bound to the latter for L 80 agains loss or damage. Henrie Kellaway has paid L22 and has asked Henry Reade to return bond between them, but he refuses.
12 November 1606. Answer of Henry Reade gentleman defendant to the bill of complaint of Henry Kellaway, Esq.
Complaint exhibited by Robert Kellaway, son of complainant. Says L 21 not paid by Henry Kellawaye, & Henry White sued them both in Trinity Terme in 44 Elizabeth and recovered the som of L 40. Defendant often travelled to complainants house to entreat him to pay White his money, allowing judgement to stand for approximately 16 months. Defendant at the beginning of the Summer commenced a suit to recover the money by the bond in the court of the city of New Sarum. The complainant moved the cause by virtue of an habeas corpus into his Higness bench.
Replication by Henry Kelwaye Esq stating bill of complaint to be true.
C2 Charles I. K. 11/56. 13 February 1627. (Two inches of the right hand margin of this document are severely damaged).
Bill of Complaint of RICHARD KAYLWAY, gentleman, one of the Clerks of Valentine Saunders Esquire, one of the Six Attorneys or Clerks of Chancery.
Whereas MARTIN KEYLWAY, gent (several words missing) deceased, in his lifetime was seized in fee simple of an estate and inheritance in the MANOR OF NETHER LILLINGTON in the parish of (damaged)---Martin K. made his will 4 December 1575 and bequeathed (damaged) as follows And for the goodwill I the said Martin Keylway do bear to the name of the Kelways as also I desire by the Grace of God that all my lands may have continuance in the name of the Keylways I give (damaged) testament unto the heirs of my body lawfully begotten all those my lands and tenements, etc. that I have before in this my last will devised to my wife Dorothie Keylway, for her life, after her decease (damaged) for default of issue of me the said Martin Keylway (damaged) unto my nephew Henry Keylway of Tichborne in the coutny of ?Wiltshire [this passage is almost illegible; there is, however, a place called Tichborne in Hampshire which might well be correct....NC-B] -- Keylway the elder and Robert Keylway three other sons of the said William Keylway respectively and to the heirs male of every of their bodies and for want of such heirs to the right heirs of me the said Martin Keylway (damaged) and to be begotten and to the said Henry Henry Keylway and to the heirs male of his body and to the said Thomas Keylway the younger (damaged) the said William Keylway, Thomas Keylway the elder and Robert Keylway (damaged) and therefore I the said Martin Keylway do by this my last will and testament (damaged) appoint Henry Keylway executor and John Leweston, Robert Frampton, Thomas Mollins Esquires to be the overseers of this my last will and testament (damaged). MARTIN KELWAY DIED IN DECEMBER 1575 and in the January next following Henry Keylway proved the will and entered into possession of the said manor and lands. YOUR ORATOR saith (damaged) that such was the respect the said Martin Keylway did both long before and also at and after the making of the said will bear to Thomas Keylway the younger in the said Martin Keylway's will mentioned which Thomas (damaged) unto your Orator and also the occasion why Martin Keylway was so careful of setting his lands etc. upon his kindred was for that he feared the said Henry Keylway would in time to (damaged) and consume the same as he had done other lands left him by his father and therefore in regard he did bear special affection to your Orator's said father, being a younger brother and the fourth son of his father, and one for whome the said (damaged) would often say he had done more for in settling the remainder of the lands so upon him than for all his other kindred except the said Henry Keylway. Martin Keylway did also before the making (damaged) affirm and say to your Orator's father that he would have given him L 500 in money or land he did not think that he had not given a greater gift by appointing him and by the said will to be (damaged) after Henry Keylway as aforesaid which the said Martin Keylway so did, the rather because Henry Keylway had been married many years and had no issue at the time of Martin Keylway's death and was wasteful and had (damaged) estate which his father had left him as aforesaid. And your Orator further showeth that Henry Keylway not only proved Martin Kelway's will but also found an Inquisition Post Mortem of the said Martin Kelway (damaged) the said entail by will was found at large. Also Henry Keylway by virtue thereof having entered and enjoyed the lands did for many years together offer to sell the lands devised unto him as aforesaid (damaged) unto divers persons at several times insomuch that some were willing to have dealt with him for the same lands. But being advised by counsel concerning Henry Keylway's title (damaged) limited unto him by the said will, dissuaded such as would have purchased the same from him (damaged) Hurd, gent, wanting a convenient house for habitation proceeded in the purchase thereof at ord adventures and bought the said manor and lands from Henry Keylway. But before he had concluded for the same he the said Hurd repaired to (damaged) he being the son and heir of the said Thomas Keylway the younger, deceased, and consequently next in remainder entitled to the manor aforesaid by the will of Martin Keylway. And the said William Hurd would have had your Orator (damaged) [NOTE by NC-B It would appear that the last damaged passage contains the name of the plaintiff or Orator, namely Richard Keylway, who was therefore the son of Thomas Keylway the younger, deceased], reasonable composition have joined to the assurance which the said Henry Keylway and Robert his son of the said manor unto him, but your Orator refusing to do it the said William Hurd proceeded notwithstanding with the said Henry Keylway (damaged) the same manor lands conveyed unto him and his heirs by the said Henry Keylway and Robert Keylway and by the colour thereof he entered and possessed himself of the said manor insomuch that when your Orator was advised to enter into the same (damaged) and to bring the title to a trial of law. Thereupon your Orator made his entry in August 17 James I (damaged) and did make a lease thereof to one Walter Foy, gent, for five years, thereby to tune your Orator's title and afterwards Walter Foy did implede the said William Hurd by an (damaged). The case went to trial in Lent Assizes for the county of Dorset, and the verdict (damaged) [The next passage is extremely hard to understand since there are many folds, and much dirt on the parchment, but it appears that there were several trials which went to Appeal. The next passage which is more or less legible reads as follows] matter of record the said manor and lands of Lillington then in the possession of the said William Hurd (damaged) and the said Henry Hodges was put in possession by the Sheriff of Dorset, and William Hurd wholely outed. Then one John (damaged) one of the Clerks of Sir Laurence Washington, Kt., Registrar of this Court, understood he the said John Cole by himself or some other of his friend on his behalf made means to deal with the said William Hurd for the said manor....... [This occupies about seven-eighths of the total parchment sheet. The rest in purely of legal interest and contains no further genealogical information.]
The Demurreer of John Cole, gent., Defendant........It likewise appears by plaintiff's own showing that William Hurd obtained judgment in favour of Henry Keylway's and his own title.....[The rest of this Demurrer is only concerned with the legal niceties concerning the title and contains no genealogical information.]
This chancery case suggests to me that the actual will of Martin Keylway contains a lot more information than the above abstracts would lead us to believe. The case above further suggests that Martin Kelway desired the title to the Lillington property to remain with heirs bearing the Kelway name. For this reason, he gave Henry, his nephew, only a "life estate" in the case that he did not produce male heirs. Apparently Henry, ignoring Martin's intent, and probably needing "money" attempted to sell the Lillington property out of the family. But, his "cousin" Richard (s/o Thomas the younger) called his hand. Thus this chancery suit. We need to see a copy of Martin's actual will to learn if his desire to keep the property's title in the Kelway name is stated in the will.
Regardless, the title to the Lillington property did go to the Coles. In one of the History of Dorset volumes it is stated "from this family [Kelway] it came to the Coles, originally of Wiltshire. In a subsidy roll 1661 Mr. John Cole, Mr. Laurence Cole, and Mr. Thomas Gollop are mentioned at this place."
Enjoy! And when you all figure this family out, tell me about it.
From:
Sherrill Williams
Sent: Feb 25, 2001
Subject: William Kayleway Will
This will was published in one of the volumes of "Somerset Wills," pp.218/219.
WILLIAM KAYLEWAY [27 Godyn. Fo. 224]
21st May 1469, I, William Kayleway, the elder, son of John Kayleway, late of Shirborne in co. Dorset, make my will in this manner ---
Item, I bequeath to the cathedral church of Salisbury, 12d.
Item, to the parish church of Shirborne, my new missal; and I will that the said missal shall be well and suitably illuminated and bound at my costs and expense.
Item, I bequeath to the Abbot of Shirborne 6s.8d. and to his convent, to say "Placebo" and "Dirge" and mass for my soul, 13s.4d.
Item, I bequeath to the Vicar of Shirborne, for tithes forgotten, 6s.8d.
Item, to the almshouse of Shirborne aforesaid, 13s.4d.
Item, to the Prior and his brethren of Henton, to pray for my soul, 13s.4d.
Item, to the White Friars of Bristol, to pray for my soul, 13s.4d.
Item, to the Rector of la Grene of Shirborne, 3s.4d.
Item, to WILLIAM, my son, my two best horses with bridles and saddles and other apparel to the said horses belonging.
Item, to William Glover, my servant, 40s., and the horse on which he is accustomed to ride, with the saddle and bridle, and other apprel to the same pertaining.
To William Daniell, my servant, 10s.
Item, to John Preston, 10s., to pray for my soul.
Item, I bequeath to JOHN, son of the aforesaid WILLIAM, my son, all my lands and tenements in the county of Bristol, and in Yevell in co. Somerset, to have and to hold to the said JOHN and the heirs males of his body lawfully begotten forever; in default of such heir, the said lands and tenements shall remain to WILLIAM, brother of the said JOHN, and to his issue male; and in default of such heir male I will that the said lands shall remain to the said WILLIAM, my son, and to the heirs males of the body of my said son, WILLIAM lawfully begotten, for ever, and if it happen that the same WILLIAM, my son, die without issue male, then I will that the said lands, &c., remain to the right heirs of me, the said WILLIAM.
Item, I bequeath to the said WILLIAM, my son, a chalice of silver and in part overgilt, two phials of silver, one "paxbrede" of silver partly overgilt, my second missal and my breviary and all other necessaries belonging to my oratory in my messuage at Shirborne.
Item, I bequeath to the said WILLIAM one silver cup which I had of the gift of JOAN, mother of JOAN, my late wife.
Item, to the same WILLIAM one other silver cup called "Bollecuppe," to have and to hold all the aforesaid chalice &c. to the said WILLIAM, my son, and to the heirs of his body issuing, and I will that none of my heirs, under pain of my anathema, disobey or break this my will.
The residue of my jewels both silver and overgilt I give and bequeath to JOHN, son of my said son WILLIAM, and to the heirs males of his body lawfully begotten (&c. as before).
Item, I bequeath to the said WILLIAM, son of my said son WILLIAM, all my iron and all my "oode" [woad] which is in my cellar at Shirborne aforesaid.
Item, to AGNES, daughter of the said WILLIAM, my son, 40 li.
Item, to ALICE, the other daughter of the said WILLIAM, 40 li. to be paid out of my debts.
The residue of my goods not bequeathed I give and bequeath to my executors, to do therewith as shall seem to them most expedient for my soul; and I ordain the said WILLIAM, my son, and Thomas Cosyn, my clerk, executors of this my will.
And whereas my seal is unknown to many, I have procured the common seal of the Abbess and Convent of the House of the B.V.M. of the Cistercian order of Tarent in the said county of Dorset, to be affixed to these presents.
Proved 1st July, 1469, and administration committed to the executors.
Interesting about the "seal."
___________________
This is an abstract of the will of Robert Kelwaye (of the Wards & Liveries), made by Noel Currer-Briggs.
ROBERT KELWAYE of Stebonheath (Stepney), Middlesex, Esquire [PCC 9 Darcy]
6 July 1580. Pr 6 Mch 1580/1 by exors.
Exors Daughter Anne Harrington andher husband, John Harrington, son and heir of Sir James Harrington, Kt.
Supervisors Sir Thomas Bromley, Lord Chancellor, Edmond Anderson, Sergeant at Law, John Crooke, Robert Freake of Shroton, Dorset [Note Also known as Iwerne Courtney), esquire. Witnesses Robert Dale, Grocer, Thomas Gawyn, John Thomas, vicar of Stebonheath.
To the poor of Stepney L200.
Legatees
To my cousin Francis Kelwaye, son and heir of Sir William Kelwaye, knight, deceased, L 1000, and to Lady Kelwaye, Sir William's widow, L 10.
To Elizabeth Crooke, wife of John Crooke of Chilton, Bucks, esquire, L10, and to Prudence Crooke, their daughter L 100 on marriage.
To Edward Knoyle of Sandford Orcas, Somerset, Esq, L 100.
To my nephew Thomas South of Swallowe Cliffe, Wiltshire, L 100 and he to find meat and lodging for his brother Peter South.
To John Crooke, my godson, son and heir of John Crooke L 10 and the same to my godson Edward Buttone, son of William Buttonne of Alton, Wiltshire, esq.
To all yoemen servants at my houses in Stebonheath, Shawlingforde, Berkshire [Shellingford or Shillingford, near Farringdon, Berks], The Temple in London, my house in Fleet Street, 40/ - each.
To my servant Thomas Richardes of Shallingford 40/ -
To William Auger of Shallingford, my servant 40/ -. Same to servant
Richard Milles of Shallingford.
To Sir Thomas Bromley, kt, Lord Chancellor of England, one of my best horses [Note Sir T.B. presided over the trial of Mary, Queen of Scots].
To my cousin Ambrose Kelwaye a horse.
To my nephew Thomas Gawen, son of William Gawen, Esq., dec'd, a silver salt cellar.
To my daughter Anne Harrington, my estate in the late monastery of Combe, Warwickshire [Note 4 m. east of Coventry] and my messuages etc in Combe Smite, Over Smite, Warwickshire [unidentified], Puddletown, Dorset, Shallingford, Berks, London, Nether Smith, Bunnleye [unidentified] and elsewhere except my parsonage of Uffington, Berks, which I give to my servant, Thomas Richardes and Margaret, his now wife, and to Robert Richardes, their son and my godson.
...............................................................
So, who is Sir Robert of "the Wards & Liveries" ??????
Sherrill
From: Warwick Kellaway
Sent: Feb 26, 2001
Subject: William Kayleway Will
Good evening Sherrill
Thank you for the latest information. I had some of it myself, but appreciate your copy, which confirms detail, while adding much more. I think your main source was the voluminous Hutchins History of Dorset, written about 1880(?), and which it took me some time, and money, to access through the LDS FHC. It is very detailed, and I marvel at the time and research involved, even if there are one or two questionable areas. He naturally had trouble with our spellings.
The Gawen information was great, and fits neatly with what we had before. I did goof in apportioning Alice to our Robert, rather than his uncle. Emma, similarly may have belonged to uncle Robert, who seems to have moved to Old Sarum in Wiltshire.
I see Henry K, or his heir John, left Whitparish about 1570-80, presumably for Bapton or Tisbury.
The Preston Plucknet family are interesting. Robert of Rockborne would have been born about 1610, but who exactly was he, and where was he living - surely not at the manor - the village? His family do not seem to offer any real clues. He could be a descendant of John, Edward or Ambrose? Grandson Thomas's five sons, born around 1670, however would be the forebears of later Wiltshire families.
There were definitely two Roberts, and I am coming to the opinion that the uncle had some position of importance, not sure just what, but all the legal reports were of our Robert.
The comment that he was a descendant of Sergeant Kelway is odd, and really suggests grandson, rather than son, but his father could not have been born later than 1460-70, and would be unlikely to be made sergeant at law in 1552, when probably over 80! Similarly the younger Robert would not fit the "Causes of Law" Reports, as he was only born around 12 Hen VII (1497). Could it really be 12 Hen VIII? The 1602 (date?) would make it worse.
I think also there was another Robert at the Inner Temple in the mid 1600s, and consider the three, in total, might have been too much for a 19th cent researcher(?)
Best wishes
Warwick
From: Bruce
Callaway
Sent: Feb 26, 2001
Subject: Robert/Martin/William et al
Sherrill,
Have you emptied the second 'shoe-box' yet? I certainly hope so because you have just added another 12 months to my research, although Warwick seems to be keeping pace with you! Brilliant stuff!
Appropos the direction in which the CFA is moving, I have emphasised to President Victoria Jennings that unlike many genealogical Societies, the CFA has broken the 'medieval barrier'. Colin D. Rogers, who first published his book in 1983, and has gone on to his third edition recently, states " In our quest to push back the knowledge of our genetic forbears, 1538 marks a much more significant watershed than 1837. There are relatively few genealogists who have broken through the 1538 barrier". He goes on to explain why, but this is what we are all familiar with.
Bruce
From: Sherrill
Williams
Sent: Feb 26, 2001
Subject: Plunknett, Sir John Tregonwell, Sir John Kelway
Once again, good morning all,
In the handwritten will abstract of Martin K. there is mention of the Plucknett family. I believe the scribe mis-interpreted "Davey Plucknett and 'his' children" as "Darey Plucknett and 'her' children." The following data was published in "Somerset & Dorset Notes & Queries," Vol. 2. On p. 178 begins "The Parish Register of Milborne Port, Somerset."
On page 187 is given an abstract of the will of Wylyam Plucknett of Mylborn Porte, 12 Mar. 1540 [the will is said to be archived at Somerset Arch. Soc., Taunton]. The will mentions my sons, John, Rychard, Wylyam, Thomas and Davy; Jone, my dr.; Alys Halet. Wm. Exull, my wyffys sonne; Jone Hyde, my wyffys sonne (sic); John Clerke; my dr. Margaret; Katheryng my wyf. Overseers Wm. Meer of Shurburne, John Plucknett of Horsyngton. Witnesses, John Warman, Wm. Bysshope, Tho. Cammerlayne, John Glod, John Clark; governors of the children Ryc. Frye and John Clyd.
The parish register gives the following information
William Plucknet mar. Johan Kelway at Pus (Purse) Candle, 12 Sept 1559
David Plucknet mar. Cecilia Kelway, 29 Nov. 1562.
Julian Kelway buried 10 May 1540 (is this male or female?)
John Kelway buried 27 May 1642.
David Plucknett (m. Cecilia Kelway) was baptized 30 March 1540. Their children are not given in this parish register, so evidently they were residing elsewhere.
William Plucknett (of the will) was buried 1 April 1541.
These are the children of William Plucknett & Johan Kelway
William Plucknett - bapt. 27; bur. 30 Jan 1560
John Plucknett * - bapt. 8 Feb 1561
Elizabeth Plucknett - bapt. 12 Apl 1563
Ellin Plucknett - bapt. 20 Sept 1565
Marie Plucknett - bapt. 18 Jan 1568
Margaret Plucknett - bapt. 16 Apl 1570
William Plucknett - bapt. 5 Oct 1572
Samuel Plucknett - bapt. 26 March 1575
Robert Plucknett* - bapt. 22 Feb 1578.
*John Plucknett mar. Anne Gollop at Netherburie, 4 Feb 1587/8. [Their children's baptisms are given.]
*Robert Plucknett's wife was Elizabeth (apparently not married in this parish).
Baptisms of their children are given.
Elizabeth, wife of Robert Plucknett, was buried 11 Oct 1667.
Robert Plucknett, "an antient man," aged 88, was buried 3 Apl. 1670.
Johan Plucknett, widow, was buried 30 March 1609. [Johan Kelway]
These are our "cousins," but I am giving this for "date perspective," primarily.
ANOTHER SUBJECT
In "The Chronicles" (latest edition), about page 31 is mention of Sir John Tregonwell (d.1564) and that his arms are quartered with those of Sir John Kelway of Hants. Here is the reason
Sir John Tregonwell married (1) Elizabeth Bruce, and had children
1. Thomas Tregonwell (d. bef. 1564)
2. Anne Tregonwell - md. Sir Richard Rede
3. Jane Tregonwell - md. Robert Thornhull, esq.
Sir John Tregonwell married (2) Elizabeth, widow of Robert Martin (and d/o Sir John Kellaway of Rockborne). They were married at Puddletown Church, 25 June 1549.
They had no children..........BUT
Anne Martin, eldest d/o Robert Martin & wife, Elizabeth Kellaway (d/o Sir John), married Thomas Tregonwell (s/o Sir John by his 1st wife, Elizabeth Bruce). Among their children was John Tregonwell who married Anne Sommaster, d/o William Sommaster of Somborne, Hants.
Anne Martin Tregonwell married (2) Sir Oliver Wallop.
This family lived at Milton Abbey. "Dame Elizabeth Kayleway Martin Tregonwell was accused of being a witch." [From "Somerset & Dorset Notes & Queries," (will give you exact ref. when it surfaces again)]
I have never figured out how to be neat.....papers shuffled and scattered everywhere!
Sherrill
________________________
Walter Berrington, below, must be the brother-in-law of Robert Keylway (of Rockborne) who married a Berington.
Somerset Will Abstracts, 1st Series, Brown, Rev. Frederick (1887)
p. 30. WALTER BERRINGTON, of Frome Selwood, Somerset, gent. Will dated 11 Mar 1600; proved 20 Nov 1600. [67 Wallop.]
-------My brothers Babham & Robert Kellway (1) of Lillington, Dorset, the younger, Exors.
-------My wife, Johan.
(1) For pedigree, see "Genealogist," N.S. iii. No. 10, p. 94. (April 1886)
Note that Walter Berrington refers to his "brother" Robert Kellway of Lillington, Dorset as "the younger." Does anyone know anything about "Babham" Kellway?
One more note about the Parish Register of Milborne Port, Somerset [S&DN&Q, V. 2]
"The plague, or some infectious disease known by that name, is noted on two occasions as having made its appearance at Milborne Port. Thus, on page 1 we read
'I find that in ye year 1579 there dyed sev'l persons of this parish in ye plague.' [Burials of 9 persons are given, including]
Clement Callow ye son of Richd. was buryd 27 August [1579]"
From:
Sherrill Williams
Sent: Feb 27, 2001
Subject: Dorset Tudor Subsidies
Warwick requested this.
"Dorset Tudor Subsidies Granted in 1523, 1543, 1593;" edited and published by T. L. Sloate, Lower Court, Almondsbury, Bristol {C} T. L.Sloate 1982.
The tax was assessed on"
L = Land owned
W = Wages earned
G = Goods owned
The tax was paid in shillings and pence. [The following info. is from xerox pages showing the K/C name]:
BLANDFORD DIVISION:
Tarrant Hinton tithing - 1594
Robert Kellaway, gent. G 6
[There were no K/C on the 1525 list, or the 1545 "Anticipation return"]
DORCHESTER DIVISION:
Charminster and Forston tithing - 1594
Ralph Kellawaie G 3
[There were no K/C on the 1545 "Charmyster" list, but: William Clark G 1;
Nicholas Clark G 1]
PUDDLETOWN HUNDRED:
Tolpuddle - 1525
James Purchas* G 10
(the * = "Norman" - this appears by a number of names throughout the lists)
William Gyfford W 1
[No K/C on this list]
Athelhampton - 1525
Christopher Martyn, Esq. G 120
Thomas Delamere* G nil
Athelhampton - 1545 (Anticipation return only)
Robert Martyn Esq. L 60 (the only person listed)
Athelhampton - 1594
Nicholas Martyn Esq. L 20
Milborne St Andrew - 1525
Edward Kaylwey G 20
Richard Kaylwey W 1
Milborne - 1545
Edward Kaylwaye G 15
John Kaylwaye G 10
Richard Kaylwaye G 1
John Kaylwaye jun G 1
THE LIBERTY OF DEWLISH:
The Manor of Develysche - 1525
Robert Kayle G 14
Edward Kaylwey G 3
Devylische - 1545
John Callowe G 2
Jane Kaylle wid G 5
Thomas Kaylle G 5
LIBERTY OF WYKE REGIS - ELWELL - and PORTLAND:
Wyke Regis - The Libertee of Weke - 1525
Nicholas Kaylwey W 1
Wik Regis - 1545
Nicholas Calawaye G 2
John Kalawaye G 1
CRANBORNE HUNDRED:
The Manor of Cramborne (subheading Burgus de Cramborne) - 1525
William Cayleway G 8
Bagber - 1545
William Kelway G 2
GILLINGHAM LIBERTY:
[Main roll 104/154 - no tithing headings given) - 1545
John Kelway G 1
BROWNSHALL HUNDRED:
Thornhill tithing in Stalbridge - 1525 [No K/C]
Thornhull - 1543, 1544, 1545
William Kaylwey G 5 G 5 G 5 (he was listed all 3
years)
BUCKLAND NEWTON HUNDRED:
Newton - 1543 and 1544
John Calowe G 1 (he was on 1543 list; not on 1544
Marnhull - 1525
William Clerke G 10
John Kaynell G 7
William Kaynell G 6 2/3
George Clerke G 10
Marnhull - 1543 and 1544
William Kaylwey G 9 G 7
George Kaylwey G 7 G 7
Nicholas Kaylwey G 6 G 4
Agnes Kaynell wid G 5 G 4
Thomas Kaynell G 3 G 2
Nicholas Kaylwey G 1 G 2
Thomas Kaylewey G 1 --------
Marnehull - 1598
Alice Keilwaye* L 1
William Keylwey G 4
John Keilwaye G 3
Redlane tithing in Todber - 1524
Nicholas Kaynell G 40
Redlane - 1525
John Kaynell W 1
John Kaynell jun W 1
Nicholas Kaynell G 40
Redlane - 1543 and 1544
Nicholas Kaylwey G 8 (1543)
Nicholas Kaynell G 9 (1544)
REDLANE HUNDRED:
East Stour tithing (Stour Estover in - 1525)
Thomas Kaywl(ell?) G 6
SHERBORNE HUNDRED:
Bradford Abbas tithing - 1524
(No K/C listed, but - Thomas Frampton G 8)
Also 1525 is "negative" for K/C.
Bradford - 1543, 1544, and 1545
Nicholas Callaware G 4 G 4 G 4
John Callaware G 3 G 3 G 3
Joan Calware ------- G 1 G 1
SHERBORNE DIVISION:
Lillington tithing - 1524 (Negative for K/C) - but
John Plokenott, John Master, Robert Master, Philip Master, Edith Master,
wid, William Master, Richard Master [was it not the will of Martin K. that mentions some land purchased from a "Masters" ?? None of the Masters were shown taxed for land.]
Lillington - 1525 (Negative for K/C)
Lillington - 1543 (mutilated and not used)
Lillington - 1544 and 1545
Robert Kaylwey L 30 L 30
[John Plucknott and several Master families still here - no land]
Lillington - 1598
Henry Keylway ar L 8 (the "ar" is not explained)
Abbots Fee tithing in Sherborne
Feod Abbatis - 1524 (the 1525 roll was illegible and not used)
Robert Kellett W 1
Abbots Fee - 1544 and 1545 (1543 roll torn & illegible)
Robert Calowe G 1 G 1
Eastbury tithing in Sherborne
Eastbery - 1524
Edith Kaylewey G 6 (she is also on "Estbery" 1525)
Estbury - 1543, 1544, 1545 - (Negative for K/C)
Eastbury - 1598 (Negative for K/C)
Houndstreet tithing in Sherborne
Hounstret - 1544 & Hounstrett - 1545
William Calowe G 7 G 7
(he was listed as William Calworth in 1545)
Milton Abbas Tithing
Mylton - 1525
John Kayleway G 4
Mylton - 1598 (Negative for K/C)
YETMINSTER HUNDRED:
Clifton Maybank tithing
Clefton - 1524
Peter Kaylway W 1
Clyfton - 1525
Peter Kaylway W 1
John Horsey Ar L 102
Clyfton - 1543 & 1544
Sir John Horsey Kt L 266 2/3 (the only person listed)
Clifton - 1598
Sir Ralph Horsy Kt L 60 (the only person listed)
TOTCOMBE HUNDRED:
Godmanstone tithing
Godmaston - 1598
Thomas Kelwey* L 1
Hawkchurch tithing
Hawkechurche - 1543 & 1544
Robert Clarke G 1 G 5
William Clarke ____ G 1
THE ANTICIPATION RETURN OF 1523 (called for advance payment of the 1524 subsidy from all those who were assessed at L 40 or more in lands or goods.)
The Dorchester Division is missing.
FRAMPTON Liberty:
Thomas Clerke 40
CULLIFORD TREE Hundred
John Gerard 100
PUDDLETOWN Hundred
Christopher Martyn 120
TOLLERFORD Hundred
Thomas Sydenham 40
Giles Strangwayes 300
BUCKLAND NEWTON Hundred
Nicholas Kaynell* 50
(* otherwise listed as Caylwey)
[There were none listed as Kellaway or Callaway var. on this 1523 Anticipation
Return....SUW]
...........................................................
[from Pat Schnurr's notes]:
"Dorset Tudor Muster Rolls," ed. by T. L. Sloate, Bristol
Gyles Kayleway (Gent.) of Bowode - would provide 1 harness with a bow; 1 sheff of arrows (1542)
Rob Kylwaye of Gyllyngham - provide 2 bills (1542)
Nic Calaway of Weymouth Burgess - listed as an alternate (1542)
Thomas Keyell of Midelton - provide horse harness, sallet pr, splint
Martin Keyleweye of Lillington, Knighton in Beer Hackett - Pikeman (1569)
Peter Calwaye - provide harness (1530)
Ric Cayleway of St. Andrew, Piddletown Hundred - provide 1 bill (1542)
Edward Caylewey of Piddletown Hundred - provide harness for an archer; sword & dagger (1542)
John Calwaye of Wyke - provide bow and 6 arrows (1542)
Henry Calawey of Weymouth - an alternate (1542)
[Question: Is the Peter Calwaye listed above, and the Peter listed at Clifton Maybank on the Tudor Subsidies, the same Peter mentioned on some of the "pedigrees" and "visitations" - showing no information?]
I hope this is helpful to all in building the K/C family tree.
Sherrill
From:
Warwick Kellaway
Sent: Mar 1, 2001
Subject: Dorset Tudor Subsidies
Sherrill
My head is spinning - a little more than usual. Your new information is swamping my little brain. I am too used to finding small surprise packages.
It is great.
Some responses:
I had no idea there were so many members of the Klan around Stalbridge/Marnhull in the early 1500s, as evidenced by those Tudor Subsidies. (Makes me think of rabbits). They are not listed there by 1594, but I presume the records have gone or were not available (this is not a criticism, but par for the course - the Heraldic Pedigrees were also rather selective). You had previously mentioned a plague in 1579, but I don't think it would have wiped out too many. Those things were a recurring means of population control for a long time, until 1665 in London at least, I think. The best known was the Black Death of 1348, but others were bad also (you know the Nursery Rhyme "Ring a Ring a Rosies"?).
Not many of our Klan appear to have held land - only Nicholas at Buckland Newton, Thomas Clerke(!) at Frampton, in 1523, and Robert who had Lillington in 1543. It is clear that Henry had reduced Lillington's size/value considerably by 1598. Alice, who may have been an unrecorded unmarried granddaughter of William of Stalbridge, had a very small property at Marnhull. She appears to have claimed Norman descent (why?). A Robert had considerable "goods" at Dewlish in 1523, while he was in Gillingham in 1542, Our mysterious third Robert (gent.) appears again at Blandford in1594.
Probably my greatest interest here, Nicholas, also had extensive "goods" at Todber, near Marnhull and Stalbridge, and was "working" at seaport Wyke Regis in the south. He appears to have been a Burgess in adjacent Weymouth in 1542. At this time he still had "goods" at Wyke Regis, but the value of his goods at Marnhull reduced slightly from 1543-4, while another Nicholas, presumably his son, increased his.
I presume these Nicholases were the father and grandfather of the Nicholas of the Forston/Charminster Nicholas, whose Will we have in 1594. In 1594 his heir Ralph I see is listed as having "goods" in Forston/Charminster.
The picture now moves back a little for this family but, as the first Nicholas must have been born about 1480, he appears now to be perhaps an unrecorded younger brother of "uncle" Robert and William of Stalbridge. He did seem to have done well in the wool/cloth business.
Those Clark/Clerkes are a real pain. I still have no idea where they came from, but Nicholas Clark of 1545 is probably also the "first" of the Nicholas Ks. Similarly Thomas Clerke in Frampton in 1523, may have passed through Robert and William Clarke in 1543 in Hawkechurch (location?), to Thomas Kelway (also descended from the Normans?) in in Godmanston in 1598.
George and William Clerke, and William K were also in Marnhull in 1523, while only George and William K were there in 1543, William K was there in 1598. It looks to me as though these Clarkes were definitely aliases, and the Godmanston and Charminster families of the next century were cousins, although there is still a nagging concern that they "stole" the name in some way.
You will be most interested in Peter, who appears at Clifton, Yetminster, in 1523 and 1530. My supposition is that he could have been born about 1470-80, and therefore may have been a son of Peter, a younger son of William of Sherborne's second family. There is no indication of any family extension in the Subsidies, however the Yetminster/Ryme Intrinsica locality, produced a number of families in the 16 -1700s. No more Peters I am aware of.
Most of these Dorset listings are in the northeast, near Stalbridge, with one or two further south. William at Cranborne in 1523 and Bagber in 1545, and Robert (gent) at Tarrant Hinton, Blandford, in 1594, are close to Rockborne.
It may be of note that, by 1594, family listings were only at:
Blandford Robert (gent)
Marnhull William
Alice
Lillington Henry
Charminster/
Forston Ralph
Godmanston Thomas
These are where we find most of the family in the next century. So where were the others?
Other comments:
No knowledge of any Babhams - K/C brother-in-law? Julian usually male, but beware of Johan, which was commonly female, unlike today. Francis could be either.
Don't worry about being neat - this place is a disaster - ask my wife!
Best wishes
Warwick
From: Bruce
Callaway
Sent: Mar 3, 2001
Subject: Rockbourne Manor
My dear Sherrill,
Not only is Warwick's brain spinning but also mine. Would you please hurry up and empty the final shoe-boxes, and get back to the U.K. for more vacuum cleaning. You are without equal in doing this.
Referring back to Rockbourne Manor (which I consider to be most important in the division of the names Callaway and Kellaway) I have come across a note written some seventeen years ago by Noel Layton (now deceased) whom I commissioned to reconstruct the coat of Arms of Sir John when he was resident at Rockbourne.
Noel was a veritable walking encyclopaedia on COA's. I will not JPEG his note, because it is hard to read, but give my interpretation of that note as follows:
In the Callaway coat of arms illustrated, the second quarter (argent, a fess gules, in chief a label of thee points azure) is very close to that of Romsey of Brecon, who bore argent, a fess gules, in chief a label of five points azure).
The third quarter in the illustrated arms is 'azure, ten bessants of, four, three, two and one.'" This seems to be the arms of Besiles, Besills (Worcestershire) and Bisset.
The pedigee supplied by Dr. Callaway indicates that William Callaway of Rockbourne Manor, and John Callaway the coppersmith (who married Elizabeth Knight) were brothers, both sons of John Callaway/Kellway ( the son of Sir John Callaway/Kelway).
But I think it more likely that William of Rockbourne manor was a brother, NOT a son John Callaway/Kelway. The latter appears in the I.O.W. records, and may be considered the founder of the I.O.W. branch .
William of Rockbourne manor is unlikely to have inherited the property from his grandfather, Sir John, if he, the former, was in fact the son of John of I.O.W., who is alluded to as "3rd son".
I merely include the above for the records as I empty out my shoe-boxes. Somewhere along the line, this and what you have sent through to us should be accessible to other researchers.
From:
Sherrill Williams
Sent: 3 March 2001
Subject: Keinell Keynell
Warwick & all,
The "rabbit warren" is at Marnhull! I think this parish needs to be studied, as we have so many "aliases" there. The new "alias," to me is "Keinell/Keynell. I seem to remember from Inquisitions p.m. or other civil matters requiring juries that a person with the surname Kaynell is on the juries with "John Kayleway."
Does this have a significance?
In Marnhull we have "alias George" (and I know nothing further about the George family), "alias Clarke" (and the Clarke's continue on and on), and the "alias Keinell/Keynell." It is difficult to tell which is the "real" family name, but I am tending to think that this "alias" family begins with the Nicholas Kellaway family.
Since beginning our English research I have asked many people about the motivation for assuming the "alias" names. No one has had a clear and logical answer. Do any of you have a clue?
The Register of Marnhull parish is attached. These records were extracted from several "transcriptions" on the shelves of the Dorset Record Office. They were done by different people, thus have different "styles." I copied the K/C references this past September (2000).
"Bulletin Bill," if you cannot deal with this Word document version, let me know. I will resend it to you in a "Works" version.
I look forward to the comments.
From:
Sherrill Williams
Sent: Mar 4, 2001
Subject: Heraldic Glass at Godney
[Godney is near Wells, Somerset]
"Somerset & Dorset Notes & Queries," Vol. 20 (1930-32), p. 206.
Heraldic Glass At Godney -- In the west window of Godney church are two shields of heraldic glass in somewhat fragmentary state. Whence and how did they come there? The present building was erected in 1839. Scratched on a piece of protective plain glass at the back of one shield is the inscription "Henry Woodlam, Painter, 1839, Bridgwater." This presumably dates their insertion.
I give a tentative description ---
(1). The first shield is, Quarterly, 1 and 4 (for Kelway), argent two brazier's irons sable in saltire between four pears gules (presumably, though the gules has faded to or, and in the fourth quarter only a small part of the brazier's irons and one pear are extant, the rest of the space being blank glass); 2, argent part of a leopard's head with two martlets sable above it, the rest being blank glass (the leopard's head was probably gules originally, though now the same hue as the Kelway pears); 3 (for Camel), azure a camel argent (almost the whole beast is extant, cramped into the dexter portion of the quarter, suggesting that another shield was impaled with it in the same quarter, though plain glass now fills the gap); over all on a shield of pretence (for Lyte), gules between three swans argent a chevron of the last charged with a fleur de lys or.
(2). The second shield is, Argent a chevron erminees between three birds sable (apparently ducks) winged argent, impaling gules between three swans argent a chevron of the last charged with a fleur de lys or.
(Actually only two birds appear in the dexter half of the shield, blank glass filling the gap).
The gules of the inescutcheon in the first window is a rich ruby colour, quite unlike the yellow hue of the charges and the tawny gules of the second shield. There are faint traces of diaper scroll-work in the gules and argent of the fields of both shields.
Hutchins' History of Dorset (Vol. II, page 361, of the two-volume edition of 1784) contains a description of some heraldic glass formerly in the Kelway mansion at Lillington, near Sherborne, which was demolished in the early part of the nineteenth century, a little before the erection of Godney's present church. Part of the description is as follows: ---
"In the North window"
1. A. a chevron Sa........ winged A. impaling G. a "chevron charged with a fleur de lys O. between three swans proper. Under it V.L."
[N.B. The marks of omission are Hutchins'.]
2. Quarterly, 1 and 4 Kelway; 2, a leopard's head G. between five martlets Sa.;. 3. Az a camel passant A. impaling, ermine a cross saltire Az; 2, a leopard's head G. "between three martlets Sa.; 3. Az. a camel passant A.; 4. Kelway. Under it B. G.
"In the South window"
1. Kelway and quarterings impaling, 1, G. a chevron between three swans proper; 2, S. and O. a demi-lion issuant S. Under it K. 1580 L.
Hutchins' description would seem to be faulty and inconsistent. One wonders what is the proper colour of a chevron! But it looks as though the Godney glass came from Lillington -- our shield No. (1) corresponding to the fourth in the excerpt from Hutchins, and our No. (2) to the first. If so, the glass appears to have suffered a good deal in removal and estoration, and the initials have disappeared.
The arms of Kelway, Lyte and Camel are easily recognisable. Whose are the others? Sir H. Maxwell Lyte tells me that while two male Lytes married Kelways, he can find no record of a male Kelway married to a Lyte. Can anyone supply further information? [signed] Harold Hughes
............................................................................
Interesting! If the windows from the Lillington manor house were moved to Godney church (c1838/9), who was responsible for that? Was it the Lytes? or Kellaways? I will explore these possibilities in our notes.
Sherrill
From:
Warwick Kellaway
Sent: Mar 8, 2001
Subject: Keynell
Sherrill
Some more valuable inf. from that shoebox. It must be deep, and you can retrieve so quickly. I suspected there was a separate Keynell family, and you have uncovered a potential connection some 250 years before Marnhull. Chippenham of course is very close to Kellaways Manor in Wiltshire, and Yatton Keynell is only 10km from the manor, on the other side of Chippenham. John de/le K/C, presumably the son of the 1285 John, was Verderer (similar to a Regarder?) for Chippenham, when he died in 1336. The 1285 John is probably also the man with the 1308 Dorset Will.
I can't really imagine that the Keynel family simply migrated to the Marnhull area in Dorset, so it does appear that there was a definite family relationship.
The confirming point could be that Marnhull is close to Stalbridge/Calewe Weston, where John le Calewe had been living. QED it seems the Keynels had had some sort of family relationship from the 1200s - a long time.
An interesting aspect for me is that I had never been quite sure that William of Sherborne was descended from the Wiltshire family, but as his grandson William went "back" to Stalbridge around 1500 and, presumably kickstarted the family in the area, the Wiltshire connection looks stronger.
Have a good vacation.
Warwick
From:
Sherrill Williams
Sent: Mar 7, 2001
Subject: veredictum of Chippenham Hundred
In looking over my notes taken at the Wiltshire Record Office, Trowbridge, in 1999, I came across some interesting information. This is from a book on the shelves there entitled "Collectanea" by N. J. Williams, M.A., D. Phil, ed.
(Wiltshire Records Branch, Vol. XII, 1956, Devizes)......pp. 52/53: The veredictum of Chippenham Hundred, 1281 - [veredictum = answers to the articles of the eyre made by jurors].
I won't go into all the details of this, except that the author is attempting to reconcile the lists of actual "jurors" from various "Rolls." Ouote: "The electors for the hundred [Chippenham] were Thomas de la Mare of Leigh Delamere, and William Middlehope, of Surrendel in Hullavington. Thomas was certainly a Knight. William may have possessed the property qualifications for knighthood (nominally holding L 20 worth of land). There is some uncertainty about the men they chose as colleagues for the list of them at the head of the veredictum does not agree with the list in the plea rolls of the eyre. They appear to have included at least three men of Knightly rank, though possibly unknighted: JOHN KAYLEWAY of Kellaways and ROBERT KEYNEL of Yatton Keynell, who in 1285 were both regarders of Chippenham forest, and Henry de la Box whose father had for long been one of the county's coroners. The others were ROBERT DE ASHLEY [for Bruce] who was presumably a tenant in Box; [others are named, including]: ROBERT WAYFER who had an estate at Sherston and Wellesley. ...................KAYLEWAYE, Box and Pedeworth lived to serve as jurors in the next, and last, Wiltshire eyre of 1289."
The name ROBERT KEYNEL caught my eye. The KEYNEL(L) name obviously goes back to ancient history with the Kellaways, and rises again as a Kellaway "alias" at Marnhull. Interesting?
Sherrill
From: Bill Piper
Sent: May 6, 2001
Subject: Queen's Chapel
Hello K400s,
My wife and I went to Sung Eucharist at The Queen's Chapel at St James' Palace, London, this morning.
I regret to report that there is no Callaway / Kellaway memorial tablet there. There are almost no memorials at all; only one, to Queen Alexandra, is on view. As the Chapel was originally a Roman Catholic church there were very few burials there, and the original church-yard is now under the tarmac of Marlborough Street. There may be tablets behind panelling, but almost certainly not of immediate interest to us. The floor is mostly wooden, and carpeted. Only the aisle is flagstone, unless there are flagstones below the wooden floor.
The church was built by Inigo Jones for Charles I, for the use of his queen, daughter of a French king. It is not large as city churches go, with limited gold decoration. Quite pretty. The service was very traditional anglican, using the old Book of Common Prayer. The choir boys are dressed in uniforms making them look like junior beefeaters. The present Queen does not come of course; the nearest contact was the preacher who was her chaplain.
However, I spoke to the verger afterwards. He proved to be a gentleman with some historical interest and knowledge, at least of the royal churches. He told me the names of those who had been buried at Queen's Chapel, all of them with high titles. When I mentioned Callaway / Kellaway he said, "Well we may have something here. There was an organist called Kelway...." I think he was referring to the Kelways of Chichester. See my page /dreycott/musical.htm
. Then he said that one or two people were researching that line. [i.e. K400s]
"Of course, that might be you!" Could be: I wrote to "the curator" during the winter when the Chapel was closed, to which I have had no reply. Is there someone else? We shall have to wait and see. I gave him my name and address, and he promised to write and put me in touch with the person who had written to him.
So the lady who noted "our" stone must have made a mistake about the location. The verger seemed to think that there are no Callaways buried in the royal chapels (which must include the Chapel Royal in St James Palace). I will try to confirm that. So where did she see it? Surely she cannot have imagined it. I wonder what my next move should be. It sounds like a lot of leg-work!
Bill
From:
Sherrill Williams with comments by Bruce
Sent: May 9, 2001
Subject: Rockborne parish register, Holloway
Bill,
enjoyed your report on one of the "Queen's Chapels." One down, and how many to go? At least you are visiting places about London you would never have thought of visiting. It is too bad that we cannot ask Marian Ford just "which" Queen's Chapel she visited? None of us have been in contact with the "verger" of Queen's Chapel. Wonder who would be questioning him about C/K?
Who else would know about this? - unless someone is reading your web page.
(YOU'ALL WILL HAVE NOW RECEIVED MY DISCOVERY OF THE QUEENS CHAPEL SAVOY, SAVOY WAY, JUST OFF THE STRAND AND WITHIN WALKING DISTANCE OF WESTMINSTER AND CHARING CROSS STATION)
Bruce, you did good - exceptionally good - on your visit to Hampshire Record Office. I commend you for staying with it and getting a view of the "real" Rockborne parish register, and the interpretive assistance of the archivist.
It is also interesting that you picked up on the "Holloway" surname. I have watched this surname since back when I saw it involved in a Chancery Case with the Wellington C/K's - information provided to us by Currer- Briggs years ago. I have found it amazing that the Holloways seem to show up where there are large concentrations of certain C/K's, and I have made note of that in my hand notes. One reason was that it is often difficult, in deciphering certain handwriting styles, to differentiate between an "H" and a "K".
(REFER TO PAGE 35 OF WARWICK'S CHRONICLES. HERE HE HAS REMINDED ME IS THE EXPLANATION FOR THE APPEARANCES OF THE HOLLOWAYS. THIS WAS WHAT WAS NAGGING IN THE BACK OF MY MIND AT WINCHESTER)
I will make an effort this year to find out where and how that family originated. I have not noticed any "knights," "Sirs," or "esquires" amongst them, but perhaps there is an intermarriage that we are unaware of.
What did you learn about "Caillouet"?????
(PASSED QUITE CLOSE TO THE VILLAGE OF CAILLOUET IN NORMANDY ON OUR TOUR AROUND FRANCE CARRYING AT ALL TIMES A CARD WITH THE SPELLING AND THAT OF CAILLOVET AND CAILLOU?T. WITHOUT EXCEPTION IN NORMANDY, BRITTAINY AND AQUITAINE THE LOCALS PRONOUNCED IT "KAIL...OH...WAY" AND BELIEVE ME I ASKED MANY MANY LOCALS. THERE WAS ONE NOTABLE EXCEPTION IN SAINTES NEAR COGNAC IN THE MARITIME CHARENTE WHERE THE LOCALS INSISTED THAT CAILLOU?T WOULD BE PRONOUNCED "KAIL...OO....WEE" AS DISTINCT FROM THE OTHER SPELLINGS WHICH THEY PRONOUNCED "KAIL...OH...VEY"
(Whilst this does not settle any arguments, and was rather unscientific Giles of Canada and Charles ..... could be well advised to undertake a similar encirclement of France!)
Bruce.
Sherrill
Note from Bill Piper: My son Charlie has visited the The Queen's Chapel of the Savoy and reports that there is no memorial stone there. Sorry Bruce!
From Sherrill, 10 May 2001
Hello friends,
We are now beginning to make plans for our September research trip to England. Perhaps some of you have some ideas on specific things we should pursue. I would like to hear from any of you on this subject. As it now stands, we will be working in the records offices of Somerset, Dorset, Devon and maybe Wiltshire during the first 2 week period. Then we will move again to Winchester, Hampshire for a few days of clean-up and follow-up, ending up at the PRO for, we are hoping, a longer time. There are many things there to investigate - the PCC wills, Inq. P.M. and Chancery records for an earlier period - and many other interesting things. So, if there are any "yearnings" for information, please inform me. It saves us time to have a "to do" list for each record office. The "kids" need to stay focused in the "candy store" so as not to waste precious time. At the PRO, if one has the exact references from the shelf catalogues, it is now possible to order copies of documents via the internet using a credit card. This promises to be very helpful due to the amount of time required to order up the documents and investigate them on site. These documents are delivered to you in huge storage boxes, sometimes having up to 100 different documents to sort through on the way to finding the one piece desired. Much time is devoured following the PRO processes.
Also, is there another C/K researcher on the ground in England with whom we should try to make contact? We want to do all we can to enlarge our circle. Please let me hear all of your wonderful ideas for continuing the research.
Sherrill
From:
Warwick kellaway
Sent: May 11, 2001
Subject: Somerset Musters
Sherrill
The information from the Somerset Musters is:
Burg of Wells, Hundred of Wellsforum:
Ablemen: John Kelway pekeman
Tything of South Petherton:
Ablemen: Hugh Callowe billman
Tything of Compton Dondon:
Armor: John Callowe (One tething corselet furnished one bow and one sheaf of arrows
iiij pair almain rivets furnished and iiij bills)
Tything of Chedseye:
Ablemen: Robert Callowe billman
Hundred of Cattysayshe, Tything of Renton Barton & Renweston:
Ablemen: Maithew Kelway pekeman
Tything of Weston:
Ablemen: William Kelway pekeman
Hundred of Taunton, Tything of Lighe:
Armor: William Kellwey - with others (One corselet etc).
Not very many. I, somewhat surprisingly, found no one at Cadbury, Charlton Mackerell, Chard, Henstrigge, Illminster, Sherston, Stoford, Wellygton or Yevell. There surely should have been someone at Wellington?
Were most of the family still at this time largely in Dorset and Devon? Or were the others largely tradesmen of limited means, or labourers? It may be simply that the men recorded were those of more standing than others, as they had to provide their own equipment, and would require themeans to do so. The pike was regarded as the principal warlike weapon, the strength and bulward of the field, the place for a gentleman to serve. (I wonder at this comment, as it sounds like front line infantry, hereas the cavalry might have been more appropriate). The pikeman had a dagger and broadsword, and wore a complete armoured corselet and helmet. The bill was originally a scythe sharpened on both edges, used for thrashing around, as in a massacre! The billman was usually furnished with almain rivets (a German form of half armour).
It could therefore be presumed that the pikemen were more highly ranked than billmen, those who supplied the armour were perhaps wealthier again, or maybe too old for combat.
I hope this is of value. There is also a little information I gleaned from the Register of another Walter Giffard, this one Bishop of Bath and Wells in the early 1200s. There are some interesting points, but they probably offer background, rather than anything specific about the family. For example:
William Earl of Gloucester founded a house of Austin Cannons (Augustinian Order) at Keynsham Wilts., on the south side of the River Avon, in 1166, the year his son Robert died. (Is there any connection there with Philip or Tytherton in 1165?)
William Lonspee, the presumed son of Henry II and Fair Rosamund, married Ela d'Evreux, the d & h of Patrick first Earl of Salisbury, in 1198. (Evreux is very near Caillouet). Earl William was buried in the Salisbury Cathedral he helped build.
The manors of Hinton and Norton were granted by the Conqueror to Edward of Salisbury, Sheriff of Wiltshire. They descended to William's widow, Countess Ela.
In 1232 Ela conferred the manors to the Carthusian monks, and the same day founded the house of Austin nuns at Laycock (near Tytherton), and Carthusian monks at Hinton.
Robert Bingham (later family connection) became Bishop of Salisbury in 1229.
As said previously, there are people, names and places that appear with our family, but at this stage there is no obvious connection.
It is great to hear you are off to England again. I still have some real problems around the Puncknowle/Portesham area in southern Dorset. We still hope to get over to Europe ourselves this year, but research time would be very limited, if we do get there.
Best wishes
Warwick
From:
Warwick kellaway
Sent: May 11, 2001
Subject: Rockborne and Hampshire
Bruce
I missed responding to your earlier message on William Kaylleway esq. in the general mele. No doubt there is still more to come.
You seem to have found one of the first clear references to the Rockborne branch at Fritham. He is possibly not the same William at Whitparish in 1492 nor Sherborne in 1497, but offers the first suggestion of mischief for some time. He could have been living at Rockborne since about 1470 at least, although it is not clear who was there before him, presumably not his father, if he remained at Sherborne. (I still think he was born about 1440) Mischief is one way we learn where they were at particular times, and they had been quiet for some time. 1485 was within a year of his receiving two commissions of array from Richard III, and it is interesting that later that year Henry Tudor defeated Richard at Bosworth Field. Was he by then a supporter of Henry - was he at Bosworth? Probably not, but was he actually a supporter of Richard? Presumably his New Forest misdemeanor (killing the King's deer was very serious) was forgotten when he was knighted by Henry 16 years later. Called an esquire in 1485, he was headed for knighthood then - perhaps he was made to wait until he was older and wiser? He died in 1507.
Just thoughts.
Regards|
Warwick
From: Bruce
Callaway
Sent: May 13, 2001
Subject: Tanguay
Hi Bill,
I have now had the opportunity to review Gilles' article. One of his main beefs is that Monseigner Cyprien Tanguay did not mention the surname <<Cayouette>> I will get later to his other post hoc ergo propter hoc arguments, but first a little bit about Mgr. Cyprian Tanguay from the Catholic Encyclopoedia:
Cyprian TANGUAY born Quebec 1819 died 1902 (ordained 1843). From 1867 his whole life was devoted to compiling parochial and historical records. He twice visited France for this purpose.
Published in 1871-90 his Dictionaire généologique, comprising seven large double column volumes of over 600 pages is unique and highly reliable. Every French Canadian by completing from contemporary registers the information supplied from this dictionary can proudly trace back his genealogy to his ancestors from old France. It has proved valuable for the canonical impediments to marriage through relationships. The Author received a prelature from Pope Leo X111 (1887)
Whilst I have not had the opportunity to study as yet Mgr. Tanguay's original documents (I note that they are available on CD Rom from Canada) there would be no reason for Narcisse-Euthrope Dionne in 1914 to seriously misquote the esteemed Monsiegneur. His only folly as I see it was to concoct a meaning for <<Cayouette>>, an obviously modern spelling of the pronunciation of the old name which had begun to creep into Canada (or maybe Louisiana). Certainly if the dear Mgr. had found meanings for such diverse names as <<CAHOUET...from Cahuette un petite maison ou cabane de paysan>> and <<CAYOU...from Cailloux, commune du department du Rhône>> I think that we will find that the Mgr. actually said that <<CAILLOUET...is from De Caillouet-Orgeville, commune du dép. de l'Eure, arr. d'Evreux...sorte de poire>>
We will see! His derogation of Dionne for saying that "<<CAILLOU>> means a kind of pear, a reptile or an insect!" is to my mind a rather bad 'one-liner'. Leave it to me, the C/K/C pear shall not forever remain green, but shall ripen to a more fruitful discussion!
Bruce
From: Bruce
Callaway
Sent: May 15, 2001
Subject: Rockbourne, Isle of Wight
Hi Sherrill,
For my part, I am still very interested in Rockbourne and the Isle of Wight. The K's and C's are inextricably tied in there, but there are important missing generations before and after the William of circa 1470. I still cannot therefor explain why the K's appeared almost exclusively on the western side of the Isle, whilst the C's remained on the Eastern side. The Isle after all is only about 40 by 20 kms ( very picturesque place and please note that all their Parish records are held on the Isle at Ryde and not in the records office in Winchester). The descendants of Sir John by his second marriage viz. Gyles (Giles), John, Henry and George are clouded with mystery and confusion, though at one time they owned considerable property. Whatever you do turn up I am sure will be of immense interest to all. I am confidant that your vacuum cleaning methods will again be fruitful!
Bruce
From:
Warwick Kellaway
Sent: May 15, 2001
Subject: Rockbourne
Yes Bruce, I agree that we know very little about those relatives of the Rockborne Knights. For me it also includes potential families of John, Edward and Ambrose, the brothers of ffrancis.
The senior family are reasonably well covered into Wiltshire, Somerset and Dorset, and the 1594 will of Nicholas (whose father we still do not know for sure) sent six sons out from Charminster, but for some reason (presumably not disgrace), the remnants of the Rockborne crew seem to have virtually vanished.
They must be around somewhere.
My information from the Dorset Protestations and later Chimney Tax may offer a clue or two, but few locations suggested people other than the Stalbridge, Stoford and Whitparish branches. I never did get my eyes on similar Protestation information from other Counties (evidently not released to the LDS).
There is one family around Broadwey (George died in 1661), that did not seem to fit the others, while I found an unusual, almost archaic, spelling at Winterborne Kingston in the late 1600s.
I suspect they mixed with the other families, and are therefore largely indistiguishable, but to have their own wealth in the mid 1500s, surely it would be retained by their descendants into the late 1500s and early 1600s?
Surely also the seven of them did have some male descendants. Could they have headed for the bright lights of London?
The IOW spelling conundrum is certainly strange, but it is apparent in other places as well (the Somerset Musters). 30-40km could be a considerable distance 300 years ago. Some areas were dominated by one spelling - Dorset for example - others not, but if a clerk in one place settled on a particular method, later people presumably just carried on. Kellaways manor had a series of differing C/K versions before the latest, which dates from 1857, including Calloes(!) in the mid 1800s.
I have to say I find the cayouette discussion something of a red herring.
Am quite happy with the standard version - it all seems perfectly logical, and if there is anything else, it needs to be proven.
So now we know where those Aussi rabbits came from!
Regards, Warwick
Introducing Emma Kellaway, 16 May 2001
I was looking at your website and was interested to see that you had a picture of the Kellaway coat of arms but that it had a rooster on top. My branch of the family is from Somerset in England and we have always had the same coat of arms but with a Lion/Tiger type animal at the top! - Where did you find the picture?
[Emma is related to Roberta McWhirter, and correspondence with Doug McWhirter followed her introduction to the group. Then discussion followed the heraldry line....]
From:
Sherrill Williams
Sent: May 18, 2001
Subject: Fairbairn's Crest
Good Morning, Gang -
Fairbairn's Crests compiled from the best authorities by James Fairbairn, Gen. Pub. Co., Baltimore, MD, 1963, deals with various "crests." Kellawaye, Dors., a cock, ar, combed and wattled, az. Kellaway or Kelloway of Stowford, Devonsh., a tiger passant regardant sa. Kellawaye of Sherborne, Dorset, a cock arg. combed and wattled az. [No "C" spelling]
Is it a "tiger" instead of a "lion"??? There is no drawing of the "tiger passant" but 2 drawings for the "cock." There are slight differences between the Sherborne "cock" and the "Dorset" cock.
From: Bruce
Callaway
Sent: May 19, 2001
Subject: Crests, Heraldry
A cock is not necessarily just a cock.
For to-days bit of trivia, and only if you have time I would refer you'all to a brilliant summary of heraldry by Joseph C. Wolf on http://heraldryorigins.tripod.com/ If you follow on you will find a lovely diagram and explanation of glaziers nippers on page 286 attributed to Kelloway, Wilts, and on page 449,pears, also attributed to the Kelloways.
With respect to Crests (fr.cimier) I quote from James Parker (1894) as I detect that we are about to be sidetracked into more research shortly!
"A figure anciently affixed to the helmet of every Commander for his distinction in the onfusion of battle, and in use before the hereditary bearing of a coat of armour.
They do not appear to have been considered as in any way connected with the family arms until the 14th century when Edward 111 conferred upon William Montacute, Earl of Salisbury, the right to bear an eagle. The earliest representation of a crest in mediaeval times is that on the seal of Richard the First on which a lion appears. The Royal crest of England....a lion...appears first in the reign of King Edward 111"
"The cock (fr.coq) sometimes called barn-door cock or dunghill-cock, but as other species are always mentioned with some additional epithet, no such distinction is necessary. The game-cock is sometimes specially named and so is the hen.
The Cock is found, though rarely, in ancient rolls of arms, and with the cock should be grouped the capon and the cockerell (fr.coquerelle).
It will be observed that the charge is borne sometimes for the sake of a play upon the name of the bearer.
A cock with the comb of a different tincture may be blazoned crested or combed (fr.cr?t?) of such tincture. So also with the gills, or uncelles, when the term jellopped (written frequently jowlopped) or wattled is used. Other terms are also found; armed; legged; spurred; beaked.
With the French the term 'hardi' is used when the right leg is raised "(you had better believe it!)" and in both French and English arms; crowing (fr.chantant) when the beak is represented as open"
So, that is to-day's bit of useful. Read it or delete
it. We will await the saga of the Lion versus the Chook. Still to be resolved
will be my ancient hypothesis that the K's and C's must at one time been
associated with glass manufacturing. (glaziers nippers). As this would have
been a very profitable pursuit in the 16th century (windows for Castles,
manors and homes) some of their wealth may have been derived from this. Some
of the product must still exist.
Cheers
Bruce
[I think some translation is required here. Americans and British may by now have realized that "chook" is Australian for your domestic fowl! - Ed]
From:
Sherrill Williams
Sent: May 15, 2001
Subject: will of Richard Caleway of Burton/Barton
Re: will of Richard Caleway of Burton/Barton - the map accompanying the parish map of Somerset in The Phillimore Atlas & Index of Parish Registers shows Barton St David as "Burton" St David. That should confirm just where Richard C. & family were situated. Compton Dundon village (where John Callowe was on the 1567 Som. muster list) is about 3 miles west of Barton David.
About 2 miles north of Barton David is the village and parish of Baltonsborough where the family of a Gyles Kelway was seated from abut 1629 to 1699 (parish register). Earlier in Baltonsborough a Thomas Callowe was resident when his son John was christened in 1539. Thomas Callowe was buried there in 1559. Johan Callowe was buried there in 1541 and William C. was buried in 1543. In Baltonsborough John Callowe married Johanna (Boole?) in May 1566. It was apparently their son, MARTIN, who was chr. there in July 1567.
The Baltonsborough parish register suggests "no link" between the earlier Thomas-William-John C. family with the later Gyles K. family. Thus, it would appear that the earlier Baltonsborough group of Thomas-William-John (with son Martin) are remnants of the Sherborne family - and the later Gyles K. bunch are remnants of the Rockborne family. This entire area under discussion, above, is just north of Somerton, Somerset.
The parish of Charlton Musgrove (borders Stourton, Wilts on the NE) has record of an earlier Giles K. family. Giles Kellwye was churchwarden there from 1574 thru 1597. His children are apparently: Jemes/James chr. 1571
Giles buried 1574
Wm. chr. 1574
Joan buried 1577
Niclas chr. 1579
A contemporary John Kellwye also had a son, Giles, christened at Charlton Musgrove in 1574. Possibly it is this Giles (s/o John) whose son, Giles was christened there in 1594. A Margaret, d/o Giles, was chr. at Charlton Musgrove in 1618. Is it possible that this latter Giles K. family is the one that appears in Baltonsborough by 1629?
About 2 miles slightly NW of Charlton Musgrove is the town or village of Bruton, It was in this neighborhood in 1546 that Thomas Othis/Ottis alias Calowe made his will. An abstract of that will follows in another note.
Sherrill
From:
Sherrill Williams
Sent: May 15, 2001
Subject: Somerset muster of 1567, Will of Richard Caleway
Good Morning, All,
Warwick's suggestion that the Somerset muster of 1567 reflected the more "affluent" C/K's is probably correct. I would think that there were C/K's at Wellington at that date.
The muster list has "Abelman: Matthew Kelway, pekeman" of the Hd. of Cattysayshe, Tything of Renton Barton & Renweston. This fits right into a will I am currently transcribing. The Somerset Record Office reference to this will is: Somerset Co. "Office Wills" - Richard Caleway, Burton,* 1544 DD/ct 1/24.
*I take issue with "Burton" in the reference. In the will it is certainly "Barton" which fits better with a reference in the will to "Butleigh field." Butleigh is quite near Barton David. Their is a place called "Burton" located up near Bristol Channel, about 3 1/2 miles east of East Quontoxhead, but this family does not appear in that region.
The will of Richard Caleway, dated 4 Januarie 1543, is written in a difficult script. I am yet laboring over it to be precise, but here is the "meat" from the will:
Richard Caleway requested his body to be buried in the church of Barton. And - he bequeated 4 pence to the church of St Andrew in Wells; and money to the said church of Barton plus an acre of "whete." Also to the church of Barton money for the maintenance of the church cross light & for maintenance of 2 tapers to burn upon the sacrament.
To son, MATTHEW, one acre of "whete"
To son, John of Glastonbury?, 2 bushels? of whete
To son, Wm?, acres of whete & 2 sheep [this son's name is abbreviated and difficult to read; still working on it]
To son, George, a young bullock & 2 sheep
To daughter, Agnes at Renweston? - acres of whete
To daughter, Alis, "acres of whete lying in Butleigh field," a hogge, 2 sheep
[There may be a bequest to another daughter; still working on it]
To wife, Isabell - the rest of goods not bequeathed, and she is "ordained" executrix.
Wits: John Tarkelett & John [indistinct]
The will was probated May 1544.
More than 100 years later, another Mathew Kelway made his will.
Briefly:
"Matthew Kelway of Butley," being sick of body (1652), made bequests to his children:
dau. Elinor; son, John; dau. Mary; dau. Joane; son, Thomas.
And in 1675, Elinor Kelway "of Butley" made a will with bequests to:
dau. ______ ?Fisher?; dau. Elinor ?Fisher;? grandchild John Kelway;
grandchild Joane Kellway; grandchild Mary Kellway; grandchild Thomas Kelway
(s/o John Kelway); son, John Kelway.
Wits. were: John Rayment & Grace Kelway.
So, it appears that this family remained around Butleigh for a number of generations.
I will be back shortly with the will of Thomas Calowe als Othis/Ottis of Bruton (Abbotts Cammel) shortly.
Sherrill
From:
Sherrill Williams
Sent: May 15, 2001
Subject: Will of Thomas Callowe als Othis, Bruton, 1554
The Somerset Record Office reference to this will is: Office Wills DD/ct 2/86. Will of Thomas Callowe als Othis, Bruton, 1554.
An excerpt of this will was published in a publication of SRO entitled "The Tudor Age, Sixteenth Century Documents from Somerset Record Office."
This was prepared for use by school teachers and students in the study of Tudor history. The excerpt from the above publication begins "The will of Thomas Othis alias Callowe of Abbots Camel 12 March 1546." The "Callowe" spelling of the name is not used in the actual will. Here is the actual will as I have been able to transcribe it (handwriting very similar to the previous will of Richard).
"In the name of God Amen the xijst daie of March in the year of o'r lord God i546 in the xxxvijth (37th) year of the Reygne of o'r sovereign lord Kynge Henry the viijth by the grace of God Kynge of England France & Ireland defender of the aforesaid yn court of the church of England and Ireland praise be god I Thomas Othis otherwise called Callo of Abbots Camel in ye County of Somerset yoeman hole & p'fect of mynd though I be sicke of body do ordyne & make my testament in this man'r First and principally I bequeath my soule unto Almighty god my maker and redeemer to o'r blessed lady & to all the holy companie of heaven my body to be buried in the church of Allhallows of [parish?] aforesaid in churchyard I bequeath to the cathedral church of ?Wells? xij d (12 pence) I bequeath to the church of Charlton Adam iij s. iij d. (3 shillings 3 pence) Item I give to the church of Chiltondyco? (dijco?) ............ and to myf(s)ton to ev'r'y of them ij s. Item I give to the church of Abbotts Camell xx (pounds) Item when John Othis my father gave a cow to the church towards maytenance of ij (2) tapers burning uppon the great candlesticks afore the sacrament I give and bequeath toward the mayteyance of the say ij tapers a other cowe with ij (2) kyen. I wish that Agnes my wyfe shall have in her keeping and use dureing her life and after her decease I wish that they be delivered unto the wardens of the sayd church and they to maynteyne the said ij tapers with the [.............] of them as they shall answer afore god for hit* Item I wish that Agnes my wyfe have all the goods that she brought to me moveable & unmoveable Also I give to Agnes my wyfe xij (12) pounds vj (6) shillings viij (8) pence ij (2) kye(n) ij oxen with a raigne [rein?] And a payre of [this appears to be parts of harnesses for the oxen, etc.] And all the corne in my barnes Item I wish that my wyfe shall have the occupancy of the said ij oxen with the [wagon?] and [undecipherable words] and all other man'r apparrell belonging to hit durynge her liffe and after her decease I will hit to Raffe bennet my servant? Item I give to Thomasine my daughter (money) Item I give to George Thomas (money) Item I give to every of my godchildren a hogge sheep Item I give to S'r(?) Richard Aydsby my ?gastly? father (money) Item I give unto Willm. Carpenter [can't yet determine his bequest] The rest of my goods not gyven nor bequeathed my debts payd and my legacies p'formed I give and bequeath to Agnes my wyfe And to Thomas ?Turner? my sonne in lawe whom I make & order to be myne executors that my last will may be p'formed & fulfilled. To this beareth witness Richard Aytson?, clerke, Richard longdon [two words} John Dampyes? and others.
(s) Thomas Cully
Probated (in Latin) 1554."
At the SRO I checked microfiche of the registers of Bruton Parish, and found it to be a typed transcription.
Fiche #1 covered up to the late 1640's and I read it all.
Fiche #2, beginning 1649 was not consulted.
Marriages, Bruton Parish:
4 Sept 1559. Willm Sargar & Margaret Callowe
28 May 1562. John Calowe als Otes & Joan Balle
Christenings, Bruton Parish:
11 Feb 1575. Robert Otts chr.
30 July 1578. Agnes Ottes chr.
12 Nov 1580. [blank] Ottes chr.
23 Nov 1609. Annia Oates, d/o Randolph Oates chr.
8 Nov 1612. Frances Kellwey, "son" of Willm. Kellwey chr.*
Burialls, Bruton Parish:
21 Oct 1558. John Ottes buried
23 Nov 1558. Joan Ottes buried
1 Nov 1582. John Otes buried
26 Dec. 1592. Alice Otes buried
1 Feb 1621. Xpian, w/o Ralph Otts buried
28 Dec 1623. Jone Kellwe buried*
23 July 1624. Captain Henry Barkly & his soldiers went from Bruton to ye
Seige of Breda in ye Lo Cuntries against Spina.
* Transcriptions found at the SOG library had 2 differences.
8 Nov 1612. "Francis" Kellway, s/o Willm Kellwey chr.
8 Nov 1623. Jone Kellwe buried.
Members of the "Plunknett" family were also in the parish of Bruton.
Sherrill
From:
Warwick Kellaway
Sent: May 20, 2001
Subject: Heraldry
Bruce,
For what it is worth, I got this information from Burkes General Armory some time ago:
Kellaway or Kelloway (Stowford Co. Devon):
Ar. two glaziers snippers in saltire betw. four pears sa. Crest - A tiger
pass. reguard.sa.
Kellawaye (Sherborne co. Dorset):
Same Arms, a border engr. of the last. Crest - A cock ar. combed and
wattled ar.
Kelloway (co. Hants. Visit 1634):
Ar five (!) grossing irons in saltire sa. betw. four Kelway pears ppr. a
border engr. of the second.
Crest - A cock ar comb, wattles beak and spurs ax.
Kelloway (Roborough co. Devon):
Ar five(!) grossing irons in saltire sa. betw four Kelway pears ppr. within
a bordure engr. of the second.
Kelloway:
Ar a saltire sa. betw. four pears pendant gu. Crest - A Barnacle bird ar.
Kelway:
Ar two thigh bones in saltire betw four pears or.
Crest - A bordure engr. of the second.
(I don't think there were any Cs.)
So what do you all make out of all that? Confused? That is why I did not worry about it too much before.
Note the tiger creeping out of Devon into Somerset apparently, the preference for Kelloway, a relatively uncommon spelling today, (except for eastern Canada), Roborough, which is not far from Dolton, the five grossing irons, and the thigh bone. Also note the five grossing irons in Hampshire.
(How do you get five bones between four pears anyway?)
Good luck, Warwick
From: Bruce
Callaway
Sent: May 20, 2001
Subject: Heraldry
Now didn't I tell you that we were about to be side-tracked, but it is important in the final analysis. The Thigh bone (femur) has a resemblance to the glaziers nippers (snippers etc.). Here we have a perfect example of corruption which is important. Whilst I have not personally seen these corruptions, I can readily assume that if Dad had for four grosing irons, someone would have to go one better and have five! Maybe this will tie things down to one or two generations.
I also guess that if Dad had a chook on his head, some of the 'kids' would want a barnacle bird or a tiger. The question remains who? and when?. To my mind these are markers which can be defined ultimately to dates and generations.
The bleeding nippers have thus far been ignored, and we haven't yet pinned down the pears. The indisputable fact is that for about two centuries, the K's & C's paraded a coat of Arms which has some consistencies. During this time they inherited and ultimately dissipated a huge amount of wealth and property, appeared at the Courts of two Royal Families, and left a trail which we are only just now picking up.
I agree that five into two doesn't go without a terrible corruption of the original and the psychology of inheritants which we never know.
Bruce
From:
Warwick Kellaway
Sent: May 21, 2001
Subject: Heraldry
Bruce, I really appreciated your earlier comments on the crests and whatnots, also note that we are just opening another can of worms (haven't noticed them appear yet - perhaps the chicken got them). Yes thigh bones are very similar to grossing irons, and I suspect they are just that, a corruption. The crests could give a subtle family definition at the time, probably quite early?
I still think that Sherborne Cathedral in the 1400s may well have been the source of the glaziers nippers, but how could you prove it. The pears also seem logical in terms of the actual fruit (they must have been around in the 1400s, just as they were in 1200). I doubt that few families could fully explain their own arms, only a few would even have names that match the arms (eg someone called Sparrow or Rose might have that situation).
We tend to forget now that previous commentators on the family differentiated only between two family branches, Devon and Dorset. It seems as though the Devon branch were described as the "younger", while the Hampshire Knights descended from the Dorset branch. If these facts(?) can be accepted, we have moved some distance towards resolution.
We know they moved around, and intermarried, so there was plenty of scope for variation, and confusion.
The spellings are a real question. However, as we know, these have changed quite drammatically over the centuries (Kellaways manor is a prime example).
Apart from using them for some assistance in location, we probably should not put too much emphasis there.
Whoever put the arms descriptions together, presumably with the approval of the College of Arms at the time, would also have been reflecting current opinion. Because there was probably no deep research possible, the varying family spellings were simply accepted as fact, and whatever arms they claimed, after some verification, were similarly accepted. I could not imagine anyone carrying out extensive research to determine the veracity, even if it was possible at the time. I still cannot imagine what five grossing irons and four pears look like on a shield. Try drawing it!e carrying out extensive research to determine the veracity, even if it was possible at the time. I still cannot imagine what five grossing irons and four pears look like on a shield. Try drawing it!
From Warwick, 21 May 2001
Hello Emma
Pleased to meet you. Interested also that you have New Zealand connections. The book I think would be by Enid Seton-Kellaway of Blenheim. She has Somerset connections, who are reasonably near mine, who came from Dorset, but I cannot find any link before about 1450 at least!
We are very interested in anything that can add to our growing family knowledge. Your grandfather was doing very well. If you have not yet accessed the early family history in the precis of The Chronicles, available on Bill Piper's website, I can forward a copy of the original.
Best wishes, Warwick
From Doug McWhirter, 20 May 2001 ( dated in the other hemisphere!)
Warwick:
Off line we have established that Emma is a second cousin, once removed, of my wife Roberta (Kellaway) McWhirter and also a cousin of Enid's. Their mutual family has lived in the Dorset and Somerset areas for several centuries and has a well documented family history although nothing that compares with your records dating to 1450.
Best wishes,
Douglas McWhirter
From: Sherrill
Williams
Sent: May 22, 2001
Subject: Yeovil parish register
Afternoon, Friends,
Fun aside, Piper you must make Emma's acquaintance, and arrange a meeting for us in September. Will give you more precise dates soon. The circle is growing, and I think I should add more of the interested people to my communication list. Tell me who else I should add.
The Yeovil connection is interesting to me, as it fit's right in to the Clifton Maybank thing I have been working on. I see from my notes from the 1997 trip that I read the microfiche of St. John, Yeovil parish register......or tried to. My comments were that the film was very poor, with much unreadable. I will re-visit the film this year, and if the original parish registers are at SRO, they may let me see them - now that we have gained some credibility at the records office.
From: Bruce
Callaway
Sent: May 22, 2001
Subject: John George Kellaway and Ann, Isle of Wight connection?
Rising early on a cold early winters day Sherrill, I trolled through your copy of the Register of Marnhull Parish, Dorset and was struck by the christening of one Richard the sonne of John George Kellaway ye younger & Ann his wife bapt 26th December 1641. He appeared to have a brother John baptised 1638. I note that a Richard died in Isle of Wight County Virginia in 1688. He apparently had a bother John also there. I note from the records that a Caleb died in I.O.W. County in 1706 and a Benjamin in 1712. Do you think there is any tie up?
From:
Sherrill Williams
Sent: May 25, 2001
Subject: Ambrose Kelway
Good morning, friends,
I just wanted to inform you of some information I have uncovered in the Court of Request documents. The particular one I am now deciphering concerns Ambrose Kelway. It seems that he was married to "Katerin" d/o Henry & Elizabeth Tryppocke (?-what is this name?), who was the widow of Robert White of Christchurch, Southt. Due to the deaths of Henry & Elizabeth T., Ambrose Kelway came into their manor "in right of his wife Katerin." There were two manors under discussion in this deposition: "Breamore Courtney" in Breamore parish, and "Over Burgate" in Fordingbridge parish. I am not sure which applies here, at this point.
A Katherine Kelway is listed in the Hampshire lay subsidy at Christchurch. Probably this is the now widow of Ambrose. I will give you all of this in detail, with documentation, as soon as I complete the reading of the document. It is written in a highly "stylized" handwriting - strong vertical strokes that look like "stick figures" marching across the page (no chooks on their heads, though).
From: Bruce
Callaway
Sent: May 26, 2001
Subject: Ambrose Kelway
Sherrill,
This is important and worth persuing. Both Warwick and I have Ambrose as the brother of Ffrancis. Breamore parish and Fordingbridge are within walking distance of Rockborne. The manor of Rockstead had originally belonged to the Priory of Breamore. After the Dissolution of the Monasteries in 1536 it passed through several lay hands, including those of Anne of Cleves, until it finally came into the possession of the K/C's in 1549. Thereafter the two manors (Rockstead and Rockborne), though retaining vestiges of their separate identity, were administered as one.
The manor of Breamore or Manors Breamore Courtney was an ancient demense of the Crown, and in 1086 was parcel of the royal manor of Rockbourne. A hide of land in the Isle of Wight belonged to the manor. By grant of Henry 1, Breamore passed to the Earls of Devon, lords of the Isle of Wight. Later, Edward 1 took possession of the manor as part of the manor of Christchurch Twyneham and it was the assigned to his consort Margaret of France.
Much more detail is contained in the V.C.H. Hants (Vol 4 pages 597-8) including a grant of the manor to Robert Keylway on 19 August 1547 -(Letters Patent 1 Mary,pt. x, m. 9).
I merely mention all this to justify my long held belief that much of the unravelled history of the K's and C's is tied up in a very small area of southern England. The K/C's (that is easier to type!) criss crossed this area for some 200 important years, owning, selling, marrying into and losing property (and knocking off a few dears and ears in the process!). ........ .Look forward to more Sherrill.
Bruce
From:
Warwick Kellaway
Sent: May 26, 2001
Subject: Ambrose Kelway
A nice bit of background. You must have had it readily to hand. I suspect literature from your recent visit.
Ambrose may well have a place in the saga. Did he have any descendants - do we know?
Fordingbridge also rings a bell with me somewhere. I can't think where, unless it is a Thomas Hardy novel. (Perhaps that was Casterbridge). [Fordingbridge is in Hampshire, but tucked into Dorset. It is midway between Bournmouth and Salisbury. - Bill]
Looking at the maps, it is clear that someone also moved west into Dorset, as there were a number of listings, and wills in the 1700s in Blandford Forum (Francis 1731), Gussage All Saints (Richard 1736), Moor Critchel (Joseph 1747),and Wimborne St Giles (Edward 1747). Some of these names seem to relate more to the Rockborne area than around Charminster and Piddlehinton, where I concentrated my own research, and I had wondered about the source. They are closer.
From:
Sherrill Williams
Sent: May 26, 2001
Subject: Ambrose Kelway, Brune family
Bruce, thanks for the enlightenment on Breamore Courtney, etc. I see now that I will have to spend more time with the Victoria History of Hampshire this year.
I have now read a few more lines of the difficult Ct. of Req. document, and it appears that the manor involved with Ambrose is Over Burgate. According to Phillimore's Parish Register Atlas, the parish registers for Fordingbridge begin 1642, Breamore 1675, Christchurch 1584 and Ringwood 1561. Fordingbridge and Breamore parishes, unfortunately, will not be very helpful to us.
I looked at Christchurch - the first fiche is dated 1576-1642. I found no C/K's, but noted that there were many Hollaways there.
It is the Hampshire Lay Subsidy, 1585, that shows Mrs. Katherine Kelway in the Hundred of Christchurche, Borough of Christchurche, taxed for land (30 pds/20s.)
Also, there is a PCC will for Katherine Kellawaye, Christchurche Tweynham, Southhants, 1592 [13 Nevell].
I will certainly try to get a copy of it this year at PRO.
On a web browse the other day, I ran into a page regarding the Brune family. It is not closely relevant to us, but there were a few interesting things. The Brunes were owners of Grange Farm in the parish of Rowner, Hampshire. Rowner parish (1583) is 2 miles west of Portsmouth. It is located at the tip of Titchfield parish, and just south of Fareham parish (1558). Here are a few paragraphs from the web page:
"Sir John Brune died in 1559 and left his estates, including Grange Farm, to his son Henry. As Henry was a minor he had to wait for his inheritance to be bought back for him from the Ward of Courts when he attained his majority. In 1571 he married ELIZABETH MARTYN, the eldest daughter of NICHOLAS MARTYN of Athelhampton. His son John was baptized in 1577 in St Mary Magdalene, Piddleton, together with his six sisters. Henry died in 1594, leaving Grange farm in trust to provide for his five surviving daughters.
The following year SIR NICHOLAS MARTYN died and left Athelhampton House to his four daughters as co-heiresses. The Brune family went on to acquire another two shares and by 1645 owned three-quarters of Athelhampton Manor.
[Source: Athelhampton Guidebook, researched and published by P. Cooke, 1995].
Henry's son John took over the advowson and Manor of Rowner, matriculated from Brasenose college, Oxford in 1594 and was knighted at Whitehall in 1619. Because he lived and was baptised in Dorset his name does not appear in the Parish Register nor on the Lay Subsidy Rolls of Rowner. His name does, however, appear on the Titchfield Hundred Muster Lists as furnishing a number of musketeers and corselettes. At this time the Brunes held land in Rowner and elsewhere in Hampshire, Isle of Wight and Dorset."
There was no C/K on the accompanying muster list (1635), but at Rowner is listed:
"William Knight" - furnished by "Widdowe Bassett and others"
"Richard Bassett" - furnished by Sir John Brewen"
The antecedants of the Brune family lived in Essex. Included on this webpage is "The presentment of the homage of the Courte Leete and law day holden for the liberty of Alverstoke and Gosporte the 6th of May 1645." A list of those who were "Absente" included: John Calloway 3s. [fined for non-appearance?].
Robert Frampton 8d. was also on the list. Further, a list of "Licensed Victuallers that Formerly were licensed" included Robert Frampton 3s. 4d.
Since I have trailed us off down to the Portsmouth area, this may be a good time to deal with the Fareham Parish Registers (1558-1690): A transcription and index by E.C.Cowte, M.B. & B. S., 11 June 1996):
[These items were listed separately, and you will note the conflicts; I know not why, and it makes not sense, but this is the way Mr. Cowte presented it. Also, all references were indexed under the "C" spelling, but some appear in the record with the "K" spelling.]
Gilbert Callaway, child/o Richard bapt. 13 Feb 1596
John Callaway, c/o William bapt. 24 Nov 1622
Ricahrd Callaway, c/o Gilbert bapt. 13 Feb 1596
Richard Callaway & Jone Collens married 14 Jan 1620
William Callaway, c/o John bapt. 24 Nov 1622
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Richard Kelway the sonne of Gylbard baptised 13 Februarie 1597
Richard Callaway maryed to Jonne Collens 14 Jannarye 1620
Wm. the sone of John Callaway bap: 24 November 1622
WICKHAM PARISH borders Fareham Parish on the north. Beginning about 1639 there are quite a number of entries involving Richard & Gilbert Callaway. However, 2 entries might be of interest. I will post the others later.
1560 - Wyllwym, the second sonne and heir to Mr. William Drydall* esquire was christened the xxixth day of September whose Godfathers were Sir William Paulett, son & heir to my Lord Saynt John, AND Sir William Calaway knight AND the right Honorable Ladye Dame Jane Countess of Southampton was his Godmother.
*Drydall - this name later appears to be written "Duedale." I don't know which is correct, if either.
1598 - Ellen Callaway was buryed ye 1st day of May.
The above should keep Bruce busy for a few days.
From:
Warwick Kellaway
Sent: May 27, 2001
Subject: Ambrose Kelway
Sherrill is continually offering little, or large, snips of information. I don't know quite why, but I suspect Ambrose, marrying a widow, left no family. ["I tend to agree with you." - Bruce] The Framptons presumably had an origin at Frampton Dorset, and have married into the family over a considerable period, up to the 1800s.
From: Warwick
Kellaway
Sent: July 2, 2001
Subject: JMF Kellaway
Nothing new to report. The CFA have prodded me into putting together my personal pedigree, and that has taken quite a bit of time. Very soon discovered that I had little of detail available. However with the help of the local FHC, and amazingly quickly (30 mins), have now tracked down my Stokes family (Canterbury Pilgrims of 1850) back to 1700, and probably back to the 1500s, through a succession of Williams, if I explore further. They lived suprisingly close to the Christian family on my Mother's side, from near Grantham in the Midlands (only a few km apart). Intriguingly both families were also strong Wesleyan/Methodists, which suggests the area was greatly influenced by John and Charles. The other curious thing is that, while much of our Country was settled by C of E, particularly Canterbury, there were a lot of Methodists in Christchurch, as evidenced by some fine Churches built only a few years after 1850. Methodists were not the wealthy members of society, but would include artisans. My theory is that a considerable number of Methodists came out as C of E.
Apart from the Christians on my Mother's side, there were the Kitchingmans and Newnhams from Kent, and Johnstons and Irelands from N. Ireland. My Aunt has just said G/Grandfather David Johnston, born c 1855, may have had an American father named Armstrong(?) My Father's side included the Martyns from the Channel Islands, the Fevers from Dorset, and the Ayres from I am not sure where yet. (If anyone has these names in their backgrounds?).
Whether it means anything or not, the Fevers produced a number of Rectors and Ministers in the 1700s, and the Kitchingman family have had a couple of Methodist Ministers this Century. There was also a Rev. Warwick Kelloway in Newfoundland! I have heard JMF Kellaway may have appointed himself a Salvation Army "Bouncer" in his later years (he died at 93). Perhaps I should apply for Sainthood?
Curiously six of my eight G/Grandparents died between 1919 and 1925. All eight were out here by 1878.
The exercise has had me wandering among siblings, including JMF K's brother Thomas, who died, with his daughter, in Christchuch in 1868, but arrived here through Melbourne. Must ask the Melbourne cousins if there is anything about him in the records there. Have also had to dig into my dear wife's family of Whittakers and Cowleys.
All of this probably means nothing over there, but it is fun - I think.
Best wishes
From:
Sherrill Williams
Sent: July 8, 2001
Subject: Serjeant Kelway
We are still interested in receiving your wish lists. If there is any place, or any subject any of you want us to check on, let me know.
Of course, Bulletin Bill is going to come help us at Taunton.
During our study session, I became interested in trying to figure out the identity of "Serjeant Kelway." Recall that a Dorset history in a section on Lillington says "Robert Kelway, esq., surveyor of the wards and liveries, was a descendant of Serjeant Kelway." In the process I turned up the following
From "A Descriptive Catalogue of Ancient Deeds in the PRO", Vol. IV #A.8458. (1483) [Kent; London]. Indenture between Thomas 'pryour' of the Priory or Church of the Holy Trynytee in London called 'Christchurch' and the convent of the same of the one part and John Bamma, squyer of the other part - mentions land within the parish of Dertford - to William Heryot, Knt., citizen and alderman of London, WYLLYAM CALLOWE, "serjeant of the lawe, John Brown, etc. 8 July 1 Richard III (1483). #A. 9806. (1483) [London]. Indenture of demise by William Heryot, Knight, citizen and alderman of London - to WILLIAM CALOWE, "serjeant at lawe," John Brown, Robert Percy & Thomas Asshby, gentl. [more regarding above]. 30 June, 1 Richard III. This is the only "serjeant" I can find mentioned in our notes and papers. The next question, then, is - Is this the same man who became the "first" WILLIAM CAYLEWAY, KNIGHT?
WILLIAM CALWEY was knighted 14 Nov 1501 - on the marriage of Arthur, prince of Wales.
From "Wiltshire Extents for Debts" - 56. Thomas Escourt, gentleman, of Fysshertowne Dalamere 6 July 18 Hne. VII (1503). "Capias" returnable in quin. of Hil. next [27 Jan], sued out by William Isaac, citizen and alderman of London, to whom Thomas Escourt acknowledged 300 marks on 7 Dec. 15 Hen. VII [1499] before Henry Colet, knight, mayor of the Staple of Westminster, payable at Christmas last. Like writs to the sheriffs of Lond., Dors., Som., Hants., Oxon., Mdx., and Glos. "Endorsed." The sheriff has taken Thomas and put him in the prison at Fyssherton within the city of New Salisbury in the custody of Henry Uvedale, esquire, keeper of the prison. WILLIAM KAYLEWAY, KNIGHT, former sheriff, has sent the writ to John Danvers, knight, sheriff.
6 Nov. 19 Hen. VII [1503]. Inquisition at New Salisbury before WILLIAM KAYLEWAY, KNIGHT, by John Botsilion, Henry Andrewes, Thomas Gaunt, William Score, John at Chamber, Robert Godwyn, William Lyte, John Rowde, John Tyngcok, John Bokebynder, Richard Strognell, Robert Thayne, John Cosyn and John Baker. Seised in his demesne as of fee of 2 messuages, 20 a. of meadow, and 12 a. of pasture in Newton worth 30s. yearly; 6 messuages, 100a. of land, 120 ac. of pasture and 6 a. of wood in Whiteparyssh (40s.) [and other messuages, etc. in "Stockton," "Babton," "Scheryngton" and "Tisbery." Also goods a horse, saddle and bridle worth 7s.
............................................................................
I have a note for which I cannot yet find the source, but I am searching 1508.
WILLIAM CAYLEWAY, KNIGHT, deceased - son & heir of John Cayleway.
My question is, do the above references apply to the same WILLIAM C/K? If so, then Warwick has it right on his chart - the "first" William C/K, knight is father of Sir John, and, thus, would be the grandfather of Robert of the Wards & Liveries. Robert of the W & L is the son of a brother of Sir John of Rockborne. Robert's bequests to his "cousins," Francis and Ambrose K. fits it all together perfectly. This, of course, means that the Victoria History of Hampshire got it all wrong in reciting the descendancy of Rockborne & Vernham Dean to Sir John Callaway. Possibly the Victoria history compilers left out a few generations of the C/K descent.
Critique it, please.
From: Warwick Kellaway
Sent: July 9, 2001
Subject: Williams
Hi Sherrill
I knew there would be something flying in the mail before long. The term Serjeant/Sergeant has been worrying me for some time, so looked it up in my grandfather's Collins Dictionary, vintage 1910-20. Today we see it as having military connotations, with a few side connections, such as sergeant-at-arms in a Lodge or Society. However one meaning was "a lawyer of the highest rank". Sergeant(r)y was also a kind of feudal tenure, while Grand Sergeanty was a particular kind of knight service, by which the tenant was bound to attend upon the king in person.
It is fairly obvious therefore that a "serjeant at lawe" would be person of some standing in law, and probably of considerable status in the land, and at the royal court. If William C/K was indeed a serjeant-at-law, that could have been enough to justify knighthood. He would have had a good family background, be from a family with wealth and education, and have been very well educated himself, presumably at either Oxford or Cambridge. When was William actually made serjeant-at-law? My reckoning is that he would have been about 43 in 1483.
I do not think it would have been a political appointment, fortunately, as the early 1480s were not a good time.
As I believe there was a second Robert of high status in law in the mid 1600s, after Robert Keilway, it seems the family had a strong and continuing presence in the law courts for nearly 200 years from before 1483. Whether there was only one serjeant-at-law at a time I am not sure.
A search of the historical records of the Law Society, or Inner Temple, or whatever is available, might throw some light on the family situation.
The complications of the various Williams is not so easy to resolve. I still have reservations over the phonetic pronunciation of Callowe, Cayleway and Calwey, in C or K versions, but have come to accept that the differing spellings must have had geographical justifications. Putting that aside, from my research there were two Williams on the scene by 1500 - William of Stalbridge, grandson of William of Sherborne, and William of Rockborne, the favoured son of his second family. It is possible some of the references could relate to our Stalbridge man, but I think it unlikely that he was anything more than a country gentleman. The background of Sir William suggests to me that, for some reason - possibly the inherited wealth of the Binghams - young William received a top education, and made the most of it. I suspect also that his mother ensured that he inherited Rockborne instead of his older half brother Thomas (father of the other William and Robert).
The records we have today of the family are confusing. Including some of the printed histories, such as the Victoria History. They did miss a few generations, as I think also did some of the much older Pedigrees. I have difficulty differentiating between the two Roberts, but am coming to accept that one may have been the Commissioner of the Peace in the West Country, the other the legal Robert Keilway, who was by far the most recorded. However I have still not seen any direct reference, in the pedigrees or elsewhere, to the latter being a son of Sir John, and remain of the opinion that he appears more likely to have been the son of William of Stalbridge. (I can be convinced otherwise.)
I hope this adds a little to the situation.
From: Bruce
Callaway
Sent: July 9, 2001
Subject: Serjeant Kelway
Hi All,
As Robert Kelway esq., surveyor of the wards and liveries, was a descendant of Serjeant Kelway, it is worthwhile pursuing as I believe that we all now acknowledge (vide Warwick's reply to the above) the missing generations from the Victoria History and other printed histories, which has plagued us all for years and led to the confusion of the 'legals' in the family. Said 'legals' were obviously related to the Knights of Rockbourne, and must have featured in the transactions of property inter alia, thus leaving a documented trail.
A quote I came upon (Fuller 1732) "The King can make a Sarjeant-at-lawe but not a lawyer".
Thus the full title was His or Her Majesties Serjeant-at-lawe. Further to Warwick's description from his Grandad's Collins, there is an excellent description of the office in the "History of the Order of the Coif" which can be reached on the hyperlink http//www.djh-law.com/coif.htm
Warwick's suggestion of a search of the historical records of the Law Society, or Inner Temple is worthy of consideration. In a preliminary attempt to pursue this via the internet however I have found that most of the historical legal documents are now held at the University of London's Institute of Advanced Legal studies at 17 Russell Square, Bloomsbury and is only available at horrendous cost to law students and Legal firms. Their suggested alternative to access historic manuscripts, has thus far proved beyond me.
I am at this moment in a totally confused state of mind about the Roberts, Williams and Thomas'. If only the old, long deceased bursar of Winchester College had done his work thoroughly before he 'shot off his mouth' to the compilers of the Victoria History of Hampshire, and thus inexcusably 'lost' so many of our ancient and valuable rels, we would not be in this mess!
From:
Sherrill Williams
Sent: July 10, 2001
Subject: Chancery Proceedings
Greetings all,
I have just begun an ambitious project which will take a few days. I am searching through all our records to find the names of manors and other land tracts (messuages, tenements, chantries, etc.) of which the C/K's were associated over time. It is not clear how this might be helpful, but perhaps it will offer clues as to which C/K was where, and when. We shall see.
In the meantime, let's examine some Chancery Proceedings, abstracted for CFA by Noel Currer-Briggs from records at PRO, and published in some earlier volumes of the Callaway Journal. These involve Lillington, Dorset. Which Henry Kellaway is this?
C3/278/64. [Charles I]. 6 Nov 1606
Bill of Complaint Henrie Kellaway of Lillington, Dorset, Esq. with one Henry Reade was bound in an obligation of L 44 for payment of L 22 about 8 years ago to Henrie White of the city of New Sarum, Wilts., gent., being the debt of Henrie Kellaway. To indemnify Henry Reade, Henry Kellaway bound to the latter for L80 against loss or damage. Henry Kellaway has paid L 22 and has asked Henry Reade to return bond between them, but he refuses.
12 Nov 1606. "Answer" of Henry Reade gentleman, defendant to the bill of compalint of Henry Kellaway, Esq. [not abstracted].
Complaint exhibited by "Robert Kellaway son of complainant" - says L 21 not paid by Henry Kellaway and Henry White sued them both in Trinity Terme in 34 Elizabeth and recovered the sum of L 40. Defendant often travelled to complainantshouse to entreat him to pay White his money, allowing judgement to stand for approximately 16 months. Defendant at the beginning of the Summer commenced a suit to recover the money by the bond in the court of the city of New Sarum. The complainant moved the cause by virtue of an Habeas corpus into his Highness bench.
Replication by Henry Kelwaye Esq. stating bill of complaint to be true.
A case involving Martin K's estate follows in a separate note.
From:
Sherrill Williams
Sent: July 10, 2001
Subject: Bill of Complaint of Richard Keylway
C2 Charles I. K.11/56. 13 February 1627.
[N. C-B note two inches of the right-hand margin of the document are severely damaged.]
Bill of Complaint of Richard Keylway, gent., one of the Clerks of Valentine Saunders, Esquire, one of the Six Attorneys or Clerks of Chancery.
Whereas Martin Keylway, gent. [several words missing] deceased, in his lifetime was seized in fee simple of an estate and inheritance in the Manor of Nether Lillington in the parish of [damaged] Martin K. made his will 4 December 1575 and bequeathed [damaged] as follows "And for the goodwill I the said Martin Keylway do bear to the name of the Keylways as also I desire by the Grace of God that all my lands may have continuance in the name of Keylways I give [damaged] ....testament unto the heirs of my body lawfully begotten all those my lands and tenements, etc. that I have before in this my last will devised to my wife Dorothie Keylway for her life after her decease [damaged]....for default of issue of me the said Martin Keylway [damaged].....unto my nephew Henry Keylway of Tichborne in the county of ?Wiltshire [note by N. C-B this passge is almost illegible. There is however a place called Tichborne in Hampshire which might well be correct] - Keylway the elder and Robert Keylway three other sons of the said William Keylway respectively and to the heirs male of every of their bodies and for want of such heirs to the right heirs of me the said Martin Keylway [damaged].......and to be begotten and to the said Henry Keylway and the heirs male of his body and to the said Thomas Keylway the younger [damaged]....and therefore I the said Martin keylway do by this my last will and testament [damaged]...... I appoint Henry Keylway executor and John Leweston, Robert Frampton, Thomas Mollins Esquires to be the overseers of this my last will and testament" [damaged]..... Martin Kelway died in December 1575 and in the January next following Henry Keylway proved the will and entered into possession of the said manor and lands.
Your Orator saith [damaged]......that such was the respect the said Martin Keylway did both long before and also at and after the making of the said will bear to "Thomas Keylway the younger" in the said Martin Keylway's will mentioned which Thomas [damaged].... unto your Orator and also the occasion why Martin Keylway was so careful of setting his lands etc. upon his kindred was for that he feared the said Henry Keylway would in time to [damaged]....and consume the same as he had done other lands left him by his father and therefore in regard he did bear special affection to your Orator's said father, being a younger brother and the fourth son of his father, and one of whom the said [damaged].....would often say he had done more for in settling the remainder of the lands so upon him than for all his other kindred except the said Henry Keylway. Martin Keylway did also before the making [damaged].....affirm and say to your Orator's father that he would have given him L 500 in money or land he did not think that he had not given a greater gift by appointing him and by the said will to be [damaged]....after Henry Keylway as aforesaid which the said Martin Keylway so did, the rather because Henry Keylway had been married many years and had no issue at the time of Martin Keylway's death and was wasteful and had [damaged]....estate which his father had left him as aforesaid. And your Orator further showeth that Henry Keylway not only proved Martin Keylway's will but also found an Inquisition Post Mortem of the said Martin Keylway [damaged]....the said entail by will was found at large. Also Henry Keylway by virtue thereof having entered and enjoyed the lands did for many years together offer to sell the lands devised unto him as aforesaid [damaged]....unto divers persons at several times insomuch that some were willing to have dealt with him for the same lands. But being advised by counsel concerning Henry Keylway's title [damaged]....limited unto him by the said will, dissuaded such as would have purchased the same from him [damaged].....Hurd, gent., wanting a convenient house for habitation proceeded in the purchase thereof at ord adventures and bought the said manor and lands from Henry Keylway. But before he concluded for the same he the said Hurd repaired to [damaged].......he being the son and heir of the said Thomas Keylway the younger, deceased, and consequently next in remainder entitled to the manor aforesaid by the will of Martin Keylway.
And the said William Hurd would have had your Orator [damaged]......[Note by N. C-B I would appear that the last damaged passage contains the name of the plaintiff or Orator, namely Richard Keylway, who was therefore the son of "Thomas Keylway the younger, deceased."]......reasonable composition have joined to the assurance which the said Henry Keylway and Robert his son of the said manor unto him, but your Orator refusing to do it the said William Hurd proceeded notwithstanding with the said Henry Keylway [damaged]....the same manor lands conveyed unto him and his heirs by the said Henry Keylway and Robert Keylway and by the colour thereof he entered and possessed himself of the said manor insomuch that when your Orator understood [damaged]......having taken counsel's advice upon the intent of Martin Keylway's will as touching your Orator's title and remainder, your Orator was advised to enter into the same [damaged].......and to bring the title to a trial of law. Thereupon your Orator made his entry in August 17 James I [damaged]........ and did make a lease thereof to one Walter Foy, gent., for five years, thereby to tune your Orator's title and afterwards Walter Foy did impede the said William Hurd by an [damaged]....... The Case went to trial in Lent Assizes for the county of Dorset, and the verdict [damaged].....[Note by N. C-B the next passage is extremely hard to understand since there are many folds, and much dirt on the parchment, but it appears that there were several trials which went to Appeal.
The next passage which is more or less legible reads as follows "matter of record the said manor and lands of Lillington then in the possession by the Sheriff of Dorset, and William Hurd wholely outed. Then one John [damaged].....one of the Clerks of Sir Laurence Washington, Kt., Registrar of this Court, understood he the said John Cole by himself or some other his friend on his behalf made means to deal with the said William Hurd for the said manor".......[N. C-B note this occupies about seven-eighths of the total parchment sheet. The rest is purely of legal interest and contains no further genealogical information.]
The Demurrer of John Cole, gent., Defendant.....It likewise appears by plaintiff's own showing that William Hurd obtained judgment in favour of Henry Keylway's and his own title.....[the rest of this Demurrer is only concerned with the legal niceties concerning the title and contains no genealogical information].
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Nice try, Richard! But I guess he lost. The property of Lillington did go to the Cole family. Does this help with "who is who"???
From: Bruce
Callaway
Sent: July 11, 2001
Subject: Robert Keilway of Salisbury, Wilts
Hi all,
Busy following the "Legals" and property owned by the K/C's (see below) and came across this interesting reference from rootsweb. Much of it has been covered by Warwick in his Chronicles, but there are a few bits of conflict and additions which may be relevant. Firstly he is referred to as Robert the second and his Father Robert the first. Any comments welcomed.
Bruce
Robert 11 Keilway born 1517 son of Robert Keilway 1 of Salisbury, Wilts. Educated Oxford and Inner Temple. Married by Feb. 1553 to Cecily. daughter of Edward Bulstrode of Hedgerley and Upton, Bucks. Cecily was the widow of Sir Alexander Unton (d.17 Dec.1547) of Wadley, Berks. They had one daughter Anne Keilway who was born at Combe Abbey.
Anne married in 1572 John 11 Harrington.
A reference follows [14688] KEILWAY. Robert 11 (1517-81), of the Inner Temple, London; Stepney, Mdx., and Coombe, Warws.
[14700] KEILWAY first appears, other than as a member of the Inner Temple, in 1543.
Although he owned the papers which were to be edited in1602 as Keilway's Reports, their author was almost certainly an older man who became a serjeant-at-law soon after 1508.
'Mr. Keilway' pleaded for Edward Seymour, Earl of Hertford, in a suit against Audley on 31 Mar.1544 and he was described as Hertford's servant when despatched by the Privy Council to join the earl in the north on 19 May 1545.
It was on Hertford's recommendation that Keilway was appointed surveyor of the wards and liveries.
Shortly after Keilway's purchase in Dec.1546 of the manor and advowson of Woodsford, Dorset, Hertford was licensed to alienate to him the avowdson of Homington church Wilts. and of a chantry at Salisbury.
[14702] Although returned for Salisbury in Jan. 1545, KEILWAY was replaced on 19 Nov. after the meeting of Parliament had been twice postponed, since by then he had accepted election at Bristol, where he became recorder by midsummer 1545 in succession to David Broke. Hertford, who had been constable of Bristol castle since 1517, and the city's steward since 1 Dec 1544, may have secured Keilway's appointment; it is also possible that Hertford's precursor as steward, Sir Edward Baynton, helped in the matter since the two men were close and Keilway was an overseer of Baynton's will. Keilway's family were no strangers to Bristol. A Robert Keilway of Lillington, Dorset, who may be identifiable with the Member, disposed of various properties in the city in the 1540's and 1550's, which had been aquired by an ancestor, William Keilway, about 1440 [14704] Hertford's appointment as Protector on 31 Jan. 1547, shortly after he became Duke of Somerset, brought KEILWAY into the limelight. In the autumn he was chosen reader at the Inner Temple, only to be discharged at Somerset's request, and in the following year he and Sir Walter Mildmay were given the task of controlling the dispersal of the chantries' wealth.
Keilway was also appointed to supervise [14706] 1548, in the second session of Edward V1's first Parliament. the bill 'for process and demurrers in the law' had been committed to Keilway after its first reading. Meanwhile he took part in several land transactions, alienating Woodsford in 1547 AND AQUIRING THE HAMPSHIRE MANOR OF ROCKSTEAD in the following year, in addition to acting as trustee for Somerset (Duke of) and Sir John Thynne. During 1548 Keilway approached Somerset on matters relating to Bristol and to Lady Jane Grey's visit to the city.
[14708] Keilway was endangered by the Protector's arrest in October 1549, for on 26 Nov. he had to enter a bond of £100 to present himself weekly before the Council. His appointment as surveyor of the wards had been secured in the teeth of opposition from its previous holder, Sir John Hynde, who in 1546 had threatened to baulk Keilway's promotion by having him made a serjeant-at-lawe. Hynde revived his claims, and on 7 Feb.1550 the Council resolved that Keilway should retain office but pay half his annual fee to his rival. Evidently Keilway's services were too valuable to lose, since on 14 Feb. he was released from his weekly appearances; he was also present for the whole of the last session of the Parliament of 1547 unlike so many other of Somerset's adherents.
On 4 July 1552 the chancellor was instructed to issue a writ that Keilway should become a serjeant-at-lawe. Although this did not have the effect of depriving him of his surveyorship, he did give up his recordership of Bristol and so forfeited the opportunity of serving for that city in the Parliament of March 1553.
[14710] Mary's reign was a relatively quiet interlude in Keilway's career. One who had been so closely involved in the despoiling of the chantries was not likely to be favoured by the Queen, although she retained him in the court of wards. On 6 Dec. 1553 Keilway obtained a lease of the demesne lands of Minster Lovell, which had been granted to his wife's first husband; in Dec. 1556 he also leased the site of Coombe abbey, Warwickshire with adjoining estates. After the death of Mary, Keilway was given many public duties under Elizabeth. Keilway died in February 1581.
.................................
CLISTON HAYES DEVON
In 1543 John Stephens, prebendary of Hayes, leased for 21 years the manor and Mansion of Hayes to Anthony Harvey. Stephens then sold the manor and prebend to Robert KELWAY Esq., surveyor of the Court of wards and liveries in1548. Kelway gave it to the King in 1550.
From:
Sherrill Williams
Sent: July 11, 2001
Subject: William Keilway
Bruce,
Good detective work. We also have a reference to Robert (of W & L) being the son of another Robert of "New Sarum" (Salisbury), Wilts. But, I can find no other record of such a Robert's existence. I do not think Robert (of W & L) descends directly from the Robert K's of Whelpley & Whitparish. If he were a descendant, why would they not have included such an "important" man in their pedigree during the various visitations?
Since Robert (of W & L) in his will left specific bequests to his "cousins" Francis, s/o Sir William K. (also a bequest to Lady K, wid. of Sir William), and Ambrose K (to whom he left a horse), I feel compelled to believe that he ties directly to the boys at Rockborne.
Your item #14702 is interesting, though misleading in stating - "A Robert Keilway of Lillington, Dorset, who may be identifiabel with the Member [Robt. of W & L?] disposed of various properties in the city [Bristol?] in the 1540's and 1550's which had been acquired by an ancestor, William Keilway, about 1440."
This William, who "acquired about 1440," may be the key to how these C/K's all tie together. Determining his identity is important. Forget the "county histories." It is back to the document catalogues at PRO for me.
I will study your findings carefully and try to put all into perspective. It once again becomes obvious that no one has ever done a "complete" study of our name in English records. My creed has always been - One must have ALL the records before drawing definitive conclusions! That worked in straightening out the Callaway families in America. It should work for the English family also.
From:
Sherrill Williams
Sent: July 11, 2001
Subject: Thomas Kayleway
Can we figure this out? It gives us the birth year of one of the Thomas K's.
Inquisition Post Mortem of WILLIAM CAMMELL [wife, Elizabeth]
Inquisition held 14 Nov, 22 Hen VII (1506)
Long before his death William Cammell was seised in fee of the manor & advowson of WEST PERLEY and of the manor of FYTYLFFORD & messuages therein - (goes into various ffeoffments, recoveries, indentures, etc. until these properties were to be assigned, after the Cammells deaths, to the use of Thomas Weston and his heirs.
Long before his death, William Cammell was seised of manors and lands in MORES, KYNTLESWURTH & UPWYMBOURNE PLECY. Use of these properties were assigned to Richard Weston & his heirs.
DORSET manor & advowson of WESTPERLEY, held of the king as of his duchy or York, as of his manor of CRAMBOURNE, and common pasture, etc in FYTYLFORD, BELL, STURMYNSTER, NEWTON CASTELL, OKEFFORD FITZPAYNE, CHILD OKEFFORD, STOURE PAYNE, ESTBAGBERE, WESTBAGBERE & COLBERE.
William Cammell died 29 March, 20 Hen VII (1504.
William Cammell's heirs were his sister, Katherine, late wife of Thomas Alwyn, aged 50, and THOMAS KAYLEWAY, son of his other sister, aged 30 years b. c1476).
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The above suggests that the pedigree, descending from Barrett, of the K's of Whitparish, is not quite correct. That pedigree shows that Henry Barrett married Joane Camell of Fittleford, Dorset. Their daughter, Jane Barrett, married William Keileway of Sherborne, Dorset as his first wife. William & Jane Barrett K. had
1. Thomas K (the elder) of Sherborne md. Leweston
2. William K.
3. Agnes (or Alice) - md. William Gawen of Norrington.
The Gawen pedigree shows that William Gawen married Alice Kelway, d/o Robert of New Sarum, Wilts, and they had a son Thomas Gawen ("only son, now living").
The will of Robert K. (of W & L), 1580, mentions a bequest to "my nephew Thomas Gawen, son of William Gawen, dec'd, a silver salt cellar." Thomas Gawen was also a witness to this will.
In reference to my previous email response to Bruce - the abstract of the will of Robert K. (of W & L) made by Noel Currer-Briggs states thus "To my cousin Francis Kelwaye, son and heir of Sir William Kelwaye, knight, deceased L 1000, and to Lady Kelwaye, Sr. William's widow, L 10."
That bequest to Francis K. of L 1000 is the largest bequest made by Robt. K. (except the remainder of his estate to his dau, Anne Harrington). The next largest bequest was L 200 "to the poor of Stepney." What is the significance of this "large" bequest to "cousin, Francis"????
Ponder on...................
From:
Warwick Kellaway
Sent: July 12, 2001
Subject: Robert
Bruce
I see we are working on our Robert in detail, and it is good to see some more information.
He has always presented something of a conundrum for me. While there is a huge amount available about him and his role, there so far has been no actual confirmation of his parentage. My original information on the early family came from the Heraldic Pedigrees.
These, dating from the 1500 and early 1600s, have proven generally accurate, up to now, although there have been some omissions, depending on the County. I never however found any reference to him specifically, although there were two Roberts, one the elder son of Thomas, the eldest son of William of Sherborne, who I deduce would have been born about 1460, and the second son of the second family of Thomas's son William (of Stalbridge). The second of these Roberts would therefore have been the nephew of the first Robert. He could have been born about 1497, which from later information was when I understood he had been born. He was said to be a great age when he died, and 84 would seem to match that scenario.
The 1517 date worries me. If correct he would have only been 64 - not too unusual. I had understood also that he was involved with treatises on law in the 1520s, and with family property in the 1530s. The son of Robert the first? If this can be substantiated we will have to rethink a lot of information - there may have been two of them - but who was the earlier Robert? His father - his uncle?
Have we confirmation of these "rootsweb" dates? Could the two Roberts have been the same man? There is some information of a Robert dying in 1558 - could he have been the man born in 1517? I seem to have been incorrect in thinking previously that our Robert might have had a daughter Alice, who married William Gawen. That Robert was living at New Sarum, not far from Salisbury - William may also have been another legal man. (Uncle Robert's son John had married a Jane Gawen).
John did live in Wiltshire, but there is no evidence of another (third?) Robert.
It could be uncle Robert who went to Salisbury?
Our Robert did live at Lillington, the home of Martin, the second son of the elder Robert. We know Martin left no descendants - hence the problem with his cousin Thomas's son Henry (possibly Thomas the elder). The two Thomases at that time would be the eldest sons of the two families of William of Stalbridge, and the brother and half brother of the second Robert.
Thus the second Robert, if our problem man, would have close connection with this family, and Lillington.
(By 1625 we are looking at Richard, the eldest son of a much younger Thomas, who I think was descended from the earlier younger Thomas. The Henry referred to in Martin's will could have been his brother John's son, or more likely his cousin Thomas's son, who appears to have left no family. Although his 1469 will does not detail extensive properties, I still think William of Sherborne is the 1440 reference.)
Back to Robert. My deduction follows that Robert's father, William of Stalbridge, was first cousin of Sir John of Rockborne. I have no information as to how Robert, if I am correct, came to associate so closely with the Rockborne family but, if he had, through his legal prowess and status, reached London by 1520-30, the Rockborne knights were already in position in Court society, and the name and family must have had influence. As his own family would presumably have been more country squires than courtiers, he could well have been accepted as a member of the Rockborne family. Elizabeth, Giles, John, Henry etc., were all younger than him, and he may have assumed a patronising roll of some sort. The younger Francis had a history of problems, particularly over money and, as the heir to the family estates, he may have been seen by Robert as needing assistance - money?
Until we unearth evidence to prove who his father actually was, I can only suggest that the Rockborne family were something of a foster family. He would not therefore appear in their pedigrees. His "real" family may have only mentioned him, without any particular reference to his importance, because of this same association.
I hope all this is not too confusing, and I may of course be wrong. If you look at my attempt to outline the family tree, with a reference to the notes in the Chronicles, it may be clearer as to what I mean.
From:
Sherrill Williams
Sent: July 12, 2001
Subject: Robert
Robert acquired an enormous amount of property rights from the Crown. One must wonder why he was in such favor. These deeds are interesting. - From "Exchequer, Augmentation Office, Ancient Deeds, Series BB (E328), Calendar and Index."
E328/126. 7 August 1548. Ratification by Edward, Duke of Somerset, Earl of Hertford, Viscount Beauchamp, Lord Seymour, K. G., Earl Marshal and Treasurer of England, Governor of King and Protector of Realm, patron of the prebend of Banbury, one of the prebends within the Cathedral Church of Lincoln, and Henry, Bishop of Lincoln, ordinary, Henry Parry, Clerk, late prebend of the prebend of Banbury, for money paid by Sir John Thynne, Kt. and ROBERT KEYLEWEY, ESQ., by indenture, 8 July 2 Edward VI, sold the prebend of Banbury and the parsonage of Banbury, co. Oxf., and all manors, etc. in Banbury, or in or near the Cathedral Church of Lincoln, in the City of Lincoln. Ratification of the sale.
E328/200. 1 August 1547. Indenture of Sale. (1) Edward, Duke of Somerset, Earl of Hertford, Viscount Beauchampe, Lord Seymour K. G., Earl Marshal of England and High Treasurer of same, Governor of King and Protector of his Realms, and (2) ROBERT KEYLWAY, ESQ.. Sale of messuages, etc., parcel of manor of Tollpudeel, in Northover, Southover, Tollpudwel and Pudeltowne, and in Isle of Purbeck, co. Dorset late monastery of Abbottesburye, advowson of parish church of Tollpudell; messuages in Cupernercham, p. of Romesey, co. Southt., late monastery of Romesey, also lands called Astrye Woode, otherwise Oystre common woodd, 400 a. called Abbey's woodde, otherwise Abbyes Common Woodd, 50 a. called Holborne wood, otherwise Holborne Common Woodde, 45 a. in Romesey, messuages, etc. in Langhydroch, Newton, Treffrye, Colyersforde, Cosmadeock, Trevene and Kyngeswoodhyll, co. Corn., late Priory of Bodmin, tithes in Langhydeock; lordship and manor of Nethewood, co. Heref., park of Nethwood, parcel of possessions of Earl of March; messuages in Tudenham, co. Suff., parcel of hundred of Lacheford, in Tudenham, late monastery of St. Edmundsbury; advowson of church of Ewren Courtney, co. Dorset. [This document contains the seal and signature of ROBERT KEYLWEY.]
E238/213. 4 December 1546. Indenture of sale. (1) Edward, Earl of Hertford K. G., Lord Great Chamberlain of England, and (2) ROBERT KEYLWEY, of the Inner Temple, gent.
Sale for L 244-3-4 of manor of Homyngton, co. Wilts, with advowson of Homyngton, and chantry of p. of St. Thomas in City of New Salisbury, messuages etc. in Homyngton, parcel of manor of Homyngton. [Seal & signature of ROBERT KEYLWEY.]
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In the History of Dorset (p. 194), in the article on Lillington, with an accompanying "pedigree" [From the Visitation Books, co. Wilts. and Dorset, 1565} there is a footnote regarding "Robert Keylway of Sherborne = Joan, dau. of John Marshal, of Evithorne, Somerset. The footnote reads (in part) "38 Hen. VIII, he had for 339L.16s.4d. a grant of the manors and advowsons of Burdeleston and Woodsford; also of lands in Westthroppe, in Southover, in Tolpuddle parish, and at Bardolfeston in the parish of Puddletown."
One wonders if the author has confused the ROBERTS! I will see if we have the footnote reference. I do not think that ROBERT of the W. & L. (and Inner Temple) is the same person as the ROBERT of Sherborne who married Joan Marshall.
From: Bruce
Callaway
Sent: July 13, 2001
Subject: Robert
I agree on this point. Isn't Warwick's chart great. I am constantly 'pouring' over it to follow the recent discussions. I would be even more lost than I now am without it! It is good to have a verified birthdate of one 'Thomas', and also to sort out Alice who married William Gawen.
This couple had a lot of children, consequently there are many references to this family, but they have so far proved a red herring. Let us not get off the track. The 'Roberts' are quite enough for the moment. Reviewing the article from rootsweb (whose complicated hyperlink I will append so that you just have to click on it hopefully) I can find no way to verify the 1517 birthdate quoted there of Robert of the W &L. In fact I detect a ? or a circa about this initially. I am sorry Warwick if this has caused you angst. I note from your Chronicles that he is buried at Exton Church, Rutlandshire, 'where there is a large coloured marble monument, with a long latin inscription'. Maybe this will confirm at least his birthdate, but probably not his Father. I am open to suggestions as to how we can sight this monument (may have to get son Pete on the job). It is an intriguing question as to why he left Ffrancis this huge amount of money. I have always blamed dear Ffrancis for carelessly dissipating 'Our inheritance'! He sure did make a hash of things and probably deserved his time imprisoned on the fleet, 'being totally lame and a creeple'. But don't forget that Robert of the W&L had a finger in many pies. I have mentioned the date of his purchase of Rockstead and its later merger with Rockbourne. Ffrancis was having his spats with Anthony Ashley Cooper, so well might have screamed for help from his wealthy cousin. All very intriguing, but I am reasonably certain of an explanation for the anomalies if we keep digging. Meantime my wife Dawn mildly complains that she finds me sitting in all sorts of odd places reading Warwick's Chronicles!
See what you can do with the rootsweb hyperlink.
http//papayne.rootsweb.com/d0010/f0000056.html
Don't be put off by the fact that is commences with Samuel WASHBURN/Abigail LEONARD.
Just scan down.
From: Bruce
Callaway
Sent: July 13, 2001
Subject: Laura Keilway and Sir Amias Paulet
Dear Warwick et al,
Let not Sherrill be the only one to throw confusion and angst amongst 'the researchers'.
Lets add a little to your chart. You have a sister of Sir John (1470-1547) married to a Sir Amias. By the same rootsweb page (which I hope you have all succesfully negotiated) I find that she actually married Sir Amias PAULET. She is described as Laura Keilway of Rockbourne Hants. They had a son Hugh PAULET who has many references on the rootsweb page. Is this the same Paulet that Robert of the W & L was associated.
Just trying to be helpful!
From:
Warwick Kellaway
Sent: July 13, 2001
Subject: Robert
Bruce
Before I look long at the latest mail, I shall try to clarify what I understand about Robert.
Much of my information has come through Brian Kelway Willoughby of Cheltenham. He unearthed a lot about the earliest family, and has a great list of wills -some of which I have not yet accessed. I have not heard from him for some time, so hope he is OK. Unfortunately he did not have e-mail, so I have to admit to allowing myself to be dominated by the electronic monster in past months.
However, checking back on his information, I see Members of Parliament (ref HofC 1509-58)
1510 Wm Webbe als Kellowe Salisbury (IIp230-c)
1523 Robert Keilway I Salisbury (Ip458-c)
1545,47 Robert Keilway II Bristol (Ip458-c)
1559 Robert KeilwayII Steyning (Ip458-c)
1586,89 Francis Keilway Lymington (IIp389-c)
1589 Simon Kelway Totnes
(IIp390-c)
This would confirm two Robert Ks.
As regards the Roberts themselves, Brian says the article refers to Keilways in Devon, Dorset, Gloucestershire and Rockborne. It concludes that Robert I was presumably a younger son, who settled in Salisbury. He became one of the richer citizens, being mayor of the City in 1516, and Member of Parliament for Salisbury in 1523. (Whether there is any connection with Mr Webbe we do not know.) He was born in or before 1483, and died in or after 1537. The volume identifies him as the "probable" father of Robert II. There are also a lot of suggestions of close connection with the Rockborne family - as a cousin etc.
(I still suspect him to be Robert, the son of Thomas, and husband of Joan Marshall)
Robert II is outlined as living from 1497-1581, and there is apparently a half page entry in the Dictionary of National Biography. The House of Commons history includes considerable material in two volumes (some of which he mentions). He was educated as a lawyer, and at the begining of Elizabeth's reign had already spent 20 years as a lawyer. He had grown rich on the sale of monastic lands and other commissions for the crown under various monarchs. He was the proprietor, and may have been the author or Legal Reports, which bear his name. His monument shows his daughter Anne and her husband kneeling before his recumbent form. His will was dated 6 July 1580, when he was about 83 years old, and offers further information. He was clearly a very wealthy man.
Exton is between Oakham and Stamford in Leicestershire, not far from where two of my GGparent families originate.
There is a small booboo in my family tree, whereby "Pawlett" slipped sideways under Lady Jane. Sorry I found it too late. Does that explain things?
From:
Sherrill Williams
Sent: July 14, 2001
Subject: Will of William Kayleway
We have spoken of this will previously, but I think we need to re-analyze it.
[27 Godyn - Fol. 224] Will of William Kayleway, "the elder," son of JOHN KAYLEWAY; late of Shirborne in co. Dorset - w.d. 21 May 1469; w.p. 1st July 1469.
Bequests to
-the Cathedral church of Salisbury
-the parish church of Shirborne - "my new missal"
-the Abbot of Shirborne
-the Vicar of Shirborne
-the almshouse of Shirborne
-the Prior & his brethren of Henton
-the White Friars of Bristol
-the Rector of la Grene of Shirborne
[Note Sherborne was under the eccleasiastical jurisdiction of the "Sarum and Royal
Peculiars" - Phillimore's Atlas of Parish Registers.]
-to William, my son - horses, saddles, bridles, etc.
-to John, son of the aforesaid William, my son - all my lands and tenements in the county of Bristol and in Yevell in co. Somerset, to John & heirs male of his body; in default of such heirs, the land & tenements shall remain in William, "brother" of said John, and to his male issue.
-to said William, my son, a chalice of silver, and in part overgilt, two phials of silver, one "paxbrede" of silver partly overgilt, my "second missal" and my breviary and all other necessaries belonging to my oratory in my messuages at Shirborne.
-to the said William, one silver cup which I had the gift of Joan, "mother of Joan," late my wife
-to the same William, one other silver cup called "Bollecuppe" to have and to hold the aforesaid chalice, etc. to the said William, my son, and to the heirs of his body issuing, and I will that none of my heirs, under pain of my anathema, disobey or break my will.
-to John, son of my said son, William, the residue of my jewels both silver and overgilt and to the male heirs of his body lawfully begotten.
-to William, son of my said son William, all my iron & "oode" [wode] which is in my cellar at Shirborne.
-to Agnes, daughter of said William my son, 40 li.
-to Alice, the other daughter of the said William, 40 li.
-Executors William K., my son & Thomas Cosyn, my clerk.
-And whereas my seal is unknown to many, I have procured the common seal of the Abbess and Convent of the House of B. V. M. of the Cistercian order of Tarent in the said county of Dorset to be affixed to these presents.
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Thus, we have
I John Kayleway
II William Kayleway, "the elder" (md. Joan, d/o Joan) [d. 1469,
Sherborne]
III A. William Kayleway
1. William K.
2. John K.
3. Agnes K.
4. Alice K.
B. John Kayleway
This will suggests that we should add another William K. generation to the lineage chart.
One other note "The Pedigree of Kelway, of Lillington" (from the Visitation Books, co. Wilts. and Dorset, 1565) notes that THOMAS K. of Sherborne (md. d/o Leweston, esq.) was "age 30 in 22 Hen VII" (1506). This would suggest that Thomas was born c1476. No source was provided for the "age" of Thomas as given in the pedigree.
From:
Warwick Kellaway
Sent: July 15, 2001
Subject: William Kayleway
Sherrill
William has always been an enigma for me. When I began research, I found the Stowford/Devon Pedigrees went back to about 1200, whereas the Sherborne/Dorset family only began with William about 1400. I had difficulty understanding his connection with Devon, Wiltshire, or anywhere, and could only assume he was a younger son of a lesser known individual, probably from Wiltshire, because the family had left there about 1400. It was some time before I had Gloucestershire, Mokesbeare, the Bingham family, and all the other bits and pieces that gradually added together. I knew something of Thomas and the Binghams, but had nothing definite. More and more has come to light, and one of the gems was the 1469 Will.
I had no difficulty matching it to William of Sherborne, (to have grandchildren when he died in 1469, he could have been born about 1400, and the second family of GC could have been young), but began to worry about the content. The bequests did not at first match my understanding of his children. The pedigrees had already said he had had two families, the elder through a son Thomas leading to the Wiltshire and Dorset families of the1500s, while the younger gave us the Rockborne knights. But why did the Bingham properties, and to a large extent the family fame, come through the younger family? I still have no real answer, but have to assume that either the older family was that, and Thomas had been given his inheritance much earlier, or that Thomas fell out of favour, perhaps through a step-mother, and his position was ignored. Perhaps both.
Looking at William's son William, and grandsons John and William, they match the first (Sir) William, and his sons (Sir) John and William. His other sons and grandchildren, from the pedigrees, are not there, apart from Alice, and perhaps Agnes, who may have been wrongly placed in the "tree". Some of the grandchildren may of course not have been born when he died. As the eldest son usually inherited everything, this could explain the omission of all the other sons, if William was favoured.
The omission of mention of Rockborne itself is a concern. My only thought is that William may have already given the Manor to favoured son William. He may also have given property to the older son Thomas earlier, perhaps his Sherborne estates. If this had occurred, there would be no need for further reference.
The other important find in the Will was William's father John. Apart from the confusion over centuries with Johns and Williams, there had been a John patron at Wiltshire until 1429.
There was also a John present at Sherborne shortly afterwards, when they burned the Abbey.
There is evidence of three Johns at Sherborne at this time, and William seemed to fit the position of a younger son of the first John from Wiltshire/Sherborne.
This could explain why there is no reference to his forebears in the pedigrees - too complicated - they no longer knew.
How he managed to marry heiress Joan Barrett is not clear, but the family was closely associated with the Courtenays, and may therefore have had some standing. I think he inherited the Bingham properties through his brother, who does not seem to have left descendants. The confusion firstly with the Thomases, then Williams and Johns, a century or more later, is probably understandable.
I have placed a lot of reliance on the early pedigrees, because they were closer to the time, but they do sometimes seem to mislead. Your 1565 Pedigree is a concern for me, as, if Thomas was 30 in 1506, and 1565 is comparatively close, and the age seems very definite, he looks to be a generation out on my scale! Either it, or some of the other pedigree information is incorrect. The others seemed to fit previously, so sorry -no explanation at this stage.
From: Bruce
Callaway
Sent: July 15, 2001
Subject: William Kayleway
I am 'hanging in there', but only just! If William K "the elder" has proved an enigma to Warwick, where does this leave me. However, from his chronicles he states that this will 'may refer to his second family, where the eldest son was William, to the exclusion of the children of his earlier marriage.' Certainly in the light of the will, William his son and John, William, Agnes and Alice his grandchildren should be added and followed. Lordy me! Do you girls have some digging still to do!. I am sorry that Brian Kelway Willoughby appears to have fallen out of the loop, as he appeared to have an enormous amount of research. Does anyone know where he may be? [Unfortunately Brian is not wired! - ed]
Personally my chart (lodged carefully in the Troup County Archives ) which shows my John who died in 1650 at Chale on the Isle of Wight, now appears to have his ancestors (also recorded on said chart) in a mess! As I have said before (quoting from an eminent genealogist) breaking the mediaeval barrier is something that few genealogist ever achieve.
From: Warwick
Kellaway
Sent: July 15, 2001
Subject: Joseph Kellaway, Edward, Robert and William Callaway, Thomas Calway,
et all
Bruce
I enjoy your comments. Yes there is a lot more available now, and no doubt we will still be modifying the detail for a long time.
I promise to write to Brian this week. I have checked through his copious sendings, and have the following names of those caught up in the Monmouth Uprising of 1685 Joseph Kellaway of Clifton Maybank Dorset "in the rebel army" - evidently hanged at Somerton.
Edward, Robert and William Callaway of Ilminster Somerset "in the late rebellion" - names presented for the assizes, fate unknown, but I think these three, possibly brothers, may have been transported (to the Americas?).
Thomas Calway "certificate allowed" - presented at Dorchester, his fate is not clear - he may have been duped into confessing and consequently hanged or transported.
Anyone's relatives?
There is a lot more - about the fire on the slaver Luxborough (William Kellaway Commander) in 1727 off Newfoundland, with a little cannibalism - the gold coin find at Lyme Regis in 1786 by George Kelway (he lost it), the memorial brass to Sir William Calwe in Ledbury Church c1410, the murder by Matilda (Kaylleweye) of her husband Richard Butler c 1220, etc.
ps I think Bill Piper has all this also
[Aye, see the last newsletter - also on /dreycott/newslett.htm]
From:
Sherrill Williams
Sent: July 15, 2001
Subject: Pedigree of WEBB of Odstock, Wilts & of Gret Canford, Dorset
The Pedigree of WEBB of Odstock, Wilts & of Gret Canford, Dorset (from History of Dorset)
I William Webb, alias Kellowe, mayor of Sarum, 1496; married ?
II William Webb, alias Kellowe, mayor of Sarum 1512 and 1514; md. (1)
Joan, widow of Stone; (2) Edith, wid of Long and Morgan; (3) Joan, living 1523.
III William Webb, mayor of Sarum 1523 and 1534; md. Catharine, d/o John Abarrow,* esq.
IV A. John Webb of Odstock, esq. M.P. for Sarum 1559; mayor there 1561; md. d/o of Thomas Wilsford of Hartridge, Kent.
B. William Webb of Sarum, mayor 1553 and 1562; M.P. there 1559.
The "alias Kellowe" stopped after the 2nd generation.
Arms Gules, a cross between four falcons or. Crest a demi eagle displayed, issuing out of a ducal coronet or.
*An Edward Abarrow was involved with the Rockborne knights & their land disputes.
From:
Sherrill Williams
Sent: Jul 15, 2001
Subject: Pomeroys
Please bear with me through the generations of Pomeroys, as it helps to confirm the dates. The Pomeroys claim descent from "Radulphus de Pomeraie of La Pomeraie in Normandy; came over with William the Conqueror who gave him 58 lordships in Devon and 2 in Somersetshire, was a benefactor to the Hospital of St. John the Baptist at Falaise in Normandy, and was appointed with another Commissioner to carry to the King's Treasury at Winchester the tax collected in Devon under the assessment made upon the Doomsday Survey."
Pomeroy (of Berry Pomeroy)
A number of generations after "Radulphus" we begin with
I Henry de la Pomeroy,* under age in 21 Hen III (1236); d. before 12 July
9 Edw. I (1280); md. Isolda d/o ? and widow of ? (d. abt. 6 Edw. III (1331/2)
II Sir Henry de la Pomeroy,* s. & h., born at Tregony, co. Cornwall (bapt.in church there 23
Apr. 1265); d. 33 Edw. I (1304) [Inq. p.m. #51]; married at age 16, (1 June 1281), amicia, d/o
Sir Geoffry de Camvile.
III Sir Henry de la Pomeroy,* (aged 14 years, 27 Sept 33 Edw. I (1304 [thus born c1290); d.
22 Oct 1637 [Inq. p.m. 41 Edw. I - (note by SUW must mean Edw. III as 1366/7 was the 41st
yr. of his reign]; married (1) Johanna, d/o John, Lord Mules; md (2) Elizabeth, d. & coh. of
John de Powderham. By 1st wife, Johanna
IV Thomas de la Pomeroy,* (youngest [5th] son; d. 1426; md. [unknown]
V Edward de la Pomeroy,* s. & h. (succeeded to Berry Pomeroy on death of Sir Thomas,
1426; sheriff of Devon, 10 Hen VI (1431); d. 1446 [Inq. p.m.]; married Margaret, d/o John
Bevile, & she d. 10 Sept 1461.
VI Henry de la Pomeroy,* s. & h., aged 30 at father's death [b. c1416]; d. 7 July 1481; md.
(1) Anna,* d/o Robert Cammell of Tittleford, Dorset (widow of Henry Barrett of Whiteparish,
Wilts - her 1st husband). There were no children by Anna Cammell Barret [but Anna
Cammell Barret's daughter, Joanna (md. William K. of Sherborne) is inserted ---see ahead];
md. (2) Alice, d/o John Raleigh of Fardell, Devon.
Children of Henry de la Pomeroy* & Alice Raleigh
1. Sir Richard Pomeroy,* age 30 in 1461/2 [b. c1431/2]; sheriff of Devon (1473); knighted at
the Bath on coronation of Queen Elizabeth, w/o Henry VII; d. 24 May 1496; md. Elizabeth, d.
& coh. of Richard Densell of Were, & widow of Martin Fortesque.
2. Sir Seintclere Pomeroy, Kt.; d. 31 May 1471; md. Katherine*, d/o Sir Phillip Courtenay, Kt.
of Powderham, & widow of Thomas Rogers (she afterwards married Sir William Huddesfield),
and she died 12 Jan 1515 [Inq. p.m. 7 Hen VIII #14] - her heir, son, George Rogers.
3. John Pomeroy - living 1496
4. Agnes - living 1496
5. Thomas Pomeroy,* (3rd son) - d. 29 Dec 1493 [Inq. p.m. 9 Hen VII]; md. AGNES,* d/o
JOHN KELLOWAY; held lands in Cheriton Fitzpaine &c. which were settled upon him and
Agnes his wife by her father, 20 Sept 1478. They had children POMEROY
(1) Agnes Pomeroy - md. (1) Thomas Tresoyle; (2) Thomas Fowell
(2) Anna Pomeroy - md. Tristram of Hengscot of Exeter
(3) Margaret Pomeroy
(4) Thomasine Pomeroy
(5) Elizabeth Pomeroy
(6) Thomas Pomeroy (age 12 at father's death = b. c1481)
(7) Richard Pomeroy of Rousdon, Devon; living 1531; md. Eleanor, d/o John
Coker of Maypowder, Devon.
INSERTED, as a descendant of Johanna* Barrett, who married William Kelloway of Sherborne, Dorset, is their son, JOHN KELLOWAY, whose daughter, Agnes K. (they say) married Thomas Pomeroy. "They say" that John K. gave his daughter, Agnes, and her husband, Thomas Pomeroy, the (manor?) Cheriton Fitzpaine.
*the note says "The descent thus noted is recited in an Inq.p.m. taken on the death of Katherine Huddesfield, who was widow of Sir Saintclere Pomeroy, 7 Hen VIII, #14." [I have added this Inq. p.m. to my "to do" list for this year; also the Inq. p.m. of Thomas Pomeroy, husband of Agnes Kelloway.....SUW]
Additional note by SUW In 1549/50, Thomas Pomeroy assigned or conveyed (in some manner) BERRY POMEROY to Giles Keylwaye, esq. This is apparently Thomas, husband of Agnes Kelloway.
Does anyone have information on "Cheriton Fitzpaine" as related to C/K's?
How does this stack-up, datewise, with the will of William "the elder" of Sherborne? Which Agnes K. is this? No wonder they were all so confused when the heralds dropped by!
[Comments on Cheriton Fitzpaine follow. - ed.]
From:
Warwick Kellaway
Sent: July 16, 2001
Subject: Pomeroys
Sherrill
It took me quite a while to place that John, but eventually I decided he was probably the second son of William of Sherborne's first family (referred to only in the Devon Pedigrees), and could have been born about 1430, with daughter Agnes born about 1455-60, and married just before John died in 1478. There were unfortunately too many Agneses. This one another granddaughter omitted from The Will.
I am not altogether sure about the Henry de la Pomeroy reference, where he married Joanna Barrett's mother. I would suggest Joanna was born about 1405-10, so that her mother might have been born c 1385-90 at the latest.
If Henry was born c 1416, that was 20-30 years later than his wife? Possible, but unusual. (Don't think it really matters).
The Thomas P who conveyed Berry Pomeroy to Giles K would presumably be Agnes's son.
I never found how the family acquired Cheriton Fitzpaine, although there were Paines in the family background.
From: Bruce
Callaway
Sent: July 17, 2001
Subject: Sherborne
Warwick
It must be there somewhere, but why do we refer to William of Sherborne. I have attempted to bring myself up to speed by trolling Sherborne Manor and Sherborne Abbey and Sherborne generally. The only thing that I have come up with, relates to the association of the C/K's one hundred years earlier. This was from my wife's purse (and not Google). Dawn beavered away whilst I was 'heads down' recently at the Hampshire records Office. She has recorded that on 19 March 1356, Orders were conferred by Bishop Eddington in his manor Chapel, on William CALEWE of IWERNE, dioc. Salisbury, ad tit. abbot of Sherborne and canon of Salisbury, and on 10 April 1356 said CALEWE of Iwerne was made Deacon.
Now Bishop Eddington could fill volumes. He modified Winchester Cathedral, installing some of its stained glass windows, (who used the glaziers nippers?) became Treasurer and Chancellor of England, and declined the nomination as Archbishop of Canterbury.
I note that Iwerne was formerly something else (Sherrill's notes from the will of William of Sherborne supplied by the English genealogist who was once commissioned). We really do have too many Williams, Johns and Roberts, let alone Agnesses. We certainly have a long way to go. I still consider Rockbourne to be absolutely pivotal dispite the Pomeroys. Maybe I am merely suffering from information overload. Do not stop on this account.
From:
Warwick Kellaway
Sent: July 17, 2001
Subject: William of Sherborne
Bruce
Sorry, but I am the culprit with William. When I started out some 99 years ago (act. about 12), I could only find the two families listed in the Heraldic Pedigrees and other sources - Stowford/Devon and Sherborne/Dorset. The Dorset Klan, to which I presumed I belonged, began with William. There was no-one earlier, apart from Philip in Wiltshire in 1165, and many of the Devon lot, who did trace back much earlier, seemingly became Staffords anyway. Information on Mokesbeare, Gloucestershire, Durham, and the Dorset Westons, surfaced later. William was obviously of considerable importance, but I could not find any information about him in Sherborne. Not with the Abbey, the Castle, nor Manor, but he was from Sherborne, and later evidence confirmed he lived there possibly most of his life. He was presumably there when the Abbey burned in 1436, and could have had a lot to do with the restoration, which I understand was completed about 1475, a few years after his death. (The glaziers snippers seem to have appeared on the family COA about 1500).
Because his descendants included Williams "of" Rockborne and Stalbridge, he had to have some differentiation, and Sherborne seemed to have some hidden story. More and more about him has surfaced, and he clearly had a position of some importance in Sherborne, and in Dorset. If however he was, as it appears, the second son, he had considerable limitations on social advancement. He did associate with the Courtenays, but would not normally be groomed for knighthood, as esquire or armiger, and not be able easily to access the Royal Court, as could his elder brother, and his Rockborne descendants. The Bingham inheritance, which established the Rockborne family, presumably came to him indirectly, although his own marriage to Joanne Barrett must have given him the financial security he would not otherwise achieve as a second son.
I would have suspected it might have been the Rockborne Knights who listed him as their progenitor originally, without necessarily knowing, or worrying who his family had been, but the Pedigrees actually made little or no reference to the Rockborne family. It may have been because of their growing troubles at he end of the 1500s, but it is more likely the Pedigrees were based around William's first family and their rural gentry situation.
My opinion is therefore that he perhaps was of secondary status himself while alive, compared with others in the family before and after, but has assumed much more importance for us today, because most of the Dorset, Wiltshire, Somerset, Hampshire and IOW, probably also many Devon, families appear to have descended from him.
How is all this for supposition?
Your Iwerne information is intriguing. There have been some tantalising references to the family in Dorset and Sherborne in the 1300s, and John Calewe brought much of that together. As Deacon, William presumably had no descendants, however William was a popular name among clergy at that time, with sir William at Ledbury and poor William eating his seals at Exeter.
The glaziers snippers aspect at Iwerene and/or Winchester, even Sherborne, could be of interest.
Good luck
Warwick
From: Bruce
Callaway
Sent: July 17, 2001
Subject: William of Sherborne
Bruce
Sorry, but I am the culprit with William. When I started out some 99 years ago (act. about 12), It is surely longer than that with what you have incredibly produced!
William was obviously of considerable importance....
Thanks Warwick for illucidating that point, but I cannot agree more on his importance. I was just worried that he had no apparent association in history with Sherbourne that I could detect. However, analysis of his will again suggests that he was of considerable wealth in those times. The original by Currier-Briggs (That was the name I was searching for) recorded on Kellchat and therefore Google indicates that he left "my new missal to the Parish Church of Shirborne; "and I will that the said missal shall be suitably illuminated and bound at my cost"
This only becomes relevant when you read further down." Item; I bequeath to the said William my son, a chalice of silver and in part overgilt, two phials of silver, one 'paxbrede' pf silver partly overgilt, my second missal and my breviary."
" What" do you say "is that mad C in Australia " on about this time !" What I am on about is that this is a 'throw-away' line, and may represent one of the earliest examples of the C/K's aquisitive instincts. (I presume) This missal is the one referred to in the Catholic Encyclopoedia, Bishop Edington of Winchester and recently aquired by the London Museum for a million pounds odd. See http//portico.bl.uk/information/Smissal.htm
It is one of the most important medieaval documents in existence, and from the evidence so presented was 'half-inched' by dear old William of 'Sherbourne'. All this may be not true or relevant, but I would like to think that the survival of the C/K's through the centuries has been because of their 'eye' for a 'quick quid' (This may require the Eds interpretaion for the International audience!)
Your Iwerne information is intriguing. There have been some tantalising references to the family in Dorset and Sherborne in the 1300s, and John Calewe brought much of that together. As Deacon, William presumably had no descendants, however William was a popular name among clergy at that time, with sir William at Ledbury and poor William eating his seals at Exeter.
The glaziers snippers aspect at Iwerene and/or Winchester, even Sherborne, could be of interest. I truly think they may be. (any ideas on the above Sherrill or am I drawing a long-bow?)
Good luck
From:
Warwick Kellaway
Sent: Jul 18, 2001
Subject: Church Missal
I had wondered where the Iwerne reference fitted. You clearly have access to much more information than is available here - Sydney University?
That, and Google, but I am absolutely hopeless when I find something in passing on the hyperlink.e.g. that to the missal (I left off one little "l") As I do believe it to be a good line of research I will try again! http//portico.bl.uk/information/smissal.html
I have sent this to myself, and find that it works! In the meantime I have lost the many other references to the missal!
I had missed the missal in the Will, but knew nothing of any other relevance. Is this clearly the same million pound object? (I was not able to access the web site reference, but that is quite usual for me.) I presume the history of the missal was recorded back through dear old Bill, which they seem to be able to do, and would be fascinating?
I am surprised that a Church Missal got into the family possession before the Dissolutions of the 1540s, but perhaps something occured when the Abbey burned - the Parish Church formed part of the Abbey. The reference seems to be the "new" missal, as the important item, which suggests it was his, and new about 1469? The "second" missal must have been older, and may be the one referred to, but was it of any importance by comparison - being called the second?
There is a good story there anyway. If the family were good at half inching things, I have not inherited any skills - always broke! Can the C/Klan claim it back - compensation? The land Rights of the original indiginous inhabitants of Australia has been very successfully executed. They now own about one third of the land mass because of finding important historical sacred sites (often within a stones throw of a newly discovered mineral or natural gas source!) Who knows that if we keep digging, what we may be able to claim back!
I see Iwerne (Minster?) is in the heart of family fields in Dorset, but this seems to be the first reference. Yes I believe this to be St. Marys. I will try another hyperlink on you'all where this is referenced along with a lot more relevant information. Fingers crossed.
http//www.thedorsetpage.com/
Follow the links through this site (churches etc.) Keep up the good work.
From:
Warwick Kellaway
Sent: Jul 19, 2001
Subject: Church Missal
Bruce
I am very intrigued by this Missal thing. Have now got a picture of it - even if only the cover. 536 x 380 x 694 pages, and it weighs as much as a seven year old child? It is only worth 5.5 million pounds !!!
Yes! I underestimated its value The Northumberlands obviously had owned it for some time, but there is evidence that some of our lot had had their hands on it? My suspicion is that the Northumberlands, or their predecessors, got it at the time of the Dissolutions, or did they collect it as part of the C/K family debts around 1600? Do we know?
I am slowly working on that. As it is only a recent aquisition by the London Museum there is not a lot else yet available on the web, but I have no doubt that it is being pored over by the antiquarians, and it will not be long before previous owners will be revealed.
My feeling is that William's two Missals would be very much smaller, more personal editions....
I have been over his will a number of times. He was extremely wealthy. He went to great lengths to bequeath all sorts of things to the church. That he kept a missal, then left another one to the church, to-gether with funds to have it 'suitably illuminated and bound' suggests that the one he kept was already illuminated and bound and thought of as impressive enough to be mentioned in his will.
......the Bishop would have been very concerned that some individual named William had got his hands on the Abbey Missal in the 1400s - in fact he would have been in very serious trouble if found out - could have lost his hands - crimes against the Church were heavily penalised. The fire might have been an opportunity - but how could you hide an object that big? I was being facetious when I mentioned him pinching it. His huge payola to the church, must suggest that he had intimate connections with the hierarchy at that time (or maybe ensuring his soul went in the right direction!) I think the burning of the church has relevance as to how the original missal came into his possession. My forensic 'bent' has me off and running on the missal thing. It is a great diversion from painting and repairing the house.
Best wishes,
I await the next lesson.
From: Bruce
Callaway
Sent: Jul 22, 2001
Subject: will of William Webbe
Sherrill,
From rootsweb"According to a statement in his will, William Webbe was christened in the church of St. Lawrence at Shaftsbury. His parentage is unknown, but his use of the alias 'Kellowe' in his will raises the possibility that he was an ilegitimate offspring of one of the Keilway family of Dorset and thus perhaps related by blood to Robert Keilway 1. If Webbe was a bastard it did not impede his progress, for by the end of the 15th century he had become one of the richest merchants of Salisbury. He may have started his career in Southampton, an important outlet for the the Wiltshire cloth trade, where he built the so-called Church House in Crane Street. Poole was probably another port through which Webbe exported his goods, since both his son and grandson did so, whilst his daughter married a merchant of that town. [14842] "
"Webbe made his will on 13 July 1523, describing himself as 'William Kellowe or William Webbe of the city of New Sarum, mercer and merchant' and asking to be buried in the church of St. Thomas, where his three wives already lay. He made bequests to his daughter Cecily, the wife of Thomas White of Poole, and her three children, as well as to the children of his second wife by her two earlier marriages. The chief beneficiary and sole executor was his son William." details in ref;[14848]
[14836] Born by 1466. married (1) Joan, widow of one Stone of Salisbury, one sone William Webbe 11 and one daughter Cecily (2)Edith, widow of Robert Long who dies in 1501 who was from Steeple Ashton (3) Joan 11.
[14844]Webbe performed many special duties for the corporation of Salisbury and during his second mayoralty he presided over the rules for public order to be approved by the King's justices. He had three terms as mayor Footnote Old Sarum in Wiltshire was a rotten borough i.e. a parliamentary seat with only a few voters. Salisbury was New Sarum. Hope the above clears up a few things.
From Bruce (22 July 2001)
I have encountered so many references to Cheriton Fitzpaine, that I am bogged down. What everyone sees in the place is beyond me at the moment. It is only a little village with about 800 residents! However, Berry Pomeroy is another issue, and I am exploring that. Lest you'all think that we 'Internationals' are slacking, I am going to try another hyperlink on you to see what you can do with it.
From: Bruce
Callaway
Sent: Jul 23, 2001
Subject: Sherborne Missal
(To MSS@bl.uk The British Library, 96 Euston Rd. LONDON NW1)
Sir/Madam
I have followed with interest the aquisition of this most important medieaval Sherbourne missal which is now displayed in the John Ritblat Gallery. My impression is that it was in the possession of the Dukes of Northumberland for many centuries.
As a genealogical enthusiast, I believe that it was at one time in the possession of a remote ancestor, one William Keilway of Sherbourne who died in 1469 who in a will, mentions two missals, one which he refers to as his 'new' one which he left to the Church of Sherbourne to-gether with sizeable funds for it to be suitably bound and illuminated (therefore obviously not the Sherbourne missal). The second missal was bequeathed to his heir along with other items of huge value, and therefore, must have been considered at that time important enough to be so delineated.
My specific question is, could you advise me of anyone who has traced the history of the Sherbourne missal. I would be most grateful for any contacts or advices.
Sincerely,
Dr. Bruce Callaway
Sydney Australia
From: Bill Piper
Sent: Jul 22, 2001
Subject: Church Missal
Hello all,
Reading through the Kellchat pages I am moved to ask two questions.
1. Why is it believed that the missal bequeathed by William K to the church is that same one now on display in the British Museum? (If it is that big, I cannot imagine it being stuck in someone's back pocket on his way to church.)
Good question. It was I, Bruce who started the rumour. You will now witness my frantic attempts to justify it!!
2. Do we know the compiler of the Rootsweb data? Should we? I gather you all think the stuff is reliable.
I believe about as reliable as the history books. It is run by one David S. Payne at Ancestry.com and is one of the oldest genealogical websites.
Unfortunately the contributors cannot be accessed due to it's privacy rules. I would be interested in what you'all think. Try it at http//www.rootsweb.com/
Best wishes,
Bill
Reply from B.M. (23 July)
Dear Dr. Callaway,
Thank you for your e-mail concerning the Sherborne Missal. There is an excellent book about the manuscript written by one of our curators who has since retired. It is called simply "The Sherborne Missal", by Janet Backhouse, and published by The British Library. I hope that this is helpful.
Yours sincerely,
Elaine Jacobs Manuscript Enquiries
From:
Sherrill Williams
Sent: Jul 23, 2001
Subject: will of Mrs. Katherine Kellewaye of Christchurch
The "Sherborne Missal" is extremely interesting. A visit to the British Library in September to view it must be on the agenda - also a peek at the book referred to by Elaine Jacobs. Do you think we will ever know the true story of the origin of the "missal"?
Being curious about the ancestry of the 12th Duke of Northumberland, I did a bit of research. I learned that the the 1st Duke of N. was Vicount Lisle (later Earl of Warwick and duke of Northumberland). He was John Dudley, son of Edmund Dudley (Henry VII's councillor). The 1st Duke of N. "obtained unhindered power to command in the name of Edward VI & became the quasi-King. His eldest son, in 1553, married Lady Jane Gray. He was quite active during the Reformation and Dissolution (surrounded by the associates of "Robert K. of W. & L." during Robert's great acquisition of chantry, etc. property). So, what did he have to do with Sherborne for the "missal" to come into that family?
WEBB. Again, interesting. Can other of our "aliases" be bastard lines?
The William Webb (without alias K.) [d. 1523] had a daughter, Cecily, who married Thomas White of Poole. This reminds me of Ambrose K's wife, Katherine, of Christchurch. There is an abstract of Katherine's in the Callaway Journal (1979)
PCC 13 Nevell Will of Mrs. Katherine Kellewaye of Christchurch,
Tweynham, Hants, widow.
Dated 18 Aug 1592; Pr. 14 Sep 1592.
Exor. son, William White
Supervisors Friends, Edward Passion, gent. & Robert Odberr
Witnesses William Beconsawe, William Moondaye, Martyn Barber
-to the poor of Christchurch L 10
Legatees
-daughter, Katherine Moondye - furniture, plate, linen
-servants, Robert Cooke; Robert Fyenashe; Richard Lawrence; John Facey
-William Lowell owes me L 5 which I will my son-in-law, William Moonday
-to Anne Seye and Mary Moonday, a feather bed with furniture each
-to Alice Beconsawe & Katherine her daughter, each a pair of sheets
-to my daughter Ann Passion, a casting bottle of silver
-to Edward Woodes wife, & to Katherine Woode her daughter
-Residue to my son, William White, Esq.
No C/K's mentioned in Katherine's will, which more or less confirms she had no children by Ambrose K., I guess.
I also visited the Berry Pomeroy website. Nice ruins. We do not find any C/K's in the Berry Pomeroy parish register, but there are some Kellows in the mid to late 1600's. Could some of our family have shortened the name?
Piper has been gallivanting around on the continent. Sounded like a great trip. It won't be long until packing time here - for the great safari to England.
From:
Sherrill Williams
Sent: Jul 25, 2001
Subject: Sherborne Missal
Do you think we will ever know the true story of the origin of the "missal"?
Being curious about the ancestry of the 12th Duke of Northumberland, I did a bit of research.
His eldest son, in 1553, married Lady Jane Gray. He was quite active during the Reformation and Dissolution (surrounded by the associates of "Robert K. of W. & L." during Robert's great cquisition of chantry, etc. property). So, what did he have to do with Sherborne for the "missal" to come into that family?
This is why it is absolutely essential to find the relationship between William 'of Sherbourne' [perhaps William missal] and Robert [the second] of the Wards and Liveries. You may recall that from rootsweb [14706] that in 1548 Robert W&L appoached the Duke of Somerset "on matters relating to Bristol and to Lady Jane Grey's visit to the city".
This was the same year that he was appointed to control the dispersal of the chantries wealth. You will know that Lady Jane Grey became known as the nine days' queen of England. and was the great-granddaughter of Henry V11. She was 16 when she married Lord Guildford Dudley. You will know her subsequent fate, so pausing there, let's line up a few (? fanciful) facts:
1. William 'of Sherbourne' had a valuable missal (in fact two) The incomplete one was left to the church, and the presumptive more valuable one went to son William.
2. Robert W&L was associated with Lady Jane Grey who married into the Northumberlands
3. The Northumberlands aquired a valuable missal (now worth six million quid) and have held it for centuries.
WEBB. Again, interesting. Can other of our "aliases" be bastard lines? A good possibility.
I also visited the Berry Pomeroy website. Nice ruins. We do not find any C/K's in the Berry Pomeroy parish register, but there are some Kellows in the mid to late 1600's. Could some of our family have shortened the name?(very likely)
Piper has been galavanting around on the continent. Sounded like a great trip.
(Passed several time the new TGV track Paris Marseilles. It would have been a fabulous trip (Bill) Piper)
It won't be long until packing time here - for the great safari to England.
From: Warwick
Kellaway
Sent: Jul 25, 2001
Subject: Cheriton Fitzpaine
Bill and others
I too have now been to Berry Pomeroy. A nice little article, with good graphics. There was no mention of Giles, but perhaps he only conveyed the property between the two families. I had assumed his involvement related to the Monastery/Chantry Dissolutions at the time. Did someone say he was a major property speculator?
As regards Cheriton Fitzpaine, it may have been larger 500 years ago, but probably was only a manor and village, as Rockborne was. I presume it is the present Hampshire Cheriton, which is close to Tichborne, and Winchester? My presumption would be that John acquired the property by marriage, and it must have been of considerable value, with the residents part of the property. Actually there is not a lot of evidence of family members holding larger estates - commonly it was only a messuage or two. It does seem that Ambrose left no descendants.
I have now contacted my cousin Alfred Pauley, thank you Bill. He is descended from my GGgrandfather JMFK's sister Sarah. One of only two UK "close" relatives discovered so far.
As he is interested in Military History, I was also able to tell him about his sister's other brother Joseph Kellaway and the VC at the Crimea.
You were fortunate to have the opportunity to travel by TGV - must have been quite an experience! A great trip. We managed lunch in Aix en Provence during our 4 days "tour de France" some years ago (what we saw was great), before chugging up from the Riviera via Avignon to the Loire Valley chateaux, (and a nocturnal visit to Caillouet), in our Renault 5 - it was a little bit slower.
I await evidence on the Missal. It could be a good story, if we can get it. If the Northumberlands were Dudleys, their power extended through to Elizabeth - Robert was I think one of her favourites. Northumberland itself is some distance from Dorset, so I would assume the only interest would be in the possession of the Missal.
Have had a quick look at Rootsweb, but had the usual problems with making the right contacts, and being stuffed with offers to get my money. My impression was that, while there seems to be a lot available generally, the information on our family is rather limited - perhaps a bit woolly? Could not make out a source, but suspect the LDS?
As for the Webbs, if there is a case for bastardy, that might also explain some of the other aliases we have. It may not have been such a disgrace in those times, as it was later. Presumably, if a father with standing, and/or means, had concern for the mother and offspring, the child could be brought up much as a younger member of the family.
It happened with the Royal Family, and no doubt with many others. Being before Parish Records, the recording of the birth/christenings may be a problem, and we will probably never be sure which of the names was the father's, unless there is a will or some other reference.
Kellows/Callows have always been a concern. Personally I have them in the "do not want to know" basket. The name could derive from the OE "calo" meaning "the bald", it could be some corruption of our name, or something totally different altogether. I have not yet fully understood the relevance between Callow, Kellow or Kellowe, which could today be pronounced "Kello", and the Callowe, Kellowe and Kellawes, where the last syllable was "-way". It seems to me that the "-way" may have been of Franco/Norman origin, and got muddied later, both in spelling and pronunciation?
A few comments cobbled together.
From:
Sherrill Williams
Sent: Jul 25, 2001
Subject: Court of Requests, Martin Kelwaye
I am reading some documents from Court of Requests - REQ2/255/1-88 which include 8 or 9 items. This is a case brought by John Parker against Martin Kelwaye. The "Answers" of Martin Kelwaye to the Bill of Complaint, dated 30 November 10 Elizabeth [1567, I believe], contains some hopefully enlightening information. The dispute is over some "lande tenement and herediments" "commonly called and known by the name and names of Deilford als. Doleforde" - about 14 acres [this appears to say] in countie of Dorset - "of which landes, tenements and herediments one Robert Keyleway gentleman, deceased was seised in his demesne." It seems that Robert K. acquired rights to this property by way of a "fine" during the 5th year of the reign of Edward VI (brother of our "quene," Elizabeth).....from Edward Faunteleroy & Charles Bailis(?)...for the lives of Robert K. & Johanne his wife.
After the deaths of Robert & Johanne K., the rights were to go to Martin K., son of Robert & Johanne, and the male heirs of his body lawfully begotten - and in the case of the death of Martin K. without male heirs of his body, then to go to John Keylwaye, "one other son" of Robert K. and wife Johanne..............."And they, Robert & Johanne, being so seised, about viij (8) years last past the said Robert K. 'dyed' [c1559/60] and the said Johanne him outlived and held her possession unto the same premises.in her demesne as of freehold for terme of her life by right of survivor." And afterwards "the said Johanne did surrender all her estate and interest in the premises to the defendant" [Martin] - and goes on and on about Martin's rights to this property.
I cannot find anything on any of my maps that looks like "Deilford" or "Dolford" so it must be a small area of some manor in Dorset. This item does tell us that Robert & Johanne [Marshall] K. had the two sons, Martin and John (but nothing more is said about John, since Martin is still living); and this does give us a death year for Robert K. - c1559/60 - and that Johanne [Joanne] survived him. Just one more little "fact" (this is a 'sworn' statement) in our search for dates to go with these people. This would indicate that "this" Robert (with wife Joane) is not the "Robert of the W. & L." I think one of the visitation pedigrees from a history of Dorset credited "this" Robert with some of "Robert of W & L" 's land acquisitions - which would be an erroneous conclusion.
From: Warwick Kellaway
Sent: Jul 26, 2001
Subject: Court of Requests, Martin Kelwaye
Sherrill
You would be correct that this is the elder Robert, not the W&L. I have him as marrying Joan Marshall, and having sons John and Martin. John married Jane Garwen, with son Henry and grandson John. Martin married Dorothy Frampton, but had no family - hence the will, and eventual dispute over Lillington. (Henry and his son arguably should have inherited it, as Martin was the elder brother.)
I had thought Robert was the eldest grandson of William of Sherborne and, it seems from an IQPM, he probably died in 1558. My problem with him is that, from his parents and offspring, I would have expected his birth around 1460, which clearly it would not be.
Even 1470 looks most unlikely, and he would have to stretch to 1475, which would still make him a very old man by 1558. It would also be unusual for his wife to live so long, unless she was a second spouse. Maybe therefore there is a third Robert hiding in the woodwork somewhere? Could this Robert have been the son of a Robert, grandson of Thomas, and great grandson of William? I suspect Deilford/Doleford may be Dulford in east Devon, rather than Dorset today, but very close to Cullompton, and some other places of family interest. Unless we can find another in Dorset. The property may have been involved in the Chantry Dissolutions, although it is not mentioned.
Have had an interesting comment from a Robert Fripp in Canada, who picked up my Henry II booboo, and calls King John's first wife Isabelle of Angouleme. She was beseiged in the "Angevin's treasure castle of Chinon" at some stage. Angouleme is in the heart of France, and I see little connection with her father the Earl of Gloucester, unless he had properties there or, as a wild guess, could her mother, our Hawisa, have come from Angouleme? King John did inherit lands in central France, but managed to lose them.
I will have to check further. He has a few other comments that mystify me also.
(He is doing "a version of the "memoirs" of Eleanor of Aquitaine"). The connection was a Jean of Preaux, who he fed into a search engine, and came up with "my" site? He said I identified him in 1193, but actually I have never heard of Mr Preaux. Anyone any clues? Bill, was Jean somewhere in your reports?
From:
Sherrill Williams
Sent: Jul 26, 2001
Subject: Somerset Incumbents, Tho. Kayleway
You all probably have this already, but in case not from SOMERSET INCUMBENTS
(From the Hugo MSS. 30,279-80 in the British Museum), edited by Frederick William Weaver, M.A.; Bristol, privately printed (1889).
The following is for SUTTON BINGHAM in the Archdeaconry of Wells - and the data is in columnar form.
The columns are headed
(1) Date of Institution
(2) Incumbent
(3) How Vacated
(4) Patron
(5) Reference to Bishop's Register.
Here are the items of interest
(1) 1412, Dec. 18
(2) Joh. Sheyle (footnote "Formerly V. of Dounameney (Wigorn.)
(3) per mut c. T. G. [death of Thomas Gerveys, previous
incumbent?.....SUW]
(4) Tho. Kayleway, arm.
(5) Bub, 63
(1) 1417, Feb. 4
(2) Joh. Richard
(3) per mort. J. S. [death of Joh. Sheyle]
(4) Tho. Kayleway, arm.
(5) Bub, 142
(1) 1500, Oct. 16
(2) Hen. Fayrman
(3) per res. J. Y. [resignation of Joh. Yate?]
(4) Will. Calway, arm.
(5) King, 63
(1) 1505, July (29
(2) Will. Tanner
(3) per res. H. F. [resignation of Hen Fayrman]
(4) Will. Kaylwaye, mil.
(5) Hadr., 16
(1) 1541, Nov. 5
(2) Joh. Stone
(3) per mort. W. T. [death of Will Tanner]
(4) Hamellus Williams, a. c. per Joh. Kaleway, de Rockbourne, Hants, mil.
(5) Knight, 5
In 1561 and following, various members of the Sydenham family became the patrons. Do we assume that Sutton Bingham was at some point in time the property of the Bingham family?
The "patrons" listed between Tho. Kayleway (1417) and Will Calway (1500) were Rog. Wyke - 1422, 1426, 1429, 1433, 1437, 1448, 1453, 1467 and Joh.
Devyoke - 1478.
At "Wookey" in the Archdeaconry of Wells
(1) 1572, Feb. 17
(2) Joh. Kelway
(3) [blank]
(4) Phil. Bysse, S.T.B., subdec.
(5) Bark, 37
Joh. Kelway was replaced 1592, Feb. 13 by Ric. Poughnell "per mort. J. K.;" the patron was Jac. Bisse, A.M (Ref. Still, 1).
For whatever light this may shine upon our problem!
From: Bill Piper
Sent: Jul 26, 2001
Subject: Eliz Kelway, St George's Chapel, Windsor Castle
Greetings C/K researchers,
A telephone conversation with Mrs Letty Jones at the information office at St George's Chapel, Windsor Castle, produced some helpful information and some photocopies by next day's post.
There was a memorial stone at St George's Chapel. It was in the Dean's Cloister. It is now non-existent Mrs Jones thinks that is not because it was removed but because it is now indecipherable.
The inscription read
Eliz Kelway. Obiit 12 Novembris, A.D. 1737
According to The Monuments of St George's Chapel, the burial fees were £4 19s 4d. "An Elizabeth K was baptised 16 February 1676 (P.R. p.11) and this inscription may well record her death. Her mother, Elizabeth K., the wife of Thomas, was buried on (23 March, 1720/1 (P.R. p.215)" From the printed copy of the St George's Chapel register ("P.R.") there are these entries, which you probably already have Thomas Kelway min Can [minor canon] of this Church was buried in Woolen octob 12 1718 [sic] Elizabeth Kelway, ye Wife of Tho Kelway Min Canon of this place was buried March (23 1720/1 Jasper Kelway Clerk of this place was buried in woolen ye 6th of octob 1717From The Vicars or Minor Canons of St George's Chapel "Thomas Kellaway (or Kelway) 1672-1718. Appointed and sworn 9 April 1672 in succession to Holland.
[Gosh, 46 years in the post!] Formerly a Lay Clerk [i.e. a chorister]. He had a large family and two of his sons were Choristers in St George's Chapel. Thomas Kelway, Organist of Chichester Cathedral 1726, was his grandson. [See http//members.tripod.co.uk/dreycott/musical.htm] He was Dean's Curate, and signed many entries in the marriage register of the Chapel. Buried at St George's Chapel 12 October 1718. Elizabeth his widow, was buried (23 March 1721. Will dated 9 October 1718. Probate granted by Maurice Vaughan (Canon) L.T. for George Lord Willoughby de Broke (Dean) 6 November 1718 [xiii.B.2.p.264]"
So, I need to get access to the register and see how many of Thomas' family I can find. Possibly at the SoG.
Sherrill, where do I look for the Will? PRO?
My Winchester page shows (suggests?), from Chichester Cathedral registers, that the father of Thomas and Joseph (the famous Chichester Two) was Mr Thomas Kelway. His marriages and burial are shown. Such Thomas must be sought as the son of the Thomas above.
Was he born at Windsor? Does anyone already have this data? Watch this space.
It wasn't near an altar, and it wasn't in "Queen's Chapel".
However, I suspect that it's the best we're going to get. Unless someone else....
From Sherrill (26 July)
Thanks much for the great detective work. I will check to see if we have further on this family. Also, where a will might be found.
....... Bruce, we have competition. Keep at that 'Sherborne Missal.’
From:
Warwick Kellaway
Sent: Jul 27, 2001
Subject: Eliz Kelway, St George's Chapel, Windsor Castle
Presumably too many feet over too much time.
I wonder that, as Elizabeth appears to be Thomas's daughter, where is Thomas himself? He presumably had more status. Presumably Elizabeth was in service, or at least lived at Windsor - perhaps at the Castle.
You should have my previous listings of the BDM at St Georges Chapel. The earliest entry I had was Jasper c in 1668, followed by John, the son of Mr Thos, in 1674. I had nothing earlier, and would assume he had come to Windsor from other parts. If he had "a large family", only three (John, Elizabeth and George), perhaps four (Jasper?), appear in the register, suggesting that there were several born prior to 1668. This would suggest a birth date for him of about 1630-5.
The elder Jasper had a daughter Henrietta-Maria buried in 1680, and a son George buried in 1690, so we can assume he was Thomas's brother. Does this mean their parents had lived nearby? The father's name might have been Thomas or Jasper, perhaps John, and he could have been born c 1600-10.
I cannot place them anywhere at this stage, but notice the early spellings in the St Georges Chapel Register, (written in the apparently immaculate hand of Thomas), are clearly Kellaway, later they vary to Kelway and Kellway. The Kellaway spelling in the early to mid 1600s was most apparent in Dorset. My thought therefore is that that is where we could look first.
The only assistance I can offer is that Nicholas Kellaway of Charminster, who died in 1594, left several sons including a Thomas, while another Thomas (possibly his grandson) and Susan Kelway of Piddlehinton produced a son Thomas in 1634 (which could fit). There is no mention of a Jasper however, while Thomas is hardly an unusual name.
It makes sense that Thomas did father the Chichester Two.
It is good to see the Sutton Bingham references. Joane Bingham married Thomas Kayleway somewhere about 1410, and she was the heiress of Thomas and Marian Bingham de Sutton. Sutton Bingham therefore must have been their home.
I note the reference to "arm.", presumably short for armiger. William Calway arm., one month before his knighthood in 1500, became William Kayleway mil. in 1505. Joh Kaleway de Rockbourne mil. in 1541, is of course Sir John.
From: Bruce
Callaway
Sent: Jul 27, 2001
Subject: Hawise de Courtenay
A possible connection may have been one Hawise de Courtenay who died before 1269.
From 1230 on she is alleged to have had multiple spouses! Her Father was Robert de Courtney who died 1242 at Iwerne, Dorset. Her Mother was Hawise de Curcy who was apparently married at one time to Pierre de Preaux.
This is probably all a waste of time therefore I am not at the moment placing it into the general dialogue, but who knows? On our recent visit to France we visited the lovely Angevin castle of Chinon, and yes Isabelle of Angouleme was the second wife of King Richard 1's younger brother, King John of England. They were married in 1200 after King John's first marriage to Isabelle de Clare was annulled. Their son of course was Henry111, but you would know all this.
From: Bill Piper
Sent: Jul 27, 2001
Subject: Windsor & Chichester ....But what
sort of service?
I doubt that a servant girl got a memorial stone in the Dean's Cloister, nor paid burial fees of nearly five pounds. I really think that the family had some status, if not at royal level, at least at ecclesiastical level. Notice how Elizabeth's brother is called Mr Thomas Kelway in the Chichester Cathedral register.
From: Warwick Kellaway
Sent: Jul 28, 2001
Subject: Eliz Kelway, St George's Chapel, Windsor Castle
I do bow to your comment that Elizabeth would have had a higher status. I had meant in service at Windsor Castle, which could mean a somewhat higher position. But she would most likely be living in the family home nearby. Unmarried, there must have been adequate resources to maintain her, even if she presumably did not inherit the property.
From this aspect she could have been respected for musical talents or some continued association with the Chapel. But did Thomas also have a slab?
The use of the Mr does raise the level of importance. It seems to imply the status of a country gentleman, with some education. There is no doubt that the elder Thomas was well educated, as would be his sons. Rectors, Deans and clergymen generally of the new Protestantism, were the well educated members of society, and held considerable respect. (Cary, John Wesley was an example of a top university scholar). The situation extended from the old Catholic monks and priesthood. The difference being that the priests/ministers now lived lives more closely related to their communities, and they had families.
I found a few Mr in Dorset in the 1700s, mainly with the Piddlehinton family. I sense also that they were men of property, and of family background rather than wealthy merchants of businessmen. For this reason I have tended to see them as the successors to the pedigreed people of the 1500s, when looking for connections.
The title yoeman was also used quite often, and into the 1800s. My interpretation would be a step lower on the social scale, but a farmer of substantial means.
From: Bruce
Callaway
Sent: Jul 28, 2001
Subject: Eliz Kelway, St George's Chapel, Windsor Castle
As an aside on this inscription, I am reminded by a plaintive plea once seen on the internet"
My ancestors were buried in Woolen. Can anyone please tell me where woolen is?"! Lest any of our readers be also puzzled, they can be referred to the burial Act of the 17th century at http//www.feltwellnorfolk.freeserve.co.uk/written/wollen_burial.htm
Whilst we are on the subject of English common law, it is of interest that at least two of the Keilway Reports (KEIL.1496-1531 [ER72 Citations for the English Nominate Reports in the Law Library U.K.] are still law quoted in most countries including the U.S.....
From 12 Hen.V11, Keilway 36 "Where my beasts, of their own wrong, without my will or knowledge, break another close, I shall be punished, for I am the trespasser with my beasts"
(Wyoming is one state which specifically legislated out this piece of common law)
Sorry if the above is non-contributory, and is relegated to 'to-days bit of useless information'
From: Sherrill
Williams
Sent: Aug 8, 2001
Subject: Court of Request, Francis Kellaway, golde
chaine
I have just read another Court of Request document and learned that our "cousin" Ambrose Button was also imprisoned in the Fleet. Not sure of his offense; possibly debt. Bond was posted by Francis Ashpoole, with Francis Kellaway as security. Francis K. put up his "golde chaine" which he usually wore - worth fifty pounds -to secure the bond of forty pounds. Button was to sell the gold chain, which he supposedly did, for the fifty pds. and return the "overplus" to Francis K. This was the cause for the suit. Francis K. referred to Ambrose Button as his "kinsman." We know that from the visitations. So now, not only have we lost our "missal" but also our "gold chain."
I am attaching a file - C/K's in Dorset (separate page). I prepared this to help us to more easily track the C/K's while working in the Dorset Record office. Perhaps you all will find it of some interest, also. The file has explanatory information. Don't fear the attachment. I am running Windows Millenium, so am not affected by Code Red.
From:
Warwick Kellaway
Sent: Aug 9, 2001
Subject: Kelway St George Windsor Castle
I do not know whether you have moved any further on the bleeding slab and its connections, but I have now heard from Brian Kelway Willoughby in Cheltenham. As we know he has supplied a lot of very good information, and in his letter he has included a two page history of his Kelway family. In it he says Two generations of clerical Kelways have served the Royal Family in the Chapel of St George at Windsor Castle in Berkshire, and were buried there. Thomas Kelway was elected Minor Canon in 1672 and became Dean's Curate he and his wife seem to have been fairly turbulent characters, judging by the records of the Chapter. Several of their sons became choristers of the Chapel. Their grandsons, another Thomas Kelway and his younger brother Joseph, were both celebrated musicians. The younger Thomas, who was born in 1695, was the organist at Chichester Cathedral in Sussex for 23 years and was buried there in 1744. Joseph was apparently a brilliant harpsicordist - among his pupils were Queen Charlotte (wife of George III) and Charles Wesley.
From: Bruce
Callaway
Sent: Aug 11, 2001
Subject: Sherborne Missal
Regarding the Sherborne missal I have been thus far unable to contact Janet Backhouse or read her book, however a couple of important facts have emerged which convinces me more and more that it is THE missal, and therefore not to be missed by you'all heading off to the U.K. and hopefully visiting the London Library. It is exciting all sorts of people, now quoted as worth £15 million.
Google now has about 250 references to it (much duplication). The latest relevant facts mixed with what we know:
1.William lived from 1400 until 1469 in Sherborne
2. The Arms of Henry V as Prince of Wales appear in the missal therefore some authors place the production date of the missal as 1396-1407
3. Only 30 years after it was finished the townspeople of Sherborne (numbering in total possibly less than 500 persons) had their dispute over ecclesiastical authority. In that year (1437) there was a quarrel between the abbot and the townsmen about the right to have a font in All Hallows, which was an Almshouse attached to Sherborne Abbey. John Kaleway (presumed brother of William) was involved.
4.Fire destroyed the Almshouse and part of the Abbey.
5. The Abbey, with some re-building became the Parish Church of Sherborne
6. William leaves a new missal with funds for its illumination and binding to the Parish Church together with considerable gifts to the Vicar et.al
7. William leaves (? THE Sherbourne missal) to his son William.
8. The Sherborne missal is believed to have been removed to Europe in the late 15th or early 16th century to resurface in France in 1703
9. In 1800 it was aquired by the 2nd Duke of Northumberland
to be continued.........